Butler County (Ohio) judge orders West Chester Hospital to treat COVID-19 patient with ivermectin

[Mrs. Overall]

Source: Cincinnati Enquirer

A suburban Cincinnati woman, whose husband has been on a ventilator at West Chester Hospital with COVID-19, won a court order forcing the hospital to treat her husband's novel coronavirus infection with an antiparasitic treatment commonly used for livestock.

The case is one of a handful nationwide where courts have sided with family members and forced doctors to use ivermectin, which is unproven in the treatment of COVID-19 and is not recommended by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Jeffrey Smith, 51, came down with COVID-19 in early July and has been in the intensive care unit at the UC Health-run hospital in Butler County for weeks. His wife, Julie Smith, asked on Aug. 20 for the emergency order for the use of ivermectin in Butler County Common Pleas Court.

Judge Gregory Howard gave the go-ahead on Aug. 23 to Dr. Fred Wagshul's prescription of 30 milligrams of ivermectin daily for three weeks, as requested by his wife. Julie Smith is the guardian for her husband, court documents show.

Read more: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/08/30/ivermectin-lawsuit-butler-county-judge-orders-hospital-treat-covid-19-patient-drug/5647432001/

[Hugh_Lebowski]

1. Unbelievable. So if a guardian asks for cyanide pills to be given because of some shit

they read on the internet, will a judge step in and order the hospital to comply with that?

[NurseJackie]

55. Shhh! Careful... some anti-vaxxer might hear you and try it out. Well, on second though...

... perhaps... louder?

Obviously it's a death-cult, and the sooner they are allowed to die, then the sooner they'll stop spreading it to the unwilling victims (and the less likely they'll be serving as human incubation chambers for the next mutation variation.)

[Hugh_Lebowski]

59. It's funny Jackie sometimes you and vigorously disagree, and other times ...

It's like you read my mind

[FarPoint]

64. I struggle to understand if the ICU physician will follow a Court Order...

Last edited Mon Aug 30, 2021, 04:52 PM - Edit history (2)

for this illogical, not clinically indicated medication....The patient is already critical as it is....What a horrible position for any physician.

This shameful pulmonologist, Dr. Fred Wagshul...he practices in Dayton and I do not believe he is part of West Chester Hospital system.... He has also made questionable recommendations to a post-covid-19 nurse who was intubated/ in ICU sent from Dayton to University of Cincinnati last September and still not back to work yet....He told her not to get the covid-19 vaccine!!!! My jaw dropped that day....she didn't get it either...

[Normanart]

2. How is this possible?

What kind of health care system allows judges to prescribe medication?
On edit
After reading the article, it seems that the prescription was written by a doctor (whacko promoter of ivermectin), and it was the hospital that was ordered to provide the treatment. Bizarro world.

[Escurumbele]

12. The judge is not prescribing, the family requested it and he allowed them to get it from doctors

Better to have it done while the observation of doctors than not.

[forgotmylogin]

17. Is it possible that horse de-wormer was not on the insurance formulary so they had to

request it be covered?

[PatSeg]

25. The medication has been used on humans,

but obviously it has not been prescribed for COVID.

[forgotmylogin]

27. Makes sense n/t

[HUAJIAO]

51. Yes, on millions of humans for decades and has been proven to be safe

in the proper prescribed doses. It has been used to treat river blindness and intestinal roundworm infection, among other issues..


NB:
I am NOT in this post saying anything about its use for Covid-19 !!!!

[PatSeg]

62. In some ways, it is like a rerun

of hydroxychloroquine. People who needed it for other illnesses like lupus, were often unable to get it, because gullible people believed Trump and some whacko doctors on the Internet. This is probably worse, because it can be purchased easily for animals, without a prescription at a feed store.

[mpcamb]

104. Right! Ask the judge if a light bulb up his ass might help too. trump said it might.

[SayitAintSo]

102. God bless you for this post !

You are so right about the Democrats looking like damn fools by getting the simple facts wrong on Ivermectin and other issues surrounding the covid crisis.

[HUAJIAO]

108. maybe I actually have a few supporters here.

