At prayer breakfast, Obama says Christian faith guides his policies

[alp227]

President Obama used an appearance at the National Prayer Breakfast on Thursday to reaffirm his faith at a time when Republican critics have accused him of a “war on religion,” telling an audience of religious leaders that his policies are grounded in his Christian beliefs.

Obama, speaking to 3,000 people at the Washington Hilton, used passages from the Bible to make the case that his push for a more equitable economy is rooted in a long-honored value system. And he suggested that his proposal to increase taxes on wealthier Americans is consistent with the teachings of Jesus.

“For me, as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required,’ ” Obama said. “It mirrors the Islamic belief that those who’ve been blessed have an obligation to use those blessings to help others, or the Jewish doctrine of moderation and consideration for others.”

As he has done in recent speeches, Obama emphasized that theme of economic fairness, aiming to draw a contrast with Republican presidential frontrunner Mitt Romney. The former Massachusetts governor caused a stir Wednesday when he said in a CNN interview that he was “not concerned about the very poor” because they have a safety net in place.

full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-prayer-breakfast-obama-says-christian-faith-guides-his-policies/2012/02/02/gIQAzNyakQ_story.html

Wasn't Obama brought up as an atheist? I wish he could've been elected without having to be religious.

[Lionessa]

1. Ew, I just threw up a little. Time to pander I guess.

[Stuckinthebush]

5. Ha!

This is when DU needs the "LIKE" button.

[SaintPete]

43. Its not pandering if he says it because he believes it

no need to throw up.

[deacon_sephiroth]

47. depending on your point of view

that would be a MUCH BETTER reason to throw up.

[FarLeftFist]

68. Obviously he is using a tactic/strategy here. Condescendingly and slyly calling out conservatives.

Pointing out their hypocrisy.

[arely staircase]

78. i don't think it is entirely that cynical

i think the president is a christian who, like myself, believes in a responsibility to the poor. but it does, indeed point out their hypocrisy.

[classof56]

102. Agree and thank you.

As a lifelong evangelical fundamental Baptist who stepped away from the fray a few years ago (yeah, GWB did me in), I admire and appreciate those who have kept the faith and rely upon it as a guide for their daily lives. It's the so-called christians who don't seem to know what Jesus said much less did beyond the dying on the cross thing that keep me on the sidelines. GWB was a flat-out hypocrite who used his "man of faith" mantra to pander to his base. Strikes me that President Obama keeps his faith to himself for the most part but acts on it when it comes to doing what is best for our country, plus in the conduct of his personal life.

Just my thoughts.

Blessings to all.

[Lionessa]

52. Putting forth the idea that he is in anyway using a faith to make gov't decisions

is contrary to the constitution, imo, contrary to Kennedy-style Democratic principles that I had hoped he had, and ultimately, since he hasn't been to a church regularly for a while (hence his active Xianity is in question), he is pandering because the election cycle has begun.

[Chiyo-chichi]

58. I would argue

that being an "active Christian" has little to nothing to do with whether one attends church regularly.

[JDPriestly]

154. In fact, getting involved in the hypocrisy, in-fighting and meanness that

takes place in certain churches, attending church may prevent some from being "active Christians."

[whathehell]

94. "his religion"?....Give it a rest....MOST of the world's religions preach "love they neighbor"

If you have a problem with that, you should leave the democratic party.

[uppityperson]

148. "for unto whom much is given, much shall be required" is such a pandering anti-constitutional thing?

Since you don't seem to be well informed, you don't need to go "to a church regularly" to have "Christian faith" guide you. I find it amazing how many people equate what Obama is saying with Funamentalist religious extremists. There ARE shades of grey.

[Lionessa]

152. He SHOULD be suggesting it because it's the logical thing to do to get the economy to recover, NOT

because he read it or was told it in a religious mythology.

Additionally there are plenty of real people recorded in history as having the same advice that he could use to suggest the same thing, rather than some mythological being whose reality is easily questioned and even if that specific Jesus existed, the reality of his supposed life and death. Gosh, he could even have chosen to quote say an.... ECONOMIST wherein I'm sure I've read many that say the same thing (helping the working-poor and poor is the right thing to do), rather than religious deity.

