Share of Homes With Guns Shows 4-Decade Decline
Source: New York Times
The share of American households with guns has declined over the past four decades, a national survey shows, with some of the most surprising drops in the South and the Western mountain states, where guns are deeply embedded in the culture.
The gun ownership rate has fallen across a broad cross section of households since the early 1970s, according to data from the General Social Survey, a public opinion survey conducted every two years that asks a sample of American adults if they have guns at home, among other questions.
The rate has dropped in cities large and small, in suburbs and rural areas and in all regions of the country. It has fallen among households with children, and among those without. It has declined for households that say they are very happy, and for those that say they are not. It is down among churchgoers and those who never sit in pews.
The household gun ownership rate has fallen from an average of 50 percent in the 1970s to 49 percent in the 1980s, 43 percent in the 1990s and 35 percent in the 2000s, according to the survey data, analyzed by The New York Times.
Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html
A smaller pool of extremists own an abnormal amount of guns.
Gun ownership is becoming an aberration.
Observe the 'diversity' in that photo.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Without a bullet, then a gun becomes something to collect,like a baseball card.
Nobody ever died from a baseball card, unless one of the people had a bullet.
alp227
(32,006 posts)I've never heard an answer regarding a black market for guns/ammo.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Laurian
(2,593 posts)obnoxious minority pushing the guns, guns, guns agenda. The majority needs to SPEAK UP!
hack89
(39,171 posts)with a barely half of eligible voters turning out enormous leverage goes to those that can get their side to the polls. Judging from how skitterish pols are about gun laws, I suspect the perception is that the pro-gun side can mobilize voters while the gun control side can't. Until the pro-gun control side can demonstrate actual power in the voting booth, little will change.
BAT21
(42 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)But you said until the pro gun side can show power at the voting booth, little will change, I think you meant to say until the pro gun control side can show power at the voting booth, little will change.
That is, if I'm reading it right.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)and even more for local elections, you magnify the power of all advocacy groups, not just the NRA. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the Brady bunch could raise money and excite voters like the NRA - but they can't.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The endemic corruption of our political processes is exemplified by the distorted influence of a corporate lobbying organization like the NRA.
hack89
(39,171 posts)You would think that people would at least be galvanized to join such groups as the Brady's and do what they can.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)Whatever lack of passion inhibits the move to control firearms in this country will be taken care of by public outrage over the next mass shooting, or the next one, or the next one, or the next one, or the next one, or the next one, or the next one, or the next one---that, combined with an apparently unending series of boneheaded, self-marginalizing PR moves by pro-gun activists, and it's going to happen. It's just a function of time and how many more innocent people get shot.
hack89
(39,171 posts)they are rational people - they will see past the bloody shirt that you will continue to wave.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)The next time some well-armed lunatic converts a school into an abattoir---and let's not kid ourselves, it's just a matter of time---the public will want more done about the ridiculously lax gun control situation; your Mr. Spock routine is getting less and less effective, particularly since the pro-gun side---for all its bragging about a clinical adherence to rationality---is every bit as hyped-up and emotional as are gun control advocates, if not more so.
hack89
(39,171 posts)and yet look where we are. The gun control movement is a smoking wreck trying to revive the glory days of the first AWB. After your abysmal track record over the past 20 years, excuse me if I pay more attention to your lack of accomplishments instead of your promises of "this time things are different".
Paladin
(28,243 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)can't get anything through the Democratic Senate, several blue states dropped an AWB like a hot potato, and here you are holding up minor legislation as big victories.
1994 is the benchmark for gun control in America - you are nowhere close to that. You can't even get back to where you were in 1994 so don't try to convince me there is this unstoppable juggernaut that is going to change everything.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)You think wrong. The tide has turned.
hack89
(39,171 posts)nothing in Congress. Very little in a handful of states?
In the real world, words mean nothing without results. Where are the results? Should we expect them any day now?
TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)Americans are getting sick of this stuff. It'll take time to undo this mess.
hack89
(39,171 posts)let me know when things actually start changing.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)Rest assured.
hack89
(39,171 posts)things are not going your way.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)about my guns being taken away, or some other such nonsense.
hack89
(39,171 posts)so there is absolutely no reason for me to fret.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Nobody stopped smoking til someone paid for the ads that showed what happens when people smoke.
$$$$$$$$$$$$ financed anti-gun candidates can defeat the $$$$$$$$$$$ financed NRA candidates just from ONE dollar more.
working for a bullet free America one district congressman at a time.
