Ron Paul calls for diplomatic relations with Cuba

[Judi Lynn]

Ron Paul calls for diplomatic relations with Cuba
By Alana Semuels
January 26, 2012, 7:19 p.m.

Ron Paul took a risky position in Florida in Thursday’s debate, calling for communication and diplomatic relations with Cuba, saying that people's positions have changed dramatically over the last few years.

Paul said that Cuba isn’t going to invade the U.S. any time soon, and that Americans weren’t looking under their beds anymore, worried. Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich followed by pledging to continue the economic embargo on Cuba and to take any action short of military invasion to upend the government of Raul Castro.

Paul’s position is a potentially dangerous one in Florida, a state with a influential voting bloc of conservative Republicans from Cuba who have long favored aggressive policies toward Havana.

But a study of Cuban American voters in Florida suggests that Paul might be right, and that voters' opinions about Cuba are changing. Support for tightening the embargo dropped by roughly half between 2004 and 2008, according to a study by Benjamin Bishin, a UC Riverside professor.

More:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-ron-paul-diplomatic-relations-with-cuba-at-florida-debate-20120126,0,6939981.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews%2Fpolitics+%28L.A.+Times+-+Politics%29

[2ndAmForComputers]

1. Nope. Still crazy. Still racist. Still Republican.

He can fuck the hell off.

[MH1]

31. Yep, very much so, but zero chance of winning the nomination.

I do appreciate that he seemed to give the only sane response to the question about Cuba.

(Who was it lumping all the liberal South American leaders into one big pot of "EVIL!!1!!" ? was it Sanscrotum? I wanted to barf. So I took another long drink instead. Now I forget who it was.)

[EFerrari]

2. I doubt Cuba wants diplomatic relations with Ron Paul.

But how sad is it that only this wackjob has a sane attitude toward Cuba.

[arely staircase]

46. lol. well put. nt

[BadGimp]

3. there must be a Republican primary going on in FLA

oh wait, yes there is... go figure

[Xipe Totec]

4. A Ronnie come lately... nt

[RC]

5. As Democrats, Liberals and Progressive, what is our stand on Cuba?

Or are we just going to be obstructionists because someone on the other side came out in favor of diplomatic relations with Cuba?

[slay]

7. +1

personally i'm for relations with Cuba - we have no business trying to control the world. i think most liberals feel the same way.

[sabrina 1]

12. Well, mine is I think it's insane to keep up this attitude towards Cuba. People need to

move into the 21st Century and the only people being hurt are the Cuban people. Is that the purpose of all these sanctions, to hurt the people? Can't believe Americans are not allowed to travel there. People from every other free country in the world can travel wherever they like.

[ronnie624]

15. It is very, very odd to me that so many cannot see the truth of this matter.

Sanctions definitely target the people. The purpose for depriving populations of vital resources like food, drugs and chemicals for treating water and sewage, is to coerce them through hardship into deposing their own government. The act, by its definition and practice, targets civilians. The embargo against Cuba is a violation of every peace treaty the U.S. has ever signed forbidding coercion and aggression against other countries, including the UN Charter and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

[joshcryer]

18. Yeah, sanctions only strengthen a regime. Look at how the "blockaid" has been used...

...as an Emmanuel Goldstein for some 50 years or so. I don't think sanctions can ever be successful, the best way to have relations with a country is to be open that that country. If they continue then repressing their peoples, the peoples will rise up.

[joshcryer]

17. End the embargo, repeal Helms-Burton.

Obama has already lifted the travel restrictions so greatly that it's not even that big of a deal. Any American citizen can now send money to Cuban's, which was criminally illegal only 4 years ago. Helms-Burton is still a thorn in the side, though. Most Cuban-American's are anti-embargo, it's only a few holdouts who will die soon enough. Interesting how with the restrictions lifted Cuba has already started privatizing things. And no, it was not in the works, Raul surprised the world when he came out for it.

[vaberella]

21. And you don't think he's a tad bit self-interested?

And if he were to get into power he would be far from wanting diplomatic relations---not without privitization. I would be wary to trust a sexist, racist, homophobe.

[RC]

28. Sure, let's keep the embargo because a Loon on the other side says something in tune with reality?

Ron has all the power he will ever have now. He's not going anywhere else.
Think about it, Ron Paul is his own 3rd party. If he gets the nomination, he'll split the republicans in the general.

[Blue_Tires]

27. Full, open trade and relations

My stance has never been any different, nor has it changed because some far-right insane also-ran primary candidate wants to be a johnny-come-lately on the issue...

[PavePusher]

39. It's amazing to me that occasional tangential agreement with a republican on isolated issues.....

makes a democrat into a republican.

Or so some here would have it.

[slay]

6. Good - we need to do this

i don't get why people have to bash something good just cause it's Ron Paul. there are plenty of other things to dislike about Ron Paul and bash him about though.

[napoleon_in_rags]

10. Right? I swear he could have half DU defending baby cannibalism by advocating it.

I can hear it now "Ron Paul just doesn't want to eat babies because he might get a GAY one or a BLACK one!"

Here are the issues with him: Environment, fiscal policy, anti-choice. NOT civil liberties, NOT foreign policy.

