Scoop: "How about zero?" Manchin, Sanders get heated behind closed doors

[Calista241]

Source: Axios

Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) squabbled behind closed doors Wednesday, with Manchin using a raised-fist goose egg to tell his colleague he can live without any of President Biden's social spending plan, Axios has learned.

Why it matters: The disagreement, recounted to Axios by two senators in the room, underscores how far apart two key members remain as the Democratic Party tries to meet its deadline for reaching an agreement on a budget reconciliation framework by Friday.

It also shows that despite the "kumbaya meeting" between Manchin and Sanders on Monday — after which they posed together for photos — the two remain sharply divided.

Manchin's comfort level with zero as a final number — and his willingness to threaten Sanders with it publicly at Wednesday's lunch for Senate committee chairs — reveals a stark reality for Democratic negotiators: Manchin can control the final dollar amount.

...

Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.), chairman of a Senate Appropriations subcommittee, described the incident as a "a difference in opinion."

Read more: https://www.axios.com/manchin-sanders-reconciliation-fight-789c8441-fa49-404f-9d36-4adaa8e1d908.html

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There's more at the link, including comments from other Senators in attendance.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

1. What if Mr. L described the incident as 'some epic dick-wagging'?

Would that be wrong?

[dweller]

3. You mean it wasn't

a raised-fist goose egg
😳


✌🏻

[Hugh_Lebowski]

6. Oh, they're related ... trust me (nt)

[NurseJackie]

2. I figured it would come to this. At a certain point "negotiating" becomes pestering & antagonizing...

I figured it would come to this. At a certain point "negotiating" becomes pestering & antagonizing... and then you're left with absolutely nothing when someone digs-in their heels in order to make a point or to try and get the aggressive negotiator to back-off.

Sad. I wish it was different.

[BlueTsunami2018]

4. I hate what these people have done to me.

I feel like I’m being hollowed out by all this rage and hate I’ve expended over the past five years. There’s absolutely no reason for Manchin to be acting like such a fucking asshole. That’s all this is, an asshole power play. I think I’m going to have to stop giving a shit about any of this and prepare to live under the coming fascist state. We just can’t have anything with these scumbags.

I’m livid over this.

[OnDoutside]

5. Manchin wins, accept it and get what remains over the line asap. Then

work like hell to get at least a 52-48 Dem margin in Nov 22, so Manchin and Sinema are irrelevant. That's the best focus for people's anger.

[NurseJackie]

7. You are correct.

[LoisB]

9. Agree

[Budi]

12. This is how you cross the finish line. ⬆️

And We Will Get Biden's BBB Bill across it.

Thanks 👍

[fwdthinkingdem]

29. Will it really matter?

His "friends" blocked a voting rights bill that his "colleagues" want. The anti-religious left better pray to God the Universe or whatever you want to call it that we maintain both houses.

[OnDoutside]

53. Yes it will. I've been saying it since the two Georgia run off wins

that nothing else matters than getting a voting rights act passed, everything else is the cherry on top. What Manchin and Sinema have done is utterly selfish, but it is what it is. Get the infrastructure passed and put all the attention on the voting rights act that Manchin championed, which will help the two of them specifically above almost any other elected Dem in Congress

[msfiddlestix]

49. Absolutely, and not a minute should be wasted on that goal

Needs to put on turbo charge blasters across the nation.

No 2010 / 2016 repeats!

[LenaBaby61]

54. Yep, that's about ALL you can do. Get passed what you can, move on.

But boy, the mostly corporate media's gonna run with this, saying that BIDEN can't get his own agenda passed, he's powerless, Dems had to pair down their bill to only $1.5 trillion or less, when they offered the American people more, Dems can't get it done, and of course the GQP/US Taliban Party will REALLY run with this. We know the mostly corporate media won't tell the tale of HOW the GQP/US Taliban Party is destroying this country. NOPE. Not to mention, if we don't have a voting rights bill of some type in place, and heaven forbid we lose the Senate and House outright in the next mid-terms, this country is doomed. We barely got past what tRump/GQP party did to this country from 2016 to 2020, but next time around we will not be so lucky.