To end the blackmail that the NRA holds
(and if bullets in the streets are banned and there is zero tolerance, then the individual states can also stop bullets from being shipped in.
After all, contraband can't be traffic'd in and all it takes is to get rid of bullets
and then anyone can keep their guns
caseymoz
(5,763 posts). . . probably don't object to somebody that does.
Until you get two or three more major school shootings, I'm afraid.
underpants
(182,626 posts)But let's remember that for the time being as they sell those guns they become untraceable. Once a gun goes through a private sale (especially after the second sale) it is untraceable.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)They will be in the future.
Time to 'well regulate' these one purpose 'tools.'
hack89
(39,171 posts)it is a violation of their 5th amendment rights. Interesting legal quirk I found.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)It asks a simple question, do you have one or more guns in your house, and has been asking the same question for 40 years.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)gun and knife dealer at the local gunshow and he says the number of first time buyers he is running through background checks is through the roof the past few years. I would like to see more surveys since we have the gallop and this one at odds. Then perhaps we would have a better picture of the trend one way or another.
hack89
(39,171 posts)so while the gun ownership rate declined, there are still many more gun owners.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Are a subset of that minority. You are not the majority of Americans. Gun culture is diminishing as a social force, not increasing.
hack89
(39,171 posts)as for a diminishing force, time will tell. Judging from what is happening in Congress and state legislatures right now, I somehow doubt it.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Individual rights always intersect with collective rights. The 2a is no different. Gun regulation does not take away your rights, it regulates and restricts what guns you have the right to keep and bear, how they may be kept, and how you may bear them.
CTyankee
(63,892 posts)perhaps they just don't want to...
hack89
(39,171 posts)but until you and other gun controllers read and finally understand the judicial concept of strict scrutiny, you will continue to be disappointed. It should make you at least understand the limits of what you will be able to accomplish. There are good reasons why I am not that concerned.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)and swarm every single thread assuring us (1) "RKBA" gun culture is here to stay and (2) you are "not worried" about legislative attempts to curb that same gun culture's bloody legacy and ongoing tragedies belies your constant insistence on point #2.
And you should be worried: "RKBA" as you and your friends in the Gungeon know and understand and want it is not going to last past this generation. Fifty years from now the NRA notion of the 2nd amendment will be considered a quaint oddity, like those ante-bellum secessionists who thought it was "constitutional" for states to simply leave the Union because they didn't want to see slavery curbed or outlawed. Fifty years from now, folks who make the arguments the NRA routinely does today will be objects of point-and-laugh derision, or simply astonishment: and the only Americans who will even know what an "assault rifle" is outside of the military context will be historians, who will study with wonder and some justified moral disdain the attitudes of what passes for "RKBA enthusiast" ideology and thought. Indeed, my sig line will be considered a tautology in the year 2063.
Yup.
hack89
(39,171 posts)apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)just like the abolitionists and suffragettes and Civil Rights workers and LGBT rights advocates and feminists and environmental advocates that have done so much to make this country a better place to both live, and to live up to its founding promise. There is still much to do in many of these areas, but we've also come far.
You see, the true test of whether someone is "worried" about such things or not is where they go to argue their cause. Since I'm confident that, as MLK said, the arc of history bends toward "justice," I'm not over at FR pretending to be a "concerned" or "moderate" conservative/Republican, trying to slip progressive commentary underneath JimRob's radar. I'm confident the future is "Blue," so to speak, so I'm where I belong: at Democratic Underground.
Others, not so much...
hack89
(39,171 posts)the gun control movement can't even get back to where they were in 1994. So don't try to convince me that you are part of a movement that is an stoppable juggernaut that will impose "common sense" gun control through out America.
