Manchin fires back after Sanders pens op-ed in West Virginia paper

[Polybius]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Politico

Bernie Sanders has been calling on Joe Manchin to support President Joe Biden’s full agenda for weeks. On Friday night, Manchin signaled he’s had enough of that.

In response to an op-ed from Sanders (I-Vt.) published in Manchin’s hometown paper on Friday night, Manchin snapped back: “This isn’t the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what is best for them despite having no relationship to our state.”

“Congress should proceed with caution on any additional spending and I will not vote for a reckless expansion of government programs. No op-ed from a self-declared Independent socialist is going to change that,” Manchin said in a statement on Friday evening shortly after the op-ed published. Sanders caucuses with Democrats but is still technically an independent.


Sanders has taken his campaign to pass Democrats' $3.5 trillion spending proposal to media venues across the spectrum, including Fox News. Manchin has occasionally responded, albeit not in the fashion he did on Friday night. Sanders’ move to land an op-ed in Manchin’s backyard seems to have crossed the line for the West Virginia senator.

Read more: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/15/manchin-sanders-op-ed-paper-516115

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Wow.

[Walleye]

1. No relationship with his state?. It's a part of the United States, Senator

You don’t have your own little kingdom and if you did, you should be ashamed because West Virginia is doing so badly economically and educationally

[Schmice3]

3. thank you

[stopdiggin]

4. all true. and Manchin probably just went up

by multiple points in WV polling.

[Walleye]

13. Yes. But is that all he cares about. Second comes his own money. Third United States?

Can we ever expect him to put the needs of the people ahead of his own political and financial needs? It’s discouraging

[forthemiddle]

16. Senators are elected to represent their state

Not to represent the Democratic Party.
I’m not saying Manchin in right, because according to polls posted here, he might not be, but in the end Manchin doesn’t represent the United States, only West Virginia.
That is exactly how the Constitution, and the Founding Fathers wanted it to be. In fact many of them did not want political parties.

[Walleye]

18. I respectfully disagree, Senators are elected to use their judgment and do what's right for all.

I don’t think Senator McCain took a poll in his state to decide how to vote on the ACA repeal

[forthemiddle]

23. We praise McCain for going against his party

Because he thought it was the best for his State.
Yet we curse Manchin?

[Walleye]

24. It's just that I don't think Manchin is doing what is best for his state. And he hasn't explained

Leaders should lead. He should educate his constituents as to what is in the bill. As it is now it’s just political backlash.

[forthemiddle]

27. I agree with this!

I am confused that a State that voted 70%Trump also polled so overwhelmingly for this bill, but apparently they did. I don’t pretend to understand West Virginia, but Manchin seems to think he does.
My point was solely that the Senate doesn’t represent the US only the State.

[Walleye]

36. That's true. Also a part of the United States government, though

[monkeyman1]

54. he don't understand civics ! he just understands his bank account statements !

just another - " me, me , me , & all mine , screw you !! basic republican theory -101 !

[Walleye]

58. Yes that,and fossil fuels are sacred.

[True Blue American]

26. The people of West Virginia

Want this bill. It would help many out of poverty.

[Justice matters.]

53. THIS.

But Manchin's big donors don't want many out of poverty, and it shows.

[NQAS]

51. Because his actions are not what's best for his state

They run counter to the needs of his constituents and, on a broader scale, the collective needs of the country. But his positions are good for him. Period.

[Midnightwalk]

38. It's both

Vote against funding for a state after a disaster, because your state wasn’t effected? You need to represent your country.

At the same time you do have to represent your state’s interests.

I think most of us agree Manchin isn’t representing the interests of his country or his state.

[Walleye]

41. Yes that's the answer I was trying for. Legislation funded by the US treasury

[PSPS]

21. "the Democrat Party"

[Fla Dem]

29. Are you saying he should use "Democrat" party? If so I totally disagree with you.

Democratic Party IS the official name.

[PSPS]

31. He changed it in his original post after my comment. It did say "democrat party."

[Fla Dem]

46. OK. Thank you for letting me know.

I get really irritated when people on TV use the wrong term.

[Gore1FL]

33. Maybe. But I'm from Missouri. All of my Senate representation comes from out-of-state. nt

[Baitball Blogger]

19. +1000

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. Actually Bernie Sanders does have a relationship with voters in West Virginia

Granted it is nowhere remotely as close a relationship as someone who resides in West Virginia, and who was elected to represent West Virginia, has. But Senator Sanders has more familiarity with West Virginia voters by far than do most elected Democrats who didn't grow up there or live there currently. Bernie ran two national Presidential campaigns where he campaigned throughout West Virginia, holding numerous events there that brought him in contact with WV voters. After Trump was inaugurated, Sanders famously also held this Town Hall in WV in 2017:

[jaxexpat]

44. Excellent point of fact.

Manchin wants WV to stay where it is and has been since the turn of the 18th century. What the people of WV want or need is NOT in his equation. That's pretty much a given for all politicians of the conservative stripe. There are only a very few actual people for whom they work. Those special constituents that pay them. They have no actual interest in the excuses they use not to work for the good of the citizens at large. They don't care about jobs or the general health of their voters. If they did they'd string up some oxy-peddling drug profiteers. Nor are they concerned about any environmental issues either. If they did, WV would try to retain natural mountain tops instead of the massively destructive strip mining operations of "business" men living in the last century. Their donors don't care about environmental problems which might cost them profits so they don't either. That's the way all sold out politicians roll. I've not seen any of that with Bernie Sanders. It's not a 'both sides do it' argument. It rarely ever is.

