‘Armed Teacher Training Program’ Launches In 15 States

[Redfairen]

Source: Think Progress

An Ohio gun owners’ group is launching an “Armed Teacher Training Program” to instruct teachers and school staff on how to shoot off firearms in the classroom.

Perhaps at the outlandish suggestion of the National Rifle Association, who last month called for armed guards in every school as a response to the tragedy at Sandy Hook elementary, such programs are popping up around the country. In Ohio, the Buckeye Firearms Foundation, along with a group called the Tactical Defense Institute, is crafting a curriculum specifically designed for teachers and school staff. A local Fox affiliate has details on who is signing up– they report that more than one third of the applicants are women, and that “more than half of the applicants work in high schools”:

As of Wednesday, the Armed Teacher Training Program has attracted more than 600 applicants from several states including Ohio, Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and West Virginia.

“We knew this would be popular, but the response has exceeded out expectations,” said Jim Irvine, Chairman of the Buckeye Firearms Foundation. “People doubted if we would fill the first class. That happened in hours. This is something many in our schools have been asking about for a long time.”

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/02/1384531/armed-teacher-training-program/

[Cleita]

1. The stupidity of our nation sometimes astounds me. eom

[Jefferson23]

2. Too sad for words, too dumb an idea for words too. n/t

[onehandle]

3. It's ok. There may be thirty or so children in the room, but they're small targets. nt

[BeyondGeography]

4. Women in high schools

Surrounded by boys who can overpower them and take their guns.

Sheer genius.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Exactly.

As tragic as Sandy Hook was, I have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than of being attacked by a crazed gunman in my classroom. And a far greater chance of a student taking a gun from a teacher than the teacher using it to defend herself and protect her class.

[Mojorabbit]

29. That seems a very sexist comment.

We have lots of women in the armed services who seem to do well in the war zone without being overpowered and disarmed. I think having arms in schools is crazy but your post certainly gives me pause.

[roguevalley]

32. actually, that comment isn't so far off. The ones you speak about are soldiers

who are trained. Teachers are just people. In nearly 30 years of teaching I saw a lot of fights by boys and even a few girls. Getting into one is a license to be beaten up and sued.

An old high school man teacher once said, "I let them beat the crap out of each other and sweep up the residue."

I've seen woman teachers decked. I once saw my principal who was a complete dick losing a brawl on the floor with a first grader of mine. I looked at him and said, "Robert, you want to come with me?"

He paused and said yes. The kid got up and we went to my room. The principal was a big man but he was losing.

Some things are true just because they are, gender be damned. I however always was able to manage any threat to me. I have 'the look'. Even parents backed off. But I'm old school that way.

[Mojorabbit]

34. I still disagree

Women excel in many physical areas. I know many of them. If the poster had said teachers in general it would be one thing but women were singled out. I was a nurse. I am not a big person but I have restrained men who outweighed me by over 2 times. In those days I weighed all of 115 lbs. I was taught how to do it. Singling out women is sexist in my opinion as a well trained woman would probably do better than a non trained male.

[reteachinwi]

36. Teachers are just people

My sister is a teacher. She was in the Navy reserve and was called up in 2007. She ran a prison for American soldiers who'd screwed up in Kuwait. Don't disrespect teachers please.

[Mojorabbit]

40. I agree

My baby sister ran an elite unit in Iraq that set up field hospitals and picked up wounded on stretchers and transported them off the battlefield to same.
All my nieces have black belts. They could easily take on most of my nephews who are much bigger than them.
It is the physical condition and training, not gender. Peace, mojo

edited for spelling

[TM99]

35. Not really sexist

just more reality based.

Yes, there are women in war zones but few in combat situations. Those that are have had training in both weapons use and hand to hand combat.

The reality is that there are more female primary and secondary teachers. Even with basic gun training, few if any have had hand to hand training as well or gun training to the degree of a military personnel, and therefore, there is going to be a higher probability of them being over-powered by a 6' tall 185 lb. male junior hell bent on getting her gun and doing something tragic.

Please remember that in Newton, several female teachers and administrators attempted to throw themselves at the gunman and disarm him. All failed.

But beyond that, it is a crazy and very stupid idea to put armed teachers in the American public school system.

[reteachinwi]

38. Don't tell

my sister. I agree that arming teachers is misguided.

[bemildred]

46. Anyone can be taken if they are not prepared.

And nobody is prepared all the time, we have to do other things. This is particularlly true of teachers, who have to try to teach. My wife is a 64 year old substitute teacher, 5' 2" in "bad" schools, and a gun would do her no good at all unless she sat in the corner with it in her hands all the time so as to be ready. They don't touch her because a.) she is nice, and b.) she is not threatening, and c.) they know they will go to jail. A gun would just endanger her more.

