Oakland police, Occupy protesters clash - scores arrested

[alp227]

Last edited Sun Jan 29, 2012, 07:04 PM - Edit history (2)

Oakland police on Saturday fired tear gas and flash grenades at hundreds of Occupy supporters who tried to seize the long-closed Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center as their movement's new home. Nearly 400 people were arrested, police said.

(...)

The situation remained fluid well after dark, with police and demonstrators facing off on the downtown's otherwise empty streets. At one point, protesters broke into City Hall and vandalized the ground floor, overturning a model of the city and damaging an exhibit of children's art.

(...)

Speakers at the rally exhorted the crowd to fight economic inequality. The first speaker, Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz, took perhaps the most pointed stance, urging the crowd to fight the rich.

"Passionate, organized hatred is the element missing in all that we do to try to change the world," said Ortiz, a retired professor from Cal State East Bay. "Now is the time to spread hate, hatred for the rich."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/28/BASI1N00ER.DTL&ao=all

[unionworks]

1. O.K. that's the M$M version

...now will someone tell us what actually happened, please? Heart goes out to the Occupy wounded.

[FirstLight]

7. exactly

thanks for saying this...and yes, my heart goes out to them too. These brave souls... I am so grateful for their work and chutzpah.

[Cleita]

2. I was watching the livestream this afternoon and saw protesters arrested, shot with rubber bullets,

beaten with clubs and shot with tear gas canisters. If that's a low profile by the police, then I'm an Irish Setter.

[Magoo48]

3. Thank you for your courage Occupy Oakland.....

[Bennyboy]

4. streaming right here...

http://www.livestream.com/occupyoakland

[rhett o rick]

5. And there are those right here in DU that chose the side of the police and against Occupy. nm

[randome]

6. Then there are those who question why this situation was ever set up.

What does anyone expect law enforcement to do when a group of people try to take over a building for their own use?

All the good intentions in the world don't matter when law enforcement's job is to...surprise! Enforce the law.

[randome]

13. 'Relish'? Wow, that's quite an extrapolation.

Which doesn't address the fact that this is a needlessly combative situation on both sides.

It's funny you disparage the violence and yet rationalize it yourself. It doesn't matter what this particular OWS group was trying to do. All that matters is that a big fight is going on. How exciting.

[rhett o rick]

27. Are you getting these talking points from Hannity? Both sides are combative? That justifies the

police brutality? Are you daring to say that the police are violent because of Occupy violence? "It doesnt matter what this particular OWS group was trying to do". Pray tell us what they try to do that warrants brutal beating and inhuman treatment?

I am again disappointed that so many here in DU that claim to be Democrats, side with the corporations and their brutal police.

[randome]

34. The word 'combative' does not equate to 'brutality'.

It was 'combative' to try and take a building for their own use. It set up an inevitable conflict.

The police, as expected in large 'combative' encounters, over-reacted and the entire situation spun out of control.

If Occupy Oakland has any smart people inside it, they would have known this is exactly what would have occurred.

It has happened over and over again with the same result -injuries and arrests and both sides blaming the other. A kerfuffle.

[rhett o rick]

60. I am guessing you would have objected to the Black community

in the South sitting in the front of the bus in the '60's. How combative of them. I am guessing you think civil disobedience is ok as long as we get a permit and have a massive police escort.

The movement is going to continue with or without you. Trying to stay neutral is aiding the authoritarians.

[randome]

62. Stop trying to co-opt the civil rights movement for OWS.

The two movements aren't even close.

[rhett o rick]

64. Of course the purposes are different, but both are populist movements.

Again you hide behind rationalization. The movement is here. You can join or not.

[loyalsister]

113. As soon as the occupiers move on

and take advantage of the name recognition, there may be some comparison. At this point unjust laws are not being challenged. Violating practical laws only conveys a sense of entitlement.
The civil disobedience of the Civil Rights Movement targeted specific unjust, discriminatory laws and policies. They did not protest neutrally applied laws that exist to maintain civility and common good.

If inequality is really the issue, OWS protestors should make an effort to approach people in leadership positions with facts, stories, and manners.

[rhett o rick]

114. Are you suggesting they go home and email their "representatives"?

Those methods have failed horribly. Occupy is trying to wake up those people that are buying into the corporate media propaganda. Occupy is telling the overlords that ThePeople are not going to be slaves. Occupy is exposing the level of brutality the overlords are willing to perpetrate to prevent protesting.

And unjust laws are being challenged. Until Occupy no one was talking about the reinstatement of Glass-Stegall. No one was talking about the gross inequality in this country.

