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demmiblue

(36,833 posts)
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 07:31 AM Nov 2018

Revealed: Donald Trump's plan to build housing and luxury villas on Ayrshire farmland

Source: The Scotsman

The firm, owned by US president Donald Trump, is urging officials to greenlight the major development across a vast tract of farmland in the remote corner of South Ayrshire.

Neither the Trump Organisation nor Trump Turnberry have made public the controversial plans, but Trump’s second son, Eric, has been personally overseeing the project for the past ten months.

Ralph Porciani, general manager of Trump Turnberry, told Scotland on Sunday the Trump Organisation was “excited” by the plans to develop the land, which he said was used only for “the odd bit of cattle grazing.”

Trump has previously boasted of having the right to build “at least a thousand houses” at Turnberry, and while Porciani expressed hope the venture would be “welcomed,” the 72-year-old may yet become embroiled in another battle with authorities in his mother’s homeland.

Read more: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/revealed-donald-trump-s-plan-to-build-housing-and-luxury-villas-on-ayrshire-farmland-1-4827722

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Revealed: Donald Trump's plan to build housing and luxury villas on Ayrshire farmland (Original Post) demmiblue Nov 2018 OP
Ruining the world one country at a time. Vinca Nov 2018 #1
Last I read, Scarsdale Nov 2018 #2
A place to write off losses Harker Nov 2018 #5
Yes, I'd bet the Russians and Saudis will pay big bucks (or pounds) for those houses. JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2018 #7
Very bad for Turnberry. Harker Nov 2018 #9
I know somebody who works in planning in the Scottish Highlands, Denzil_DC Nov 2018 #8
Probably selling the housing with a caveat that buyers join the golf club, Totally Tunsie Nov 2018 #10
roads built to bring in the builders, retail stores & servant housing will destroy the coastline Sunlei Nov 2018 #3
Its the cheetoz cartel.. Maxheader Nov 2018 #4
More condos to launder more dirty Russkie cash. paleotn Nov 2018 #6
Scottish word 'betrump'. According to Scots, to betrump is to deceive or elude. keithbvadu2 Nov 2018 #11
a planner speaks Borderer Nov 2018 #12
Thank you for your post. And welcome to DU! DesertRat Nov 2018 #13
what a great contribution to the discussion! Grasswire2 Nov 2018 #14
Welcome and thank you! Kali Nov 2018 #15
I knew that there was controversy about the golf course in Scotland, TexasTowelie Nov 2018 #16
Thank you nt flying rabbit Nov 2018 #18
Thanks so much for the information! Rhiannon12866 Nov 2018 #19
Thank you for your perspective. demmiblue Nov 2018 #20
Great First Post ProfessorGAC Nov 2018 #21
Holy shit. THAT is how you do a first post. blugbox Nov 2018 #22
Please keep us updated on any further developments. Haggis for Breakfast Nov 2018 #17
Thanks all for welcome, etc. Borderer Nov 2018 #23

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
2. Last I read,
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:15 AM
Nov 2018

Turnberry is a losing proposition. It has not turned a profit for a couple of years, so why build houses there? Maybe this is something to keep Eeerie Eric busy, and out of the US media? I hope the Scottish people reject this orange turd's plans.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,336 posts)
7. Yes, I'd bet the Russians and Saudis will pay big bucks (or pounds) for those houses.
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 10:32 AM
Nov 2018

Far more than they're worth.

Good for Trump, good for oligarchs and princes, bad for Turnberry.

Harker

(14,007 posts)
9. Very bad for Turnberry.
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 10:39 AM
Nov 2018

It might take decades, or even centuries, to regain what's already been lost.

Nature wins in the end, though. I take comfort in that.

Denzil_DC

(7,227 posts)
8. I know somebody who works in planning in the Scottish Highlands,
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 10:37 AM
Nov 2018

where Trump has his other Scottish course, the controversial Trump International Links at Balmedie. Part of the package there was a housing development, and my pal said there was no way the course development could pay without it (it's also been a loss-maker since it was built). TrumpCo finally submitted plans for 500 houses there back in September, which is also meeting widespread opposition: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/16/scotland-thousands-object-to-trump-housing-estate-plans

If you drive down the Ayrshire coast past Turnberry, it's already like somebody transplanted a ticky-tacky housing development from suburbia, all oversized blocks with white harling and pink pantile, and totally incongruous in the links setting:

Totally Tunsie

(10,885 posts)
10. Probably selling the housing with a caveat that buyers join the golf club,
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 02:22 PM
Nov 2018

so one hand washes the other: "luxury" home at/on the golf course, guaranteed member income for the club.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
3. roads built to bring in the builders, retail stores & servant housing will destroy the coastline
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:25 AM
Nov 2018

forever.