Did Manchin find those 10 GQP'ers he promised to help him out in passing his piece of legislation concerning the voting rights bill?

[OnDoutside]

55. At least if they get this and the bipartisan deal over the line, they'll have

something big to sell to the American people, but the whole ballgame is the voting rights bill as you say. My fear is that a Dem Senator in a state with a Republican Governor (who would get to choose the replacement) becomes incapacitated, then it's all over. Time is not on Democrats side.

[LenaBaby61]

56. I know I can tend to get too nervous about things ....

I've come to notice this the closer I got to turning 60 , but the truth is as you say all night and all day long, time is not on our side, as 2022 will be upon us within a heart beat, and if we don't get some type of legislation passed as it relates to voting rights, and the GQP does cheat/steal to win the House/Senate
Lord Have Mercy ....

[OnDoutside]

57. Amen.

[PatSeg]

11. I understand how you feel

It is all so exhausting and there doesn't seem to be an end to it.

I recently finished reading Woodward-Costa's book, Peril, and the descriptions of Manchin's stubborn behavior were compelling. Both Debbie Stabenow and James Clyburn met with him, trying to make him realize that he is only one of 50 Democrats in the Senate. No one got everything they wanted, but they all, except for Manchin, were willing to compromise to get the bill passed. Stabenow told him he was being selfish.

[Traildogbob]

25. I am right there

I feel exactly the same way. 5 of my 10 year retirement has been. I thing but hate and rage. Disgusted that eight years of service to this country to be here. Can’t stand to see the flag right now. MAGAs made it a symbol of hate, just like every flag they fly.

[Vinca]

8. Manchin can live with zero, but I doubt many of his constituents bring in a million bucks

a year to the family from big coal.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

23. You say "constituent", Manchin says "contributor"

Many of his contributors bring in a million bucks. Some from coal. They like buying nice things, such as buying a senator.

[JohnSJ]

10. Just get a deal done, and move to getting Democrats elected in 2022. We have reached a

Point where this will start working against us. I hope it doesn’t negatively affect the Governor race in Virginia

[Budi]

13. Yup. There is always another way. This takes their power & ego to ZERO.

This is how ya do it.

[JohnSJ]

14. Not likely, but that is what it will take

[brer cat]

17. +++

52 in '22

[JohnSJ]

18. Yes. That is how it needs to get done.

[fwdthinkingdem]

30. We had 59 in 2008....

We need a bigger buffer than that. One of those 2 additional might be another Judasinema

[Justice matters.]

39. Yep. EXPLAIN what exactly is IN the bill on the campaign trail.

Repeat, rince, repeat. And don't forget to mention how and who's gonna pay the bill.

Stop repeating 3.5 Trillion without saying who will pay for it.

We need to keep the House and add two Senators.

[lapucelle]

15. Why is Sanders still insisting on $3.5 trillion?

That’s not President Biden’s number.

[Budi]

19. JFC 🙄

[mwooldri]

24. I believe Sanders started at six trillion. NT

[lapucelle]

32. I believe Joe Biden is the president.

Biden Tells Democrats Spending Package Will Be Slashed to Roughly $2 Trillion

President Joe Biden went to Capitol Hill on Friday [October 1] to try to press pause on days of fighting among Democrats as he tried to save two key bills. Biden made clear the promised vote on the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill would not happen after all, even as he warned progressives they would have to get used to the idea that the spending package on climate change and social policies would have to be slashed by around half. There doesn’t seem to be an obvious path to passage but Biden also urged patience, telling they lawmakers could take their time if needed. “We’re going to get this done,” Biden told reporters. “It doesn’t matter when. It doesn’t, whether it’s in six minutes, six days or six weeks—we’re going to get it done.” For now though it’s “just reality” that the two bills are tied to each other and one can’t pass without the other, he said.

