Biden On Guns: Executive Order Is On The Table
Source: TPM
Biden On Guns: Executive Order Is On The Table
IGOR BOBIC 12:09 PM EST, WEDNESDAY JANUARY 9, 2013
Prior to meeting with gun victims and safety groups on Wednesday, Vice President Joe Biden said that a White House commission on gun violence was weighing all available means to reform laws in the wake of the Newtown, Conn. mass shooting -- including executive orders the President may issue in addition to legislative remedies already sought.
"The president is going to act," Biden said. "Executive order, executive action that can be taken, we haven't decided what that is yet. But we're compiling it all with the help of the attorney general and all the rest of the cabinet members as well as legislative action, we believe, is required."
Biden is scheduled to meet with gun owners and representatives of the National Rifle Association, the country's powerful gun lobby, on Thursday. Mark Glaze, director of Michael Bloombergs Mayors Against Illegal Guns, told TPM last week that Biden's taskforce may present its recommendations to the President even earlier than expected.
We had been led to believe their report would come by end of January, but were hearing they may want to have something out by January 15, even quicker than expected," he said.
Watch the video:
-30-
Read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/biden-on-guns-executive-order-is-on-table?ref=fpa
Kingofalldems
(38,451 posts)Pachamama
(16,887 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)The OP proves Alex was right on Piers Morgan. The evil government is gonna take our gunz and kill us. Everyone's free cellphones are in the mail:
Tune in to the Glenn Beck Show to find out the solution to the coming NWO Obama Deception Police State FEMA Camp Georgia Guidestones End Game.
Wait, those are part of the Alex Jones film series. Okay, we can forget Glenn Beck then.
Apply and liberally as needed.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)I think this is a slipper slope kind of action. We already have Obama saying he can
assassinate any American along with Congress/President laws that violates the 4th amendment.
The solution is for a bill to be presented, Congress votes, and the President signs...
I welcome discussion on my point of view...
mac56
(17,566 posts)"We already have Obama saying he can assassinate any American along with Congress/ President laws that violates the 4th amendment."
What are you referring to here?
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)There are many sources for this: The Atlantic, New Yorker, HuffPo
EC
(12,287 posts)join al quada? He was also declared an enemy combatant already by the previous administration.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)This will help with the basic info...
didact
(246 posts)Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)not your personal definition, but a legal one that protects non-terrorists from assassination.
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)And frankly, I care more about domestic policy.
My only complaint with foreign policy is when it siphons funds away from domestic policy.
I have no moral qualms about drone strikes or military intervention, but I understand why others do.
It's a realization to which I've slowly come over the past few weeks.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)"IF YOU ARE NOT A TERRORIST YOU GOT NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT YOU GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE???!"
I swear this site sometimes...
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)I'm completely indifferent to this issue.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)of the political situation in the countries in which these killings are occurring. The US is taking sides in a partisan struggle, not fighting a war. These are political killings.
If they followed due process, they would find most of their bombings unjustifiable. So they don't.
Akoto
(4,266 posts)... if you rely upon Congress to do something about the issue, what you can probably expect is a token gesture (if anything). Too many representatives are in the pockets of the NRA or others involved with the industry.
Look at Congress on any other issue. It's deadlocked on even the most reasonable of bills, simply for the sake of obstructing them. You think significant gun control legislation has a chance of making it through? I doubt it. That's problematic in light of the fact that such laws could save some lives.
(PS Edit: The anti-Obama potshot really does not benefit you from a point of wanting to discuss things.)
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)We are well aware of how Congress sucks. But an executive order on this could be damaging
on many levels.
And, on the pot-shot:
The more Americans rely on the truth - the better America becomes.
It started with Bush and it is continuing. Americans have to stop this
serious violation of our Constitution. And I don't care *who* is president.
WeekendWarrior
(1,437 posts)What is "the truth?" and why do you think you have a channel into it?
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)Anything else?
WeekendWarrior
(1,437 posts)Facts can be cherry picked and manipulated. I'd wager that 90% of what we see as the so-called "facts" is merely someone's version of them.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)And, can you prove your wager of 90 percent? Isn't that just blowing smoke?