"If inequality is really the issue, OWS protestors should make an effort to approach people in leadership positions with facts, stories, and manners." You have a question as to whether "inequality" is an issue? Good grief. Read the signs. Read the signs. And you suggest that we should "make an effort to approach people in leadership". And what? Beg them for handouts. They are supposed to work for us. They dont. Approaching them is worthless when they are "approached" by corporations handing out cash.

Things are getting worse by the day. To keep trying the same actions that have failed for the last 30 years is insanity.

The movement is here, please choose the side of ThePeople.

[loyalsister]

115. OWS had raised awareness

But that's all. If inequality is really the issue, it is not being addressed by claiming entitlement to any and all property. "Approaching them is worthless" but continuing to squat in a park is productive?

There is now a name that could actually be used it to further some policy goals. If OWS wanted to function as an organization, they could register as lobbyists en masse. Suppose all of the sudden paid lobbyists are outnumbered by registered citizen lobbyists? Paid lobbyists may represent $ but citizen lobbyists represent voters.

Protestors could actually represent the 99% if they tried. Instead they would rather whine about how the system doesn't work and the police get to be obnoxious when you don't follow reasonable laws. The has nothing to do with systemic inequality that is driven by policy. What really is the relationship between taking over city hall to Glass Stegal?
If it's not obvious there is a public perception problem.

[rhett o rick]

117. I am sorry you feel this way. It's bad enough we have to battle the right but not to get support

from Democrats is discouraging. Ignoring the movement wont make it go away.

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. Marching and protesting and exchanging words with the cops, now that definitely justifies

police brutality, doncha know?


These cops are awfully thin-skinned, apparently, more likely just plain angry and or on a huge power trip given that they react so violently to these peaceful protesters.


One would think they would be grateful for the overtime and just let the occupiers march on, drums and all.

[Yo_Mama]

55. In denial?

OWSites staged a sit-in or a lie-in or something like that at a YMCA. They attacked a convention center, knocked down a fence and did some damage to some construction equipment. They attacked the city hall and broke in.

The reality is that most people don't approve of these measures, don't understand them, and agree that the cops have to stop it.

I have no idea why some in OWS are doing this. Bankers do not hang out at the Y. The city hall belongs to the people, surely? What was the purpose of trying to invade the convention center?

Sorry, but that's the truth as I see it.

Do you really expect the police to stand by and just let people invade buildings?

I don't understand what OWS is doing. I'm guessing it is a minority group driving these actions right now, but the more this minority acts this way, the more the peaceful people will stop marching and the more radical this stuff is going to get. Is the purpose to provoke confrontations with the police? And then claim police brutality?

[rhett o rick]

65. You have company not understanding what OWS is doing. The right doesnt understand it either.

The corporate media doesnt understand it either. I am not suggesting you are them, but it's not hard to find out what they are doing. And to even suggest that some damage to construction equipment warrants the brutality is absurd.

OWS is exposing the degree of terrorism the state (Democratic or Republican) is willing to use to maintain the status quo. The state is making no effort to listen to the people. The state is using brutality to scare the population into submission.

The movement is here and sooner or later you will have to choose a side.

[Yo_Mama]

68. Thankfully, I am not a dictator

So it is the general population that will pick sides.

What I am respectfully trying to suggest is that the general population will not pick the side that defies law in such ways. I still think OWS has a lot of potential support; I think that current activities such as this are going to erode that support very quickly.

Your answer implies that the current drive at OWS is to cause clashes with the police. The problem that I see is that doing so involves tactics by OWS that most don't support, and OWS will be increasingly radicalized by using those tactics.

What you are describing is not a non-violent movement.

[rhett o rick]

71. I in no way condone nor promote violence. Most involved in the Occupy

movement do not either. I recommend reading "Occupy: Scenes from an Occupied America", and nadinbrzezinski's essay: "Occupy: Guide to the Perplexed". Violence will happen and to date the body of Occupy has tried to prevent it. Very little violence of Occupy has been directed at persons.

The police response is not simply a response to prevent violence or to move people out of public places, the high level of police violence is brutality aimed at intimidation. And that's terrorism. The state will increase the level of brutality until the public is afraid to protest. The state can not allow the public to think they have power other than that afforded by the "system". The system controlled by the state.

I believe that everything is set up to have a dictator (unitary executive), just temporarily mind you. Until peace is restored. Today the president has the power to arrest and detain anyone determined to be a terrorist. Those in Occupy that are causing the unrest can easily be classified as terrorists via the Patriot Act. Pres Obama thought it was helpful or necessary to extend the Patriot Act.