While speaking to lawmakers in what was his first-ever meeting with the full House Democratic caucus since becoming president, Biden said the price tag of the social spending bill would have to come down from $2.5 trillion to somewhere between $1.9 trillion and $2.3 trillion. Biden tried to quell anger of progressives by insisting that even at that price tag it would still involve “historic investments” on key issues.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/10/biden-democrats-social-spending-package-slash-congress.html

[Budi]

36. K & R Thank You!

This is why Joe Biden is President & they are not.

[sheshe2]

28. Per, Sen Coons he, Bernie also said 6T.

[div class="excerpt"Manchin said, "I'm comfortable with zero," forming a "zero" with his thumb and index finger, Tester reiterated, saying he believes the West Virginia Democrat can live with himself if the Senate doesn't pass any of the president's $2-$3.5 trillion package.
Another witness, Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.) said, "There was a vigorous, 10-minute discussion. Bernie said, '$6 trillion.'"


I don't believe he is the man to be negotiating this package. It should be left to cooler heads.

[FBaggins]

35. I agree that Sanders can't help negotiations

But he's been the senior Democrat on Budget for almost seven years now and, absent winning the presidency, I'm not sure that there's much that he cares more about (politically).

[DanieRains]

16. Zero Is Exactly How Much Say Citizens Of Our Country Have Over Corporate Donors

Reality.

[Evolve Dammit]

20. What an out-of-touch dickhead. Seriously.

[betsuni]

21. "Bernie said, '$6 trillion.' [Manchin] said, 'We shouldn't do it at all.'"

Sigh. Get a couples counselor in there.

[totodeinhere]

22. We have seen reports that Manchin is considering leaving the Democratic Party.

If he should vote with the Republicans on organizational votes that would be pretty much the end of the Biden agenda.

[Justice matters.]

40. And if he remains the moronic stubborn puppet of the coal overlords bent on destroying life on Earth

in exchange for a few more millions they don't need, that also could be pretty much the end of the Biden agenda.

[totodeinhere]

52. That too. So what to do? n/t

[3825-87867]

26. If we pick up 2 or more Senate seats in 2022

and keep the house, Biden's Bill will pass.

Will Big Corporations then demand their money back from the 3 Trillion Dollar Senators? Hey!!! Or will it be a shame - if they can't pay it back?
At least they'll have their good old socilaized meds to help the retirement years.

[BlueTsunami2018]

31. That's a big "if".

Considering gerrymandering, election officials being replaced by MAGA cultists, these voter suppression laws and the general trend of the party of the President losing seats in Congress in midterms, we can’t wait until after the next election.

We need to act now and with this chooch Manchin and the other one refusing to do anything meaningful, we can’t.

It’s so very disheartening.

[Tommymac]

37. I fear the 1% may find someone else.

Don't they realize that if they (The Energy folks in particular - FUCK YOU KOCH Family!!) don't allow the little folks SOMETHING, that cake IS going to be served to them? And butter knives and forks will not be the utensil of choice.

Selfish short sighted fucks. They think their children will survive in Enclaves. That ain't going to happen, We ALL will be dead.

Every Single ONE of US. The Climate does not give a FUCK about them or their money.

I try to be optimistic, but FUCKS like Joe Manchin who stupidly and selfishly take their blood money and do their bidding but should know better make me want to hurl.



How the hell are we supposed to support him?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[heckles65]

27. I've lived in West Virginia myself

Manchin's like nearly every one of their pols the past thirty years - if everyone's just patient enough, 1950 will come back and Pit Number 6 will need 250 hands come Monday morning. It's a delusion.

Reality is, unless your daddy has mine futures to inherit, if you're a young man the best thing to do is get out of the state as quickly as possible before you fall in with the wrong crowd.