I have literally been afraid to even type the word here. The 2 other times I did my post was hidden for being comnspiracy theory or repeating right-wing talking points, etc . (One time it was re-instated, yay for truth!)

[oldsoftie]

114. Well, its apparently happened again.

But then you can get a hide for pretty much ANYTHING

[SayitAintSo]

117. No shit...

I saw nothing at all wrong with his post. A voice of reason in a sea of willful ignorance, when you have the Internet available for anybody that's not too lazy to look up some basic facts. There is a narrow lane that a few of us travel in concert with those from the other tribes, based on science, reason and a fundamental fear of authoritarian encroachment that fear porn is pushing 'the herd' towards rapidly.

[HUAJIAO]

121. Bravo

[HUAJIAO]

119. Right you are... better toe the line.... It didn't used to be this way years ago,

back when I had a different handle....

[oldsoftie]

125. Tell me about it.

Everyone here talks about the trump humpers being so sensitive, which they are, but actual facts that arent popular can get a hide here in a snap!

[aggiesal]

106. Do you have any numbers on how Ivermectin ...

has worked in Mexico & India?
If there is a link, can you provide that as well?

Thanks.

[SayitAintSo]

118. You'll have to do your own research

If anyone tries to respond they will be alerted upon and their post removed... you saw it here. Doesn't that give you pause?

The rampant censorship scares me far more than covid.

[aggiesal]

122. No I shouldn't have to do my own research ...

The poster made the statement, they should provide a link that backs up their statement.
Also it allows us to see what documentation/website they're getting their info from.

Otherwise it's considered a baseless statement.

This response is not worthy of being alerted to.
I genuinely want to see links based on their statement.

****************************************
Sorry, I just notice that this response is not from the person I was requesting the link.
I changed the response to make a 3rd party response.

[HUAJIAO]

107. Well said....

[jmowreader]

96. There are pills of this drug

I don’t think they ordered the hospital to go to Tractor Supply for it.

[mpcamb]

103. Families, judges? They don't get to prescribe medical treatment.

And there are good reasons for that.

[ashredux]

13. That was the first thought in my mind

[brush]

54. I doubt it'll happen. The judge's ruling is nuts. No other court...

will uphold it.

[FarPoint]

76. West Chester Hospital is an extension of

The University of Cincinnati.....so, their lawyers will be mighty....

[Steelrolled]

127. I doubt anyone is going to appeal this.

The doctor(s) need to administer the drug ASAP (aka CYA).

[FarPoint]

128. They didn't...

apparently he has has a weeks worth already....

[RicROC]

110. In addition to the ruling,

I wish the judge should have added, that every member of the patient's family MUST become vaccinated. Logic of that would be the family will not need treatment if they were properly vax'd and therefore, will have no standing in approaching the legal community on medical matters.

[FarPoint]

72. That county is Trumpland...

Terrifying...I can not feel safe driving thru some of that area....

[NYC Liberal]

3. Should be required to waive any treatment for issues caused by this.

[PortTack]

41. Even with that any physician or nurse that goes along with this can still be held accountable

That judges order is full of holes ...it’s pathetic!

A physician cannot order drugs for a hospitalized patient that doesn’t have admitting rights at said hospital. The guy was an online kook. If they order or administer the drug they will end up being in big trouble. Giving even the human form of a drug, unproven for a particular use is going to find the physicians and nurses in front of review boards for sanctions or possible loss of license

if side effects or loss of life occur, they would have a difficult time proving it wasn’t from the drug. these special kinds of idiots are always the first to cry foul.

As a medical professional I would either refuse, or resign from the case, or quit.

[FarPoint]

74. The ICU physicians and hospital...

they need to lawyer up!

[Jetheels]

4. The horse has left the barn. Nt

[leftieNanner]

8. These jokes just write themselves, don't they? nt

[LudwigPastorius]

20. "Why the long face? Are you sad or just dosing yourself with horse wormer?"

[leftieNanner]

30. "Why don't you just trot off to the restroom

and take care of that little problem."

[LudwigPastorius]

33. ...

[leftieNanner]

36. Well now

You are definitely "ahead" in this contest.

[littlemissmartypants]

52. Whatever that entails.

[brush]

57. You guys are pretty good with the horse comebacks.

Mind my I neighing in?

