California public worker pension changes unveiled

[Newsjock]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

Gov. Jerry Brown, speaking in Los Angeles, announced a compromise with Democratic legislative leaders on changes to pension benefits for new public employees Tuesday, an agreement that includes legislation to cap pensions, curb pension spiking, increase to 50 percent the amount employees contribute to their retirement benefits and increase the retirement age.

... And while Brown wanted to raise the retirement age for most new employees from 55 to 67, lawmakers instead agreed to increase the age that an employee may receive full benefits to 60 years of age - though in order to get the maximum amount of benefits, employees would have to work until age 67.

Public employee unions, as expected, expressed anger at the proposed changes. Dave Low, chairman of a coalition that represents 1.5 million public employees and retirees, said the proposal will hurt "all Californians" by making it harder to attract and keep teachers, police officers and firefighters at work .

"We are outraged that a Democratic governor and Democratic Legislature are taking a wrecking ball to retirement security for teachers, firefighters, school employees, and police officers. While we support common-sense changes to end spiking and abuse of the system, this package is unfair and wrong," said Low. "This is the largest rollback in providing a secure retirement to teachers, firefighters, and police officers in California history, reducing benefits to pre-Reagan era benefits. ... Public workers have done more than their fair share during the past several years of lean budgets, taking pay cuts, furloughs, and paying more for health care. This proposal hurts hundreds of thousands of low- and middle-class workers who negotiated in good faith and now will be hit with more cuts and takeaways, getting nothing in return."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/California-public-worker-pension-changes-unveiled-3821554.php

[AngryAmish]

1. Public workers stabbed in the back again

[glacierbay]

2. Well, you gets what you votes for.

Just another stabbing in the back to the public employees unions.

[antiquie]

3. Thank goodness!

Where would you get the money to fulfill obligations under the current plan? No one I know wants the changes, but there is reality.

[glacierbay]

4. I don't have the answer

but stabbing the ones that protect us in the back is not the way to go, that is a fact.

[antiquie]

7. Drivel

doesn't help when everyone is searching for solutions.
stabbing in the back, really?

[glacierbay]

8. Your opinion

your entitled to it, I just have a different opinion than yours.
And yes, really.

[antiquie]

10. Jerry worse than Arnie?

"Schwarzenegger slashed $256 million from a child care program
for families moving off welfare and $133 million from mental health
services for special education students, among other reductions
from the $87.5 billion budget."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4570384

[SunSeeker]

13. No one is saying that. But Jerry did cave on this one.

He had other options. He didn't need to raise the retirement age. He could have just cut out the fraud and abuse, like the pension spiking. But instead, he went after basic benefits. Very disappointing.

[antiquie]

17. Yes it is very disappointing.

Disappointing is a word I use a lot these days.

[glacierbay]

21. I never said that Jerry was worse than Arnie

so now were done when you accuse me of something I didn't even allude to.
Good Bye and have a great day.

[antiquie]

22. It was a question

meant to evoke thought.
Not meant as an accusation, so sorry.

[glacierbay]

25. My apologies

I failed to see the question mark at the end of your sentence.

No, and hell no he's not worse, Arnie is/was an anti union, cheating spouse who drove CA deeper into the ground.

[SunSeeker]

9. CalPERS had surplus before the 2008 crash. How about taking it out of the hide of the banksters?

They should go after the MoFos that crashed the 401Ks and CA public pensions (CalPERS) to recoup the losses. The crimes of the banksters should not be paid by public employees. CalPERS will eventually be in good shape again. A pension fund's funded status - whether a liability or surplus - is constantly changing, depending on current economic circumstances. It is a snapshot in time that can change dramatically over a fairly short period of time due to the health of the overall economy.

http://www.calpersresponds.com/issues.php/stanford-pension-study


The other issue is healthcare costs. If we had single payer in California, that issue would be solved. But the three craven sell-out Dems who voted against single payer in CA back in January prevented that from happening.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101440504
http://californiaonecare.org/sb-810-killed-on-the-california-senate-floor

[antiquie]

14. Completely agree

and surviving my fifth year without insurance (or health or dental care).

[woo me with science]

5. Welcome to neoAmerica.

It is not a recovery. It is a restructuring.

[SunSeeker]

6. Race to the bottom. Instead of making sure ALL workers have pensions.

Unfortunately, the right wing propaganda machine has turned the public, even in a blue state like California, against public worker pensions (the comments to the SF Gate article are depressing).