I am where I belong - you will just have to accept that there are pro-gun Democrats. Lets not forget they are the reason no significant gun control measures will be passed by the Senate.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)And you should be worried: "RKBA" as you and your friends in the Gungeon know and understand and want it is not going to last past this generation. Fifty years from now the NRA notion of the 2nd amendment will be considered a quaint oddity, like those ante-bellum secessionists who thought it was "constitutional" for states to simply leave the Union because they didn't want to see slavery curbed or outlawed. Fifty years from now, folks who make the arguments the NRA routinely does today will be objects of point-and-laugh derision, or simply astonishment: and the only Americans who will even know what an "assault rifle" is outside of the military context will be historians, who will study with wonder and some justified moral disdain the attitudes of what passes for "RKBA enthusiast" ideology and thought. Indeed, my sig line will be considered a tautology in the year 2063.
Yup.
And we can just keep starting over until you are willing to focus on the issue at hand.
"I am where I belong"
Uh-huh.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)multiple sub-threads insisting he's not "concerned," all the while sputtering and spewing nothing but "concern" mixed with bravado assurances that "RKBA is here to stay!!!!!11".
Funny stuff.
*( )
hack89
(39,171 posts)apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)it is interesting how much of the gun control "logic" consists of smilies.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)I can't express myself well and was about to get banned or something foolish.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)One thing you are going to learn about our "pro gun progressives"* is that they don't do debate or discussion very well. Once you have exposed or debunked the latest talking point's list of NRA memes and propaganda, they usually fall back on either one line-attempts to "get the last word," rank personal attacks, or, as the Gungeon host *himself* pioneered, merely repeating the reply "Ibid" over and over and over again.
It really is all too easy. Less this : And more this:
You'll know when the surrender flag is being waved, because that's when one of three tactics I mentioned above gets rolled out and inserted into replies as "debate." It's really kind of a cute way to concede the debate, and our intrepid Gungeoneers never fail to deliver.
Again, welcome to DU!
*( )
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)when do plan to hold your Constitutional convention?
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)The number of non-gun owners grew as well, and it grew in greater proportion to the pool of gun owners.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)Helen Reddy
(998 posts)llmart
(15,533 posts)and +1,000,000
Great post!
Lucky Luciano
(11,248 posts)BAT21
(42 posts)Where are the others?
By the way, your sig line says it all.
Lucky Luciano
(11,248 posts)BAT21
(42 posts)Nice sig line, speaks volumes.
JoeBlowToo
(253 posts)Can you explain?
BAT21
(42 posts)I guess that's called a sig line.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts). . . once Westerns were eclipsed as the leading TV shows by Star Trek, among others. The gun industry didn't have that built-in cultural source of promotion.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Deserves repeating....
Observe the 'diversity' in that photo.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)ThatPoetGuy
(1,747 posts)Anyone with guns and children in the home is a child abuser.
If you beat your kids and have no guns, your kids are more likely to live to the age of eighteen than if you treat your kids well and own guns.
A gun safe can't withstand a nine-year-old with a Dremel, let alone a Sawzall.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)ThatPoetGuy
(1,747 posts)I keep forgetting that people are safer when the gun lovers are here on DU rather than out in the world.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)members every chance you get. Seriously: why hang out in a joint that makes you so angry and sad?
hansberrym
(1,571 posts)How about quick change batteries (those scary black battery packs are good only for breaking into gun safes).
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Blandocyte
(1,231 posts)I knew there had to be an explanation!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)More and more of those guys feel the need to tote in public and accumulate a few assault weapons.
Line at Atlanta gun show one week after Sandy Hook. Reporters inquired and the paranoid folks were hoping for a chance to acquire an assault weapon, some wanted one just like the one used at Sandy Hook.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)That percentage sticks in my mind for some reason. And wasn't the NRA recently doing a Y-Tube video, trying to recruit minorities? Probably because they know that a membership of white males that are becoming a minority themselves won't do it in the coming future. Also, women are put off by gun violence and much more in favor of sensible gun laws, not to mention the article's observation that minorities are much less likely to own guns. I also seem to remember an article somewhere that families that are more religious tend to have more guns in the home. Our nation is becoming more secularized. Another blow to gun possession. They always harp that they need guns in case of tyranny or in case they have a gang of burglars (re: blacks or Hispanics, even if they live in Rhode Island) break in and slit their throats. I know of this one old guy, who is the father of a man that's dating a neighbor, that owns over 400 weapons. He's on a disability pension, lives in a shed and spends every penny he has on buying guns and ammo. And he hates the government that's giving him his pension to buy guns.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)At least 95%. Good post.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)A lot of Dem politicians race to the cameras with guns in their hands. A guess they are not representative.
