'Stand Your Ground' Linked to Increase in Homicides
Source: NPR
In 2005, Florida became the first of nearly two-dozen states to pass a "stand your ground" law that removed the requirement to retreat. If you felt at risk of harm in a park or on the street, you could use lethal force to defend yourself. The shooting of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., drew national attention to these laws.
Now, researchers who've studied the effect of the laws have found that states with a stand your ground law have more homicides than states without such laws.
Read more: http://www.npr.org/2013/01/02/167984117/-stand-your-ground-linked-to-increase-in-homicide
DryRain
(237 posts)The lawless nature of the law gives permission to almost anyone with a gun to shoot whenever and wherever they want, at home, in their condo complex, in the complex next door, in their car, in a parking lot, on the streets, waiting for a pizza. We have seen all of these in the last 12 months in Florida, and elsewhere.
Jim__
(14,075 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Homicides are the NRA's best friend.
DryRain
(237 posts)"stand your ground".
samsingh
(17,595 posts)jpak
(41,757 posts)Never mind...
billh58
(6,635 posts)SYG laws keep people safe. It says so right there in the Gungeon, and we know that they would never say anything that's not true....
kimbutgar
(21,137 posts)Thinking about taking cruise this year and I will not book a cruise leaving out of Florida. What others states have the stand your ground law? I have to visit Arizona every year to visit my husbands family. I refuse to go to bars and restaurants while I'm there between of the gun policies in the state.
Tempest
(14,591 posts)Look at statistics on successful SYG pleas. If you're white, you're right. If you're black, you're going to prison.
The law is blatantly racist.
obama2terms
(563 posts)thebard77
(37 posts)and I will use it if someone breaks into my home with the intent to harm my wife or child. It sits in a gun safe in the closet in my bedroom. home invasions do happen and people are shot and killed as a result of them. 2 weeks ago it happened 4 streets over from my home. The residents attempted to flee the home and were shot at by the invaders. If someone is intent on killing you trying to flee will only make it happen faster. The issue of gun violence and gun ownership is not as simple as banning guns or repealing the 2nd amendment. Chicago has gun bans and there were 500 murders last year alone. I rage against what happened in Newtown as much as anyone. I hate the NRA for being a bunch of lobbying pricks. However, everyone has a right to defend themselves. Ban military assault weapons. I'm cool with it. However, stop pretending that stand your ground laws are a bad thing. Abuse of the law is the problem. Not the law itself.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)billh58
(6,635 posts)almost verbatim. SYG is indeed bad legislation, and allows for vigilantism and stalking like your man Zimmerman displayed. SYG goes hand-in-hand with concealed carry for those Rambo wannabes who dream about saving damsels in distress. The statistics (which the NRA and its drones like so much) show that municipalities with SYG laws have a higher incidence of homicide. More guns equals more gun deaths and more gun violence.
The "Chicago" NRA talking point has nothing to do with their existing gun control laws, but with gang violence and easy access to guns. Where do you suppose those guns came from? Maybe a gun show? Or, a "private" sale with no background check? Or maybe stolen from a careless "legal" gun owner?
OTOH, castle laws for home protection are fine, and always have been. But guns in the home also need regulation to ensure both responsibility, and accountability.
Contrary to the NRA, the 2nd Amendment does NOT prohibit gun control -- in fact it demands it ("well regulated" . The NRA is the only organization that prohibits gun control, and it does so by buying and bullying politicians at all levels of government. The NRA is our enemy, and not the law-abiding gun owners in America who will not be upset with sane gun control measures.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)SYG doesn't apply to Zimmerman, outside the initial use/claim of it by Wolfinger (the DA) to dismiss the responding officer's writ recommending he be charged, the night of the shooting.
It has impacted the issue in no other way. His defense is not using SYG at all.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57492488/george-zimmermans-attorneys-wont-use-stand-your-ground-defense/
O'Mara, his attorney, has stated multiple times he will not use it.
