Taliban enters Kabul, leaving Afghan government on brink of collapse

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: Washington Post

Taliban forces entered Kabul Sunday morning, according to a senior Afghan security official and civilian eyewitness accounts, in a move that could trigger the collapse of the national government and signal a return to power for the Islamist group two decades after the United States invaded Afghanistan. The Taliban’s lightning quick advance to the gates of the Afghan capital came as helicopters landed at the U.S. Embassy early Sunday and armored diplomatic vehicles were seen leaving the area around the compound, the Associated Press reported.

Diplomats scrambled to destroy sensitive documents, sending smoke from the embassy’s roof, the AP said, citing anonymous U.S. military officials. Mere hours before, the Taliban had captured the city of Jalalabad, adding the eastern provincial capital to the large swaths of country the militants now control. The fall came just hours after the Taliban seized Mazar-e Sharif — a northern city long seen as an anti-Taliban stronghold — leaving the capital, for now, as the last major urban area under the central government’s authority.

While the U.S. Embassy was still functioning as of early Sunday, two unnamed U.S. officials told Reuters that some diplomats had begun withdrawing and “a majority of the staff are ready to leave.”The rapid disintegration of security in the country has prompted the revision of an already stark intelligence assessment predicting Kabul could be overrun within six to 12 months of the U.S. military departing, The Washington Post reported.

The State Department could not immediately be reached for comment. Department spokesman Ned Price said Thursday that the departure of Americans from the embassy was “not an evacuation,” but rather “a reduction in the size of our civilian footprint.” He declined to disclose how many U.S. government personnel were among the roughly 4,000 people working at the diplomatic mission.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/15/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-embassy-jalalabad/

[LittleGirl]

1. They have had 20 years

To form a government and military and we’re done. Over and out. See you bye.
All the best.

[secondwind]

2. We've been at the 38th parallel way longer.

I truly feel for the women and girls.

[LittleGirl]

7. I have great hope that since the women have been educated

They will Fight Back!

[Skittles]

14. you really don't get how it works, do you

[LittleGirl]

15. Look, I'm a pacifist so I don't believe violence

Is the answer. They keep saying that the women will suffer and I agree unless they fight back.

[Turbineguy]

27. The Taliban operates

in the year 1398. But with cars and automatic weapons.

[AZ8theist]

16. Not a prayer.

The females will forever be encased in bags and beaten for the slightest transgression.

The Taliban are INCREDIBLY UNEVOLVED as humans.....

[LittleGirl]

18. Isn't that awful?

They don’t know any better in the rural areas but those that were allowed to go to school will have a chance. A major women’s movement will change the course of their future, if only they are brave enough to stand up against these religious fanatics.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

20. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

[LittleGirl]

21. To my response

My spouse said that the taliban will kill the women. I replied, They can’t kill them all, they won’t have any to rape if they kill them.

He was speechless.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

23. I'm not a pacifist. I favor non-aggression...but...

I hope and pray for the strength and determination of the sane warriors among the remaining people. Make no mistake many women have the spirit of a warrior.

"It’s better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life." - Nurse Elizabeth Kenny

I suggest that some of those useless filth taliban scum that fall asleep next to their warrior "wives" will never wake up. I hope it's all of them.

[LittleGirl]

24. I love your vision! Eom

[ancianita]

28. If only? Still a chance? The 'brave enough' are murdered - that formula has driven out empires.

The educated women's only chance in Afghanistan is to flee across uncontrolled border lands.

[AZ8theist]

33. Exactly.

Any woman brave enough to say anything will be murdered to restore "honor".

[ancianita]

34. And every single woman has a male minder in Islam, so there is no escaping that is undetected.

[JI7]

3. They did form a govt and military. But too many of their soldiers walked away

[LittleGirl]

6. That's why we had to leave! Eom

[paleotn]

17. From a government that was corrupt much of the time.

Bad situation all around. And no amount of "nation building" was going to change it.

[BumRushDaShow]

4. I would consider them like Libya (and others)

where for literally hundreds to upwards of a thousand years, "governance" and loyalty was to the "clan" (and/or ethnic group) who resided on designated "ancestral lands". And after WW1 and WW2, when borders were artificially drawn by Europeans to create the current countries, they never accepted it, and still don't. That area that currently borders Pakistan and Afghanistan is the prime example in this case. Similarly Kurdistan, between Iraq and Turkey. You even have the locals' non-recognition of borders between Sierra Leone and Liberia in West Africa.

