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BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 02:31 PM Mar 2023

Oil slumps $5/bbl to lowest in more than a year as banking fears mount

Source: Reuters

HOUSTON, March 15 (Reuters) - Oil prices plunged more than $5 a barrel on Wednesday to their lowest in more than a year as unease over Credit Suisse spooked world markets and offset hopes of a Chinese oil demand recovery.

Early signs of a return to market stability faded after Credit Suisse's largest investor said it could not provide the Swiss bank with more financial assistance, sending its shares and other European equities sliding.

"It doesn't matter what your risk asset is, at this point people are pulling the plug across different instruments here," said Robert Yawger, director of energy futures at Mizuho in New York.

"Nobody wants to go home with a big position on anything today ... you have nowhere to hide really." Both crude benchmarks hit their lowest since December 2021 and have fallen for three straight days.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/oil-prices-bounce-back-helped-by-stronger-opec-outlook-china-2023-03-15/



I had grabbed a snapshot of this about 10 minutes ago before it updated to about $1 more but still!!!! I had seen something about a sudden sell-off of oil.



DOE was supposed to start buying oil back in December to refill the Petroleum Reserve when it had dropped into the low-mid $70s or less and this was after selling some of our reserves for $96/bbl to feed the market to get the prices down,
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Oil slumps $5/bbl to lowest in more than a year as banking fears mount (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 OP
So we'll be back to $3.00/gallon for gas by Friday? Probatim Mar 2023 #1
Hell, I Was Expecting RobinA Mar 2023 #9
There's few things in the world more complicated to a liberal (which I count myself as) Hugh_Lebowski Mar 2023 #2
LOL BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #4
So, I guess that means that the price at the pump goes up... Chainfire Mar 2023 #3
Intraday, update after 4 or 5 pm please IbogaProject Mar 2023 #5
I posted a snapshot of where it was at around the time the OP was done BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #8
The US uses over 20 million barrels of oil daily. FredGarvin Mar 2023 #15
Didn't we have this argument before? BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #20
And the settlement price was $67.61 for today BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #19
And...the price at the pump won't change a damn cent. Just watch......... Bengus81 Mar 2023 #6
They always have an excuse about weather affecting refineries or seasonal switch to different blend wishstar Mar 2023 #21
We should get it to $5 a barrel The Mouth Mar 2023 #7
I remember when this happened during the pandemic BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #12
Shortest bear market in the history of man FredGarvin Mar 2023 #14
Saudi and Russia BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #17
No. We should get it to $150/barrel, and gas to $5/gallon NickB79 Mar 2023 #28
Basically, you hate poor people. The Mouth Mar 2023 #30
Climate change will kill billions by century's end. Mostly the global poor NickB79 Mar 2023 #31
The *only* thing that matters The Mouth Mar 2023 #32
Then you're an utter fool NickB79 Mar 2023 #33
The only utter fool is you The Mouth Mar 2023 #34
Biden is lowering oil prices! IronLionZion Mar 2023 #10
Sounds like the movers and shakers know Warpy Mar 2023 #11
All banker troubles have always been solved by bailouts FredGarvin Mar 2023 #13
Couldn't tell that here, ripoff gas stations still charging over 3 1/2 bucks here nt yaesu Mar 2023 #16
I paid $3.49 near where I live here in Philly BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #18
Just as I predicted the price at the pump here hasn't dropped one GD cent Bengus81 Mar 2023 #22
Well technically the price for bbls of oil BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #23
It's reflective when a barrel of oil goes UP--especially $14 per barrel Bengus81 Mar 2023 #24
That would still be up to the gasoline wholesalers/retailers to shoot it up like that BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #25
US gas prices at the pump depend on if a Democrat holds the White House. Yavin4 Mar 2023 #26
Price gouging Novara Mar 2023 #27
The worst thing we could do is promote or hope for cheaper fossil fuels NickB79 Mar 2023 #29

Probatim

(2,518 posts)
1. So we'll be back to $3.00/gallon for gas by Friday?
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 02:44 PM
Mar 2023

Thanks to Betteridge's Law of Headlines, we know the answer to my question is NO.

RobinA

(9,888 posts)
9. Hell, I Was Expecting
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 03:35 PM
Mar 2023

based on history that the price will be significantly changed on my way home from work. That's in an hour. I guess not, since it would be lower.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
2. There's few things in the world more complicated to a liberal (which I count myself as)
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 02:46 PM
Mar 2023

Than lower oil prices.

You get down down to brass tacks, really think about it ... and its very difficult to come down on one side or the other on the issue.

Very unlike, say ... Civil Rights or similar social causes, where it's pretty easy

This one's a toughie, just sayin.

