Man attacked by emotional support dog on Delta flight sues the airline and passenger

[mahatmakanejeeves]

Source: NBC News

U.S. NEWS
Man attacked by emotional support dog on Delta flight sues the airline and passenger

May 30, 2019, 10:05 AM EDT
By Minyvonne Burke

An Alabama man is suing Delta Air Lines and one of its passengers over his getting mauled by an emotional support dog on a flight in 2017. ... The attack was so severe that Marlin Jackson suffered "extensive facial damage," including lacerations to his nose and mouth, and bled so profusely "that the entire row of seats had to be removed from the airplane," according to the suit, which was filed on Friday in Georgia's State Court of Fulton County.

Jackson was seated in a window seat on a Delta flight from Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport to San Diego International Airport in June 2017, the suit says. ... Fellow passenger Ronald Mundy was already in his middle seat "with his large dog attempting to sit in his lap," according to the suit, which says that Delta's policy required large emotional support dogs be secured on the floor. ... "Defendant Delta allowed the large animal to remain in Defendant Mundy's lap while Delta employees passed through the area in open disregard of said policy," the suit states.

Before taking his seat down, Jackson asked Mundy if the dog would bite and Mundy assured him the animal was safe. As Jackson buckled his seatbelt, the dog started to growl and shift in Mundy's lap, according to the lawsuit. Jackson again asked if the dog was safe, and Mundy said it was. ... Without warning, the dog lunged at Jackson, biting him several times in the face and pinning him against the window, the suit states.

"The attack was briefly interrupted when the animal was pulled away from Mr. Jackson. However, the animal broke free and again mauled Mr. Jackson's face," according to the lawsuit. .... According to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, the dog that attacked Jackson was 50 pounds. Mundy is a military veteran, according to Journal Constitution. (1)

(1) https://www.ajc.com/travel/delta-passenger-bitten-emotional-support-dog-couldn-escape-says-attorney/nYtlgO1rGbVMv68XekCWUL/

Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-attacked-emotional-support-dog-delta-flight-sues-airline-passenger-n1011881

[Fullduplexxx]

1. I knew this was only a matter of time

[olegramps]

12. We have a realive that has a service or support dog.

I really think it has gotten out of control. This guys kids think it is ridiculous and can't believe that he got some doctor to agree. I was on a flight and the cabin attendant came through as we were stowing our luggage and a guy's support dog was on the seat and he told the passage in no uncertain words to get the dog off the seat or he would be billed for its cleaning and sanitation. Latter in the flight he came back and handed the person an envelop. I wondered if it was for a bill. The guy looked at it put it back in envelop and never said a word.

[hlthe2b]

2. Horrible and sad, but I sincerely hope there is not an excessive overreaction with future policy.

Kneejerk responses are not the way to formulate any needed changes to the policy. Well thought out and researched positions are...

[Cirque du So-What]

8. Obviously no knee-jerk responses needed

What's one mauling anyway? The airlines can allow at least a few dozen maulings before jumping to conclusions.

[hlthe2b]

15. Kneejerk response is banning ALL animals, which some (perhaps you?) would scream for.

That is what I warn against. Those who react without having the facts are not helpful. The facts in this case are that Delta didn't follow its own policies that are in place. That doesn't mean there may not be a need for additional, but kneejerk sarcastic comments such as yours are not the way.

[Cirque du So-What]

27. Howzabout you direct your commentary toward some in this thread who are calling for an outright ban

instead of speculating on whether I'd scream for an outright ban? You'd be correct, however, if you thought that I think the right NOT to get mauled supersedes bringing unlicensed animals on aircraft.

[hlthe2b]

29. Because you imply anyone who wants policy to be both enforced and revisions supported by facts

are somehow callous to the situation. That is not only untrue, unfair, but despicable.

[Cirque du So-What]

31. Once again, you attribute those statements to me, when I have said nothing of the sort

You can find no shortage of that attitude inthis thread, but I guess I'm a convenient target for your indignation - else you"d be addressing them and not me.

[hlthe2b]

32. You are more than deserving because of your initial post.

[Cirque du So-What]

34. Oh, because it's so terrible that I don't want anyone mauled on an airplane?

Knee-jerk my patoot!

[hlthe2b]

35. No one wants anyone mauled on an airplane.

It is your lack of constructive discussion-sans accusations that those who support changes that are carefully thought out are somehow dismissive of the horror of this incident. Ugly, ugly attitude.

[Cirque du So-What]

37. That's just, like, your opinion

Here's my last, best effort to explain my reaction. You may make accusations following my post, but I'm through with this shit and will not reply - no matter how hard you attempt to bait me.

It's not a knee-jerk reaction to review the practice of allowing non-service animals - ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF A MAULING INCIDENT RESULTING IN SERIOUS INJURIES TO A PASSENGER.

Q.E.D.

[hlthe2b]

38. I have ALWAYS called for review-- not kneejerk bans

Your attempts to accuse me of being dismissive of this horrible mauling, rather than calling for a well thought out review and appropriate fact-based change to policy as needed, rather than knee-jerk responses including bans is irresponsible and disingenuous as can be. I'm not baiting you, but I will defend against such irresponsible accusations.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

72. Fact: someone mauled by uncertified untrained animal. Fact: training & certification & selection of

tempermentally suitable animals would eliminate/greatly lessen the probability of this happening.

What more "facts" are you looking for?

Honest question.