[Mojorabbit]

64. I totally agree it is a bad idea

My beef was with the "little woman" type comment which I thought was sexist. mojo

[bemildred]

67. Well, yeah, but we men do need to be careful how we handle women, most of us.

We're bigger and stronger and we can do harm. I strongly favor gender equality, but there are some differences that need to be kept in mind besides where you're convex or concave. So while I don't approve of men looking down on women, I do approve of men being mindful of what they do. I have chewed my wife out more than once for getting in my way when I'm working because I don't want to hurt her and I can't watch her when I'm working on something else.

Edit: to be clear. I'm 6' 2" and around 200 lb., shes 5'2" and around 110 or 120.

So I think you have to look at the intent of the speaker sometimes.

I do see your point, I think it's iffy, borderline, but there is nothing wrong with raising the subject, it is relevant.

[HockeyMom]

50. How many 50, 60,

or even 70 year old women are in the military? The music teacher where I used to work was 74 years old. Think a male HS kid couldn't overpower her?

[Mojorabbit]

65. My beef was that being a woman was singled out

A 70 year old man would not fare well either.

[marshall]

55. Hopefully they can also learn martial arts

Assuming that are surrounded by boys (and perhaps some girls) who are there to overpower them rather than learn, they need hand to hand combat skills more than guns.

[slackmaster]

56. Use of a firearm for self-defense IS a martial art

And there is a lot more to it than learning how to draw and fire a weapon.

[Mojorabbit]

66. I hope they do not have to have weapons in school period. nt

[heaven05]

5. man!

right on.

[grahamhgreen]

6. Money talks. Anyone else see a connection between Big War and the gun nuts?

IMHO, this is exactly why we should be cutting funding to the war nuts. These industries overlap. when we fund big war, we fund the gun lobbies.

[tavalon]

7. Teh stupid, it burns.

[mbperrin]

8. Armed guards, or in the case of our district, trained sworn officers, makes some sense.

"Saving" money by making teachers be guards as well is incredibly dangerous and really just provides a ready weapon for gang members, for one. For two, it mixes up the student idea of who and what a teacher is.

I'll retire before anyone makes me do this. And I love my job right now.

[HockeyMom]

10. Don't regret quitting

I don't think I would want to work in a Florida school with armed teachers and staff. An armed Deputy outside in a squad car (which there were) is one thing, but a teacher or cafeteria worker? No, thanks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. If they do that here, I'll be out front protesting.

This is insane.

[madmom]

11. I would want to know if any teacher

my kids are assigned to carry during school hours. If they do, my kid will NOT be in their class.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I know teachers who are licensed carriers.

And not a one of them wants to carry in class.

Just a really stupid idea. I wouldn't want my kids in that class either.

[jtuck004]

18. Imagine the liability when they drop their weapon, and they will.

Plus you have a whole school of kids trying to learn as they grow, and now drop guns into the mix...

I wouldn't put it past a few of the kids I went to school with to assault a teacher (you have to turn your back sometime) and steal the gun. I would very nearly make a bet on that one.

These things will happen...and while a school system might think that they can limit liability, I don't think they can for negligence. This is going to create a whole growth industry for lawyers beyond the dangers introducing at the school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. That's exactly my first thought

Which little darling is trying to figure out how to get that gun away from me?

[jtuck004]

22. Look at what they do for a grade. Imagine the effort for a gun. n/t

[HockeyMom]

68. As a TA, I wouldn't work with a teacher who is armed

Plus, what happens when the kids aren't with the teachers, as in the playground or cafeteria? Armed TA's, or Lunch Ladies too? No, thank you.

[Reio88]

14. A gun in every situation

Something they tell police recruits.

Keep in mind that no matter where you go or how simple the situation, there is always at least ONE gun there ... yours.
That means every single encounter has the instant potential of becoming a weapon involved conflict.

I have heard of bad ideas before but this one is beyond ignorant.

The last thing we need is a gun in every classroom.

Why not just put an assault rifle in a glass cabinet nest to the fire extinguisher one?? Maybe next to the drinking fountains.

[Left Coast2020]

15. Just wonderful.

Lets put everyone in a room knee deep in gasoline and give them all a book of matches.

What the F*** every happened to common sense in this country. We certainly are lacking in critical thinking skills training. So WTF? Another step backwards?

Did I every mention that the cops in China do not carry guns?