[LudwigPastorius]

58. Neigh.

You’ll beat me by a nose.

(I’ve got a feeling we could be at this furlong time.)

[Jetheels]

48. Welp, know why tfg referred to himself as a

stable genius.

[NurseJackie]

56. I always thought he was a neigh-sayer.

[speak easy]

115. He's full of it.

[NurseJackie]

116. Of-course, of-course! 🎵

[speak easy]

123. i-n v - e - r

[moose65]

71. Yep

I'll toss in my favorite line from "The Birdcage," spoken by Robin Williams:

"It's like riding a psychotic horse towards a burning stable."

[onecaliberal]

5. Discharge him and let his wife treat him at home.

[h2ebits]

6. Mind boggling. . . .just mind boggling

I am speechless that this crap is being allowed to happen.

[grumpyduck]

7. There's a medical-grade ivermectin

useful for tropical diseases and parasites, but it doesn't work on viruses.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

Hopefully that's what the doctor prescribed (probably while gritting his teeth).

[LiberalArkie]

21. The human grade does indeed kill the Covid-19 in the Petri dish, but the dosage to accomplish it

is too high to be safe for humans.

[grumpyduck]

32. Thsnks!

[Traildogbob]

44. So does bleach!

[PortTack]

47. Ivermectin has no ability to cross the cell wall lipid barrier even in high doses

It does kill the virus invitro. Essentially that means any virus floating around in your mouth or nasopharynx would be affected, but this is not where the viruses live or replicate, that happens intracellularly.

If the virus could be killed or damaged intercellularly, (inbetween or around the cells) it would never have been able to become a pandemic level killer

[NH Ethylene]

80. That's interesting to know.

It explains where this belief in ivermectin came from.

[Jopin Klobe]

9. State ordered human medical experimentation ...

... wow ... that brings back memories ...

[Escurumbele]

10. I for one am interested to find out what the outcome of the treatment for this person is.

We do need to find out if the person gets better with the treatment, if it works then it works, if it doesn't then it doesn't but it is important to know the truth.

We here at DU are all for the truth right? Well, lets find out what the truth is about "ivermectin" treating people with COVID.

I am not one to agree with people taking horse medicine without consulting a doctor, but if it does work then it is something we all need to know, the goal is to save lives, whether you do it with a horse medicine or not. And it it does work the Merck needs to find out how they change the medicine to make it more human applicable, or not...

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

18. This looks like a last ditch attempt to do something...

... he has been sick with CV-45 since in July and is still in ICU, obviously nothing else is working, the desperate wife is reaching for straws. Personally, I think the guy would have a much better outlook if he were to be fed kale soup, probably in a chicken broth.

[NH Ethylene]

81. Poor woman; I'd probably be frantic for alternative treatments too.

And if it's safely used on humans for other purposes, why not? It's unlikely to help, but no harm will be done.

[crimycarny]

92. Thank you for the empathy

I read the article and I felt the woman's desperation. The doctors have tried remdesivir, steroids, and pretty much every other form of treatment and her husband continues to deteriorate. She basically has no other option but to watch him die, so why not allow her this Hail Mary pass, if only for her own peace of mind that she has tried everything? Ivermectin is safe when taken at the prescribed doses. Sure, it's very unlikely to make any difference but at least this woman won't wonder 'what if?'. I, for one, have no issue with her being allowed to try everything available. It's not my husband, it's hers.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

94. Yep...

... but I still say kale soup made with chicken broth would be much more therapeutic and restorative.

[crimycarny]

97. Yes you can

But since he is on a ventilator your point is obviously snark. To each his own I guess. I'm just grateful I'm not in that woman's desperate state where she is willing to grasp onto the slightest hope to save her husband. I have a friend whose daughter is dying from AML and all that is left is a Clinical Trial. Guess your "humor" escapes me.

[democrattotheend]

99. Very well said

I don't know why there is so much ideological polarization around Ivermectin. People on the right are convinced it's a miracle cure and a lot of people on this site and in real life seem convinced it's poison, which it is not when prescribed by a doctor in human doses. Like you said, if nothing else, it will give the poor wife peace of mind that they tried everything.