In the Taliban's case, they use religion to "rally" a military (with outside help) across clans, to rule areas that encompass other clans' lands.

[LittleGirl]

5. Sounds like American Christians eom

[cstanleytech]

10. Probably not to far off the mark. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

11. The religion becomes a way to find and/or force "commonality" across clans/ethnic groups

which is why theocracies seem to be one of the methods used for control of a region.

You can see that with Nigeria, where the north is Muslim and the south is Christian, and there is that clash zone between those areas. You also see that with Ireland, with the Catholic south and Protestant north.

[localroger]

19. We have the British to blame for much of this

When their colonial system was collapsing, the British drew a lot of those borders to deliberately create the current pattern of chaos so that nobody would become too powerful in the wake of their withdrawal. That's why India and Pakistan have such a contentious relationship, and why the Kurds are a minority in three different countries instead of having one of their own. This was done very coldly and deliberately to screw the locals as the empire withdrew.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. The book "A Peace to End all Piece"

by David Fromkin, was literally like the light bulb for me back when the book came out and I heard the author on one of the radio talk shows while he was doing a book tour.



The Ottoman Empire was essentially supplanted after WW1 with a Eurocentric "partitioning" effort, leading to the nightmare that we see today - not just there but also on the continent of Africa as colonies were finally given up. I suppose it was an effort to shoe-horn those societies into a Parliamentary-style "democracy" that was the antithesis of how they operated for thousands of years.

[ancianita]

29. Thank you. It's the 'thousands of years' cultures that we keep thinking we can influence.

[BumRushDaShow]

30. You had geographic locations

that had many small (herditary) "kingdoms" and when Islam came around, some areas formed "caliphates" out of those, with religious "leaders" who replaced the "kings", but often could trace back to the originator of the religion (a number of Christian sects do the same with their priests tracing themselves back to the disciples through their ordinations). And among these, they might have had a particular "leader" who decided to find a way to get more "resources" and eventually "expanded" into other regions (often by military might) in order to form an "empire". In a way, the federal form of government that we have here mimics it somewhat with "regionalism' (states), but then has the overarching "national" entity (empire) over that.

Many other societies developed "Councils of Elders" to advise on the well-being and protection of the community, although this was something that seemed to only work with the more rural locations.

[ancianita]

35. And these 'Islamic Republic' proxies are for theocracies with "emirs," descendants of Muhammad,

that have lasted centuries longer than our 'consent of the governed' systems which -- apart from religious structures that train generations into consent through 'faith' -- have had to manufacture or manipulate consent, and haggle over what reality is.

Bertrand Russell was right. We've had the 'methods of education,' but many before us have used and abused education to create a society too weak to withstand long term tribal belief structures.

[BumRushDaShow]

36. "descendants of Muhammad"

or his daughter - which is what caused the split between the Shia and Sunni!

Their system only came about in the 700s AD although but before then, you had societies going back thousands of years with self-anointed "rulers" who were purportedly "sanctioned" by whatever "gods or goddesses" were en vogue at the time.

Cultures are difficult to change for sure and I think the average person, whether thousands of years ago or today, are content to "let someone else do the hard work" as long as they have a roof over their head and food in their belly". But there will always be that fractional few who will oblige in "doing the work" to "take control" (and/or manipulate), whether they are true leaders or despots.

[ancianita]

38. Right! A centuries' long sectarian war after earlier, much older societies.

Yes, you lay out the human inertia. Going forward, those who adapt to what will amount to living with constant transition, will teach a whole new set of values to descendants.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Afghans linked to British beg: Please help save our lives from Taliban

But the Taliban have targeted Afghans with broader links to the western effort in their country. The US has effectively recognised that by widening its refugee visa scheme for Afghans to include employees of US-based NGOs, US-funded projects and others earlier this month.
...
Taliban fighters this week arrived at the home of one man who worked on a UK government-funded project, asking for him by name. Hassan* had fled his home city three days before the militants seized it, and his father told them he had gone abroad for medical treatment. The fighters still forced their way into the house and searched every room.
...
“It seems, from our effort to assist former staff seeking visas, that the government’s policy draws a distinction between locally engaged personnel who worked directly for (the government), and those who worked for contractors providing services to and delivering projects on behalf of the (government),” said Dan Pimlott, director at Adam Smith International, who was involved in a number of the company’s UK-funded projects in Afghanistan. “Sadly, this is a distinction that the Taliban are not going to draw.”