[jmowreader]

45. If they're like Korean cops they don't need them

When I lived in Seoul, all the Korean National Police officers were skilled in tae kwon do. There were three levels.

Cops below black belt carried .45s.
Cops who held junior instructor or instructor rank were allowed to carry .38s or .45s and most carry the smaller gun.
Masters and grand masters weren't required to carry guns.

The motorcycle officers were the best: little bitty guys on 80-inch Harleys.

[Reio88]

16. Whats your curriculum and NRA score ?

So Mr. or Miss or Mrs. teacher

We see your educational background is good.
Letters from previous schools and professors impressive.

But ...

Gosh your last range score is just too low for our standards.
Perhaps a little less time at the books and more time on the combat course.

When your reaction time and kill shots improve call us back.

Might we suggest an MMO game ?

[GreenStormCloud]

17. PREDICTION: Nothing will happen.

Some teachers may take the course, and that isn't a bad thing. But they still can't carry in a school. For that to happen school boards and/or legislators will have to change regulations and laws. I don't see that happening on a large scale basis.

A few schools, here and there, may change to allow it. Nothing will happen. Harrold, TX school board, in 2007 voted to allow teachers to carry concealed. Nothing has happened there.

[rightsideout]

30. Good point

The teachers can take all the gun courses they want, it's still up to some authority whether guns will be allowed in the Classroom. I heard in Texas it's allowed. Go figure.

My state wasn't mentioned but if it was and teachers were allowed to have guns, my kids would be outta there. Our high schools each have a School Resource Officer which are local city or county police officers assigned to each high school. I consider that OK but arming teachers and other administrators is whacko. The idiots suggesting this idea are paranoid gun maniacs just using the CT incident as an excuse for their obsessive compulsive disorder over guns. It's to the point where their obsession is carrying over to the general public. I don't want your guns near me!

A civil society that thinks it needs everyone armed obviously isn't civil, it's paranoid. I know there are lots of gun owners on DU but this is insane. When you glorify gun ownership to the point where you insist on arming the public you have gone out of your minds. You need mental help for your insecurity and paranoia. Each person carrying a gun in public puts me and my family's safety at risk. No different then second hand smoke.

They start doing this then parents should complain and pull their kids out of school. I would go so far as to break the law and keep my kids home from school then to allow them in a class with a teacher with a gun. That won't happen where I am but this whole idea is insane.

[GreenStormCloud]

39. Only one school in Texas allows it. N/T

[primavera]

48. Well said

It may well be the case that trying to instruct teachers to be commandos would have little direct, practical impact in school class rooms where teachers are not permitted to carry guns anyway. But that's beside the point. What's troubling is the attitude that the proper response to gun violence in schools is to arm everyone to the teeth. Our culture nurtures the fantasy that guns make us safer. We grow up watching characters like Clint Eastwood and Sylvester Stallone and Charles Bronson overcoming obstacles and righting wrongs through superior firepower and, on some subliminal level, many of us have come to believe that we, too, could make a positive difference if only we had more and bigger guns. That culture needs to change to reflect the reality that, far from making us safer, guns increase the danger of us coming to harm. Apart from placing weapons of mass destruction into the hands of "evildoers," even placing guns in the hands of well-intentioned citizens also increases the chances of harm, as studies have demonstrated that, in instances of life-threatening duress, people freeze up and shoot innocent bystanders, themselves, pretty much anyone but the assailant. Our culture needs to reflect reality rather than fantasy. The mechanism by which culture changes is positive or negative reinforcement of its movement in various directions. If we applaud (or remain mute) when groups advocate turning teachers into Rambos to improve safety, that deranged value gains legitimacy and the all too predictable next step will be for those groups to demand that teachers be allowed to carry guns into their classrooms. After all, what's the point in teaching them how to be Rambo if they can't carry the gatling gun that every Rambo needs to fulfill his/her mission of vanquishing the evildoers? Conversely, if we vocally and vehemently ostracize those who believe that gun violence is best addressed with a Hollywood fantasy, perhaps we can begin to gradually introduce some sanity into our gun-obsessed culture.

[slackmaster]

33. Stop making sense.

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[cantbeserious]

19. The End Of America Has Arrived - Repeal The Second Amendment

eom

[Coyotl]

21. Which country should I move to now? Spain maybe, or Peru?

It really is time to get the fuck out of this insane place!

[ladym55]

23. I just want to cry

When did we get so incredibly stupid???

And when the first children die in an accidental shooting, will we all hold a nice candlelight vigil?