[Yonnie3]

31. Ivermectin is already approved and available for human use.

It is just not approved for Covid treatment, but rather for some specific parasites.

[oldsoftie]

50. I agree. Its their choice & it IS prescribed.

If he's been on a vent its already getting to be last-ditch efforts. So have at it. I had heard that even in the rare case when this DOES work its when given early on.
We'll see.

[democrattotheend]

98. I agree

From what I understand, Ivermectin has been around for a long time and has been thoroughly tested for use in humans, just not as a treatment for COVID. In that condition I think it makes sense to try almost anything, although I have heard that to the extent it is effective at all, Ivermectin is mostly effective if given early on. The problem is many doctors won't prescribe it or pharmacists won't fill the prescriptions, so people are taking matters into their own hands by getting Ivermectin in doses intended for animals.

[Merlot]

53. No, we're not waiting to find out the outcome.

Doctors know the outcome. If there was any chance this worked everyone would be all over it - Merrick (the maker) and doctors.

[NoMoreRepugs]

63. Bingo - we have a winner!!

[hamsterjill]

78. I agree.

I want to know the outcome for this patient. It appears that his circumstances are dire and this is, as another poster mentioned, a last ditch effort. If there’s nothing to lose, then I believe his family should be allowed to have him treated. I don’t have to agree with it. If it helps, then we will all benefit.

I’m not advocating ivermectin as a COVID treatment. But if there’s something to be gained from it, then let’s investigate it. If it is as expected with no benefits and or is harmful, then we will have more evidence with this case to support they theory.

There is a physician in my area who, at the beginning of the pandemic, was treating patients with melatonin. I thought he was a nut case. But his credentials were quite impressive. I didn’t see how melatonin could help someone with COVID, but there are actually arguments for its use.

Let the family try everything

[I_UndergroundPanther]

82. Hope these idiots

Won't take all the melatonin off the shelves because I need it to sleep.

[hamsterjill]

85. Agreed. I use it on occasion, too.

But there is some interest in it for COVID. That doesn’t mean I’m relying on it. But I like that different approaches are investigated.

Here’s an older article:

https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/melatonin-a-promising-candidate-for-prevention-and-treatment-of-covid-19/amp/

[oldsoftie]

113. I still see people recommending Melatonin.

Havent read anything on WHY.

[SarcasticSatyr]

112. I hardly think a sample size of one is going to prove much ....

one way or the other ...

[Steelrolled]

126. I really really hope he recovers.

I've had my share of health issues, and I feel joy for every person that recovers from serious illness.

Of course the public reaction to a recovery in this case would be interesting to say the least. I think it would make me shake my head and smile.

[ashredux]

11. This isn't a slippery slope, it's an ice covered downhill

[elias7]

14. A judge could rule based on medical expert advice, but on the advice of Facebook?

This is a decision that cannot hold up to any intelligent scrutiny. Oh, wait…

[onetexan]

83. damn judge needs his law license revoked & banned from ever practicing again

[3auld6phart]

15. ????

An judge with a Medical degree.Who’d a thunk.

[LudwigPastorius]

16. What the fuckshit?

So, if I petitioned this judge to have the hospital engage in a little bloodletting, inject me with mercury, apply leeches, or any other form of quackery, he would order it?

Christ, have we really devolved into being this fucking stupid as a society now? It's like 4 years of Trump and the GOP in charge has given everyone brain cancer or something.

[2naSalit]

73. It's like we were subjected to Goof Gas...

Listen to the narration...

I can only imagine that fucks noose uses some form of this.

[LudwigPastorius]

88. "Goof gas" indeed.

I've always meant to read this book. It's well past time.

[2naSalit]

90. Looks like a worthy read...

Think I'll look into it too.

[Diamond_Dog]

19. Every day

The news becomes more and more unbelievable.

[Xoan]

22. Judge is a coward.

[bucolic_frolic]

23. Get the government off our backs

and into our veins.

Ivermectin such a treat
Ivermectin can't be beat
Ivermection on your feet
Whoops .................

[Joinfortmill]

24. Judge needs to be disbarred.

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

68. The judge certainly seems to be completely lacking

any good horse sense.