[starroute]

80. There was no "sit-in" at the YMCA -- the cops had kettled people out front

And the Y employees opened the doors to enable some of the protesters to avoid arrest by coming inside and then going out the back way.

They did not "attack" a convention center. They had hoped to peacefully occupy a long-abandoned convention center, but never got close to it because the cops were already there ahead of them and fired tear gas as they approached.

The fence was knocked down by protesters frantically trying to avoid arrest. (See photo)

The one I'll grant you is that about 50 black bloc types did break into City Hall and broke some exhibits -- which is a type of action that most Occupiers are not comfortable with but which they haven't figured out how to prevent.

But "the truth as you see it"? Hardly. It's the lies as you get them from the mainstream media.

And that's not even getting into the unwarranted level of police brutality or their calling in riot police from other cities in defiance of a direct order against that. On the whole, the phrase "police riot" perfectly fits the Oakland cops.

[INdemo]

14. Somehow or someway It looks like a set up to me

Looks like the Occupy protesters could have been infiltrated by those that wanted a media spectacle and they got it...All this just seem too easy for the media

[worldbfree]

30. The police know how to play this game.

They know they can infiltrate the event using provocateurs, (plain-closed on duty officers), to initiate aggressive or violent actions which then justifies the use of lethal force, keeps public opinion of them Positive .("they are only doing their job ",as they claim to be, "Protecting private property and ensuring the safety of the people". They also know as well us the rest of us, that the M$M will accept and repeat their fictional account and not report the truth. They know that a tiny fraction of the population watches the event via a live-stream while CNN ABC CBS NBC and Faux will not question or investigate any of the allegations made by the police . In Oakland today for example they attempted to "Kettle" the people, i believe without any warning to disperse, in an empty lot but the marchers got through a chain link fence and continued to march until they were again kettled at the YMCA where mass arrests were made.They had no intention of occupying the fucking YMCA AS i JUST HEARD REPORTED ON CNN! also, the 19 people arrested claim is way off more like a few hundred. Yet, some how, with such a massive police response City Hall was left with its doors open and someone got in and burned a flag , threw some files & furniture around, (sounds fishy there too).The police from multiple forces around the bay area will be standing around "protecting " City Hall for the entire night even though the protesters have long since gone home or been arrested and taken away in buses, racking up the overtime buck and getting lunches delivered to them as they stand around.Then blame occupy for running up the budget as well.

[SammyWinstonJack]

51. Thank you but the poster you are replying to won't get what you wrote for reasons only known to him.

That poster always post negatively about OWS. Always.

[randome]

56. You characterize me wrongly, SammyWinstonJack.

When OWS actually protests, marching on Washington, etc. I am there cheering them on. When they do stupid stuff like trying to take a building for their own use, I ask why it is happening.

Objectivity is our friend.

[rhett o rick]

63. What is your definition of "actually protests", getting a permit and having a police escort.

You dont seem to understand the notion of civil disobedience.

[randome]

66. It doesn't include taking over someone else's property.

It's the Oakland police department's job to prevent anarchy.

Civil disobedience is great when it's targeted and has objectives. This 'notion' that a building suddenly belongs to one group because they say so does nothing to alleviate economic injustice.

It's an anarchist idea and the result was...wait for it...MORE ANARCHY!

[rhett o rick]

67. So the state justifies (as do some here) terrorism because there cant be any anarchy.

We cant upset the status quo. I think anarchy is a result of oligarchical overreach. How far are you willing to let our overlords subjugate us before you approve of a little anarchy?

[randome]

70. No one is trying to justify police over-reactions.

Our 'overlords' aren't the Oakland police doing their jobs. Wrong target. Wrong fight.

[rhett o rick]

72. When someone says that the police are just doing their job after they brutalize protestors

are rationalizing such. The police are not protecting the public but working for the overlords to intimidate and eliminate protests.

Well, they will allow small, orderly protests that have asked for permission to protest in special areas determined by the state.

[randome]

76. It's really not a conspiracy.

The police are working for the city and no one else. When they are in an impossible situation, shit happens.

That doesn't excuse it but it is inevitable when two combative groups collide. Like I said, it was clear from the start that it would end this way -the same way it has ended with every other confrontation between OWS and police.

Enough time and energy has been wasted on this nonsense. OWS needs to get organized but I know that's considered a curse to many of its members.