[hlthe2b]

73. A simple review of what happened in this case before you jump off the cliff with your proposals.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

84. "simple review" - yep, I read the article. Did you? What else is there to know? nt

[hlthe2b]

85. More so than you obviously. You seemed to have become blinded by rage at dog owners in general

rather than calmly assessing what might have happened here. Was policy followed? (NO). Why did this happen? (all facts not yet known). But no, your unearned ultra self-sanctimony somehow empowers you with all the answers and the need to lash out at others who are equally concerned by what happened, but want good sense and effective policy assessment to win out.

There is at least one poster on this thread who calls for a total ban on animals of any kind--including trained, certified SERVICE dogs for the handicapped. That is what happens if knee-jerk responses to a tragic episode such as this are allowed to prevail rather than cooler heads that will analyze the facts and determine the best way to prevent future incidents. Opting for the latter does not mean we don't care about what happened to this man. Quite the contrary.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

90. So take it up with that other poster who said that. I didnt. nt

[treestar]

97. Whether this dog was properly trained

Or had prior incidents. But mostly whether the flight attendants were negligent in enforcing the airline’s rules and whether the rules were reasonable.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

101. Hmm. I'm reminded here of the gun apologists who assert

that most gun owners are completely responsible and the mass shootings, or even the guns found by a toddler in his mother's purse are genuine anomalies and are absolutely no reason whatsoever to consider any gun restrictions of any kind.

Well fuck that. Guns need to be regulated. And unregulated "companion" animals need to be regulated.

Just as my right to life really ought to outweigh your right to own a gun, my right not to be mauled outweighs your bullshit service animal.

[Loki Liesmith]

30. It's not a knee jerk response if you always were against animals on planes

It’s a terrible idea. I don’t care if it makes it easier for some micropercentage of people to fly.

[hlthe2b]

33. It is a horrible attitude given you'd likewise ban true service dogs. I'll take them over people

lacking compassion for the disabled, any day.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

103. In which case I'm guessing you're just fine with being mauled

by an untrained "service animal". I'm not.

[Sapient Donkey]

54. Are you against trained service animals too?

[Jake Stern]

60. My blind partner is one of that "micropercentage" you so callously dismiss

I remember a time when Democrats supported greater rights and expanding accessibility for the disabled.

[customerserviceguy]

108. When it was just seeing eye dogs

we didn't have these problems. Seeing eye dogs are well trained, selected from breeds that are compatible with social situations regarding unknown humans. It is the wimps who need their "security iguana" who are threatening your partner's ability to take the seeing eye dog along.

It's gotten way out of hand, time to rein things in considerably. If you can't travel without taking your pet, then stay the fuck at home and pull the covers over your head.

[LanternWaste]

64. That often seems to be the sentiment when assistance is irrelevant to the individual.

"I don’t care..."

That often seems to be the short-sighted and narrow-minded sentiment when assistance is irrelevant to the individual. Offering 'micro-percentage' as a justification is simply our illogical and unsupported defense of the irrational.

[Codeine]

89. I'm assuming you aren't referring

to legitimate trained service animals, but rather the goofy “support animal” nonsense.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

9. Extreme situations call for extreme measures - no untrained, uncertified animals - period. nt

[hlthe2b]

13. That isn't what I said. I said changes need to be well thought out and researched, not

kneejerk total bans--something which I'm sure you know there will be those who will demand.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

23. I heard you the first time - we have a difference of opinion, and I was stating mine. I think there

should be a total ban of animals that are not trained and certified. No research is necessary IMHO. One incident like this is one too many.

[hlthe2b]

25. I don't disagree on training/certification. I do disagree on making judgements without the facts.

and specifically, the minority that would call for total bans sans any attempt to understand what happened and why, what the policies are now, whether they are followed, and what the alternatives are.

They are rightfully going to lose this lawsuit because they did not even follow their own policies.

[Sapient Donkey]

49. I don't think most people would call for a total ban that would limit trained and certified service

animals. I haven't seen anyone on here say they want to see it taken to that level.

[hlthe2b]

50. There is at least one.

I have a dear deceased friend/colleague who was instrumental in passing our current ADA. Before that, quality of life for the disabled was often marginalized existence. I understand people's emotions run high after something like this, but knee-jerk call for bans rather than well thought out responses are more often the result.

[Sapient Donkey]

56. I gotcha and agree 100%

I don't think anything you've been saying in this thread is unreasonable.


I saw the post you're referring to just now.

[TruckFump]

43. I agree and I have a service dog.

Those who have fake service dogs or no real need for an emotional support dog are hurting those of us who MUST have a service dog. I am very hard of hearing. My dog goes with me when I drive because I simply cannot hear horns honking and until the sound is right on top of me, I cannot hear emergency sirens. My dog rides shotgun in a seat immediately behind me at me shoulder and she howls into my ear and puts a paw on my shoulder if there is a horn honking or a siren.

I must have her with me most of the time. Sounds many take for granted which are for our safety are not part of my world. For example, in grocery and other stores, electric carts make a noise to warn people that the cart is approaching from the rear (so I am told). I cannot hear that. Therefore, my small dog is in the cart and if there is a beeping cart behind me, she alerts me.

These service dogs are so well trained that people are amazed to watch them. Smart, dedicated, and they allow for people with handicaps to be self-reliant.