[Cryptoad]

26. What ever happen to the Oathe

First do no Harm.....

[Denvermosaic]

28. What's next, Hydroxychloroquine, bleach? I hope his insurance will not cover this idiocy.

[70sEraVet]

91. And if he does die, can his life insurance company use that treatment

as justification to deny payout? A risky, unproven treatment, that may have resulted in their client's demise?

[Cryptoad]

29. This is a setup,,,

Tehy are now getting ready to take him off teh ventilator...now they will claim the worming med cured him!

[Jon King]

34. There are a few studies that do say human Ivermectin is effective vs Covid.

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx


No use having a closed mind. More studies are needed. But taking the horse version is insanity.

[Kali]

70. ...

[HUAJIAO]

109. There actually are many studies.... But nevertheless---- From your link---

"Conclusions:
Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally."

I first learned about the efficacy of ivermectin in treating cov-19 as a prophylaxis and after infection in November 2020.
However I am literally afraid to even type the word on DU......for fear of being ridiculed, insulted. and I have had 2 posts hidden....(One of which I worded terribly, I will admit)

Glad to see at least some acknowledgement...

[Vinca]

35. I don't see how a judge can possibly order a doctor to commit malpractice. That's crazy.

I hope the hospital takes this to a higher court because that judge is nuts.

[Wingus Dingus]

37. If he's circling the drain, I guess it doesn't matter, they're just

throwing spaghetti at the wall. On edit--did monoclonal antibody therapy not work, or was he too late for it?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

38. I thought euthanasia was against the law.

[Mr.Bill]

39. When judges start telling doctors what to do,

our medical system is gone. Perhaps this judge would like to have a doctor come run his courtroom.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

40. Hey, judge, I read on the internet that morphine at home works to treat covid

and my Doctor won't let me use this treatment thereby taking away my self will and freedom!

[sakabatou]

42. *facedesk*

[Mr. Evil]

43. If I was the Dr. on this case,

I'd simply say to the judge, "Fine. You ordered it, you come to the hospital and administer it." I know it's the human version but, it is not applicable for viral infection.

I like what Hugh Lebowski said at the top. "Unbelievable. So if a guardian asks for cyanide pills to be given because of some shit they read on the internet, will a judge step in and order the hospital to comply with that?"

So, if the patient dies from this debacle, can or will the guardian sue the judge for malpractice?

[airmid]

45. Ohio...the Florida of North

[catbyte]

46. Okay, MAGAts & vax resistors, why hold out for "FDA approval" of the vaccine but you go all in

on a cockamamie "cure" that's not FDA-approved?

[SarcasticSatyr]

49. Unreal ....

I would definitely make the wife sign a waver, and make damn sure to indicate it was being done against the attending doctor's medical advice.

[DallasNE]

60. Another Example Of America Coming Apart At The Seams

How do we get doctors that prescribe medicine that has not been approved. It seems that doctor should be disciplined. And what about a Judge that orders the prescription to be filled? What legal basis is there for this order. Where is the science?

When you open the article it speaks of limited trials for Ivermectin. What is the basis for such trials beginning. This seems like "freedom" run amok. Someone needs to set the brakes, not hit the gas pedal. It is all upside down and backwards. It is dysfunctional, to say the least.

[NoMoreRepugs]

61. The Hospital and Doctor should demand a Hold Harmless Agreement be signed IMO.

[DallasNE]

65. From The Article

"Judge Gregory Howard gave the go-ahead on Aug. 23 to Dr. Fred Wagshul's prescription of 30 milligrams of ivermectin daily for three weeks".

[NoMoreRepugs]

93. My bad, had to skim the article, was still working.

[Mrs. Overall]

66. After reading all of the horse puns on this thread, I misread this as "Hold Harness Agreement."

[Fiendish Thingy]

67. The Doctor was in favor of using ivermectin, the hospital administration was opposed

The doctor is a founder of a quack cure group.

Wagshul is a Dayton, Ohio-area pulmonologist who is listed as a founder of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCCA), a nonprofit that touts ivermectin as both a preventative and treatment for COVID-19. Its “How To Get Ivermectin” section includes prices and locations of pharmacies that will supply it, from Afghanistan to Fort Lauderdale to Pennsylvania to Sao Paulo, Brazil.