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)mpdog
(8 posts)Sure.. Lets do away with the First Amendment as well.. We certainly don't want people with opposing views to be able to voice them..
brew987
(16 posts)This is the USA right? We have checks and balances to prevent a dictatorship. Just because you agree or don't agree with something doesn't mean you can just ignore our constitution and do what you want.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading. Just a couple of weeks ago someone was posting how they did not care if they were being spied on. Most of this board would gladly do away with the second amendment, don't care if we are dong away with habeas corpus, and now want to give the President more power. That will work out well when we have our next republican president. I am just appalled at some of what I am reading lately. Maybe I am just getting old but never in a million years when I was a kid in the 50s and early 60s did I think we would come to this with even some on the left advocating for drug testing of fellow citizens and all of the above.
My post was meant as sarcasm.. Sorry I did not tag it as such.. The way the sheep have been giving away rights for the last 20 yrs I can see how my post could be perceived as serious..
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)All because you don't get your way? Come on, we're adults here - we change laws via the process. Look at all of the violent action taken by the anti-choice movement against providers of abortion. Their sole justification is that they disagree with the Court ruling and think it should be illegal. So they justify in their minds the harassment and terror they inflict on those providing or receiving abortion services.
We are better than them!
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)we shall get that ruling.
this has nothing to do with privacy, as gun folk want people to know they have a gun
as they think it's protection, same way people who have alarms plaster their windows with stickers that the house is wired, therefore they want publicity, making it not a privacy issue as gun folks don't want privacy, they want their itchy twitchy fingers on their guns,to protect htemselves, and are Tres Vocal about it
the NRA folk are getting desparate needing to hide behind woman's choice, aren't they?
The courts interpretation of the 2nd Amendment has absolutely no effect on your freedom of speech..
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)You seem to type just fine.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)Xithras
(16,191 posts)They can only be used to define (or refine) powers already delegated to the Executive branch by Congress. Harry Truman famously tried to nationalize steel mills during the Korean War by an Executive Order. That led to Youngstown vs. Sawyer, in which the Supreme Court ruled that the attempt was illegal, because Congress had not passed any laws giving the President authorization to seize or control private property that way.
The President could NOT, for example, issue an order seizing all guns, or instituting new taxes on guns, because those powers are not given to him or are reserved for Congress. However, the BATF and FBI are under the Executive, and Congress HAS given them powers to implement background checks and register some types of firearms. The President COULD potentially implement an Executive Order that expanded these, so long as his order didn't try to override any existing laws.
He certainly has some room to work within the confines of his existing powers, so it will be interesting to see what the White House can come up with.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)This is what my concern is. Executive powers is limited in this instance and great
care must be taken. Overstepping this power could be very detrimental for this, the gun
case, but for other cases as well.
My point is the Obama and all presidents must take careful consideration on
executive orders.
CitizenPatriot
(3,783 posts)can kill people?
Just wondering. I know he issued a signing statement clarifying NDAA language (in the opposite direction, btw). But a signing statement is not an EO. Link please.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)Please see my post #21
CitizenPatriot
(3,783 posts)that you explain it if you're not going to link to it.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)The search I did: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=obama+can+assassinate+americans&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Then,
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/eric-holder-yes-we-can-kill-american-citizens-without-trial/
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/05/10585197-holder-us-can-legally-kill-americans-in-terror-groups?lite
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/constitutional-expert-president-obama-says-that-he-can-kill-you-on-his-own-discretion-he-can-jail-you-indefinitely-on-his-own-discretion.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/10/the-secret-memo-that-explains-why-obama-can-kill-americans/246004/
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/08/kill-or-capture.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/us-targeted-killings-eric-holder_n_1320515.html
I hope this helps...
billh58
(6,635 posts)VP Joe Biden sincerely appreciate your thoughtful and insightful concern about something that hasn't been either decided or published as yet.
With the swarm of NRA/Gungeon recruits recently, we haven't seen too many concern bots on DU. Welcome, and enjoy your stay...
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)First, you have assumed incorrectly. I believe you are suggesting that I am a
'NRA/Gungeon recruit'. You will notice I did not mention anything about 'guns' in
my post.
Some people, Bill, just think harder and longer on subjects. Maybe that is why I am a Progressive.
Since Bush, our Constitutional rights have been burned in front of our eyes and, and, We the People
have not 'screamed' our opposition.