Because I obviously am not blind or in wheel chair or have some other easily visible handicap, I often get shit from other patrons as well as managers of places I go. Ignorance and too many fake dogs are a problem for those who really need the aid of a boon companion specially trained to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves. I have left places in tears because of what has been said and/or done to me. One nasty female in a coffee shop called the police to have me arrested for having my service dog in a restaurant. This dumb ass actually grabbed my dog's leash and tried to remove both of us from the premises. One of us got arrested for interfering with a service dog -- and it sure wasn't me. Karma...she was the one who called the police and they did their job!

[Blackjackdavey]

45. The problem is

under the law you can't be asked for papers identifying whether you have a trained/certified service dog. That provision prevents your privacy from being violated and prevents harassment. Unfortunately, that same law is used by people who have untrained and often totally inappropriate emotional support dogs to haul their dog around everywhere, and forcing them upon others who have been traumatized by dogs, simply because they asked their psychiatrist to write a letter saying they need one-- which is totally unregulated and arbitrary.

[TruckFump]

46. You are totally correct.

However, there is something in LA County that is helpful: If you can show your dog is specially trained as a service dog, you get a special medallion that goes on the dog's collar instead of a regular dog license. You can either show the dog's papers from a professional trainer or you can show training schedules that the owner put the dog through. The dog has to do a minimum of three actions which are directly associated with the disability. One does not have to put the dog through its paces in front of Animal Control for this since the professional trainer and/or the self trained records will show what the dog was taught to do. The certified service dog gets a break on licensing costs and law enforcement knows that this dog is really what the partner with the dog claims the dog to be. For my first service dog, it took me six months to train her to alert to certain sounds. Some are easy, others are not. The smoke alarm was the hardest for her. The door bell? A cinch!

Of course, those faking it are protected by exactly what you set out. I can see both sides of it, but for someone like me, I get a lot of garbage because of the fake dogs and my hearing loss is not obvious when you look at me.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

71. OK, thats interesting but why would showing certification for your animal be any more problematic

or an invasion of your privacy than having to have a handicapped sticker thing for your car? Im not following the logic.

[forgotmylogin]

78. Perhaps legit service and support animals should get a special "Certified for travel" tag?

[Doreen]

51. Those of us with "invisable" disabilities

have a really hard time with people saying we are lying. Try going places with a German Shepherd when you "look" fine. I got pretty bad looks and comments. My dog was the epitome of how a service dog should be and I still got nasty looks and comments while the shithead down the isle with a yapping little dog jumping on everyone around gets "aww cute" and "how adorable" comments.

[TruckFump]

66. Boy, do I hear you!!!!

Case in Point: My late husband was literally dying of Congestive Heart failure. Great big, barrel chested guy, nearly 6'4" tall. He needed a handicap sticker for parking due to his heart problems. The nasty things said to him, unbelievable. Because he looked good, did not mean was healthy.

Yep, my last service dog and my present one -- both mid sized terriers. Cute as hell, but they are not toys, do not pet -- they are on the job. I always loved the personality change in the dog when the service vest went on. All serious duty and not play time! I had a German Shepherd long time ago -- what a great dog!!! Beautiful personality and not just the looks!

The lady who got arrested for trying to drag my service dog out of the coffee shop was saying shit about nothing was wrong with me and I was faking, etc. Gawd, it was awful. It was her "duty," she was yelling at me, to protect everyone there cuz dogs are "filty creatures." She got community service, a fine, and probation. She also have to do her community service with a guard dog training center to see what people with handicaps and their partner dog go through to do what others do with ease.

[Doreen]

70. Oh yeah, the handicap sticker issue.

Forgot about tha one. Glad they made her work with service dogs. People just do not think that these animals are there for our safety and if they are drawing their attention away from their owner can result in a bad situation for the owner.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

102. If your dog behaves well in public, then I sincerely doubt you have a problem.

Completely outside the service dog issue, I have a HUGE problem with a lot of regular dogs. They bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and I could go on for several hundred pages here, but I hope you get the point. Too many people of regular, non service dogs, don't seem to get it that the rest of us don't want to hear them bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and make life fucking miserable for those of us who are not enamored of dogs barking. I really should be able to walk into my fenced in back yard without hearing your fucking dog bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark and bark.

I have a neighbor across the street with a dog who barks far more than he should, and I've told her she needs to take him to obedience school. Yeah, I know she's busy, working full time and all that, but her personal life would be a lot more pleasant if she did that.

Aside from the fact that I like cats a whole lot more to begin with, at least you never hear a cat meow from across the street or even from across your back yard.

When I become dictator of North America, barking dogs will quickly be euthanized. If your dog barks, he's out of here. And spare me your crocodile tears. Adopt a different dog, one who doesn't bark day and night. Or, and I'm sure this is a totally novel idea, train your dog not to bark endlessly.

[Doreen]

109. I would not want to euthanize the dog.

It is not their fault. I was thinking that should be saved for the owner who refuses for one reason or another to get the problem fixed. If you do not have the knowledge or time to train your dog then you do not need to have one.

There are many books out there that help teach people how to train their dog and fix just about all problems. If they have the money get a fricken trainer.

I understand your frustration with dogs that incessantly bark. I have had those type neighbors also. I have also been out in public where people have some damn dog that won't shut up and they do not try to do anything.