Chainfire

(17,526 posts)
3. So, I guess that means that the price at the pump goes up...
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 02:50 PM
Mar 2023

It is that special type of American Capitalism.

IbogaProject

(2,804 posts)
5. Intraday, update after 4 or 5 pm please
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 02:55 PM
Mar 2023

Things often correct as you get towards the end of the trading day at 4pm.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
8. I posted a snapshot of where it was at around the time the OP was done
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 03:24 PM
Mar 2023

which was not long after Reuters published an update of their article.

The close yesterday was at $71.33 and it opened at $71.56 this morning.

The point here is that it is less than the $75 it had been running through the fall/winter which was near the price of when the Biden Administration had noted that they would start buying.

The latest sales actually continued a month ago -

US to Sell 26 Million More Barrels From Strategic Oil Reserve

Jennifer Jacobs and Ari Natter
February 13, 2023·2 min read


(Bloomberg) -- The Biden administration plans to sell more crude oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, fulfilling budget directives mandated years ago that it had sought to stop as oil prices have stabilized. The congressionally mandated sale will amount to 26 million barrels of crude, according to people familiar with the matter. The sale is in accordance with a budget mandate enacted in 2015 for the current fiscal year, said a spokesperson for the Department of Energy.

The Energy Department has sought to stop some of the sales required by 2015 legislation so that it can refill the emergency reserve, which currently has about 371 million barrels. After this latest release, the reserve will dip to about 345 million.

Biden officials decided last year to tap 180 million barrels from the strategic reserve in an effort to ease supply issues after Russia invaded Ukraine, upending global oil flows and sending crude above $100 a barrel. Some Republicans have criticized the Biden administration for that drawdown, which was the biggest release ever and helped drain the SPR to its lowest level since 1983. Critics admonished the move as a political stunt intended to combat rising gasoline prices ahead of midterm elections.

Biden officials have since spoken with energy companies about purchasing oil to refill the SPR when prices approach $70 a barrel. The latest release comes after Russia unveiled plans to curtail production by half-a-million barrels a day next month to retaliate against sanctions. Russia’s move, which was downplayed by the European Union, follows China’s rapid economic reopening with the scrapping of Covid-19 restrictions. The SPR release may give pause to the OPEC+ alliance, which earlier said that global oil markets remain balanced.

(snip)

https://www.yahoo.com/now/us-sell-26-million-more-200426064.html


I think they are "there" now (still under $70)!

FredGarvin

(471 posts)
15. The US uses over 20 million barrels of oil daily.
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 04:46 PM
Mar 2023

Who did they sell the oil to, as there was no shortage whatsoever.

"Releasing" 40 million barrels is mice nuts.

Who paid for the oil in the first place and who is going to pay for its replenishment?

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
20. Didn't we have this argument before?
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 07:51 PM
Mar 2023

YES we did!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142983099





Remember it's not just us doing it but some EU countries have released reserves and NOW you have this interesting ditty that has been going on somewhat under the radar (although I have been following it) -

Inside Venezuela’s Contradictory Oil Industry


Robert Rapier
Senior Contributor

Feb 21, 2023,11:23am EST

According to the 2022 BP Statistical Review of World Energy, Venezuela has more proved oil reserves than any other country in the world. Venezuela’s 304 billion barrels of proved reserves just edges out Saudi Arabia’s 298 billion barrels. Both are far ahead of U.S. proved reserves of 69 billion barrels. But the Top 3 oil producers in 2021 were the U.S. at 11.1 million barrels per day (BPD), Russia at 10.5 million BPD, and Saudi Arabia at 9.4 million BPD. Venezuela was way down the list, at #25 with 605,000 BPD.

Venezuela’s heavy crude oil is especially prized by U.S. refiners. How is it that a country with so much oil produces so little? And why has the country seen its oil production plummet by more than 75% over the past decade? One reason for the decline of Venezuela’s oil industry is that many countries — including the U.S. — have placed various sanctions on Venezuela over the years. Most recently, the Trump Administration placed Venezuela’s oil sector under sanction in 2019.

(snip)

This production decline has particularly impacted U.S. refiners. Venezuela’s oil is heavy, which means it requires more processing by refiners. But U.S. refiners have invested billions of dollars into processing heavy oil. This oil sells at a discount to lighter oil, and as a result refiners make more money processing this crude oil into finished products. But, the U.S. government recently loosened the sanctions a bit, allowing Chevron to expand production in a joint venture with PDVSA, and to ship that oil to the U.S. Reuters reported last week that Chevron obtained a license from the U.S. Treasury Department that will allow it to ship more than 100,000 BPD of Venezuelan crude to the U.S. this month.