Because 'guns' are in the Bill of Rights (you can find that here incase you have never read it: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters.html) it is not only a 'gun' issue, it is a
Constitutional issue, and a Presidential Powers issue. And I am absolutely correct, in all respects,
that the 'Executive Orders' solution has to be very carefully weighed. Do you have a problem with that?
Remember that in 'disasters and chaos', hastily made decisions are not always the best. We need a well thought out
solution to address the gun issue in America.
We have three branches of government each designed to provide checks and balances on the others. And
the People should and must be the ultimate check and balance by loudly voicing our opinions. I will *always*
voice my opinion on what I think is right.
So, Bill, please...be part of the solution. DU was once where we could have intelligent conversations and debate.
billh58
(6,635 posts)The remainder of the "concern" bots should be joining you soon -- as quickly as they can sign up for new accounts...
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)..that you like to rag on posters, Bill.
Have you ever thought that maybe your opinion (on DU'ers) is wrong?
Are you really able to determine that 'somebody is a 'bot''?
I read where you claim you are a Vietnam veteran. Are you just angry at the world?
billh58
(6,635 posts)You have had this account since 2009 and 174 of your 174 posts have been within the past 90 days. How many other accounts do you have on DU? Did you just "wake up?" From the tone of your posts, it appears that you have an intimate knowledge of DU and many of its members. Have you been lurking and just recently become "very vocal" about the possible use of Executive Orders concerning the gun issue and gun control?
You see, I have seen all of these "symptoms" before, and a huge increase in "bots" over the past few weeks since gun control has become a real possibility. So, yes I AM able to determine the presence of a bot with some degree of accuracy when the warning signs are so evident.
On the other hand, you may just be an annoying anti-President Obama poster on a mission from God. Who knows, or really cares? This conversation is over as I am placing you on ignore now, but I have a feeling that you are already there under other screen names...
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)It has to pertain to the executive branch. The assault weapon ban has to go through congress.
Great Caesars Ghost
(532 posts)I may be a democratic socialist, but I am an armed democratic socialist with experiance in creating and repairing firearms.
bubbayugga
(222 posts)but he'll force them to take a position on it which is something.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)razorman
(1,644 posts)We may like a particular order that is issued by the president when congress will not do as we wish, on occasion. But, we must remember that precedent is being set. If President Obama can issue executive orders to get around the legislature, then so can his successors, (including Republicans). There is a process in place for getting laws passed. It is not efficient or pretty, but it works (more or less).
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)that the admin is willing to risk kicking over a hornet's nest on this. I don't know, maybe it's necessary.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Than Congress realizes it can get it's way, again, which bleeds into things like the debt ceiling. We have a congress that is hijacked by fatcats, be they NRA or Wall Street, and the president will need to kick the hornet's nest to get anything done.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)I'm thinking about how this will converge with the Newtown CT deniers who are in the news right now, and in general the meme that the pro-gun side has always promoted even before he was elected about "Obama will take your guns away". It could be a volatile mix. I'm just wondering whether taking an action like this could set off a "gun war" or somesuch. That would be highly ironic.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Fuck the obstructionist teabag House.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #9)
Post removed
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)when he made executive orders.
Go way you POS rightwingslug.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Redford
(373 posts)Coyote_Tan
(194 posts)Affects to be felt in 2014
As much as I support the president this is a VERY risky move.
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)That would be typical for what is considered progress in modern day America.
klook
(12,154 posts)Don't you mean magazines??!!1/1!?!?!!?/!?
... because only those who can describe various models of bolt-action vs. automatic & semi-automatic rifles in exacting technical detail are qualified to have an opinion on these matters, of course.
BTW, yours is (depressingly) the most convincing prediction I've seen for what we can expect from Congress.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)It's great to have a president with the balls to take on these death-loving yokels.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Impose public health measures on them. Period.
rightsideout
(978 posts)You would think after one of their own nearly died from a gunshot wound they would act but they didn't. They didn't because the National Reload Association is in the back pockets of many in Congress and they are scared from the uproar from the pro-gun community.
It's safer to steer clear of the issue altogether.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)First Congress is Congress refuses to deal with the issue than of course the Executive must act, doing nothing is not an option and watered down measures are ineffective...