[stockholmer]

14. +100000

Sickening, isn't it?

Red Team/Blue Team sheep on the march. with little to no discernment of true issues.

[slay]

22. It does seem that way at times

and my issues with him - which you listed - are enough to keep me from voting for him - but when he's right on stuff like ending wars, legalizing marijuana, and establishing relations w/cuba - i give the man credit. it's something obama and his people could learn from really if people would pay attention to what is liked about ron paul - instead of just wallowing in their own feelings of superiority over his flaws - which gets us nowhere.

[octothorpe]

35. I don't see anyone on this thread criticizing Ron Paul for his stance on Cuban relations...

I see people just being 'snarky-ish' about him in general, but no one saying his stance on this wrong. But there may other discussions I haven't seen yet. I don't even think I've seen the vocal opponents(here on DU) of the Cuban government come out against improving relations with Cuba.

[Blue_Tires]

26. I bash him because for all those feel-good Paul stances some DUers love

He's usually absent when it comes to substance and actually getting something done, despite having an outsized influence in his own party...

Just an example: For all his anti-war creds, just how many times has Ron Paul been a featured speaker at an anti-war rally? How many times has he even been seen at one? (Now think about all the times he HAS put in a speaking appearance at some birch/state's rights/quasi-Klan rally)...How many NORML conferences has he been to? And I could go right down the list of all his supposed "liberal" stances

For all his principles how has he never brought congress to a screeching halt or filibustered or whatever in an effort to show his distaste for the war?

[woo me with science]

29. It's faux discussion,

in line with what some apparently see as the new purpose of DU. There is no reasoning behind it, and you will see no attempts at reason in the posts.

It's all an emotional, visceral rallying for the blue team and against any perceived threat.

It's perfectly understandable if you accept the new role of DU as campaign central instead of a discussion board.

[napoleon_in_rags]

8. Good. That should be Dem position. nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. Oh, right. It's Republican Florida primary time.

Gotcha.

[MNBrewer]

40. You do realize that his is the UNPOPULAR stance in Republican Florida, don't you?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. It's politics. Here's an excerpt from an article in the Los Angeles Times regarding this:

Times they are a changing.

But a study of Cuban American voters in Florida suggests that Paul might be right, and that voters' opinions about Cuba are changing. Support for tightening the embargo dropped by roughly half between 2004 and 2008, according to a study by Benjamin Bishin, a UC Riverside professor.

Cuban Americans’ support for easing the embargo increased to 43.4%, from 26.7% in 2004, and support for easing travel restrictions increased to 47.4% from 32.9%, Bishin found. “Cuban Americans’ attitudes on issues of U.S. foreign policy toward Cuba seems to be in transition,” he wrote in a 2009 study.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-ron-paul-diplomatic-relations-with-cuba-at-florida-debate-20120126,0,6939981.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews%2Fpolitics+%28L.A.+Times+-+Politics%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

[ChadwickHenryWard]

11. We had this debate in the 1990s.

It was argued that since the Cold War was over, the policy was "archaic." Noam Chomsky noted at the time that the relevant issue was not its timeliness, but its morality. In the end, neither mattered and nothing was done.

This is one of the few reasonable things to come out of Paul's mouth. Add that to his halfway-reasonable position on foreign policy and his near-miss position on drug prohibition, and he's still the craziest person currently seeking our nation's highest office.

[BlueMTexpat]

24. +1 - both on the Cuba

issue and on the fact that Paul is still the craziest of the crazy.

But Cuba & Iran are Paul's "stopped clock" moments, IMO.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

33. I am never able to understand why people fail to see that,

at base, Paul is a career politician just like all the others. He has run for office fifteen times, and has served 21 years in Congress. So why do people think that he is some kind of outsider or fundamentally different than all the others.

Most of what he espouses is right out of fairy tales. He is a supporter of the Austrian school of economics, whose objections to Keynesian and Monetarist ideas have been discredited again and again by the facts. His view of limited government might not have been out of place 1760s, but his opposition to any and all social welfare programs and regulatory agencies puts him even to the right of Enlightenment thinkers like Thomas Paine. Even his favorable policies have some very deep flaws. While it is certainly a good thing that he is against war with Iran, he is more an isolationist than a pacifist. He is against even that paltry amount of money America gives each year in foreign non-military aid, and thinks that Israel is part of a global Jewish conspiracy. His position on drug prohibition is similarly mixed. While he is against the drug war, he thinks that the states should be allowed to prohibit drugs, which is hardly any better. Even his opposition to the Federal Reserve comes from a conviction that the government should not be allowed to regulate the supply of money. His laughable support for the gold standard has not a little to do with his extensive investment in gold and gold mines. He has repeatedly introduced a bill that would ban abortion. And I won't even bring up his newsletters. While he's not the only one spouting crazy (Newt would ignore Marbury v. Madison, for fuck's sake?) an inordinate amount of it seems to be coming form him.

[Uncle Joe]

32. I believe demographics are on the side of normalizing relations with Cuba. The people most

opposed to ending the embargo were the refugees streaming from Cuba when Castro took over, they're aging and passing on and I don't believe the younger generation of Cuban Americans in South Florida are as virulent about maintaining the embargo.