This deal may finally help Venezuela grow its oil production after more than a decade of decline. On paper, Venezuela alone could meet global oil demand for nearly a decade. The country could grow wealthy in the process. But it’s got some work to do.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2023/02/21/inside-venezuelas-contradictory-oil-industry/?sh=28f077127c13


These markets are usually based on "future", not "current" so that gets priced in. When you have a "there may be more where that comes from" stuff going on (and that even means Iran as well - although the latest news of their cooperation with Russia might delay those backroom discussions), there is still that potential of a dump of oil out there coupled with a possible reduction of China's usage of it if the world heads closer to a recession and pulls back on purchasing all the stuff they sell.

Bengus81

(6,931 posts)
6. And...the price at the pump won't change a damn cent. Just watch.........
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 03:13 PM
Mar 2023

Oil was at 80.61 on 3/6/23 and has been dropping and dropping. The price at the pump has never changed here in those nine days.

Now if it would have gone UP 14.00 per barrel.........

wishstar

(5,268 posts)
21. They always have an excuse about weather affecting refineries or seasonal switch to different blend
Thu Mar 16, 2023, 03:36 AM
Mar 2023

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
17. Saudi and Russia
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 05:09 PM
Mar 2023

had some... words...

Of course they made up for all those losses of having to pay to store what they were pumping out as fast as they could... handily.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
28. No. We should get it to $150/barrel, and gas to $5/gallon
Wed Mar 22, 2023, 06:03 PM
Mar 2023

The absolute last thing we need is cheap fossil fuels, because that would destroy our last chance at slowing catastrophic climate change. As it is, the UN is already saying we're practically out of time now.

At $1/gallon, SUV and truck sales would soar, both in the US and globally. No one would buy EV's or hybrids. And we'll well and truly cook this planet into a veritable hellscape, fucking future generations (if there even ARE future generations).

The Mouth

(3,148 posts)
30. Basically, you hate poor people.
Thu Mar 23, 2023, 11:39 AM
Mar 2023

The biggest driver of inflation is the obscene fuel prices. Diesel fuel is what gets food and goods to where people can consume them. Inflation hurts poor and middle class people way more than the rich. Show me someone who wants high fuel prices and I know they are a person who wants to see poverty made worse and the middle classes ground down into poverty.

50 cents a gallon would be much better. Electricity should be too cheap to even bother metering; 100+ new nuke plants would help with that.

There is no way energy, of any type, could possible be cheap enough. Drill, frack, mine, build 1000 nuke plants, millions of acres of solar, tidal and wind. It still won't be enough.

I find it disgusting to be hating on those of us who drive big-ass trucks to fix your plumbing, your roof, maintain your yard, deliver equipment to your hospital and school. That matters, not what someone working for the UN or sitting in an ivory tower says.

My America is the people who build things, fix things, and move things from one place to another, who work up a sweat, who swing tools and use their muscles.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
31. Climate change will kill billions by century's end. Mostly the global poor
Thu Mar 23, 2023, 11:55 AM
Mar 2023

Lie to me and tell me you "love" poor people while turning a blind eye to the people who just died in Pakistan from flooding, or the millions of Bangladeshi people who will die when the sea claims their nation, or the millions of Indians who will die when wet bulb temps cook them alive in the next few decades. How about the mass starvation we're currently seeing in the Horn of Africa from an unprecedented drought amped by climate change.

Pushing more fossil fuels to "help the poor" has been a Big Oil/GOP talking point for DECADES. Anyone who pushes more carbon emissions, knowing full well the climate catastrophe we're entering, is a liar and hypocrite.

The Mouth

(3,148 posts)
32. The *only* thing that matters
Thu Mar 23, 2023, 01:21 PM
Mar 2023

is the economy.

The guy fixing your garage door or the woman having to commute 40 miles each way matter more to me than any example you are pulling out of whatever orifice you are using.

Blue collars matter. American jobs and the budgets of working folks matter. Everything else, not so much. Forget that and hand the Republicans a nice, big stick to beat us with. ONE person with a truck coming to fix a furnace means more to me than a flood halfway around the world./

The day China stops building new coal plants and tears down the ones they've built in the last 20 years is the day I will give a shit about anything besides cheap energy, infrastructure and American jobs.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
33. Then you're an utter fool
Thu Mar 23, 2023, 06:15 PM
Mar 2023

You know who else said only the economy mattered when it came to the environment? And who used China as a scapegoat for not caring?

Trump.

Also, Latin Trump, aka Brazilian President Bolsonaro, who basically said "fuck the rainforests, we need to clear them for jobs and the economy."

So you're keeping real good company, I see.