But just his going to a prayer breakfast sponsored by The Family, is enough to make on nauseous, then pandering to them,...I repeat, ew, I just threw up a little.

[uppityperson]

153. You really should get that stomach of yours looked at. eom

[JDPriestly]

155. Yes. Jesus' teachings were not unique.

Jesus was a Jew. And he remained a Jew all of his life.

And, yes, Jesus' teachings are logical -- common sense for a healthy life and a healthy society. Jesus did not found a church. The rigamarole of ritual and mumbo-jumbo was not his idea.

[secondwind]

201. He went to services in Hawaii over Christmas 2011. n/t

[azureblue]

48. No,

Time for you to do two things:

1- RTFA, in which he says:
“And when I talk about shared responsibility, it’s because I genuinely believe at a time when folks are struggling, at a time when we have enormous deficits, it’s hard for me to ask seniors on a fixed income or young people with student loans or middle class families who can barely pay the bills to shoulder the burden alone. And I think to myself, if I am willing to give something up as someone who has been extraordinarily blessed, give up some of the tax breaks that I enjoy — I actually think that’s going to make economic sense.”

He added: “But for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that for unto whom much is given, much shall be required.”

“Treating others as you want to be treated, requiring much from those who have been given so much, living by the principle that we are our brother’s keeper, caring for the poor and those in need, these values are old and they can be found in many denominations and many faiths and among many believers and among many non-believers. They’re values that have always made this country great when we live up to them, when we just don’t just give lip service to them, and we just don’t talk about them one day a year.”

2- and for you, as a homework assignment:
Get a Bible and read the Book of Matthew, which contains almost all of Jesus' teachings, Including the ones he talks about. Then quit posting about things you are ignorant of, unless your ambition is to show your ignorance to all the world...

[Lionessa]

53. Been there, done those, and still it's an entirely vomit-worthy comment.

[SaintPete]

96. you really are a vomiter, eh?

such a delicate constitution ...

[whathehell]

97. Actually, I'd bet more people would find your persistent religion hating spleen venting

more "vomit worthy" than the president's remarks.

[CBHagman]

111. Thank you, whatthehell.

Isn't it funny how "live and let live" gets thrown out the window when the subject is an individual faith?

[whathehell]

118. You're very welcome..

and, yes, it is very strange how the "tolerance" meter goes way DOWN

when it comes to religion.

[HuckleB]

166. You have no idea why that might be?

Really?

[HuckleB]

165. So what?

A fallacy is worth what?

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

[FiveGoodMen]

59. “...it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that for unto whom much is given...

...much shall be required.”

From the guy who didn't let the Bush tax-cuts-for-the-rich expire?

[HuckleB]

80. +1

[arely staircase]

83. yeah, that's how he kept a right wing congress from letting unemployment benefits expire

he gave to get. it is called leadership. he is a leader who gets things done, not a talk show host scoring points with no real world ramifications. i think the bush tax cuts are appaling but i would have done exactly what he if that is what was necessary to keep the unemployed from even further financial devestation.

[nanabugg]

185. +++1,000 nt

[BlueCaliDem]

194. + 2000

But some anti-Obama Leftists would rather have people go without money for the holidays. I doubt they'd be that recalcitrant if they were unemployed and had to tell their kids, "Hey! Suck it up. At least the Bush tax cuts won't be extended. No go chew on the walls if you're hungry".

[Igel]

84. Devil's in the details.

I think most people read it as the agent (suppressed by the passive verbs) being the same in each case.

Here we have, "for unto whom much is given (by ...?), much shall be required (by the government)."

So are we given what we have by the government?

Most conservative Xians also interpret that as meaning something along the line of "unto whom much is given (by God), much shall be required (by God)."

You get various kinds of inferences from this. Government as god, Obama as god, stipulating that there must be different agents involved. It sounds good to those who already think that government should require much more from those with than those without, sort of a government virtue.

Oddly, a lot of liberal Xians also tend to believe that somehow "charity through taxation" is a kind of collective virtue, which rather implies a collective salvation ("Hey, that guy over there hates blacks and Jews, but he pays his taxes--albeit at gunpoint--so he's also counted as being kind to the poor and loving his brother!" Yeah, it's a nice reduction to the absurd. Lots of things viewed through the prism of faith and belief are.

