"No evidence" that recovered COVID-19 patients cannot be reinfected: WHO

[milestogo]

Source: Reuters

GENEVA (Reuters) - The World Health Organization (WHO) said on Saturday that there was currently “no evidence” that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second coronavirus infection. In a scientific brief, the United Nations agency warned governments against issuing “immunity passports” or “risk-free certificates” to people who have been infected as their accuracy could not be guaranteed.

The practice could actually increase the risks of continued spread as people who have recovered may ignore advice about taking standard precautions against the virus, it said.

“Some governments have suggested that the detection of antibodies to the SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, could serve as the basis for an ‘immunity passport’ or ‘risk-free certificate’ that would enable individuals to travel or to return to work assuming that they are protected against re-infection,” the WHO said.

“There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection,” it said.


Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who/no-evidence-that-recovered-covid-19-patients-cannot-be-reinfected-who-idUSKCN2270FB

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[Loki Liesmith]

1. They almost certainly are immune for some time

[Ferrets are Cool]

2. Source?

[janterry]

13. just about every one thinks that it will confer some immunity

In this video, Fauci also says he thinks so. For how long? We don't know. Probably more than a year - perhaps a few.

So, no - there is no proof. But most experts think so

[Ferrets are Cool]

33. Well, I will go with the WHO, but that's just me

[Warpy]

37. Then go with "No evidence that anyone CAN be reinfected"

If there were zero immunity, people would simply die without getting better, shedding virus until they are cremated or planted. That isn't happening, people are getting better and virus is clearing.

MERS, a coronavirus in the Middle East that surface about the time SARS did, is said to have only a 2 year immunity. However, I haven't seen a single documented case of it in the literature.

Headlines like the OP that editors use to scare people and sell papers make me furious.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Not necessarily. One of the causes of the common cold is a coronavirus.

There is no immunity from the common cold. We will have to wait and see whether the same is true of COVID-19, but it's far too soon to know. They are just warning that it's premature to assume there is immunity without more study.

[SharonAnn]

10. The "common cold" is a multitude of varieties. One may be immune to some, but probably not all.

[LeftInTX]

23. Colds are also caused by rhinoviruses and adenoviruses

From Wikipedia:

The common cold is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. The most commonly implicated virus is a rhinovirus (30–80%), a type of picornavirus with 99 known serotypes.[29][30] Other commonly implicated viruses include human coronaviruses (≈ 15%),[31][32] influenza viruses (10–15%),[33] adenoviruses (5%),[33] human respiratory syncytial virus (orthopneumovirus), enteroviruses other than rhinoviruses, human parainfluenza viruses, and human metapneumovirus.[34] Frequently more than one virus is present.[35] In total, more than 200 viral types are associated with colds.[3]

I believe there is temporary immunity to the flu, which is usually a coronavirus.

[Warpy]

24. That's because colds are caused by so many different bugs

A cold vaccine for coronavirus would not immunize against other rhinovirus. It's why little kids have runny noses more often than they don't and why adults start having fewer as the age, immunity to multiple species.

[Igel]

27. I'll nuance what you said.

There *is* immunity from the various viruses the cause a common cold.

However, it's not long lasting. You won't be reinfected the same cold season, but a couple of years later you can catch the same cold again, and again gain short-lived immunity.

The whole "colds are a wide range of viruses" thing is true, but not 100% of the problem.

[janterry]

4. exactly

evidence is the use of antibodies to save others.

[Fiendish Thingy]

5. "Currently no evidence" doesn't mean "never will be evidence" nt

[Voltaire2]

17. Right it means currently there is no evidence.

So basing a policy on the evidence less assertion that infection confers immunity is, for now, engaging in wishful thinking.

[Fiendish Thingy]

25. Do you have any other examples of viruses where infection does not create even temporary immunity

My wife is a medical technologist, and she couldn’t think of any.

[GeorgeGist]

29. HIV

[Fiendish Thingy]

31. Well, obviously, HIV is an immunodeficiency virus

I was wondering about respiratory viruses, etc.

[USALiberal]

22. LOL, yes, we can all understand! nt

[MosheFeingold]

42. Correct

They are speaking scientist, not reporter.

In all probability, people that have had the disease can’t get it — for a long while.

Hence why treatment with blood plasma seems to work.