But here's the rub: we destroy the environment, and we slit our own throats. All the jobs in the world mean jack shit when we kill off the bees that pollinate our food. When we cut the forests that keep rivers clean. When we plow up the grasslands that prevents another Dust Bowl. When we acidify and plastify the oceans, after we've cooked the coral reefs to death along with the fish that feed a billion people. When coastal cities are going under, because the last time we had this much CO2 in the air, seas were 50 FEET higher and goddamn trees grew in Antarctica! How many jobs will Miami and New York generate when they're underwater?

We follow your advice, and human civilization will be toast by 2100. Not just a Depression. I mean Somali warlords meet Mad Max, with maybe some nuclear resource wars mixed in for good measure.

But thanks for telling all of DU that you'd gladly help drive the largest mass extinction event since the dinosaurs, and the eventual collapse of human society, for profit.

The Mouth

(3,148 posts)
34. The only utter fool is you
Thu Mar 23, 2023, 09:07 PM
Mar 2023

The only explanation for your idiotic refusal to see what is important is that you must be a trump-bot. either that or a complete nincompoop.

The Economy matters. Everything else is logistics. Fail to get inflation and energy prices under control and hello to a one-party Republican state.

Gas prices matter. Inflation matters. The middle-class matters. The U.N., the twits at Davos, and you can go to hell unless and until every working man and woman I know has complete financial security.

I care about the guy driving to a job and the big rig bringing food and necessities to working people at a reasonable price.

About your opinion, I could not care less. Being called a 'fool' by the likes of you is like being called a crook by Trump.

Warpy

(111,236 posts)
11. Sounds like the movers and shakers know
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 03:46 PM
Mar 2023

how unsteady everything is getting and how a few collapses here and there can bring everything down.

Nobody knows what to do in a major collapse until it's over and whatever has been salvaged is added up. I don't know if we're headed to the Big One yet, my own gut feeling says not. However, one is coming, nothing this topheavy can stand for long.

FredGarvin

(471 posts)
13. All banker troubles have always been solved by bailouts
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 04:39 PM
Mar 2023

CS is rocketing highers as we speak on bailout news.

Up 31 percent from todays lows.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
18. I paid $3.49 near where I live here in Philly
Wed Mar 15, 2023, 05:27 PM
Mar 2023

which was down a bit because it had shot up last month.

Thankfully I'm only topping it off about once every couple months since I retired and haven't done any extended trips, although I still need to take it out "for a walk" about every 7 - 10 days to keep the battery charged.

Bengus81

(6,931 posts)
22. Just as I predicted the price at the pump here hasn't dropped one GD cent
Wed Mar 22, 2023, 09:00 AM
Mar 2023

At one time a barrel of oil was 14.00 lower,now back up some but still 10.00 lower that the first days of March. This is in Wichita where QuikTrip runs the show on gas prices.

Nothing but a RIP OFF.........

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
23. Well technically the price for bbls of oil
Wed Mar 22, 2023, 09:15 AM
Mar 2023

is not necessarily reflective of the price of that specific refined product (gasoline), which is up to those "middlemen" (in quotes) who further process it and distribute it, although a good chunk of them are from the same companies that drill for the crude and refine it too.

When I was out yesterday running some errands and taking the car out on its "5 mile drive" to keep the battery charged ( ) I saw prices around where I am in Philly and the closet rim county, running about $3.37/gal.

This type of pricing strategy always has that sharp "peak" at the front end and has a looooooooonnnnnnngggggg tail at the back end when it comes to getting the price back down again.

Bengus81

(6,931 posts)
24. It's reflective when a barrel of oil goes UP--especially $14 per barrel
Wed Mar 22, 2023, 12:11 PM
Mar 2023

No way it stays the same price at the pump with big upward increases.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
25. That would still be up to the gasoline wholesalers/retailers to shoot it up like that
Wed Mar 22, 2023, 12:23 PM
Mar 2023

although the degree that they do it can vary. There have been times during high prices where a station in some random locale, will suddenly "announce" they are selling 99 cents/gal gas and that might result in a line of cars stretching around and then down a block for a mile. So it's an individual decision for how much they plan to charge at any given time.

I hate to see what is going to happen ahead of summer when some states switch to "summer blend" which costs more due to the types of additives included in it.

Yavin4

(35,432 posts)
26. US gas prices at the pump depend on if a Democrat holds the White House.
Wed Mar 22, 2023, 01:09 PM
Mar 2023

If it's a Democrat who wants to help people, then prices will soar.

If it's a Republican who wants to give huge tax cuts to the rich, then they will hold prices steady.

This is sarcasm.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
29. The worst thing we could do is promote or hope for cheaper fossil fuels
Wed Mar 22, 2023, 06:08 PM
Mar 2023

The future of our children, our grandchildren and millions of species of plants and animals depends on us keeping that shit in the ground. And when oil is cheap, we inevitably burn vast quantities of it.

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