This is rife with potential disaster, and we are actually giving it a serious hearing in this country. And I am SO PROUD that this initiative was sponsored by a gun owners' group from Ohio.

[Lifelong Protester]

24. This plan has no chance of working

It is utterly stupid to think that preschool children should be in school with an armed teacher. When one preschooler hits another one with a rock on the playground, we don't 'arm' all the other students with rocks!

Plus, this "more than 600 applicants" deal, wow. Out of an estimated 3.2 million public school educators. (EdWeek, July, 2011). I don't see 600 out of 3.2 million as addressing this problem. WOW, how popular this is, Mr. Irvine. Don't wet yourself!

[slackmaster]

57. How about a pre-school teacher who is unarmed but has been trained in how to disarm a gunman?

That's the real point, I believe.

There is a lot more to firearm training than learning how to draw and fire a weapon.

[NYC Liberal]

25. If teacher have to be cops/soldiers/Rambo in addition to all of their teaching duties...

we're going to pay them more, right?

Oh wait...of course we aren't.

[jtuck004]

26. Can the non-carry teachers demand a separate lounge? I would think their odds of dying

from an accidental discharge in the lounge might be as high as any room of students. Shooter might snag the hammer on the 9mm and pull it out with their handkerchief, or it drops on the floor when they take their shirt off to show you their new "From My Cold Dead Fingers" tattoo.

There will be accidental deaths, just haven't figured out whether it will be a student or teacher sacrificed first.

[rickford66]

27. of course

Where there's guns, there's accidental discharges ..... most are probably never reported. A friend of mine was hunting with another guy (I'll call Looney, because every one did) who was fingering the trigger on his shotgun while climbing over a fence .... the blast just missed my buddy. When we were young teens, Looney grabbed a pistol from a drawer, ran over to another kid and pulled the trigger several times. How did he know if it was loaded or not? I bolted and never went back into his house. I asked my buddy why in hell did he go hunting with him .... he just shrugged.

[GreenStormCloud]

37. You have been watching too many old, bad, movies.

Even in 1928 guns were being made that could only go off if the trigger was pulled while being held in the hand. Modern designs are drop safe and have been for a very long time.

[yellowcanine]

52. Not quite that simple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidental_discharge

Modern handguns are mostly drop safe yes. But many rifles and cheaply made handguns may not be. And it is almost inevitable that some of those teachers would be carrying cheap knock off guns unless there is an effective program to regulate what kind of gun the teachers are permitted to carry. Even then, not all counterfeits are so easy to spot so some are going to slip in for sure. Try googling "fake Glock" sometime.

[jtuck004]

69. Beats being delusional. Within the past couple years I can remember people dying

just pulling guns out of their cars. No human finger on the trigger. One killed himself in front of the gun store in OKC, the other shot his kid pulling a shotgun out for a romp in the field (I know, shotguns don't have drop safeties). One grabbed a 9mm out of a box...and on a call, years ago, we had to work around a gun that had fired into a wall after being dropped.

While such "safe" weapons are the rule, that's fine in a lab, but your contention would seem that a malfunction wouldn't be possible, that it will all work perfectly and not put millions of kids, teachers, visitors, vendors, and others at potential risk of being murdered accidentally by a teacher packing heat. And you know it won't, so don't waste my time.

It might only be 1 in 100,000 that do that. But you can't predict whether it will be incident #1 or #100,000 that does it - just a little experiment in social Russian Roulette, eh?

Yet we don't mind asking kids to be the test range dummies in this little experiment in horror. It's a nightmare that not even Jerry Farber would have imagined.

That said, you are correct. nearly overwhelmingly there won't be a problem from dropping. Statistically the most likely possibility is that kids or other teachers will be shot by a teacher who draws their weapon and fires, for whatever reason.

I'm a big believer in hanging on to guns, not against the government, but against far more local threats, but I'm not stupid nor willing to throw out reason to support dumbassery.

It's an extraordinarily stupid idea to arm teachers.

[JeffHead]

28. That makes 15 states that I wouldn't send my kid to school in.

[hay rick]

31. There's a right way and a wrong way to discharge a weapon in a classroom...

Who knew?

[icarusxat]

41. super teachers are already there in every classroom

Every teacher I have had the privilege to work with would do anything to protect their kids, and you don't need a gun to do that. I wish a legislator or two would spend a day in the classroom. They would have a whole new vision of how they could support teachers and save not only our children, but our country as well...

[Iwillnevergiveup]

42. Hopefully

cooler heads in the form of parents and school personnel will prevail. Majority of folks want MORE, not less gun control. And hopefully this will be seen for what it is - backlash against cooler heads.

