Moammar Gaddafi, Late Libyan Dictator, Had Undeclared Stockpile Of Chemical Weapons

[DeathToTheOil]

AMSTERDAM -- International inspectors have confirmed that late Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi had an undeclared stockpile of chemical weapons, the organization that oversees a global ban on such armaments announced Friday.

The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons said inspectors who visited Libya this week found sulfur mustard and artillery shells "which they determined are chemical munitions," meaning the shells were not filled with chemicals, but were designed specifically to be loaded with chemical weapons.

"They are not ready to use, because they are not loaded with agents," OPCW spokesman Michael Luhan said.

He would not divulge the amounts of chemicals in the previously unknown stockpile, except to call it "a fraction" of what Gadhafi disclosed in the past.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/moammar-gaddafi-chemical-weapons-libya_n_1218425.html

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

1. It's an odd way to classify ordnance

They're chemical warheads, but they're empty, containing no chemicals. So what are they? Luhan wouldn't divulge the amounts of chemicals. Well, if the shells were empty, then the amount is zero. I wouldn't divulge that number either, it just doesn't sound very scary.

I wouldn't get too excited about a pile of empty brass.

Maybe there's more to the story...

[AngryAmish]

3. Due to the caustic nature of these munitions they are not loaded all the time

You keep the chemicals out of them or the storage gets really dangerous. Imagine a bunker or warehouse filled with chemical weapons. Drop one and you could gas a lot of people. Chemical weapons have a unique shell that is incompatible with explosive ordinance (dual resevoirs, no shrapnel, etc.

[pinboy3niner]

4. The news is that the regime had a delivery system (contrary to previous beliefs)

Gaddafi had been believed to be unable to use his stockpile of mustard agent because he lacked a delivery system--so the discovery of the previously unknown chemical artillery shells is news.

Most of his stockpile of mustard agent, and its location, were already known.

[Javaman]

2. US made? like Iraq's? nt

[LynneSin]

5. I thought Gaddafi reported all the Mustard gas to Bush

Remember when Bush made a big stink about it at a debate or something

[dipsydoodle]

15. I think you're right.

What's not really clear here is the actual quantative declaration from all those years ago. This seems to be a storm in a teacup to me.

[Igel]

18. A "fraction".

Perhaps the fraction is 50000/10, since that (strictly speaking) is a fraction, and he had 5000x more than he reported. Then again, that's not the implicature, is it?

Perhaps he had 200.01 tons and only reported 200 tons. That 1/100 of a ton is also a fraction. Usually when people say something's "a fraction" if they have any good will towards the listener they have in mind a relatively small fraction. Then again, the interpreter also has to have a modicum of good will. Among "men of good will" (or "women of good will&quot there's actually precious little good will these days.


Not enough information here to make any judgement that we hadn't already made based on introspection and whim. It's the kind of thing where we hear a topic, form an opinion, and then may deign to actually hear the evidence. Hardly fact-based.


Oddly, in other cases when chemical-weapon artillery shells were found (just as in this case) it was absolutely not a big deal. Same for relatively small mounts of chemical weapons. A principle that depends crucially upon whose ox is gored isn't a really much of a principle.

[AlbertCat]

6. So THAT'S where Saddam had them moved before the inspectors arrived!

Right Rummy? I mean you knew where they were.

Rummy? Donald?

[leveymg]

7. This isn't really news. It's been common knowledge for years that Libya retained chem weapons

Why bring this up now, unless its some after-the-fact justification for regime change.

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/LibyaChronology

2003

February 12, 2003: CIA Director George Tenet, in written testimony to Congress, notes “Libya clearly intends to re-establish its offensive chemical weapons capability.”

Early March 2003: Libyan intelligence officials approach British intelligence officials and offer to enter negotiations regarding the elimination of Libya’s WMD programs. The subsequent negotiations, which include U.S. officials, are kept secret.

Former National Security Council official Flynt Leverett later writes in a January 23, 2004 New York Times article that Washington offers an “explicit quid pro quo” to Tripoli regarding its WMD programs. U.S. officials indicate that the United States will remove its sanctions on Libya if the latter verifiably dismantles these programs, according to Leverett.

The meeting occurs prior to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq later that month.

Even after the supposed dismantlement, it was widely known that Libya retained some stockpiles.

2010

July 2010: The State Department’s arms control Compliance Report says that Libya is complying with its Biological Weapons Convention and nuclear nonproliferation obligations. It also says that Libya has made progress destroying its chemical weapons stockpile but has not yet met its obligations to adopt legislation to implement the Chemical Weapons Convention.

2011

February 23, 2011: OPCW spokesperson Michael Luhan tells the Associated Press that Libya destroyed “nearly 13.5 metric tons” of its mustard gas in 2010, accounting for “about 54 percent of its stockpile.”

February 25, 2011: Citing security concerns due to ongoing political unrest, U.S. officials announce the suspension of U.S. embassy operations in Libya.

[tabasco]

19. Yes, it is.

It was not known he had these shells, specifically designed to deliver chemical ordnance.

[leveymg]

22. Yet, the fact is. Gadhaffi never used WMDs. So, what's the point in bringing it up, now?

Other than to create some some sort of model or rationale for more, better, bigger regime changes to come.

Oh what a beautiful morning, oh, what a glorious way to start a regional war.

[Skinner]

8. It woud seem that in Libya President Obama has achieved everything...

...President Bush hoped to achieve in Iraq, but didn't.

1. Brief, targeted intervention.
2. Removal of a notorious dictator.
3. Movement toward government that enjoys popular support.
4. Broad support from countries across the Middle East.
5. Broad support among our allies in Europe, and around the world.
7. Limited cost to the US Treasury.
6. No loss of American life.
8. Found the WMDs.

[rfranklin]

9. Let's reword that: Obama triumphed brilliantly where Bush failed miserably

Of course, as we have been told, all of Obama's achievements were due to the actions taken by Bush previously.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. Of course, that's only the sort of thing Bush *claimed* he wanted to achieve in Iraq.

I think he pretty much got what he really wanted.

[pinboy3niner]

14. Well said, Skinner!

You fucking nailed it!

[joshcryer]

16. Indeed, Skinner. 100%

A purely internationalist effort, and the Libyan people are glad for it.

[ellisonz]

17. Furthermore...

...it's been widely reported that the Pentagon brass and Robert Gates did not want to intervene in Libya. Thank goodness that we have a Hawaii-born President who will always try to do his best to keep things pono - to not intervene would have resulted in a substantial loss of innocent Libyan life.

Gaddafi had more than just Libyan blood on his hands, he had Ugandan, Ethiopian, Chadian, Sudanese, Angolan, Egyptian, Liberian, Sierra Leoneon, and many others blood on his hands...

Now Libya is free, Africa will no longer have to deal with him, and there has been some justice for the victims of his crimes.


Gaddafi and Idi Amin - 1974 in Uganda


The Couch of Aisha Gaddafi - yes that is her face.

[Gold Metal Flake]

20. Brilliantly summarized. A comparison that I hope to see more of this year.

Our friends on the other side don't want to talk about it, but it's the truth.

Where does that message go from here?

[underpants]

21. checking the math.... whoops we missed the bombing site by about 1,798.7 miles

sorry about that. Well at least Ted Koppel was there to document it.

[Harriety]

11. When I was a kid, my oldest brother had a chemisty set in the basement. n/t

[yellowcanine]

12. Saddam's WMDs!!! Rummy was right! This changes everything!

[onehandle]

13. Yet another failure of the Bush administration.

Why did we invade Iraq?

It's a miracle we survived those eight years.