I must admit however my HUGE problem are lazy, self centered, rude, arrogant, nasty, and just unclean people who will not clean their dogs crap in public places. That pisses me off to no end. I do not give a flying fuck if it is nasty, that person decided to have a dog so they need to be responsible for that decision.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

113. Why don't you get a set of earplugs or turn on a fan if you are so miserable?

I live in the Chicago near Wrigley Field. The building behind us is a higher end rental that has typically younger professionals as residents. They party a lot in the summertime - especially during cubs games.

We close the window or turn on the air or a fan when their deck is rocking. No big deal. It’s like magic. The noise goes away.

My neighbor, on the other hand, stares out the window, twirls her hair, calls the police and yells out the window while she waits up all hours to see if the cops do anything (they usually don’t).

She’s completely miserable when she could easily mitigate the situation.

I don’t get it.

[milestogo]

88. Yes, great example of a real working dog.

Real service dogs are not supposed to interact much with other people, but all of the ones I've met have great temperaments.

"Emotional support dog" seems to be a lot more subjective. Just because a dog is an emotional support to me it doesn't mean he is to everyone.

My neighbors have a dog-aggressive pit bull that wants to kill my dog. The couple told the landlord that its their "emotional support dog" so they can't get rid of it. I call bullshit. They've found a loophole to exploit and they're getting away with it.

[TruckFump]

94. One of my friends has a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad neighbor with 3 yippie dogs

One pet per residence allowed in this development. The neighbor went to her therapist and got a note that all three are emotional support dogs and essential to the well being of her client. Management could do -0- about the doggie problem.

Gag me!

[brooklynite]

11. It doesn't sound like the policy needs changing...it needs implementing.

Delta is going to lose the lawsuit because they apparently didn't apply the policy standards.

[hlthe2b]

14. True enough.

[RhodeIslandOne]

100. I'm curious as to why they didn't

Did this guy threaten them with some sort of lawsuit when they asked him to follow policy and became intimidated?

[Pachamama]

3. 50lb dog on a lap? That is a seriously large dog - I wonder what breed too...

My daughter has a service dog that has been trained - he is a 35lb medium size golden doodle. I cannot even imagine him on her or my lap for any period of time.

Crazy story and I cannot imagine the terror of being pinned against an airline window with a dog mauling my face.

Horrible story

[ScratchCat]

4. There are people you genuinely need service dogs

and there are people who do not. These are not service dogs, do not go through similar training and should not be allowed on a plane. You could literally pick up an abused dog at the animal shelter, get an online certificate and call it your "Emotional support dog".

[cab67]

16. the system is indeed being abused.

People are using it to get dogs and cats into housing that otherwise would not allow pets.

Support animals are treated differently legally from service animals. Service animals must be accommodated; "reasonable" accommodations are expected for support animals. And in my view, there should be a LOT more scrutiny of both the animals being used for support, the evidence that such support is needed, and the kinds of accommodations that are "reasonable."

[csziggy]

91. My crazy niece keeps adopting what she calls "emotional support dogs"

They get no training at all, most of hers have not even been house broken or leash trained. She's had to get rid of more than one because they bite people and are taken away after repeated incidents. And the kind of nuts that woman is, no dog is really safe around her or will help her with her problems.

She is exactly the kind of person that gives support dogs and animals a bad name. Frankly, she should never be allowed to own an animal but she has learned to game the system.

For the sake of people who really need and benefit from support animals, I wish there were some strict method of certifying the real ones so the idiots with fake ones are not taking advantage.

[Glorfindel]

5. Hit 'em in the pocketbook. That seems to be the "American Way" lately

and the only way improvements get made. Accommodations can be made for emotional support animals, but it takes a little thought and planning. If it costs Delta and its passengers with emotional support animals enough money, maybe it will get their attention. I hope the victim collects several million dollars. He deserves it.

[emmaverybo]

6. Usually red flags before in such a severe case. Dog was guarding, but I doubt first time he

has shown signs of aggression when someone, perhaps particularly a male, is in close proximity to
his guardian. Not just growling, or a snap, but full out attack shows temperament issues, lack of bite inhibition, serious behavioral problem. Wonder this all not not picked up in training.
Maybe dog’s first time flying, in closed quarters with strangers?
Sounds bad and dog is a threat. Could have been a child victim.

[mopinko]

24. picked up in training? i doubt there was any training.

there are no standards for these dogs, and no training is required by anyone.

[emmaverybo]

75. Well, that was the mystery to me, what the quality of said training was. But it appears doubtful

there was any and I had ignored that he was an Emotional Service dog, which means as you say, a dog the guardian declared one upon minimal paperwork. However, it should be said that some are
trained during which time, according to training standards used, a person qualified in knowing canine behaviors would have spotted the dog’s low threshold for frustration, aggressive guarding behaviors etc.

[Doreen]

53. From my lifetime of working with dogs on a professional

level I can tell you this dog should have never been a service/ESA.

[emmaverybo]

76. 100 percent agree.

[SunSeeker]

7. People, like this dog owner, are abusing the service dog rules.

That was no service dog. Trained service dogs do not attack people. That dog should be put down and that horrifically injured man should get every penny the dog owner has.

These obnoxious dog owners will make it harder for people who really need service animals to have them in public places. The airline should be on the hook as well for expecting a 50lb dog to sit safely in someone's lap for the duration of a flight. That was insane.

[OnlinePoker]

21. Emotional support animals are not service animals.

Last edited Thu May 30, 2019, 12:49 PM - Edit history (1)

From the Wiki: Any animal that provides support, well-being, comfort, or aid, to an individual through companionship, non-judgmental positive regard, and affection may be regarded as an emotional support animal.