[Deminpenn]

43. Same here in western PA

except it's the mills, not the mines.

[Jon King]

33. The House is all but gone in 2022 anyway.

The map is terrible for the Dems and redistricting will make it worse. So all of this will be a moot point in a year. Manchin and Sinema will not matter because the Repug House will just investigate every Dem, impeach Biden and Harris.

So enjoy now Manchin, you will not matter before you know it.

[Tommymac]

38. Aww fuck that noise.

[EndlessWire]

47. Don't be so sure

We The People still vote how we want, and we can still get out there and fight. We can't let these fascists win.

[FBaggins]

34. "reveals a stark reality for Democratic negotiators: Manchin can control the final dollar amount"Why

Why this wasn't a "stark reality" since January is beyond me. Leadership should have had him in the room from the beginning... rather than this ridiculous "we can get him to buy 3.5 Trillion if we threaten to hold back half a trillion that he wants"

[Deminpenn]

42. He has been in the room. He's part of Schumer's leadership team

In fact Manchin voted FOR the 3.5T budget blueprint that was passed by the Senate and sent to the House.

[Calista241]

44. He also issued a signing statement that basically said he was voting to move this forward

but that the 3.5T number was unworkable and would have to be adjusted down to something more realistic.

[Deminpenn]

41. Wish Manchin would consider that he's 71

or so and this legislation will be changing lives for the better long after he's dead and gone. We "Boomers" are now the oldest US generation. We can't be selfish. We have to do what's best in the long run, not cling to ideas that were acceptable or in vogue 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago.

[LenaBaby61]

58. "Wish Manchin would consider that he's 71."

Him being older I feel has made him dig in deeper in his ideology.

He doesn't care about the generations behind him, only about himself and about fattening his family's pockets with money, and about how rich they can stay, and of course, allegiance to his dear and beloved coal/coal stocks and the other monies HE makes off of coal, and of course his dying allegiance to his coal master barons. He gives not one fuck about the people of WV. I feel for those having to live in that state who are suffering and who do know what Manchin's all about and who vote against him, but too many don't get him nor understand that coal is not and won't be a sustainable comodity for much longer. Most don't get that a green economy or green jobs is the way to go. No, those who love and still believe in coal jobs vote for Manchin to continue being their Senator by huge margins everytime he's been up for election. West Virginia's in horrible shape. You have an opiod/drug addiction problem there out of control, more and more dying from black lung disease caused by working in coal mines/plants, the state is aging rapidly and to make matters worse, the young people are moving away from there in droves, and most say that even if they could, they wouldn't want to work in a coal mine or in a coal processing plant (Friends from WV tell me that their young relatives still living there--but for not much longer--tell them that's how most youth will answer you when asked about working in coal mines/coal industry. They see friends/family dying the worst kinds of death from black lung disease, and and they want NO part of that). West Virginia's one of the worst rated/ranked states in this country on just about everything you can rate a state on, which means that their infrastructure ranks near the bottom of all 50 states and is in complete shambles.

But no, coal, and coal JOBS is the answer to help pull West Virginia up and out of ALL of their problems. Too many of them still believe that their Senator, Joe Manchin, and his love of coal/coal industry is gong to save West Virginia once again.

[Javaman]

45. manchin is a disingenuous asshole.

it's already paid and he knows it.

he's just bowing down to his wealthy donors and the rich in general.

[GB_RN]

46. So, So Sick Of This

Between his demands for massive cuts and a certain Arizona senator’s antics, who needs Republicans standing in the way of progress?

[EndlessWire]

48. Yeah, so am I. n/t

[ForgoTheConsequence]

50. Thank you Bernie for fighting for Biden's legacy.

If Manchin is ok with holding the American people hostage by threatening the "big goose egg" he can fuck off. Our lives are not a game!

[onecaliberal]

51. How about this. If you don't want to govern, and you're just there to enrich yourself. RESIGN!