[The Doctor.]

91. And who runs those cities? Elected officials.

And who do elected official listen to?

No, it's not a 'conspiracy theory', it's a simple fact. Politicians get where they are by appeasing the powers that be. Right now, the powers that be are not interested in the OWS message being understood. So if they can create violent situations and blame OWS, they will.

[rhett o rick]

92. You marginalize the police brutality we've seen as "shit happens"?

And your authoritarian signature line says a lot. "Idealism is fine but soldiers win the war." So the sword is mightier than the pen.
But for every war won by soldiers, that same war was lost by soldiers.

OWS should get organized, get leaders and fall in line. That's exactly what the authoritarians are saying. The state is having trouble defeating a movement that is without organization, without leaders.

The rumors of the death of Occupy are highly exaggerated.

[MACARD]

111. both benefit and curse to not having leaders.

i like relating OWS to Civil Rights while their causes are different their methods are very similar, and the Police use the same tricks as they did in Civil Rights. the curse of not having a leader is not having a figure like Martin Luther King Junior, who can convince the rowdy protesters to be peaceful. the benefit no such leadership can be locked up.

while you can weigh the Pros and Cons of this one we have an interesting situation here Karl Marx has a Second Chance. Marx promised a revolution without leaders, a dictatorship of the People not a dictatorship of an individual. Fact is the situation with OWS is a lot closer to Marx's vision than was in Russia or China before their revolutions. the issue then become can the Communist Ideal survive the poison that is the American Societal Value of exploitation.

[2pooped2pop]

38. U Make sure you post every time you can against Occupy

at least we know what to expect from you I guess. I know, like you say, you really want OWS to succeed. Yet somehow you come out against them every time.

I don't even have an adequate term.

[rhett o rick]

69. The law can be enforced w/o brutality. The brutality is being used to terrorize the public

from protesting. Terrorism is an act intended to intimidate a population. Excessive violence, more than necessary to obtain the immediate objective, is terrorism IMO.

[dorksied]

74. Fighting the laws created by an unjust system is the duty of every true patriot.

But I'm guessing that you're one of those who take the side of the cops. Why are you even on DU again?

[randome]

77. Yeah, well, don't try and take my home away from me, okay?

How is it unjust to own property? I guess if that's your goal, then anarchy is your cup of tea. But I was under the impression that OWS was trying to promote economic equality.

[starroute]

81. The bankers are the ones in the business of taking people's homes away from them

And Occupiers in many locations have done their best to prevent foreclosures and keep people in their homes.

Do you have a specific reason for believing that Occupy is after your house? I'm curious.

[rhett o rick]

104. Occupy isnt trying to take your property. They are not trying to take away anyones property.

They are pointing out that the system is broken. The wealthy control the system. Your rationalization for your hatred of Occupy is sad. Unless you are one of the 1%, and you are sounding like it, Occupy is trying to help you keep your property.

I challenge you to read the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City and tell us where you disagree.

[MACARD]

112. just because you state something is your property doesn't mean it is rightfully yours.

"How is it unjust to own property?" funny you know the same argument was used in favor of Slavery. "a Slave is my Property, and it is my right to own Property." the obtainment of property through the means of exploitation I question whether you should keep. the property is yours because you stole it from its rightful owner, you take the Property of a person then he should be able to get it back. nothing against you randome but "how is it unjust" is a flawed argument.

the Poster before you makes a good point as well, as stated in the Declaration of Independence, in a sick system it is the duty of the People to overthrow that system. rise up and rebel my friends the time has come to overthrow a sick system. remember as well sick systems don't tend to go Peacefully, when they die they would prefer to drag everyone through hell just look at the sad state Russia is in.

"it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair" -Dickens Tale of Two cities

[barbtries]

88. what law are they enforcing.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[FirstLight]

8. more than ever now...

du3 has fewer occupy posts than ever...I have barely been here as of late, so sick & tired of it

[rhett o rick]

9. For some reason, the change from DU2 to DU3 lost a lot of progressives. nm

[Odin2005]

24. Paranoid people thought the change was a conspiracy to stifle those of us critical of Obama.

Those people will never return, most likely.

[rhett o rick]

26. Interesting observation. I doubt they did it because they are "paranoid". nm

[2pooped2pop]

39. my guess would be

that with all of the constant bickering here, especially on shit, people decided it wasn't worth it. Am thinking that way myself. I see people on here who could not be progressives slamming every word said about, well anything. It gets childish and old.

I am not accusing you of this behavior, just replying to your post.