Still, when saying what the effect is that the president's words will have on political opponents, it's not entirely unreasonable to at least consider what the other side actually is likely to think and not just assume they'll think what we want them to think.

[CBHagman]

112. Presidents don't set tax rates. The Congress does.

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

Now, as to why the tax cuts didn't expire, allow me to refresh your memory as to the events of December 2010:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/01/politics/main7105820.shtml

Senate Republicans intend to block action on virtually all Democratic-backed legislation unrelated to tax cuts and government spending in the current postelection session of Congress, according to a letter recently delivered to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid pledging to carry out that strategy, which was signed by all 42 Republican Senators.

"We write to inform you that we will not agree to invoke cloture on the motion to proceed to any legislative item until the Senate has acted to fund the government and we have prevented the tax increase that is currently awaiting all American taxpayers," reads the letter.

"With little time left in this Congressional session, legislative scheduling should be focused on these critical priorities. While there are other items that might ultimately be worthy of the Senate's attention, we cannot agree to prioritize any matters above the critical issues of funding the government and preventing a job-killing tax hike," the letter continues.

If carried out, it would doom Democratic-backed attempts to end the Pentagon's practice of discharging openly gay members of the military service and give legal status to young illegal immigrants who join the military or attend college.

Needless to say, the DREAM Act didn't pass during the lame-duck Congress, but the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell" did, and the new START treaty was ratified. "When it's all going to be said and done," said Lindsay Graham (R-SC), "Harry Reid has eaten our lunch."


Check out Ezra Klein's column on what passed and didn't pass in that particular incarnation of the Senate.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/12/why_has_the_lame-duck_session.html

[emulatorloo]

143. Dumb bullshit half truth.

Doesn't get any truer with repetition.

[SammyWinstonJack]

161. But that was then and now he has an election to win......

[enlightenment]

63. Feeling a bit condescending today?

You might want to reconsider telling people what to do, unless you care to append your 'ruler of the known universe' certificate at the end of each statement. Particularly when what you posted was a rather long-winded STFU.

[whathehell]

101. LOTS of condescending atheists on this board. n/t

[LAGC]

123. Your concern is duly noted.

[whathehell]

132. Actually, it is....When you're secure enough to leave your small world

of atheists (Sorry, bro, atheists are still a minority)

you'll see EXACTLY that "concern noted" by DUers who agree with me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

134. being a minority doesn't make you wrong, implying so makes you sound rather

unintelligent.

[Warren DeMontague]

146. nah bro

bro is a genius, bro.

Like that guy who used to win all the debates by pasting entire screens full of smileys.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

147. lol

[SammyWinstonJack]

163. ...

[baldrad]

72. For being mildly rebuking,

...as you have justifiably been here, my statement(s) here at this site have been called offensive and hurtful, and censored. Objections to my positions were met with high school level vitriol (published).

Being required to march lockstep with eveybody on a website is laughable; I am returning to Huffpost and Media Matters, where strong and emphatic positions are heard and encouraged, and adults prevail.

I suggest you do the same. Congratulations for declining to sing in the choir.......

[MNBrewer]

81. Like in Matthew 6:5, where Jesus explicitly said not to make conspicuous displays of prayer?

I doubt he would approve of this nationally televised Prayer Breakfast.

[HuckleB]

79. Exactly.

If faith guides his policies, then evidence and logic are lost in policy equations, and that's not a good thing. I know this is just pandering, but it is ridiculous.

[whathehell]

103. Don't be silly...

Many "believers" are extremely bright and logical...Thom Hartmann, an absolutely brilliant progressive,

is a self-described Christian and it's too bad your prejudice would blind you to that.

Obama's "faith" in this context, means his "values", and yes, the Teachings of Jesus

are ALL about kindness, being "your brother's keeper" and caring for the poor....That's why

I'm amazed at this mean right-wingers who erroneously imagine they are practicing Chrisitianity.

[HuckleB]

108. That has nothing to do with what I posted.

[uppityperson]

149. "for unto whom much is given, much shall be required" is illogical, doesn't use evidence, is bad?

Huh.

[HuckleB]

157. So that's the extent of this supposed faith?

[uppityperson]

158. Who said that? Only your assumption there. Is "for unto whom much is given, much shall be required"

illogical, doesn't use "evidence", is bad?