[DanieRains]

2. West Virginia Will Burn Too Joe - Just A Matter Of Time

Burning coal is both suicide and homicide.

Sell your coal stock and tell the coal lobbyists to f themselves.

"Conservatives" simply want the entire planet to burn so the 1% can have outstanding returns.

Anyone else notice?

[Walleye]

14. Manchin isn't getting reelected anyway if Jim justice runs.He knows that

[DanieRains]

5. Bernie Is Fighting For The Children Of West Virgina

Maybe Manchin could care about them for once.

[atreides1]

6. To be fair

Manchin doesn't know what's best for West Virginians...he does what's best for big Pharma and big business...but he believes that West Virginians don't need to get paid $15/hour...he seems to think that West Virginia doesn't need better infrastructure, jobs, and education, either!!!

Did someone tell Manchin that his state is listed as one of the worst top 10 states when it comes to education, not that he would care!!!

In fact Sanders probably has a better idea of what's best for West Virginians, then Manchin does!

[Traildogbob]

7. Reckless spending

Is ONLY acceptable when he AND his daughter get more cash for yachts and off shore hideaways.

[TeamProg]

8. All in Congress TAKE MONEY FROM OUTSIDE OF THEIR STATE / DISTRICT !!

WHAT A PIECE OF WORK.

[alwaysinasnit]

9. I guess Bernie hit a huge nerve.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

10. Trying..hard...to remember...he is...the tipping point vote in the Senate. Sigh.

[Sneederbunk]

11. Isn't Manchin telling the other states what to do?

[Walleye]

15. Exactly

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

30. He's telling the rest of the world what to do.

Biden has proposed a transformation in energy production equivalent to the shift from horse-and-buggy to steam. Manchin has chosen to place himself squarely in the middle of that progress, and uses any reason he can come up with to run out the clock, and possibly cause the Dems to lose one or both of the houses of Congress, which effectively kills Biden's entire agenda.

Even if 90% of West Virginians wrote him, published LTEs, or even showed up at his office to demand he vote to pass the Build Back Better bill, he'd vote "no." He is bought and paid for, as is Sinema, whose major donors are in the pharmaceutical industry.

Putin must be pleased that his goal of destroying our democracy and the U.S.'s role as a global leader is being met without firing a shot.

[Botany]

17. "a reckless expansion of government programs"

That will help the people of West Virginia. Joe is blocking these bills because he is protecting the
fossil fuel industry.

The Build Back Better Agenda is an ambitious plan to create jobs, cut taxes, and lower costs for working families – all paid for by making the tax code fairer and making the wealthiest and large corporations pay their fair share.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/build-back-better/

The Biden Plan to Build a Modern, Sustainable Infrastructure and an Equitable Clean Energy Future

https://joebiden.com/clean-energy/

[JudyM]

20. Bold leadership at a critical point in time

Sanders’ straight-speaking isn’t letting Manchin hide in the shadows of gobbledygook. Fact is, Dems in West Virginia chose Sanders in the ‘16 primary, so he likely has their attention and may be the best voice for us against Manchin’s abhorrent obfuscation. Glad he’s running a different, strong play to get the ball down the field in these crucial times.

More:

In that piece, Sanders lays out how his proposed Medicare expansion and drug pricing reforms would help West Virginia, a historically poor state that is aided by many federal programs. Sanders also makes the case for climate action, paid leave expansion and other programs in the bill that could face omission if Manchin insists on shrinking it.

Sanders also specifically targets Manchin and Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.), who both oppose the $3.5 trillion number and are trying to shave it down.

“Poll after poll shows overwhelming support for this legislation. Yet, the political problem we face is that in a 50-50 Senate we need every Democratic senator to vote ‘yes.’ We now have only 48. Two Democratic senators remain in opposition, including Sen. Joe Manchin,” Sanders wrote.

… Last week, however, Sanders began pressuring Manchin and Sinema to speed up their languid negotiations on the final piece of Biden’s agenda…

[sop]

22. If Manchin gave even a rat's ass about his constituents, rather than the coal barons' interests,

he would leverage his vote in the Senate to include programs in Biden's plan that would benefit working class West Virginians. Programs like job retraining and support for displaced coal industry workers, clean energy and infrastructure spending to create new and better paying jobs in his state, affordable health care and drug rehabilitation to fight the scourge of West Virginia's opioid crisis, and a whole host of other things.