[rhett o rick]

61. What amazes me is there are people here that disparage the left and progressives

yet will not identify their stands. They refuse to explain how they differ from the left. The only conclusion I can make is that they feel the status quo is not that bad and they are willing to accept minor improvements. As we watch the middle class being destroyed, the oligarchs taking over the world, the environment on a crash course, their response is that things could be worse. For them, rationalization is the key to happiness.

[2pooped2pop]

73. make no mistake

our dems haven't all been fighting the good fight for us either, so there is lots to slam. But yeah, some people jump on any glimmer of hope for change like it's the antichrist or something. Nope can't happen. Can't change anything. Occupy is dead.

I mean even if I were not a huge Occupy supporter and Occupier, I would think that I could recognize the positivity and "for the people" attitude of the OWS movement and at least not disparage them.

So I have come to the conclusion that they support those who don't really have a sparkling "For the people" stance and are afraid of Occupy. And well they should be for their days in politics is going to be ending soon.

[rhett o rick]

110. There is a large part of the American public that is afraid of change.

They are good people but they just are afraid of changing the status quo. When you point out all their fellow citizens that are suffering, they dont want to hear it. They read and watch the corporate news even when you tell them the truth lies elsewhere. They are afraid the truth will compel them to do something. They hold on to the status quo like a favorite baby blanket. They have been indoctrinated in the meme that change can bring worse times. Struggle and you will get The Newt.

But these people (they prickle at any of the names given them, and refuse to identify themselves) know that in this fight between ThePeople and our corporate overlords, their inaction helps the overlords and yet they will eventually suffer along with ThePeople. These people see their fellow citizens represented by OWS sinking in the quagmire but they wont help. Some will offer the advice to "stop struggling", other just turn their backs, and some openly disparage the protestors, afraid they will bring the wrath of the overlords.

The movement is now. You can join or not, but either way the overlords will not appreciate you.

[Odin2005]

109. Yup.

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. I doubt that too, given the piling on of any who dare to criticize Obama from those who just

can't stand any.

[leveymg]

57. The intent really doesn't matter, but DU3 is poorer for all those who didn't make the jump

And, I agree, it's less welcoming for the Progressives who are still here, and there seems to be proportionally larger contingent of Not Progressives, Neocons, Bots, Concern trolls, and plain old-fashioned low-information types. But, it's still a wonderful place, just less so.

[dorksied]

78. Many went to Leftunderground.

Pretty nice place over there.

[starroute]

108. I check that site out occasionally and never find anything worth signing up for

They've got a few hundred members and only a small fraction of those are active. And when I looked today, the discussion seemed to be heavy on conspiracy theories of the sort that were circulating at DU c. 2004. If there had been a sudden influx of refugees from DU2, I didn't see any sign of it.

I'm afraid that DU3 is as good as it gets -- but I'm not happy about that. I'd like to see some place for those of us who believe that Obama is about the best you can expect in a failing system, but that the real solutions have to be sought outside anything that presently exists.

[fascisthunter]

102. nah, not paranoid... just too far to the left for the Dem Party interests

it's obvious

[davidthegnome]

98. Well

I've been here for some years, lurking much more than posting. Lots of people aren't comfortable with change. I knew DU2, I knew how to navigate it, where to find what I was looking for, I was comfortable with the way it looked and worked. Is it still a fairly simple task to find what I'm looking for here? Yes. It's just not the same, kind of like having a house with wall paper on every wall, then one day, after years of living there, you come home to discover someone has gone and torn down the wall paper and painted the walls white.

[Earth_First]

10. That's because most never made the switch...

The Occuupy hate mongering was long a problem during DU2 end days, and flourishes at DU3...

Why struggle for justice when those whose party supposedly supports populist ideals tear apart questioning the status quo...

[2pooped2pop]

40. if you look

there is only a few anti Occupy posters. Same ones every single thread. Progressives? Not to me. I think a couple of them work for dems who would not be badked by the OWS and they know their days are as numbered as the republicans.

Thinking of only themselves and the job they will lose when their man goes down, rather than thinking of the World.

[stonecutter357]

53. K&R...

I think a couple of them work for dems who would not be badked by the OWS.

[fascisthunter]

101. What you said!

[PatrynXX]

94. think the freepers broke in

think they gave up and went with the flow. sure enforce the law. now why can't they do that with the actual wall street criminals?? instead of provoking a riot??