The younger generation; doesn't have the same emotional stake as their parents and grandparents, their first home is Florida, not Cuba.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

34. I have always marveled at the ability of Miami Cubans to set the debate on that issue.

Why are they the only demographic that matters on that issue? What about the whole rest of the country?

I do think it's changing, though. The Cold War is 20 years dead. Although, in truth, Cuba stopped being relevant once the USSR had the ability to send missiles over the north pole. At this point, we're just punishing them for something that happened 50 years ago. I'm surprised that there's still anybody who supports an embargo.

[Uncle Joe]

36. Cuba does have the best collection of 1950s era cars still running on the street.

It is sort of like a time warp, that we've been trapped in for way too long.

As to the relevancy of why Cuban Americans have mattered in this, I believe this is directly related to their historic passion about the issue and their concentrated location in an electoral rich state.

However as I posted above I believe the natural march of time and concept of home are diminishing that passion.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

45. Right. They care more.

It's not that they matter more than people in say, Omaha or Minneapolis, it's just that people in those places don't feel too strongly one way or the other. Plus, the only reason we're even talking about it is that people in Florida care, and the next primary to which we are going to be subjected is FL. It's the same reason we're talking about space.

I heard a thing on NPR a while back about these antique car guys that were trying to get permission to go to Cuba, so they could look at all the old cars and commend the Cuban people on taking such good care of them. I thought it was funny the embargo had brought those two groups of people, who normally would never have met, together over a common interest.

[Firebrand Gary]

13. Count me in. I am all for relations with Cuba.

The world is tired of prolonged conflict, especially since things have changed so dramatically.

[David__77]

16. There are probably plenty of paleo-conservatives sick of the right-wing Cuban lobby.

The fascist-Cuban groups are truly obnoxious and ever-so-demanding.

[Starboard Tack]

19. Lots of crazy guys have the occasional good idea.

Mussolini drained the swamps in southern Italy and eradicated malaria.
Hitler built the autobahns. Nixon expanded Medicare and Social Security.
But mostly they have really bad ideas.

[alp227]

20. That other forum hasn't picked up this story to scream "COMMIE RED PAUL!"

Clearly RP is the wrong type of red.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

23. Perhaps if the US' "foreign" policy had not been pulled from the roots of its founding principles,

that policy is policy, Mr. Paul's position would not be described as "risky."

The Constitution does not differentiate between domestic and foreign policy. In Article 1, Section 8, all power to make policy, is vested to the Legislature, and none of it to the Executive, who is nowhere to be found, until we read on to Article 2.

Noninterventionism is not isolationism; nonintervention is simply not interfering. Our forefathers advocated for peace and commerce between nations, and against entangling political and military alliances.

The obvious harm the results of being dragged time after time, into intractable, mindless and endless Middle East conflicts, should be clear to every rational human being.

You can find me, along with Mr. Paul, in Mr. Jefferson's camp on this one.

[Blue_Tires]

25. And now my question is has Paul *EVER*

taken a single step in his role as a congressman to even pretend for one second that he's serious? Or is he doing his usual "talk a good game" schtik and playing up his 'going against the grain' creds?

[former9thward]

41. Yes, he introduced a bill in 2001 to end the embargo.

Lift the US Embargo on Cuba
July 26, 2001
LIFT THE UNITED STATES EMBARGO ON CUBA -- HON. RON PAUL

Mr. Speaker, encouraged in part by a recent resolution passed by the Texas State Legislature, I rise again this Congress to introduce my bill to lift the United States Embargo on Cuba.

On June 29, 2001, the Texas state legislature adopted a resolution calling for an end to U.S. economic sanctions against Cuba. Lawmakers emphasized the failure of sanctions to remove Castro from power.

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/House/Texas/Ron_Paul/Views/Cuba/

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

44. Oh, he's serious...he has long record of glorious failures to show for his time Congress.

On edit: There is only one other rational possibility for announcing this in the Florida primary--insanity.

[nanabugg]

30. Two things I agree with Paul on: Cuba and Israel. After that he is Newted in my mind. nt

[Hugabear]

37. Cuba to start drilling for oil - coincidence?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16753646\

Once Cuba starts producing oil, watch how quickly rethugs change their position on Cuba.

Not only will they be tripping over themselves to normalize relations, they'll be pushing for a free trade agreement.

[Dreamer Tatum]

38. Excellent; maybe vacationing there will become popular again. nt

[mdmc]

42. ..

[X_Digger]

43. A stopped clock is right twice a day. n/t

[arely staircase]

47. he is right

unfortunately there is also:

"the sexual ethics of our youth have degenerated to the level of the ghetto (because) youth culture is already driven by ghetto music and ghetto values."

his solution?

"Every home should be dedicated to western standards of religion, music, values, education, dress and manners."

http://www.tnr.com/sites/default/files/January1993.pdf

but he's right about cuba. of course the whole cuba policy is a result of our electoral college system and the miami mafia.

[arely staircase]

48. how was this a risky position?

i know it isn't a popular position in florida, but since he has no chance of winning, what was he risking?