It also makes you wonder about the lament of "they are coming to take our guns!" But, if you don't have a gun...???
I'm guessing that those who have guns have a helluva lot of them.
Dr_Scholl
(212 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and there's a link to the GSS homepage in the NYT article. Datafiles, codebooks, etc.
former9thward
(31,941 posts)No one in their right mind would tell some stranger on the phone that they had guns in their house. Completely false data but if it helps you get through the day then go ahead and think its real.
eallen
(2,953 posts)People here are so used to fighting the NRA that they forget the NRA does not represent the average gun owner. It represents, instead, a politicized kind of gun owner.
Most gun owners are hunters or recreational shooters. They view their gun much as they do their canoe or their climbing ropes. It's important to them, but not something that they necessarily view as part of their political outlook.
Two groups can change that. The first group is the NRA and its ilk. It would like nothing more than to turn every gun owner into a supporter and wingnut.
The second group are those who demonize gun owners as a whole, or seem to, when their real target is the NRA.
Gun ownership is declining because hunting and recreational shooting are declining. But you're looking at decadal trends, and nothing still done by someone in 30% of American households is an aberration.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Gun ownership is becoming an aberration.
Observe the 'diversity' in that photo."
1. This is going to continue to trend on this pattern as the country turns more "Blue" and gets more civilized. Owning a firearm for the avowed purpose of plugging another human being in the name of "self defense" a la Georg Zimmerman is a barbaric, uncivilized attitude leading to ugly, and often murderous, behaviors: owning a firearm for the purposes of hunting, sports shooting, plinking, etc., etc. is a privilege that is justifiable only to the extent that the person exercising that privilege does no harm in the act of possession, i.e., leave his/her gun laying around for some kid to pick up or make it easy for a criminal to get his hands on.
As the country continues to mature and turn "Blue," firearms ownership will increasingly fall into the latter category as it does in Australia, Canada, and Western Europe. And the vicious howls of rage and anger from our "RKBA enthusiasts" will continue to intensify as the bloody gun lobby and their NRA shills and sycophants watch America's sick gun culture go into the trashbin of history.
2. Even that level of gun ownership for reasonable reasons - hunting, sports shooting, etc. - is going to drop. Legislation is coming that is going to make firearms ownership increasingly expensive and attendance-to-intensive. Further, none of our grand or great-grandchildren are going to be able to walk into Gump's Sporting Goods and buy either an assault rifle, or a semi-automatic handgun, or a .50 caliber sniper rifle, as is the case today. They simply aren't: such implements are going to be as illegal as segregated restaurants of the Jim Crow era, and illicit ownership of them as stigmatized as racist attitudes are today. Those who persist on defying the law are going to be (a) locked up when caught and (b) otherwise shunned from decent society when it is known that they insist on endangering their family, neighbors, and the entire community by owning illegal tools of mayhem. This is as it should be.
3. Yep - the "RKBA enthusiast" movement is largely the domain of Angry White Males, who feel "their" ( ) country is being "taken" from them by people of color, women, LGBT Americans, and, of course, them there godless liberuls. All that has really happened, of course, is that those communities have stepped forward and claimed their civil and human rights, and right to be treated with equality, fairness, and dignity. This enrages our "RKBA enthusiasts" to no end: see sig line.
Good article, great commentary! Kick, Rec.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Blandocyte
(1,231 posts)b/c they don't want anything resembling a registration. This might influence survey results.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)I read the article, I noted the drop in the number of males that had hunted dropped from 40% of all males in the 1970s to 25% today. From other data I suspect that is accurate, the sales of hunting licenses nationwide have dropped since the 1960s as you see the second and third generation of urban dwellers becoming the norm.