[fascisthunter]

100. yeah... not too bright either

[starroute]

12. Right now, the cops have 100 people or more kettled and say they'll arrest them all

This is from the livestream -- http://www.livestream.com/occupyoakland

The police say they ordered the crowd to disperse three times, which means they can arrest them now -- even though many of those they currently have kettled in front of the YMCA never heard the orders or weren't even there at the time.

OakFoSho is streaming from across the street. Not much can be seen in the dark except silhouettes passing in front of the lights of the Y, but it seems that the police are bringing a bus up to haul people away as they arrest them.

[unionworks]

16. thank you n/t

[unionworks]

15. this could be prevented

...by a few phone callls. WHAT A DISGRACE

[EFerrari]

17. I wonder if that is in fact what Roxanne said.

It's possible but hard to believe. She used to be smarter than that.

[unionworks]

18. I wonder if

It is what "impeachment of Bush/prosecution of Bush for war crimes is off the table PELOSI SAID! TAKE A RUBBER BULLET TO THE FOREHEAD, TAKE TWO OXI'S AND CALL ME IN THE MORNING, RUSH!

[EFerrari]

19. I'm going to try to verify with #OO.

Roxanne was never shy but this is over the top and

[alp227]

97. Not even Stacy Taylor (a progressive KGO talker) would defend what she allegedly said.

(Taylor is on Saturdays/Sundays 2-5PM on KGO 810.) I just heard him say something like it was dumb for Roxanne to let herself be quoted in the media like that. In fact the comment section at the SF Chron article is having a hate fest against RDO.

[alp227]

20. Update: this story has national coverage (CNN.com)...

19 Occupy activists arrested in Oakland after clashing with police

Occupy activists tossed pipes, bottles, burning flares and other objects Saturday at Oakland police, who responded by using tear gas and smoke grenades and arresting 19 demonstrators, police said.

Even after an afternoon clash near the Kaiser Convention Center, protesters continued to move around the city -- including at one point Saturday evening occupying a downtown YMCA. Police encountered them there and, around 6 p.m. PT (9 p.m. ET), began clearing activists from the building and making a number of additional arrests.

Wow, that is one serious allegation right there, some people throwing flammable objects at officers. Not condoning that at all.

[unionworks]

21. yeah not at all

...possible the actions of paid provacatueurs, is it?

[2pooped2pop]

41. well it wasn't Occupiers

I will wager. Though those in Oakland certainly have a right to feel physically threatened for their life by the Oakland Police, and may throw shit in defense by now. I mean those bullets can be lethal.

[starroute]

82. That YMCA story is completely ass-backwards

As I pointed out up-thread, police had kettled a large number of protesters outside the Y, and employees opened the doors to let some of them come in and escape out the back.

There was no "occupying" of the Y, no police "encountering" protesters there and clearing them out. And according to livestreamers, there were over 100 arrests for "failure to disperse," many of them targeting people who had never heard the original orders to disperse which had been given some time earlier and at a different location.

[unionworks]

22. Dear Occupy Oakland

Get with the UNIONS ASAP! THEY WANT TO PLAY THEIR LITTLE PINKERTON GAMES, SHUT THE FCK'N PORT DOWN TIGHT! GIVE 'EM A DOSE OF REALITY!

[midnight]

23. Any news on the condition of Occupy supporter shot by police?

[Odin2005]

25. Nice spin by the MSM

"Now is the time to spread hate, hatred for the rich."

They are trying to portray the Occupiers as violent thugs.

[Zorra]

28. Yep. The 1% owns the media, and ownership has its privileges.

And these privileges include using lies and shameless spin to promote the propaganda of the 1%.

[2pooped2pop]

42. Time to Occupy the media?

Anonymous would be helpful with a continuous shut down of their media sites.

[randome]

33. If that is what she said, then how are they trying to 'portray' anything

[2pooped2pop]

44. wow

you are so afraid of OWS that you now are on the side of the treasonous media? WOW!

[randome]

54. Say what?

I'm not the only one on this thread wondering if she said this, too.

[nobodyspecial]

58. Quit trying to be rational

and logical. Everyone but OWS is evil and bad and whatever protesters do is right and justified.

[randome]

59. Sorry!

My bad.