Personally, I do not like 'SYG' laws for even THAT reason. In my home state, we have no Duty to Retreat, but we also have no SYG law. So if you are involved in a claimed Justifiable Homicide, you will likely have to explain yourself before a grand jury. I like that. What we DON'T have, that SYG laws in some states offer, is civil immunity, in the case that the person who killed someone in self defense, did so when no criminal complaint stood. (Carrying lawfully, reasonable exercise of force, etc)
Tempest
(14,591 posts)And if it fails he plans to go with self-defense.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Great. You are correct, changed in August.
Tempest
(14,591 posts)I think that woke him up that he really has to work at defending this POS.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If you want to take your gun out on the street, only you know what your intention is.
Someone else who is carrying their gun may figure out that you have one and shoot your first and then claim he is standing his ground. That is what these numbers, this study suggest is happening in stand your ground states.
When you carry a gun, you add to the numbers of guns on the streets. The more guns on the street, the more likely there will be accidents and intentional gun use.
Same with cars. If the number of cars on the streets in your small hometown in George is relatively low, you will see fewer accidents than we do in LA where the population is high and we have many, many cars on the streets no matter the time of day or night.
The more guns you have, the more shootings you will have. The more cars you have, the more car crashes you will have.
So, keep guns off our city streets. Stand Your Ground law add guns to streets and increase gun use on the streets. That's bad for all of us.
Tempest
(14,591 posts)Learn about each and then come back.
Only then will you have something to contribute.
oldbanjo
(690 posts)if you shoot someone that is in your house you will not have to hire a Lawyer and there can not be a Civil Suit. Before this law it would cost you $10,000 or more for a Lawyer to defend you.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--compare it to Florida. Better laws and far fewer gun deaths on the west coast.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)Castle doctrine means you don't have to retreat before defending yourself *in your home*.
SYG means the burden of proving you weren't defending yourself falls to the prosecutor, which is goddamned near impossible to do, unless you're an idiot and murder someone while on the phone with police in full view of dozens of houses.
You can support Castle Doctrine and oppose SYG. That's my position.
I thought they were similar. My mistake. Thank you for correcting my mistake without being a dick like another who responded.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)can't see what could possibly go wrong there
krispos42
(49,445 posts)The article is full of qualifications and maybes. The graph is suppose to be adjusted for "other factors", but we'll see.
A slight uptick is also not blood running the streets and mass-casualty events over a parking space at WalMart. The rational thought of this and other laws would that it would either provide a minor, hard-to-quantify decrease in crime, or a minor, hard-to-quantify increase in crime.
SYG laws are typically going to be in states run by Republicans, which generally suck in terms of education, employment, wages, mental and physical health coverage, law enforcement, and ideas such as maybe wifebeaters should go to prison for long periods of time.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Response to azurnoir (Reply #21)
oldbanjo This message was self-deleted by its author.
jody
(26,624 posts)Castle Doctrine
Study says, see http://econweb.tamu.edu/mhoekstra/castle_doctrine.pdf
Outcome data come from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports(UCR)and cover all 50 states from 2000 2010. Specifically, we use homicide, burglary, robbery, and aggravated assault data from the official UCR data published online by the FBI.
FBI UCR reports Expanded Homicide Data Table 10
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl10.xls
Murder Circumstances by Relationship, 2010
Total 12,996
- Of which 5,657 (43.5%) by Husband, Wife, Mother, Father, Son, Daughter, Brother, Sister, Other family, Acquaintance, Friend, Boyfriend, Girlfriend, Neighbor, Employee, Employer, Stranger, Unknown; Employer
- Of which 7,339 (56.5%) by Stranger, Unknown
Reference study does not mention domestic circumstances or other similar circumstances (43.5%) nor make a case for including murders under those circumstances as affected by Stand Your Ground or Castle Doctrine laws.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)Like they do every time they make a public statement or a public lie (I know, I'm repeating myself)
valerief
(53,235 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,679 posts)I mean, not the poster, the states that actually promote and sustain such ridiculous laws.
It's no way to live.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Let's see...a law that says "Anyone who you find threatening can be killed", in states where guns are everywhere, leads to more lethal shootings. As Condi might say, "No one could have predicted"
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)MisterScruffles
(76 posts)From what I have heard, most of the SYG laws do not have a first aggressor clause, whereas most of the "castle doctrine" laws do. Is this correct?