Question: where is the teacher supposed to keep the gun during school hours?

Possible answers: on their person. Great way to intimidate kids.

Perhaps locked in their top desk drawer or filing cabinet. Better remember to keep it locked at all times. Hope there's enough time to reach for it if an armed intruder materializes.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

43. The first comment by El Cid at the end of the article

says it all:

"Conservatives don't trust teachers to teach well, but they do trust them to shoot well."

[go west young man]

44. I'm of the "school" of thought that the problem is psychological

and actions such as these compound an already mentally ill nation's problems. The irony is that we should be using our brains to resolve these issues and school is where your brain is supposed to become enlightened. Instead we let fear rule the day and put forth the message that violence is the way. It's a self perpetuating paradoxical problem. It's truly sad to see teachers embracing it. It doesn't send the right message in light of the 20 children's deaths at Sandy Hook. Those kids deserved better than this from our teachers.

The problem is similar to the death penalty. Truly civilized people do not sanction killing. The message people get is that killing is ok because the state sanctions it. We should be aiming so much higher than we currently are. Lady Liberty is closer to Medusa these days.

[sinkingfeeling]

47. And here's what our 5-year olds can see when then enter kindergarten.

Not a country I want to live in.

[yellowcanine]

49. So what will they do with their guns?

Is there any school district in the country which is going to permit a teacher to bring a gun to school? At best they will have to leave the gun locked in their car in the parking lot. What good will that do?

[slackmaster]

54. The mind-set, tactics, and other aspects of self-defense training are more important than the weapon

Please see reply #53.

[Recursion]

51. Meh. Nothing wrong with the course, and no school boards will really approve anything

A teacher taking this class isn't a bad thing, and no school board is going to allow a teacher to bring a gun to school anyways.

[slackmaster]

53. This is good news. Learning ANY mode of self-defense is helpful to anyone.

Self-defense classes of all kinds - Firearm, edged weapon, the various empty hand disciplines - All have some common threads that are useful to anyone.

They all teach and emphasize situational awareness - How to spot and avoid potential trouble before you get into a fight, because getting into a fight is usually the last thing you want to have to do.

I've been trained with firearms and edged weapons. I usually carry a knife, never a gun, but some of the defensive disarmament techniques, cover tactics, and use of improvised weapons could be useful even if I find myself unarmed and faced with an armed attacker. I feel more confident since taking those courses.

Other important lessons common to all self-defense disciplines include moral and legal aspects of the use of deadly force, and how to behave, what to say and what not to say, after you have successfully defended yourself or someone else.

Education is a good thing. As to whether or not teachers or other school employees will ever be allowed to actually carry weapons in classrooms, that is a matter for the states and localities to decide.

[yellowcanine]

60. You are assuming that these schools springing up are going to have legitimate programs for

self defense training and are not just scams designed to separate anxious people from their money. Based on the history of all kinds of "self-help" programs, I would not be so sanguine.

[slackmaster]

61. The thinkprogress article is as usual short on specifics, but examples I've seen in other sources...

...all appear to be established training programs.

Sorry but I can't provide links. It's all on the Web.

[yellowcanine]

63. "...all appear to be established training programs." Of course they do.

"It's all on the Web."

Can't tell you how much better that makes me feel about this. Thanks.

[yellowcanine]

62. I would also note that "situational awareness" for a classroom teacher

and someone walking through a neighborhood at night may not necessarily be the same thing. A classroom teacher has to pay a lot of attention to potential trouble in the classroom which may make it kind of difficult to be monitoring the security situation at the same time. As a former classroom teacher, I just can't fathom how a course in gun handling is going to be of much help protecting my students from a shooter carrying a semiautomatic weapon barging into my school when I am in the middle of supervising a chemistry lab with all that goes along with that. I mean I am monitoring whether everyone is wearing safety goggles, etc., not looking out of the window to see if a potential shooter is walking toward the school entrance.

[hack89]

58. NC gun center overwhelmed after offering free gun training for teachers

CARY, N.C. — Some teachers in North Carolina are signing up for classes to carry concealed guns.

The gun center said so many teachers are signing up that there’s now a waiting list.

“Ever since we posted that we’re offering free classes for teachers, we’ve been absolutely crushed, inundated. Teachers want to learn about firearms,” said Molotov Mitchell of Triangle Krav Maga.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/nc-gun-center-overwhelmed-after-offering-free-gun-/nTkKF/

[slackmaster]

59. Krav Maga training would be very appropriate training for them

But if my name was Molotov Mitchell, I'd probably change it.