[Odin2005]

87. You are not getting it. the MSM intentionally picks out the few nuts...

...In order to discredit OWS. It was the same with the anti-war protests in 2003. I remember CNN interviewing a group of Anarchists. They could have interviewed ANYONE, but they picked a bunch that would make the protests look bad. This is the SOP of the MSM.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

29. Hate doesn't go away after you achieve your goals.

Who here believes that Occupy would achieve those goals in a matter of months?
Hate is not good for any movement.
Let me be clear here, I am very pro Occupy, it's probably our best last chance to bring about meaningful change not only for the US, but for the entire world as well.
But it sounds like a lot of folks are accustomed to fast food and want an instant fix for problems that took decades to reach this point.
To work, Occupy MUST REMAIN NONVOILENT.
The Occupy movement must win over the hearts and minds of a lot more people, including the police.
It can only do this by using brains instead of brawn.
OCCUPY EVERYWHERE !

[caseymoz]

31. +1000

But there always is a risk that the more violent encounters the Occupiers have with the police, the more the Occupiers will feel compelled to turn violent, just out of frustration.

And the violence encountered with the Oakland police was about the worst, so it's understandable protesters may be more inclined to become violent. Understandable but potentially disastrous for the movement if it keeps happening.

Really, the first part of such gatherings should be to calm people down and instruct them to stay peaceful.

It was not too wise to try to Occupy a building at this point. I think they overreached.

One also has to remember: Occupy right now is easy to infiltrate. It's important to try to identify and isolate provocateurs. Don't get tricked into acting violently.

[Tripod]

32. So sad :cry:

Bull shit!

[Lars77]

35. Apparently they broke into City Hall and burned a US Flag (picture)

This is top of a national news site in norway now, assuming it is elsewhere too

[Starry Messenger]

37. Reports from #oo on Twitter say that City Hall was open when entered.

It was not a B&E. I'm watching for more details. Also, the employees at the YMCA let in Occupiers to allow them to escape the police kettle.

[2pooped2pop]

43. those who wear their mask when not needed

are usually anarchist, not OWS. Now they don't look threatened in this pic, but maybe the police are outside and that's why they wear them.

Either way, still behind them. They certainly haven't done damage to this country like the republicans and half the rest have done.

[unionworks]

46. you beat me

...to the post! Quan needs to resign. The police are obviously completely out of her control, and according to. Huffington Post, will be under federal control in a few weeks due to corruption probe.

[2pooped2pop]

47. lets hope so

check out kpete's latest for lots of info.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002236290

I say we start in the spring holding all OWS meetings in the nude. Let's find those wires and get the provacatuers out of the picture.

[Nevernose]

75. Many of them are wearing masks all the time now

And a lot of them are CLEARLY not black block anarchist types. They just don't know when OPD will tear gas them, or where, or even what for.

[unionworks]

45. note the masks

...on the pair torching the flag. Provacatuers - anarchists that OO has had the same problem with in the past. You get a small band of troublemakers who attach themselves to a protest of thousands and they try to hijack the message. Thanks for playing.

[starroute]

83. What a strangely clear, detailed photo showing lots of smiling faces

There are many warnings going around on Twitter that the police are using photos and video to identify protesters and make further arrests. You'd think that people who'd just been vandalizing City Hall would be shy about being captured on film quite so identifiably.

Well, I guess it's kind of a test. If we see news of the people in the photo being arrested, that will tell us something. And if there's never any further mention of it -- that will tell us something else.

[PatrynXX]

95. course if it was a REAL flag, your supposed to burn it

but not entirely sure the procedures for that. so whoever ripped it, thats the issue.

[fasttense]

48. Really, occupiers tried to seize a convention center? It had been vacant for years. It was nothing

but an abandoned building.

It sounds more likely that they were having what we in the 60s protests called a sit-in.

And if you don't want to be disliked or hated for being one of the 1%, give your money away to the poor. I think Jesus advised this to the rich young man.

[minavasht]

84. I've heard this before

Abandoned or not, it is not theirs to take.
I have an "abandoned" vehicle in my garage, should somebody come and take it, since I don't use it?

[markpkessinger]

89. Agreed...

... I'm a big supporter of the OWS movement, but this was a very ill-advised action on the part of Occupy Oakland.

[Mosaic]

49. What I think is the 1% fears is

Direct Democracy. They rigged the govt. from the start for the rich. Only now are people finally waking up some 240 years later.

[raouldukelives]

79. All I hear on the news here in the Bay

Is that three officers were injured. One of them had a boo-boo on his leg.
Meanwhile the rest of the coverage shows protesters being shoved to the ground and pummeled by masked thugs with clubs. A woman being carried on a stretcher into an ambulance. Another protester being pulled to safety after being attacked. Apparently though the only injuries that matter are the ones suffered by the police.

[KamaAina]

85. The city should be giving the Occupiers medals

rather than teargassing them, for doing what city officials have been unable to do for years -- find a use for the Henry J. Kaiser Center.