What the scientist would require would be infection and reexposure over a a period of years. That’s probably going to happen with health care providers, but it’s still not the double blind peer reviewed study of a couple thousand people the pin head standard requires.

People need to understand this when it comes to reading the articles. Reporters know people are scared so they (either by stupidity or intentional deceit) take articles or comments from the pin head world and misstate the actual meaning.

[yaesu]

6. fox news & its brother, the nation review, backed by deep pocket repukes are pushing

for herd immunity and state sponsored russian roulette

[Maraya1969]

7. Then how the Hell is a vaccine going to work?

[oldsoftie]

9. Vaccines only "help" with these types of viruses. These arent like Polio & Smallpox

Two different families of virus

Remember how you are told when you get a flu shot, "well you MAY still get the flu, but if you do this should make it less severe"

[oldsoftie]

8. Well, you can get the flu twice, so why would this Coronavirus be any different.

We need more testing.
The places where the most testing is being done is showing a far wider infection rate. But its also lowering the death rate far below what we thought it would be at the beginning.
The more we test, the more we learn.

[janterry]

15. Not quite

https://www.livescience.com/61623-flu-twice-in-one-season.html

Experts say it is possible to catch the flu twice in one season. That's because there are multiple strains of flu viruses circulating at any one time, said Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious-disease specialist at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville. So getting sick with one strain of flu won't necessarily protect you from a different strain.

Likewise, most experts think that catching covid-19 and recovering will confer some immunity (a year or more). No, we have no proof. But we sure think so (see video w/Fauci on JAMA network - posted upthread).

[oldsoftie]

34. But there are already diffferent dtrains of Covid out there. MAybe thats what they're getting. nt

[Dopers_Greed]

12. There goes the right-wing's "re-open everything to develop herd immunity" argument

[forthemiddle]

18. There's no cure, or no immunity so we have to stay on Lockdown forever

Isn’t going to fly either.

We already see the rumblings of “No more lockdowns”, even in more liberal states like California, I can’t imagine people will put up with more than a few more months of this.

[Crowman2009]

19. Those were also funded by RW/con astroturf groups.

Just because there are blue states like California, doesn't mean their aren't a few screwballs scattered around the area.

[forthemiddle]

20. I just saw the pictures of the beaches

I can’t believe everyone in those pictures were conservatives, but maybe I’m wrong.

[Crowman2009]

21. There's also the non-affiliated crowd that cares more about what the Kardashians are up to than..

...the reality around them demographic to consider. I almost forgot about those idiots.

[Steelrolled]

32. No, you are right

You can't put a simple liberal/conservative tag on behavior, the world doesn't work that way.

[a la izquierda]

30. I'm no right winger...

And I’m sure as fuck not staying in my house forever.
Sorry but that’s not life.

[oldsoftie]

35. And your view is growing stringer every day

Google Dr Erickson covid update. Two california doctors talking about the data they've examined and their opinions

[a la izquierda]

36. I'm not saying fling open the gates tomorrow.

I’m saying shelter in place until a vaccine or cure just isn’t possible. There may never BE a vaccine.

[oldsoftie]

38. Exactly. But look at the responses on other OPs about what you're saying.

Apparently a lot of folks here are think we CAN stay unemployed indefinitely.

And even if there IS a vaccine, it will be much like the current flu vaccine. It wont prevent EVERYONE from getting it. It will prevent some, or may make infections less severe. But thats the best we can probably get

[a la izquierda]

39. Sorry, I misread your tone.

Logic seems to be escaping people these days. And we're supposed to care about other people. I think we can care about people dying and also be deeply, deeply concerned about the living whose lives have been financially shattered. How many people will commit suicide as a result. How many people will be subjected to terrible violence because of the stress of uncertainty and financial ruin (disclosure: I study domestic violence as my new research project). Just because so many on DU seem to be "okay" with this lockdown doesn't mean that everyone else is or must be. I've had several arguments with friends about this eventuality. We cannot stay locked up forever. Get the hospitals to the point where they're functioning well, and then come what may; we cannot have millions here and around the globe destitute because of a virus.

And I say this as someone whose parents and other close relatives are in the "danger zone"; whose partner and his daughter have severe asthma (and live on another continent and I'd very much like to join them); and whose siblings have no health insurance. I have a comfortable job at the moment- I worry about the hundreds of staff at my university. I worry about my students who are struggling financially.

Trump fucked this up and fucked us and the world.