There is no training required. They're basically pets that make you feel better having them around. All you need is a doctor to sign a slip saying you need one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_support_animal

[SunSeeker]

26. We need regulation of these animals. This is out of conttol. nt

[ripcord]

55. I thought we were to that point awhile ago

When they started allowing emotional support goats and ponies on planes, accommodating pets is one things, livestock is totally different.

[Fullduplexxx]

40. Wiki lol

[OnlinePoker]

42. If you look at the wiki, it has a link to the study this line is from.

Don't be so snarky.

[cab67]

10. emotional support animals are complicating many things

I met a college student a few years ago when I gave a seminar at his institution. He'd come home from Iraq with emotional problems (not sure if it was PTSD or something else), and was allowed to carry an emotional support animal along with him.

The problem was that his emotional support animal was a Ball python.

Ball pythons are not very large (though they look bigger than they are), and they're typically very docile. They're non-venomous and not dangerous to humans by any stretch of the imagination - except for the fact that large numbers of people are deathly afraid of snakes.

Snake phobias are real things. My father - the bravest man I knew in any other respect - would quickly walk away if he saw a snake. A colleague of mine once got into trouble for bringing a snake to his class; one of his students broke his leg tripping over furniture on his way out the door.

The veteran student whom I met thus presented a challenge to a university obliged to make reasonable accommodations for support animals that weren't classified as actual service animals. They had to work his schedule and curriculum so that faculty with snake phobias would be shielded from the python. I have no idea how they dealt with students who might have a problem with snakes.

ADDED ON EDIT: Based on some of the other comments I've read, there seems to be some confusion over the difference between a service animal and a support (or therapeutic) animal. Service animals are trained to perform specific tasks (help the visually impaired, carry objects, sense an oncoming epileptic seizure, etc.), and are always identified with a special harness denoting their status. In nearly every case the average person is likely to encounter, service animals are dogs. (Miniature horses and monkeys have also been used as service animals, but not nearly as widely.). By law, service animals must be accommodated.

Some people really do need support animals - the veteran student I mentioned above genuinely had psychological problems the python helped solve. And many/most such animals are at least socialized, if not specifically trained. But "support animal" is not as tightly defined, and often, all it takes is a letter from a therapist to get an animal approved as a support animal. Based on what I've learned from my wife (a clinical psychologist), finding a therapist who will sign something is usually a matter of diligence - eventually, you'll find one. Such animals are sometimes given harnesses or jackets that identify them as being more than a mere pet, and these harnesses look a lot like those worn by real service animals. That, along with the fact that too many people confuse "support" and "service" animals (which are legally and practically completely different), means people sometimes get away with bringing untrained (or even untrainable) animals into places they would normally not be allowed.

[Glorfindel]

19. " Snake phobias are real things." Oh, yes, they are. I'm scared of PICTURES of snakes,

let alone the real thing. If someone approached me bearing a snake, I would (a) Run like hell and (b) never speak to or acknowledge the existence of that person again.

[cab67]

22. Understood.

I used to be that way about spiders. I've gotten much better - I don't kill them on sight, and I've even encountered salticids (jumping spiders) that qualify as "cute" - but my level of decorum tends to drop sharply if a spider, or even a web, gets on me.

[Igel]

77. As a child I was allergic to fur and feathers.

Put me around a hamster or a dog for a couple of hours and I'd have a 102 degree fever. Perhaps a rash. It would take a day or two for the response to abate. Not much vomiting, just flushed, fever, and lethargic as a result. For years I missed upwards of 70 days of school per year, spent weekends sick, and generally was miserable--until my brother's parakeet and my parents' dog were banished.

I wouldn't need to touch the animal. Wouldn't need to pick it up. Being where it had deposited dander or whatever antigen-containing animal-related animal byproduct was enough. We'd visit my cousin for a few hours and that night and the next day I'd be sick.

Fortunately, I lost that allergy (along with the standard allergic reaction to poison ivy) when I was 11 or 12. But if anybody on the plane with the service animal has the same allergy to the same extent, it pays to remember that every such "right" imposes some obligation or exacts a cost from somebody.

It would be like my having a "right" to take a bouquet of flowers on a plane. I've seen people do it, they act like it's fine. But then for fellow passengers to find that instead of the standard florist's fern fronds the bouquet used poison ivy. (I mean, it has no effect on me at all, fern or poison ivy. From my vantage point, the poison ivy's a bit prettier. But I acknowledge that what I think is harmless could, um, inconvenience others.) There's more clearly a downside with poison ivy than with having a (small) dog on a plane, but that doesn't mean that there's not a downside to each.

Note that my example doesn't just cover "emotional support" animals (for which there's mostly scant, mostly self-serving research); it would *also* include actual service animals.

[cab67]

80. It wouldn't take poison ivy for me.

I’m allergic to any and all plant and fungus gametes. A bunch of ordinary flowers can trigger a reaction.

[csziggy]

92. Great post!

And it made me embarrassed - in my post above I confused service animals with support animals. Mostly I was negative about the so-called "emotional support animals" that have no training, no certification, nothing but the claims of the owner to the animal's status, as in the case of my niece's untrained pets.

On the other hand, unless the animal caused a problem - aggression, making a mess, interfering with my business - I would never confront someone about their animal. Well, except maybe the women that cart yappy little dogs inside their purses into food stores - to me that is a health hazard.