Also at risk are dozens of people who worked for the British Council, which promotes British culture and English language teaching, their former colleagues say.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/afghans-linked-to-british-beg-please-help-save-our-lives-from-taliban

It's going to be a nightmare. No matter how much the Taliban say now they're holding back, it's clear that many among them are eager to punish anyone deviating from their totalitarianism. Women and anyone who has worked with the West are in huge danger.

[cstanleytech]

9. Trying to impose change there was a mistake the Soviets learned that the Republican party failed to.

[SunSeeker]

13. Yup, the fate of Soviet-supported President Najibullah now awaits Ghani.

After the Soviets left, the Taliban captured Najibullah, tortured him, his testicles and penis were cut off and paraded around on sticks, and his body was dragged behind a jeep, then left hanging from a lamppost in a public square filled with jubilating Taliban.
https://www.vqronline.org/web-exclusive/revisiting-afghanistan-conversation-najibullah

[Berlin Expat]

12. Kabul has capitulated

BREAKING — The Afghan president Ghani is relinquishing power and an interim government led by Taliban is formed — Al Arabiya— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) August 15, 2021

[turbinetree]

25. 2001 who was in power in this country.........

all they had to do was go into Tora Bora and get the asshole who is now dead, but nope, they wanted to go into Iraq and the asshole that was in Tora Bora went to Pakistan....and now this.....

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. More indications the president has resigned, and Taliban entering Kabul

Abdullah Abdullah, head of the High Council for National Reconciliation, has posted a video to Facebook confirming that the Afghan president, Ashraf Ghani, has left the country.

He has asked people to keep calm and for the Afghan security forces to cooperate in ensuring security.

Link to tweet

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/15/afghanistan-taliban-close-in-on-kabul-as-last-government-stronghold-in-north-falls?page=with:block-61191f758f08aeaec2f1fd13#block-61191f758f08aeaec2f1fd13

A Taliban spokesman has confirmed that Taliban fighters have entered the city in response to a “law and order issue”.

Journalists on the ground including former Wall Street Journal reporter Habib Khan have confirmed the Taliban will enter the city in order to “control the chaos”

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/15/afghanistan-taliban-close-in-on-kabul-as-last-government-stronghold-in-north-falls?page=with:block-6119208b8f08d30d155024b6#block-6119208b8f08d30d155024b6

[AZLD4Candidate]

32. The US supported Afghani government shares a lot in common with the US supported South

Vietnamese government. . .weak, puppet-like, corrupt, self-interested, and a house of cards. The Afghan government wholeheartedly supported the same US action that the South Vietnamese supported. . .have a weak military to do little and let the US military fight their civil war for them.

Karzi and Diem were one and the same, just different decades and countries.

These policies always fail because once the supporter begins to withdraw, people turn on the supported government, South Korea being an exception due to the brutality of the Japanese for the 47 years prior.

This is the history that cannot be disputed.

[Steelrolled]

39. What is ironic is that if there was a legitimate government

during the 20 years the US was in Afghanistan, it would the Taliban. Just had to wait for the Americans to leave before things would go back to normal.

[Vogon_Glory]

41. The comparison may be apt, BUT

I remember that the ARVN put up more of a fight against the North than these guys did against the Taliban.

[AZLD4Candidate]

43. Not after 1973

They still fought, but the resolve wasn't as strong as before since they had to do the fighting and not the US army.

[EarthFirst]

37. "Not an evacuation" but rather "a reduction in the size of our civilian footprint."

I hate this newspeak regardless of who is presenting it.

[Vogon_Glory]

40. Afghanistan versus South Vietnam

I’m old enough to remember the collapse of South Vietnam, and there are some interesting comparisons.

The South Vietnamese kept fighting after the US ended direct military support. The Afghans we supported didn’t.

The US had pulled the plug on funding the South Vietnamese military before Saigon fell. I don’t recall Biden doing the same with the ousted Afghanistan government. The Afghans were still getting support. They folded anyway.

Even as the Hanoi government’s army moved south and captured one part of South Vietnam after another, in some places the South Vietnamese continued to fight. By contrast, the former Afghan government’s soldiers seem to have dropped their gear and ran.


The ousted Afghans had 20 effing years to get their act together—and folded like a card house.

If I may be rude: the pace the ousted Afghan government fell made the former Republic of Vietnam look like Winston Churchill and the Battle of Britain.

Who lost Afghanistan: the ousted Afghan government!

[orangecrush]

42. God help the women.