If I were the hospital administrator, I’d revoke the doc’s privileges at that hospital.

Imagine the liability.

[FarPoint]

75. I don't even think he has privileges' there...

Dayton area is either Kettering Hospital System of Premier Network....West Chester is not in these groups to my understanding.... I believe West Chester is part of University of Cincinnati System...

[bluestarone]

69. I'm just wondering WHEN

Will Drs. start going into court rooms and tell the judges how to do things?

[roamer65]

77. If a prescription of ivermectin gets these morons to leave the ER and go home...do it.

Then when they come back send them home again and again and again…

Maybe it will save a space in the hospital for someone smarter.

[AngryOldDem]

79. Is it a case of having nothing to lose?

Is the man so far gone that they’re willing to try anything at this point? Sounds like it.

Best of luck to him. He’ll need it.

[sarcasmo]

84. Next up, Judge Howard orders West Chester Hopsital to inject Clorox.

IDIOCRACY

[Bayard]

87. I think leeches would work better

[stillcool]

89. amazing how fast they are to latch on

to the latest drug the right-wing is pushing, but won't take the vaccine or wear a mask. Of course the wife and judge know better than the Doctor. Reminds of Terri Schiavo for some reason.

[kimbutgar]

95. The hospital needs the wife to sign a waiver saying they can't sue them if he dies

[FarPoint]

100. This anal meatus is from my town....

Local interview of the ignorant...

Doctor uses Ivermectin as an alternative method to treating COVID-19 patient:


https://dayton247now.com/news/local/doctor-uses-ivermectin-as-an-alternative-method-to-treating-covid-19-patient?fbclid=IwAR1kWDjz5x0Dk9BfY-TbINABkCosCIeCciDz5a9yMfhyiMwOcL6qcfFl9vA


DAYTON, Ohio (WKEF) —As cases of the Delta variant continue to rise so does the controversy among healthcare workers regarding alternative methods of treatment.

Ivermectin, a medication known for treating livestock is being used as a method of treatment for a local patient.

“Ivermectin is so safe,” said Dr. Fred Wagshul, medical director at Lung Center of America in Centerville. “It essentially has no drug interactions and no side effects.

51-year-old Jeffrey Smith was diagnosed with COVID-19 in July and has been fighting for his life in the ICU at West Chester Hospital.

Smith’s wife—Julie Smith—won a lawsuit to force the West Chester Hospital to treat her husband using Ivermectin.

[LudwigPastorius]

105. Wagshul was previously touting high doses of vitamin C, blood thinners, and hydroxychloroquine for..

COVID patients.

He seems to be a fan of anecdotal evidence instead of science.

[4 more years]

111. There are two groups of doctors with front line in their names.

One group of front line doctors are Quacks. The other FLCCC.net are well respected doctors in their field. They discovered a protocol for the alpha variant back in dec 2020. Way before the right wing conspiracy nuts got involved. I’m only trying to clear the air on miss information about the FLCCC.net . This group has nothing to do with the trump crowd. They are in favor of vaccinations and are all vaccinated. They follow science not the non vaccinated fanatics. . Please don’t confuse the two groups. Not pushing any protocol on here except get vaccinated and wear mask

[HUAJIAO]

120. THANK YOU. THANK YOU..

The REAL "Front Line-- FLCCC are the real deal. They know !!!

Nice to have some support...

I'm afraid to even type the word here....

[marshall]

129. I am currently taking Ivermectin for COVID

My doctor did not prescribe animal grade ivermectin. I bought it at the local pharmacy like I get anything else I am prescribed.

I got the Pfizer vaccine and booster last February. I wear a mask every single place I go. Still, I was diagnosed with COVID last Thursday.

I didn't ask for the ivermectin, but I did research it after my doctor put in the prescription. There is promising research out of India, and the drug is being used in that country as well as many others. At any rate, I decided it would do me no harm. Tomorrow I have a paramedic and nurse coming to my home to give me the monoclodal antibodies IV infusion, which is approved here.