Maxheader

(4,371 posts)
4. Its the cheetoz cartel..
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:30 AM
Nov 2018

A group of questionable people using the presidency to increase their
wealth..with the help of the president..

Borderer

(50 posts)
12. a planner speaks
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:10 PM
Nov 2018

Last edited Mon Nov 12, 2018, 10:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Hello folks. Long-time reader but new member.

I am a planner in Scotland, and at the time Trump's Balmedie Boondoggle was the talk of the profession for months. He only obtained planning permission for it in incredibly controversial circumstances and IMHO should not bank on pulling off the same con twice.

The Balmedie proposal involved the utter destruction of a nationally important wildlife habitat (and, from personal knowledge, a spectacularly beautiful section of the Aberdeenshire coast) in order to build a golf resort for millionaires. In support of their application the Trump Organisation advanced two arguments, which I paraphrase in terms that may seem familiar:

1. There will be SO MANY jobs. I will be the BEST jobs golf course developer EVER. There will be so many jobs that you will GET TIRED of all the jobs, and they will be the BEST JOBS. Just look at my track record! Also, Aberdeen's airport taxi drivers will be able to retire on all the tips they get!
2. Notwithstanding what everyone with any knowledge whatsoever of the subject says, the environment of the site is nothing special. Artificially imported soil and dyed greens will be a much nicer habitat for HIGH CLASS wildlife than the largest dune complex in Scotland because I say so and I HAVE THE BEST BRAIN. Also, concern for the environment is a HOAX, folks. Besides, I Donald J. Trump give you my PERSONAL WORD I am prepared to publicly commit to trying to sound convincing whilst agreeing to absolutely anything that might be asked of me to mitigate against the environmental damage (until such time as you grant me planning permission).

As Don the Con repeatedly pointed out, he was doing all this as a YUUGE favour to the people of Scotland (the land where his mother lived in poverty before her open-ended steerage class "holiday" to the States - she was not an immigrant folks - FAKE NEWS!) and we ought to be properly grateful to him. However, the favour did not extent to actually paying for any of it (liquidity problems perhaps?), so Trump would need permission for about 1500 houses too, in a completely unsustainable location where they would normally not be allowed. To address any concerns on that front it was claimed that they would mainly be "holiday homes" for the visiting 1% and were therefore essential to the success of the golf course (and to the gratuitous tipping of local cabbies). However, as the Scottish planning system does not differentiate between holiday and other residential accommodation, we would all just have to take his word for that.

The proposal divided public opinion between those who believed (or at least hoped) that some of Trump's grandiose promises might actually be true, and those with a developed sense of smell. I suspect that the local planners knew it was all complete BS but given the intense political and media interest they had to give the Trump Organisation every opportunity to provide some remotely convincing evidence in support of its claims, so they kept pressing for deferral of the decision. Ultimately, when backed into a corner to put the application before the relevant committee for a decision they recommended "minded to grant" subject to a laundry list of unresolved matters being satisfactorily resolved (which they probably recognised would never happen and that permission would therefore not actually be granted). However the committee wisely bit the bullet and decided to refuse the application. Due to a peculiar piece of local bureaucracy the planners could not issue that decision until the reasons for refusal had been approved by a subsequent committee.

A reputable developer in that situation would have waited a month, got their decision with its reasons for refusal, and submitted an appeal in the normal manner. Naturally that approach was not good enough for His Orange Majesty. Instead, he announced that unless the Scottish Government intervened immediately to approve the application he would take his ball and go home, that he would never invest in our LOSER country and that Scotland would become an international laughing stock for turning down a proposal that would undoubtedly have become the eighth wonder of the world. Also, it would all be the personal fault of then First Minister Alex Salmond who was coincidentally the local MSP, so the half of the local electorate which still took Trump seriously (remember this was 10+ years ago) should be sure to vote against Salmond at the next election.