A real service animal with a harness has never been of any concern to me.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

104. I'm sorry but some kind of a snake as a support animal is

in the category of total bullshit. It's certainly not a service animal, as you've clearly outlined in your post. And someone who wants such an anomalous animal as a support one needs to be congnizent of why most people aren't very accepting of his "support" animal. Which is another way of saying, get over yourself. Conform to societal norms. It's really not that hard. You are not as special as you think you are.

[cab67]

105. respectfully disagree

The student I met had been a herpetophile all his life. He was also allergic to dogs and cats. For him, a snake made perfect sense.

To his credit, he was fully aware of the issues his snake might create and worked with university staff to ensure his accommodations didn't infringe on everyone else, or to at least minimize such infringement.

There should be very strict guidelines regulating the designation of support animals, and their owners should be aware that "reasonable accommodation" doesn't mean "full accommodation," but it would be short-sighted to dismiss someone with an emotional attachment to a snake - I've been very fond of pet reptiles, including snakes - as not conforming to societal norms.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

17. So how bout some emotional support for the emotional support animals!? Poor things getting stressed

Last edited Thu May 30, 2019, 02:35 PM - Edit history (1)

out and dragged all over creation just to gratify someone's fragile ego apparently.

Sorry I have no tolerance for this misuse of animals. I say this as someone who does have my own set of issues and who does rely heavily on my pets for.... well, ok emotional support. It does not follow that I need to drag my pets all over creation to benefit from havin g the loving relationship with them.


However if someone really DOES need that ... take it up with your Dr. and get propertly trained and certified animal for that purpose.

[get the red out]

36. I agree

My dogs certainly offer me emotional support, I wouldn't dream of certifying them and I wouldn't want to put them in situations that could terrify them, but being they are dogs there are acceptable places they are happy to go with me. Other kinds of pets, like snakes, might suffer too much stress themselves in surroundings that are normal for people and dogs. I always worry about animals stressing too much. Even with my two dogs, I have one that enjoys going to the farmer's market with me and one who finds it irritating.

[yardwork]

39. I agree.

[Doreen]

61. Hey, I have an ESA that has an ESA.

Well, the story goes that I have an ESA cat ( who stays home ) and had a Chihuahua. Well my poor Chihuahua was in a kennel most of the time when I tried to work and I could not walk out the door for a minute without him peeing some place so I rehomed him. Well, my ESA cat went into a depression and was not even helping me as she hid under the bed except for eating a little bit and going to the bathroom. So, I got her a damn kitten. She came out of her depression and went back to her old self. Now I have an adorable but annoying cat who is her ESA..

[Aristus]

18. This is why I no longer accede to requests for provider notes authorizing

an 'emotional support' animal.

All pets are for emotional support. And in the absence of a regulatory agency for these, I'm not going on the hook for your emotional support attack dog. If you have to have this animal with you at all times in order to get through your day, you'll have to come to grips with the fact that there will be places you can't go.

[cstanleytech]

20. Perhaps a simple change of requiring muzzles for all uncaged animals as well as

the purchase of a second adjoining seat for the animal which is covered with a protective cover?

[SunSeeker]

28. Seems reasonable. But I'd still hate to be stuck in the seat next to them.

Plus a lot of people are alergic to dogs, like my brother who gets really sick around dogs.

[Doreen]

62. That was on of the reasons I kept my service dog regularly

bathed and always did a brushing before I worked him. People with service/ESA animals just do not seem to think about those with allergis.

[cstanleytech]

83. Assuming airlines have leeway to shift passengers around to other seats anyone with a severe

allergy should have about the same amount of risk as they do in everyday life.

[IronLionZion]

41. passengers have sat on emotional support animal poop before

I get that some folks legit need their emotional support animal, but many others are clearly abusing the system as an excuse to bring their untrained pet on board with no regard for anyone else.

I dated a blind woman with a service dog that had thousands of dollars worth of training to be a good service dog. Emotional support dogs can be just someone's pet and they found a doctor to sign that they have an emotional disorder. The dog doesn't need any training. I've seen some emotional support dogs that probably need their own emotional support.

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-qualify-for-an-emotional-support-animal/

[msongs]

44. the emotional support dog thing is a racket, a scam. can I bring my support crocodile on a plane too

[Doreen]

63. Actually with the lax laws you can.

Yeah, stupid.

[Sapient Donkey]

47. Am I correct in my understanding that emotional support dogs are not necessarily trained

dogs of a certain temperament?

[Aristus]

58. Yes. An 'emotional support' animal can be whatever its master wants it to be.

I've heard of emotional support ferrets, emotional support otters, emotional support armadillos, etc.

There is no regulatory agency monitoring training standards for these animals, no quality control authority, no DSM classification for which an 'emotional support' animal is considered standard of care.

And this attack by an untrained dog is the logical end-result of this.

[dixiegrrrrl]

69. I did read that one of the airlines has imposed limits on the type of animal

you have with you. actually, I seem to remember it was delta.
They basically banned the weird ones, like parrots, snakes, etc while okaying dogs, cats.

[Doreen]

48. I am a big service/ESA animal advocate but I

see several things and assume several things went wrong.

Delta should have put the ESA and owner in a less crowded place and should never had allowed the dog to stay on the owners lap. Delta should have known there was going to be a service/ESA animal prior to bording and adjusted seating accordingly.