[relayerbob]

25. Honestly

It's truly annoying to see two non-Democrats screwing things up for the rest of us.

[Claire Oh Nette]

28. West VIrginia's natural resources hav always been plundered

WV's natural resources have always been plundered by out of state owners, be it timber and logging, coal extraction and mining, or the chemical plants lining the Ohio.

Those owners are not from West by god, and they certainly don't invest in the people of WV. Manchin may be from there, but his masters are from outside.

Twas ever thus.

[halfulglas]

32. I think what burns Manchin is "Independent Bernie Sanders" is pretty popular in WVA.

Bernie Sanders is more popular than most Dems in West Virginia, the way RW media bashes Dems as the devil, but Bernie and his populist message has been popular there. I seem to recall he did very well against Hillary in 2016. Bernie is telling them that this additional spending will be on THEM and the fact that Sanders is not technically belong to the Democratic party is a plus for him in their eyes, hence the quick response and name calling to brand it as Socialist.

[JohnSJ]

50. and 40% of those Sanders supporters in WV voted for trump in the general election, so I wouldn't

read too much into that, along with the fact that WV has open primaries, which means those West Virginians who declare no party preference can choose to vote in a Democratic or Republican primary, though their views do not necessarily match the views of the primary they are voting in

In other words, they can act as spoilers

That is why open primaries are a bad idea

[heckles65]

35. Manchin's doesn't want to break the illusion

that all those holler towns are going to stop bleeding people; particularly young, ambitious people.

[NurseJackie]

39. Sanders will have as much influence in WV as Manchin does in VT.

I think it's a well known fact that New-England politics don't "play well" in Peoria (or in WV). I certainly hope it's not viewed by the voters in West Virginia as something that's intrusive and unwelcome. I guess all I'm trying to say is that even the best of intentions can backfire and have unintended and unexpected consequences.

[Walleye]

40. I hope all our federal dollars aren't too intrusive or unwelcome

[NurseJackie]

42. Not really the same thing, is it?

[LittleGirl]

43. Hit a nerve, did he?

Poor Manchin! Too bad you don’t listen to the rest of the country that needs that spending.

[NurseJackie]

45. "No op-ed from a self-declared Independent socialist is going to change that,"

"No op-ed from a self-declared Independent socialist is going to change that,”

This is why I think it's best that Bernie Sanders should avoid getting involved in this type of public feud in West Virginia. By reminding his constituents who Bernie Sanders is, and what his "self-declared" political leanings are, Manchin has (in one sentence) already won the argument. Fact of the matter is that West Virginians do not "relate" to someone like Bernie Sanders and the likely outcome is that WV voters will see their senator as being unfairly attacked... and they'll rally-around in his defense. Again, all I'm saying is that sometimes the best intentions will have the opposite effect and these things should be carefully considered before acting in haste or in anger or frustration.

[Tanuki]

47. As Ken Ward, Jr. points out....

Link to tweet

[heckles65]

48. Manchin's playing the same crappy game

elected officials from rural areas have been playing for many decades - "I'm a benevolent overlord protecting my hardworkin' constituents from the mean ol' outsiders that just don't understand them." It's disingenuous bullshit of the first order. It isn't outsiders that make life miserable for the bulk of the populace.

I've lived in southern West Virginia, and I can tell there are only three ways you can get old in that area: 1) be born with a daddy who owns a coal concession, 2) work through the state/legal system in an honest or (just as likely) dishonest manner, or 3) get on disability at age 40. With a drug habit to boot.

[Hulk]

49. We are trapped with manchin and senima for the time.

We will probably end up with getting some very modest insignificant law passed but the disgusting foot-dragging house mancin and senima.

If we can flip more Senate seats in 22 we may have a chance to come back didn't complete the build back better dream.

[LiberalFighter]

52. This isn't the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians...

This isn’t the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what is best for them despite having no relationship to our state.

That may be true. But Manchin doesn't seem to want what is best for West Virginians. And I doubt that Manchin has the right relationship with his constituents.

[heckles65]

55. See my comment, above.

If West Virginia hangs on the coal industry like its sole life preserver, it will die - or more exactly, continue to be a shrinking, unhealthy, miserable state. This is the mentality Manchin seems to encourage, because when he decides to hang it up, hey it's going to be someone else's problem. How leaderlike of him (sarcasm)

[Deminpenn]

56. Fine, let's have a carve out for WVa only based

on what Manchin thinks they "need" or "want". We'll see how West Virginians feel about being left behind.

WVa is a net tax receiver. They can keep what they generate in federal tax revenue and FICA tax revenue but no extra federal dollars. It will save the government money if we don't have to spend extra supporting WVa residents.

Maybe they'll appreciate being "independent" and using their limited resources or depending on philanthropy to help their neighbors who are worse off.

[Deminpenn]

57. One more thing

If a populist like Bernie Sanders ran in WVa, he's win.

[Omaha Steve]

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