Cue the hurried decision of the Scottish Government to "call in" the application (which had not yet legally been determined). Anyway, in due course the decision was made by the relevant Minister to approve the application. A brief period of mutual ego-stroking between Trump and Salmond then allowed the latter to bask in the reflected fame and "success" of the Donald.

Oddly enough, subsequent events showed that the number and quality of jobs created by the golf course had indeed been overstated by several orders of magnitude, that the destruction of the environment was even worse than anticipated, that the Trump Organisation blithely ignores the conditions of its planning permission, and that Trump is prepared to pursue petty personal vendettas against local residents who stand in his way with an almost inconceivable level of vindictiveness. He has not yet built the 1500 houses, but expect a gated community of vulgar McMansions (look it up if you don't know) with little connection to the golf course.

Suffice to say that this situation left the Scottish Government with some egg on its chin, as it looked an awful lot like they had been suckered by a ridiculous grifter that they should have seen through from a mile off. Salmond attempted to get Trump to return the favour by asking Trump to support his administration's dubious decision to free the Lockerbie bomber, but Trump declined (he was a Muslim, after all). Trump then embarked on a massive public tantrum about a proposal for offshore-wind turbines which would be visible from the Balmedie golf course and would thus somehow be 100% responsible for it not living up to any of his promises, complete with all the tin hat global warming denialism that no-one in the world outside the GOP takes seriously, and when the decision went against him he ranted personal abuse at Salmond and the people of Scotland in his usual way.

There then followed birtherism and literally everything that Trump has said or tweeted in the last four years, which cumulatively have served to further undermine his credibility ever so slightly.

As regards the Turnberry course, I recently heard from a consultant who had done work on it that (gasp!) there had been 'issues with payment' for these services. Trump has also destroyed a historic fountain at the hotel and replaced it with a much larger and gawdier one, amongst other acts of vulganianism.

Thus it is fair to say that as a result of his words and deeds Trump is not currently held in any degree of esteem by any segment of the Scottish political establishment. Even the Scottish Conservatives opposed his recent visit, and South Ayrshire Council is run by a SNP-Labour coalition which is likely to be even less sympathetic towards him. After the Balmedie shambles anything that his organisation says in support of a planning proposal is liable to be subject to very intense scrutiny. Moreover, the guy is so unpopular with the Scottish public that there is political capital to be gained just by pissing him off. Recently, the Scottish Government abolished a tax break on golf courses that only applied to Trump Balmedie for that sole purpose!

Therefore, whilst it's certain to provoke some name-calling, I wouldn't bet on him getting his way at Turnberry.

TexasTowelie

(112,056 posts)
16. I knew that there was controversy about the golf course in Scotland,
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 12:08 AM
Nov 2018

but you gave a great description of the events in a relatively concise format. Thank you for all of that information.

Welcome to DU! I hope that you will choose to participate further in our discussions.

Rhiannon12866

(205,016 posts)
19. Thanks so much for the information!
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 03:16 AM
Nov 2018

Spectacular first post and welcome to DU! It's great to have you with us!

blugbox

(951 posts)
22. Holy shit. THAT is how you do a first post.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 01:42 PM
Nov 2018

You provided very valuable information from a very unique and personal angle, and your writing style is very informative while still being pleasurable to read. I know that post took a great while to type up, and I sincerely thank you for taking the time. Welcome to DU, and I absolutely look forward to your contributions to future threads!

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
17. Please keep us updated on any further developments.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 01:20 AM
Nov 2018

I have read accounts before this, but you flesh out a lot of details and quite humorously, though I don't think there is anything remotely funny about the destruction of such beautiful coastal habitat. It will take decades to repair the damage done.

I do love Michael Forbes, though. Any thoughts on him ?

Borderer

(50 posts)
23. Thanks all for welcome, etc.
Mon Nov 12, 2018, 11:15 PM
Nov 2018

Thanks to everyone above for the welcomes.

Yes Haggis, I think Michael Forbes has handled his situation very well. The harassment which Mr Forbes and the other neighbours have had to put up with from the Trump Org would have broken a lot of people, and to be so defiant must take an enormous amount of guts. For another example of neighbours bravely standing up to Trump's bottomless spite, I recommend this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-inauguration-protests-what-life-like-donald-trump-presidency-what-to-expect-from-trump-a7534736.html

There is a lot to get angry about reading what Cheeto has put these people through out of sheer vindictiveness, but it is a little bit amusing to learn that his organisation is so inept that it cannot even plant a spite hedge competently.

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