[oldsoftie]

40. I bet your project is going to be very revealing.

I've already heard of increased instances of domestic violence and child abuse. And I saw a post on FB pointing out something else i'd never thought of; (paraphrasing) "You're angry seeing the guy buying lumber at Lowes. But maybe that home project is whats keeping him from picking up a bottle and drinking again" And many other examples of unintended consequences.
All things I'D never considered when this started, because luckily I dont have to deal with any of them.
I agree with your points & it makes me feel better knowing that they're coming from someone obviously much better educated on the topic than I.

[EllieBC]

43. There's a simple reason for those responses.

Recently somebody did a poll in general discussion asking if people lived in apartments, condos, townhomes with a private yard, or single family detached homes. The overwhelming majority lived in single-family detached homes. More than likely in the suburbs. So those people are people of means who are not locked into a tiny space with their families and no green space. And if they live in the suburbs chances are they’re also middle class and have more than enough means and money to stay locked down for a year.

It’s simply privilege. We like to pretend that only the right has a privilege issue. We on the left have a nasty privilege issue we just pretend it doesn’t exist.

[mr_lebowski]

14. Even if they are immune (which I'd guess there will eventually be evidence for) for some time

at least ... would that by definition mean they cannot be carriers as well? I'd think when discussing 'passports' or whatnot, that would be the more important question.

[roamer65]

16. If you are reinfected, it will be less severe.

Your body more than likely generated antibodies on the first infection.

The problem will still be if you are immunocompromised.

[NNadir]

26. Actually, a piece of evidence would be an indication that recovered people become sick again.

We've had millions of cases at this point. How many of those millions have resickened?

If you don't have antibodies, you die. A primary example of this is HIV/AIDS where infected people, having their immune systems destroyed by a virus, often died from common infections.

If you get better that is evidence of antibodies and a functioning immune system.

There's a lot of rumor going around, some of it journalist rumor and some of it scientific rumor. I really don't buy that "there's no evidence."

Journalists usually mangle science. I often joke that one cannot get a degree in journalism if one has passed a college level science course. There are, I note, zero scientific references in this news item.

[Igel]

28. It's jargon.

We're used to that.

It's the same "there's no evidence of person-to-person transmission" that the Chinese and WHO (and CDC) were using in fairly late January. There was fairly strong evidence, but it was still deniable. Better to err on the side of "we haven't seen evidence that compels belief" than to say something that might be true. In that case, it would cause panic and concern that the PTB wanted to avoid, even if saying it's not just "possible" but "highly likely" might have saved a lot of lives.

In this case, they don't want to commit because if they're wrong then some action might be taken. We can be naive and say that it's because WHO is concerned about lives being lost if there is no immunity and lockdowns end with the assumption that there is. Or we can be cynical and say that as soon as things start opening up WHO's messiahship can be called into question. Or, differently cynical, that it would be horrible optics for Europe/US to be able to open up even as developing countries are still suffering (the same possibly inaccurate attribution that I lapse into sometimes with respect to the US, where urbanites object to rural locales' opening up not because of the rural areas' huge death rate but because it's simply not fair that rural areas have any benefit that urban areas don't ... asymmetrically applied, because it's a great thing when urban areas have benefits the rubes don't enjoy).

[Steelrolled]

41. With the number of people who were infected once, you'd think we'd have some idea.

It seems WHO is in some kind of funk right now. I think it would be best for them simply to say nothing, rather than make this non-announcement.

[EllieBC]

44. The problem is people "need" to have constant info.

We are a 24/7 world now. What do you mean you haven’t solved this puzzle? What do you mean you haven’t caught the bad guy? What do you mean you don’t have a cure? It’s been 15 minutes of clicking refresh you MUST have answers!

So instead they just come out with whatever they have at any given moment. Which is subject to change the next moment. Like that lovely article about the virus particles on the cruise ship 17 days later. Then the guardian came out with an article asking epidemiologists about it who stated that it was never stated if the virus particles were alive or even complete. But no one heard that and no one cared about that they just went with the first bit of information.

So you are correct. Waiting might be better.

[bronxiteforever]

45. Kick and recommend.

[BadGimp]

46. So is the Coronavirus still Fake News?

“There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection,”

[RhodeIslandOne]

47. This virus seems to be complete Russian Roulette

Affecting people in a bunch of different ways and others not at all.