On the owners side he also should not have allowed the dog to be on his lap and he should have requested a different seat seeing the potential of what could happen even though he felt his dog would not do something like that.

I have an odd feeling that the dog did not have proper training by either the owner or a professional. I also have a feeling the owner did not have training himself or at least read rules of proper service/ESA animal conduct.

These should be some of the official servive/ESA animal rules.

1. Even the smallest of service/ESA animals are to be on the ground not on the lap or being carried around or in a shopping cart. These are working animals not pets.

2. Despite being owner trained or professionally trained a service/ESA and owner should have to do a final certification test to ensure proper training for proper social and working purpose has been completed.

3. Service/ESA animals should be clean at all times when in public.

The rules for service animals used to be strict then people started fighting to have ESA animals and the laws went so weak that anybody could "claim" their animal was a service/ESA even if not and get away with it. The rules and laws need to tighten up again because to many people take advantage of this to take their pets to places and when their pets who do not have strict social training does something wrong it puts society on the path of taking actually needed service/ESA' animal rights away. This puts a lot of actually disabled people into a bind.

I had a German Shepherd service dog that I trained myself and he never sat in my lap, he never tried to get attention while in service band, he always tucked under a seat or snuggled himself in an out of the way position or sat between my legs in a line and I tucked his tail between him and my foot ( to avoid disaster from a stepped on tail ), and he was always clean and brushed.

I am alright if someone does owner training with their service/ESA ( I did ) but they should be required to do a certification test before they can go out.

There needs to be a certification test before the animal is even allowed to go out for training to determine if they would be suitable all the way around for working as a service/ESA. Not all animals have what it takes to be a working animal and people need to accept their animal might not work as a working animal.

If there had been places that I could have had my dog tested for the training I had given him I would have been willing to have had him tested. I also would not have a problem with having to show a card with a doctors signature on it with a statement that this animal is a prescribed service/ESA animal and the signature of the tester who certified the animal with a picture and name of the animal. NO, it would not state your disability just the authenticity of the service/ESA animal.

This incident is the fault of both the airline and the dog owner and it is going to cause a lot of grief for the man who was attacked and people who have official and actually well trained service/ESA animals.

I hope the man who was attacke is going to be alright.

[lunasun]

52. was the owner upset an uppity black guy was concerned about his dog ? how did he lose control

twice ? If the dog was growling before the attack the owner should know the demeanor and have proactively made some assurance the dog did not continue aggression. Glad to see the owner is also being sued

[debsy]

57. A true service dog needs to be trained as such

Many people - including some close to me - have used the law allowing service animals as a way to take their pets with them wherever they go. A true service animal would not attack anyone in such a manner. This law needs to be refined in to stop the flagrant abuse of it. Yes, people who truly need the support of an animal - emotional or otherwise - should be allowed to do so anywhere. But there should be a method in place to prevent the loophole that basically allows anyone to obtain a card with little fanfare.

[Doreen]

65. I used to have a service dog and I did not even take him everywhere.

If I was going places without friends or family then I took him. If I was with friends and family they could help me. My blind friend did not take her service dog all of the time either when she was with friends and family. Having to have most service/ESA animals with you 100% of the time is not necessary. Except for service animals that warn you that you are going to have some dangerous medical issue such as seizures come up.

[IronLionZion]

67. How to Qualify for An Emotional Support Animal

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-qualify-for-an-emotional-support-animal/

If you have an emotional disability, you can legally qualify for an ESA, short for emotional support animal. You must be certified as emotionally disabled by a psychologist, therapist, psychiatrist or other duly-licensed and/or certified mental health professional. This certification should be a formal and appropriately formatted letter.

Any other kind of doctor – a cardiologist, for instance – does not quality as a mental health professional because unlike a psychiatrist, other medical doctors are not specialists in mental health. Some property managers of apartments and airlines, however, accept verification forms filled out by a family physician. Ensure that you have the correct authority that writes the letter for you.

The emotional support animal letter must be written on the mental health professional’s letterhead, include his or her license type, date of license, license number, and the state which issued the license. Moreover, it should have the date when it was written. A sample of the request letter can be viewed at the official website of Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, but there are other websites that have the same kind of samples which you may prefer.

Emotional Support Animal Training

Unlike service animals, ESA’s are not required to be trained to perform a service for their handlers. An ESA provides emotional support for their handlers and can qualify as long as the animal does not cause a disturbance or undue hardship for an apartment manager/owner. For more information on ESA’s and service animals, please contact Service Dog Certifications.

[mainer]

68. Imagine if this had been a child or an infant who was killed

A 50# dog could kill an infant in a flash.

[Blues Heron]

74. No dogs in the cabin

this dog fad is out of control. Put them in the hold like usual.

[Devil Child]

79. He was a law-abiding emotional support pit-mix...

...till he wasn't. Basically an emotional support assault weapon.

Considering the legal costs Mr. Mundy is about to incur maybe next time he will crate the dog and pay the fee for animal transport rather than pull the ESA card.

[cp]

81. My father had a guide dog

Dad went blind. He applied for and received a guide dog from Guide Dogs for the Blind. After his guide dog passed temperament and other tests, he was trained professionally for over a year. Then Dad spent a month in San Rafael being trained to work with his guide dog. The training program was stringent, it had to be. This great dog provided my father increased mobility, independence, and confidence.

I'm guessing that neither the dog on the plane nor its owner did any training.