One factor has been the move from Rural America to Urban America that started in the 1800s. The 1920 Census was the first Census that showed more people living in Urban Areas then Rural Area, more moved to urban areas in the 1930s, steady decline since that time. Most important is most males tend to want to return to their roots, even if just for a "vacation" like going back for hunting season, something all rural males participate in, even today. Thus you had a lot of Father taking their sons to go hunting with them, but generally this tradition dies out with the death of the father who moved from Rural America to Urban America, the last big push from Rural America to Urban America was the 1930s, thus the kids of the 1950s was the second generation, the 1970s and 1980s the third generation and today we are seeing the advent of the fourth generation of urban dwellers since they had any direct connection with rural America.
This generational separation from Rural America is also seen in the decline in Camping, Camping peaked in the 1950s, been in decline ever since. Now Camping is holding its own, but like hunting it is white dominated.
The problem I have, is that while the decline in Hunting (and Camping) has been observed elsewhere AND can be checked elsewhere (Sale of Hunting Licensee and people seeking Camp Sites for example) Gun ownership is harder to trace. A lot of people inherit guns, thus the guns (All Gun Sales, except private party to private party, has been registered since 1938) are "registered" but the person it is "Registered" to is no longer alive. Given no states requires you to register non-pistol firearms on a yearly basis (You have to have a license to carry in most states and that license has to be re-newed, but if you just keep the gun in your home, they is no need to register it with anyone,). Please note the State of New York has required a license to own a pistol or other "concealable firearm" since 1911, but that does NOT apply to Rifle or Shotguns.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/100-years-ago-the-shot-that-spurred-new-yorks-gun-control-law/
Even New York City permits people to own rifles or shotguns, the only restrictions is they must be carried, unloaded, in an enclosed case (See Paragraph 101.131 Firearms, sub section h {please note for some reason the New York City Administrative Code uses letter without parenthesis for sections of the New York City Administrative Code, with subsections then divided by Arabic Numerals, then by small letters, but this time in parenthesis. Thus 101.131 section h, is right after subsection g,4 which is right after subsection g,3,(d)}:
http://www.nysrpa.org/files/nyc-admincode.pdf
Now, such shotguns and rifles would be legal to own, but many people will NOT admit to owning them. This problem of false reporting has to be addressed. In most cases by some check that makes sure the date gathered is accurate. People are known NOT to lie about things that can be checked (Do they own a car, do they have a driver's license) OR has no legal ramification (do you like blue or red Cars?). On the other hand, accuracy goes down (Due to the effect of lying) when the question being asked can lead to legal problems OR other discomfort to the person being asked (For example, Surveys as to sexual preference are more accurate today then they were at the time of the Kinsey report due to greater acceptance of homosexuality, thus the effect on the Kinsey report of the pool of people he was pooling his subjects from can be seen).
The problem is given the overall conception of an attack on firearms (Notice I use to term Conception, they have NOT been an attack, but if you ask most people the would say there has been, thus my use of the word conception), more and more people are less likely to admit to owning firearms then in the past.
As late as the 1960s, 90% of all firearms sold were rifles and shotguns, it is only since the 1960s that pistols sales have expanded to be 40% of the firearm market. Someone is buying these pistols and while the percentage of Rifles and Shotguns had fallen, the number of rifles and shotguns have increased. While some of this increase can be explained in terms of people who are buying several guns, that is NOT enough to explain the overall increase in sales.
As to the South and West, most recent immigrants come from areas without access to pistols, and given most growth in the US had been on the Coasts that would be a partial explanation of the drop in overall households with firearms. On the other hand, the West and the South is where the most fear of gun confiscation exists, and thus would increase the number of people NOT willing to admit they own firearms.
While this survey has some support (drop in hunting licenses) it also seems to lack support (increase sales of pistols, which tend to be owned by people who distrust others and thus will lie about owning a firearm).
My problem is other then actually doing searches of people's home, they is no way to confirm the accuracy of this survey. Given I oppose breaking and entry into people's home (and it is ILLEGAL) they is no way to confirm this survey. Nice to remember, but also remember the limitations on the survey.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)If that ain't diversity, I don't know what is..
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Have a few hundred or even a few thousand black people show up at one of those gun shows.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)IN HOODIES, of course
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)More places have police forces now. And not just the one officer covering 24/7. Fewer miles between adjacent dwellings, better roads and cars etc.