The war on pensions reminds me of an old Soviet joke where a peasant says, "My neighbor has a cow and I have none, I want his cow to die."

[shanti]

11. if you think the comments on SF Gate are depressing

don't bother looking at the Sacramento Bee comments - they're much worse. the wingnut trolls have taken over the Bee comment section

[SunSeeker]

12. Yes. And the SacBee editorial board has abandoned public workers.

I wish I could find me some of that fabled left-wing liberal media. We ain't got it here in Cali.

[Taverner]

15. I may be the odd man out here...

And don't think that I don't have a dog in this race - my wife is an educator and contributing to CALPERS.

However, something has to be done about the budget. It's KILLING us here.

I would like to see the banks, the rich, corporations and BigAg take a bigger hit than they are taking, and I would like to see Prop 13 reversed and new homeowners grandfathered in.

BUT considering the shit Arnie left us, we need to do something. And Gov Brown is doing this for a reason - he knows the cuts will HAVE to take place, so better he does the cutting, leaving pensioners more than they would have been left with should someone else make the cuts.

[antiquie]

18. Ooh Prop 13

If we got rid of all the commercial property that is under Prop 13 (somehow a building can be incorporated and resold instead of the property), we could fix a lot of education problems.

[SunSeeker]

20. +10000000000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Taverner]

24. Yes we can

[SoapBox]

16. I'm all about unions...but

"Public employee unions, as expected, expressed anger at the proposed changes."

I do not know all details of how stuff like this is working but...you folks have got to make sure you are coming
to the table with real solutions and honest answers as well.

It is a VERY, VERY different world every place, than it used to be.

I am with a non-union (and rabidly non-union...except for one group) company...I am lucky in that I have lots of seniority (doesn't get you that much but it helps) and if you fly below the radar, you do ok. On pay days, I'm shocked at what I make for the little that I work (I chose to work low hours currently...care giving for Mom!). If I worked a lot, I could make "very good" money.

When it comes to the retirement/pension stuff...we've had a 401K plan for years...the company does a match (I think it's around 3 or 4 % match max) but they do that deduction of SS from your "pension" monies that they contribute, when you finally retire. Bottom line, we are on our own to save as much as possible.

My situation is SO much better than millions...but...with SOME of the union groups, I just feel that they are not as real and serious as they need to be.

...oh boy...I feel the flames coming on.

p.s...Jerry worse than Terminator guy? NO way...what a fucker he was.

p.s.s...and making it harder to attract and keep teachers???? Hell, our schools, property and education system is being systematically carved up and sold off to private profitters...THAT is what needs to be worried about.

[SunSeeker]

19. How can you be "all about unions" when you don't even work in an union shop?

I'm glad you're happy with the pay you get for the "little" work you do. And yes, it is a very different world these days, because we have let it be, falling for the RW propaganda.

Instead of talking in generalities about "SOME of the union groups," how about talking specifics about why the CA public employee unions are not "as real and serious as they should be"? What FACTS do you have to back that up?

CA state employee unions have for years foregone pay raises to protect their pension and healthcare benefits--even as those benefits too have eroded. Now, you think to save schools we need to shaft teachers. Why not tax the rich and end Prop. 13 tax give-aways to the rich and businesses? How about going after the banksters for their fraud that caused CalPERS to go into the red? The banksters should make CalPERS whole, not public employees.

[olddad56]

23. a retired Ca. State empoyee's perspective.

I worked my entire IT career in Ca. State Government. These changes are not a good thing for the state employees, or the taxpayers of CA.

You start out with the state and if you have something on the ball, you reach a point where you have some expertise in what you do, and you have some years that count towards your pension. If you are good at what you do, you have a choice of leaving state government to do the same thing in private industry for higher pay and lower benefits, or you can work your career with the government for a pension and better benefits.

Under these proposed rules, your incentive to remain in state government, especially if you are good at what you do, is drastically diminished. Naturally the state government will experience a brain drain. Once that happens, the state will begin outsourcing the technical work to corporate 'consulting firms'. The corporate firms will hire workers from India and China to do the work, pay them less, but the state will be paying out the ass for inferior work. It wasn't working out for the state, and taxpayers, the quality of the work was sliding, it wasn't working out well for the foreign workers, but it was working out well for the corporations. Sort of a Bain Capital approach to wiping out US jobs. The bureaucracies will just become more and more bogged down with mediocre employees and weaker services.

I think Jerry Brown is getting a bit senile. I can tell because he is starting to think like a republican.