[KT2000]

86. my neighbor trains puppies

who will become guide dogs. She teaches them the basics and then they are sent to more specialized training. For city training she takes them to Victoria BC (across the water from us) where they learn about ships, city traffic, lots of people, and horse drawn carriages among other things. It is serious business and she knows someone's life may depend upon that good training.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

82. The article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

Delta passenger mauled by emotional support dog files lawsuit

AJC Digging Deeper: Comfort Animals May 28, 2019
By Kelly Yamanouchi, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

A man mauled by another passenger’s emotional support dog on a Delta Air Lines flight has sued the airline and the other passenger for negligence.

The lawsuit filed in Fulton County state court alleges Marlin Jackson was in a window seat when a dog sitting in the lap of the passenger next to him suddenly attacked his face and pinned him against the window of the plane.The June 2017 attack during boarding of a flight from Atlanta to San Diego gained national attention and was followed by a series of changes to airline policies for emotional support and service animals. The federal government is also reviewing its policies for emotional support and service animals on flights.
....

Jackson, who lives in Alabama, “bled so profusely that the entire row of seats had to be removed from the airplane,” according to the complaint. He suffered lacerations and punctures to his face and upper body requiring 28 stitches and medical treatment, it says. The lawsuit also alleges Jackson suffered permanent injury and loss of sensation in areas of his face, “severe physical pain and suffering,” emotional distress and mental anguish, loss of income or earning potential, and substantial medical bills. “His entire lifestyle has been severely impaired by this attack,” the litigation states.
....

After the attack, Delta tightened restrictions on emotional support animals by requiring a “confirmation of animal training” form and other documents. It also banned pit bulls as service or support animals. ... The airline said it “continuously reviews and enhances its policies and procedures for animals onboard as part of its commitment to health, safety and protecting the rights of customers with disabilities.”
....

[Mosby]

87. thanks for the links. nt

[miyazaki]

93. The things I think of after boarding a plane

Will there be an empty seat next to me? Will the flight be on time? Is my stomach ok (rolf)?

One thing I never think of, is if some dog is gonna try to rip my fucking throat out.

Unreal. But here it is.

[Phentex]

98. Yep, here we are...

I love dogs and was on a flight once with a little dog surrounded by other dog lovers and the whole thing was a fun experience. However, if you aren't a dog person, or even hate dogs, or are allergic to dogs, I can see how this would make for a very unpleasant trip. And as you say, you don't think you need to protect yourself from an animal attack on a plane!

[honest.abe]

95. This is rediculous.

If a person has such severe psychological issues that they need a emotional support animal to tolerate flying they shouldn't be flying. Take the bus or take a valium. Much better for everyone.

[TheCowsCameHome]

96. Are you listening, businesses/airlines/retailers?

You're going to get the shit sued out of yourselves.

This going everywhere with pets nonsense is totally out of control.

[TexasAggieDemocrat12]

99. It's out of control

I know several people with "emotional support dogs" and NONE of them are in need of it. It was just a cheaper way of taking their dog on an airplane. I've sat next to genuine guide dogs before that have clearly been trained and had no problem with that. I do, however, have an issue being stuck next to someone's pet on an airplane. I sat next to a lady once that put a pad down on the floor in front of us and allowed her dog to do its business there. It's out of control and it needs to come to an end. If you are too fragile to fly without an "emotional support animal" then you don't need to fly.

[tymorial]

106. I really dislike dogs . I would never sit next to one on a flight.

Its the result of being trampled repeatedly by a Great Dane when I was a kid. My parents really didnt pay very good attention to me when I was young. They took me to my cousins soccer game and I was off playing by myself as usual. This great Dane came over to me and was probably just trying to play with me because he never bit me. He did knock me down and trample me though. I couldn't get away. I had bruises all over and lumps on my head because of it. I remember they stopped the game to get thr dog off of me. My parents were oblivious. I have never wanted anything to do with dogs. It is a great frustration to my wife.

[alphafemale]

107. A dog that large is going to be very stressed and uncomfortable on a lap for several hours

Maybe these people should be forced to buy out three seats in a row so the dog can lie down.

[Marthe48]

110. How could a dog that big fit on the floor

in front of the seat? And really large for the lap. I just flew in a full plane and I didn't feel like there was room for me.

Some of the airlines are changing the rules on support animals. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kzkpqy/jetblue-emotional-support-miniature-horse-vgtrn

I think if your support animal is large you should have to buy 2 seats, and sit so you are between other passengers in the row and your support animal. My best friend was attacked by a dog, while walking her dog, and not only was she injured, she was so traumatized, she stopped walking her dog in the neighborhood, and drove to parks.

[Progressive Jones]

111. Just based on what I've read here, the man has a solid case.

I'm all for the emotional support aspect, but the general safety of society overrides
the needs of one individual. At the end of the day, there were serious injuries
that should have been 100% avoidable.
This is a sad situation. Nobody really wins here,
regardless of the outcome.

[MicaelS]

112. I do not believe live animals of any type belong in the passenger cabin.

I love animals, but there is a time and place for them. And that place is not in an enclosed area surrounded by hundreds of people with no means of escape.

Sorry, that is just the way it is. Some people are allergic to animals, some people are fearful.

If a person is in that dire need of an animal, then they should take Amtrak or travel by car.

However if animals are allowed to travel then they should be in a crate the whole time. And if that means the owner has to buy the animal a ticket the same price they paid, so be it.