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Most of the leadership gov. won't be back from holiday until next week. Wonder what the 3 or 4 things the VP said just about everyone agreed on? National registry from past gun sale records could be one. Require register for any reseller, used and gun-show guns another.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)DonViejo
(60,536 posts)Xithras
(16,191 posts)Executive Orders can only be used to refine powers already delegated to the Executive by Congress, and can't override laws passed by Congress. Both FOPA and the Brady Bill contained provisions banning all government agencies from creating gun registries, so implementing one can't be done without a new law from Congress striking those older prohibitions.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Last year Mexico was asking for the names and addresses of gun buyers in the usa, so they could bring charges against them. USA did not comply but maybe it was the gun sellers stores they wanted and the sales ticket info.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)The government does have records of some transactions, but they're deliberately not kept in any kind of searchable database in order to comply with the law. There's also no way to cross reference transactions (i.e., who bought what when).
It might have been possible to dig out some of the records that Mexico wanted, but it would have been difficult.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Also hopefully this will end up with less meddling from "interested parties" than Congressional legislation always ends up being.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)it will probably be ignored by a great many people and jurisdictions. He's the President. Not a king. He does have power. But he doesn't have absolute power. Nor should he.
He shouldn't be able to jail people indefinitely without trial. But you know what? Thanks to Congress, he can. What other powers would you grant him?
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)The President seems to be "the only grown up in the room".
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)the supremacists have their heads together...empty, or not. They've been waiting for a good excuse and my stomach aches just thinking about what they might do, let alone some other gun nut out there.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)They are very well protected but I have no doubt that action on gun control will amp up the amount of threats the secret service gets.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)especially because some sitting, should be jailed politicans have actually sent emails praying the president and his family dies.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)This will just feed all the paranoia that these people live on: Obama is out to take our guns.
I applaud this move; it's long overdue. If this is the only way to get the message across that war weapons are not an acceptable part of civil society, then the heavy hand must fall.
But still...this REALLY scares me.
VA_Jill
(9,965 posts)"here comes the imperial presidency," just like they do any time Obama even hints at executive action (which is legal).
Their boy Shrub signed 290+ executive orders. Just sayin'
thelordofhell
(4,569 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,338 posts)... well, not from "our sort".
I think the confiscation brigade was mostly limited to 9th ward. Probably not many Bush supporters there.
Socal31
(2,484 posts)Unless everyone here is too young to realize that the pendulum does swing back, and eventually there will be someone who will use that power in a way that disturbs you.
I just don't see an executive order that goes against the BoR. If he was going to to that, the day after Newton would have been the day...high emotions, etc.
I would prefer taking the House back so we can pass REAL regislation to end Obama's term. Stories like this fire up not only the (R) base, but many legal (D) gun owners.
This would be a case of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies...with no guarantee that you get to keep the pennies.
Joey Liberal
(5,526 posts)But they are always doing that here ......
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)passed by. The day of supporting a du nothing Congress should come to a halt, stup their pay until there is some progress. In delaying action on weapons bans is not protecting the majority of American citizens in order to allow some people to try to possess the biggest weapon. Then the gun nuts goes on different shows talking crazy and threatening, this does not look like they have enough control to own a weapon.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Response to DonViejo (Original post)
Post removed
fiddlesticks
(3 posts)The President does not need, have nor deserve the power to decimate the rights of any citizens by executive fiat. That is the province of Kings and Dictators. I can't even imagine the outrage in this community if Bush (or Cheney) had threatened to outlaw abortion of any flavor, or any number of other activities (does nobody recall the "First Amendment Zones"???
I guess it's okay if you're a {whoever's ox is not being gored}
Hypocrisy knows no political boundaries.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)Restricting licences and forcing background checks and lists of buyers, same with gun show dealers, then prosecuting blackmarket dealers. No one can take your guns or clips away, no one wants to go door to door. Crimes involving banned weapons can bring extended sentences without parole. You cant stop buyers, but you can hobble sellers. Gun Ranges can be licenced to not allow semi auto or automatic.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Does that sound like the martial law theme that is being pushed here?
The complete regimentation of everything and everyone, the national kill zone per Alex Jones?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Gunowner Rights Protected By ObamaCare
by Whoopie 9 January, 2013
Ive been hearing reports that primary care physicians are now required by ObamaCare to ask their patients if they own any guns and report that information to the government. The doctors are given forms that they must fill out and the question is a simple yes or no, there are no other options to allow for the patient to object or refuse to answer.