Aside: Back in the day, the Kaiser was a favored venue for Dead shows.

[Deep13]

86. Translation: cops brutalize unarmed protestors. ...

A few fight back with whatever they can get their hands on. One guy mentions hatred and is quoted out of context.

[PatrynXX]

96. well if someone is pellting you with a rubber bullet and flash bang grenades what are you going to

do. .... oh sure let me get beat up.

actually probably should do that .. course if they did. there'd be actually protesters dead...

This is the same police that nailed Scott Olsen after supposedly responding to bottles thrown. Later that was proofed false as no bottles were found

[Deep13]

105. Honestly, the amount of restraint the protestors have shown...

...is nothing short of Herculean. It must be a tremendous temptation to bring a pistol and start shooting back.

[Nevernose]

90. In the full AP story

Theres not a single interview with any of the 3000 Occupiers. Just police quote after police quote. I didn't see everything, but what I saw on the live stream sure as hell wasn't what OPD described.

[alp227]

93. story has been revised/expanded...

Oakland police, Occupy protesters clash - scores arrested: article now quotes some occupiers offering commentary against police etc.

see also NY Times "Hundreds Held in Oakland Occupy Protest" - this article did quote an occupy activist who condemned the destruction to city hall:

On Sunday, Jean Quan, the mayor of Oakland toured City Hall to survey the damage to the building. Glass display cases had been smashed and graffitti was splashed on the walls, The Associated Press reported. At one point during the protest, The A.P. quoted Mayor Quan as saying that demonstrators who broke into the hall burned flags they found inside, broke an electrical box and damaged art displays, including an exhibit of recycled art that had been made by children.

“It’s not something I would have done,” said Omar Yassin, 42, a member of the group’s media committee. “But I do understand that people were enraged by the brutality that they had already seen,” he said. “There were children in that crowd; there were families in that crowd.”

also the NYT clarified the YMCA situation

On a livestream broadcast on the Web site oakfosho.com, dozens of protesters could be seen sitting cross-legged in the darkness in front of the Y.M.C.A. Their hands appeared to be bound behind them while officers stood watch. The protesters occasionally sang or cheered. In a statement on Sunday afternoon, the police said the marchers “invaded” the Y.M.C.A. Caitlin Maning, 55, a film professor who is a member of the Occupy Oakland media team, said protesters had been invited into the Y.M.C.A. to escape being kettled on Broadway, but ended up being prevented from exiting through a rear door by police.

and The Guardian (London) "Occupy protesters arrested after clashes with Oakland police"

[davidthegnome]

99. It's a closed Convention Center

Was it really necessary to defend it with tear gas or rubber bullets? The beatings, were they then, just, following orders? I don't think so.

There is a fine line between enforcement of the law and needless violence. I can understand the cops protecting the building and the land as part of their job - I can't understand them grabbing people, pinning them down, then beating them when it obviously is not necessary. I can't understand using violent force against people in their 70s and 80s who haven't got guns and certainly aren't picking fist fights with strong young men and women.

It's beyond things getting out of control or shit happening. It's brutal and stupid and the law needs to be enforced - if it is to be enforced at all - on both sides. Otherwise, you have exactly what randome was talking about - anarchy. Protestors who commit violence (other than in self defense, of course) should face charges - as should the police who do so without necessity. So far, I don't see any cops getting canned over this. I see a lot of media reports about protestors "battling", "clashing", "Fighting" with police. It's not much of a fight when one side is armed and ready and the other is mostly unarmed, almost entirely peaceful, with perhaps a few people who actually are anarchists bent on destruction of property, or are just looking for a good fight... I can think of better ways to find one.

All that said, I don't like where Ortiz is going with his rhetoric. There is never a good time to spread hate, as Gandhi could have very easily explained.

[fascisthunter]

103. No Bias by the Corporate Media... nah!

[LadyInAZ]

106. kick.

[starroute]

107. Now the people who were arrested inside the YMCA are being charged with a felony

Apparently after the staff opened the doors for the protesters, the cops followed and arrested everyone who couldn't produce a Y membership card. Now the occupiers who were arrested inside the Y are being charged with burglary. How messed up is that?

Also, at least as of a couple of hours ago, 100 of those arrested still hadn't been booked. The longer the police can keep them in limbo that way, the longer before they can get bail.

Lots of nastiness going around.

[Islandlife]

116. Is it illegal to occupy property that does not belong to you?

One word or less.