Ironically, it appears that the question itself is unlawful. There is a provision in ObamaCare called Protection of of 2nd Amendment Rights that was inserted in the law by none other than Harry Reid. He says he did it as a way to avoid the NRA becoming involved in drafting the law (apparently unbeknownst to Nancy Pelosi, the Democrat Party or the government printing office that created the forms doctors must fill out).
Senate Amendment 3276, Section 2716 part c reads: The government cannot collect any information relating to: A) Lawful ownership of a firearm or ammunition.
This puts physicians between a rock and hard place. By law they cant ask that question and yet, by law they must. Its a testament how clumsily drafted ObamaCare is. That nobody, from the Congress who passed it to the various agencies who enforce it to the individual citizens who are bound by it, truly knows or understands it.
See the CNN video at the link below. The OP video shows that with the NRA included in those meetings, the furor over this announcement is conspiracy theory hysteria. Flame away.
http://blurbrain.com/gunowner-rights-protected-by-obamacare/
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Claybrains
(132 posts)Doctors always ask about smoke detectors, smokers in the house, animals, seatbelts, but not guns.
Slippery slope.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Both the OP video and the article and video I posted show both the NRA and GOA are being invited to put their input to the President by the Vice-President. Gun owner rights are not being ignored.
Doctors long before the ACA asked people about smoking, drug use and alcohol so they would not prescribe medication that would harm or neglect their patients by treating them without all the facts. No, the ACA didn't set up Death Panels.
Slippery slope ending up here?
Claybrains
(132 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Claybrains
(132 posts)As a mother it just seems like it would be a natural question for a child's safety in the home coming from a doctor. Didn't think of it that way. Damn I'm not a troll-bot just because I new here.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I'm unsure of why that was the term you used, but is frequently used in a derogatory way. I didn't mention your post count, only the content of the post you made.
We've got a lot of CT here attacking Obama and Democrats for trying to have a dialogue on guns and a lot of anti-government sentiment. Why would you now talk about troll-bots?
I don't know who or what you're about, maybe I'll get to know you better later. Peace Out.
Claybrains
(132 posts)On the contrary, we need gun control. That's why I joined DU. Nice to meet you. I'll pick up on the lingo soon I hope.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)There is no conflict between the two at all. The physician has to ask the question and he/she will. The answer goes in the child's chart. Nowhere else.
In other words, the answers to that question by each patient in the practice aren't compiled in any list to be forwarded to any governmental entity or any other entity. The information is private, individual medical record information period.
You have to know the concerns of gun owners in order to know the reasoning behind this having been inserted. Reid knows gun owners. They don't like lists of their names being compiled for any reason, especially if there is specific information about the types and number of firearms owned and whether there is a gun safe or not.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Dr_Scholl
(212 posts)Congress won't get around to gun control for a few months because of the financial situation, and by that time:
1) Most of the public outrage will be gone
2) The Republicans (and many rural Democrats) won't vote for any gun legislation anyway.
D23MIURG23
(2,849 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)jpak
(41,757 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:51 PM - Edit history (2)
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)actslikeacarrot
(464 posts)...I don't think anyone can deny that.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Red Sox
(2 posts)With 310 million guns in the U.S., according to Slate Magazine, we will need to mobilize police and the military to take away assault weapons from the gun owners. If the Supreme Court rules that Obama's executive action is unconstitutional, he should ignore the five conservatives and complete the job of eradicating assault weapons for use by private citizens.
RandiFan1290
(6,229 posts)billh58
(6,635 posts)to you Mr. Troll. Hope you enjoyed your free pizza...
Great Caesars Ghost
(532 posts)2nd amendment repeal has no chance in the conventional way of ratification.
Ter
(4,281 posts)Then say hello to President Boner. Happy now?
Skyline
(35 posts)how exactly they are going to create law via EO? That is not possible.
billh58
(6,635 posts)they are considering implementing new regulations, and not laws. There is more than one way to skin a gun nut.
billh58
(6,635 posts)enjoyed your short stay with us. The pizza is on the house...
samsingh
(17,595 posts)enough is enough
samsingh
(17,595 posts)enough is enough