[HuckleB]

159. If you're going to stick to that single line, then you're apparently making that assumption.

So which is it?

[uppityperson]

167. Simply waiting for you to answer my question rather than dodge it.

Waiting here. Will you answer?

[HuckleB]

169. I've given an answer.

It appears that you want to discuss logic, but only in a vacuum, thus ensuring that the discussion is pointless and without logic.

So you can keep waiting, or you can choose intellectual honesty.

Which is it?

[uppityperson]

170. Please show me where you answered that question as I don't see it. Thank you.

[HuckleB]

171. And now you're off on another tangent.

Anything to avoid the reality of the situation.

[uppityperson]

173. You said you answered. I'd like to see the answer as I can't find it. You now won't show me your

answer? I am asking politely. Since you said you answered, would you please point it out to me since I don't see it? thank you.

"I answered." "would you show me" is off on another tangent? wtf?

If you simply want to do back and forth rather than having an actual discussion, I'll go away as don't want to waste my time. Bye

[HuckleB]

188. You're asking politely?

Well, then engage in an intellectually honest discussion.

Answer my first question. It's a legitimate response to your question.

If you can't do that, then this "discussion" is over. I don't play these games.

Hasta.

[whathehell]

88. Maybe he throws up at atheists.

[AlbertCat]

92. Maybe he throws up at atheists.

I doubt it.

He's smart. Smart enough to do the religion thing because society demands it of politicians in the US.

I'm not saying he's a hypocrite. But he surely thinks science and logic are important and successful, so he probably has no problem with atheists. Most intelligent people don't.

[whathehell]

100. Like me, he probably doesn't have problems with atheists generally, just the rude, intolerant

types who equate belief with stupidity and say things like they "throw up" when they hear him saying he's a Christian.

[cilla4progress]

113. What about holding 2 competing ideas

in mind at the same time?

[HuckleB]

162. Hmm.

What about taking a true look at the origins of religions?

What about understanding how they were created, and why the were created?

What about choosing to look at the world with a truly open mind, instead of one clouded by unfounded stories?

[cilla4progress]

197. What's wrong with belief, or faith?

I was raised by humanists. Their faith/belief was in humanity, to be ethical, to help their fellow humans, to care and be humane. Doesn't suspend belief, or science. But still faith -- untested or proven by evidence, so to speak...

[HuckleB]

208. In other words, you can't answer my questions.

Your only defense is to try to divert the discussion away from what matters.

Think about it.

[cilla4progress]

210. So your view prevails?

How is that different? Are you open-minded, if you are intolerant of Christianity..."unfounded stories?"

[HuckleB]

211. How is noting that the stories are unfounded being intolerant?

That makes no sense. That's simply being a realist.

[cilla4progress]

212. You give no credence

to the fact that the stories ARE founded - in their beliefs.

[HuckleB]

213. Say what?

Do you not understand the science of history, nevermind the scientific process itself?

Unless you're going to go with every creation story ever imagined, then you're failing to be even mildly honest.

[cilla4progress]

214. Every creation story is true

to those who believe in them.

[HuckleB]

215. Oh brother.

You've just made the case for why religion has no place in politics EVER!

[cilla4progress]

218. Oooh - no place in politics -

there we agree!

Yup, sorry!

[HuckleB]

219. Again, oh brother.

Why are the defenders of religion so often intellectually dishonest?

[cilla4progress]

220. Who you talking about? I'm a pagan.

Oops - that's a religion!

[cstanleytech]

119. What? Its a freaking prayer breakfast

after all of course hes gonna say something that wont tick them off.

[slackmaster]

139. This story has generated a whole lot of nausea and vomiting on both sides of the political aisle

And in the churches.

[The Wielding Truth]

145. Who are we really to question his faith when it's obvious that he tries to live his beliefs.

He opened to Christianity while serving the people of Chicago's communities when he saw how faith helped those in need to cope in their lives.He was married in the Christian faith and his wife and children seem to be examples of the humility and kindness. That is the best of any religion and the cornerstone of the teachings of Jesus.

The way I see it, is that in his way he has justified the impossible use of force in the long standing and established defense of our country. He has negotiated the rough and tenuous road of using the power of those entrenched in that power to move us away from the insanely greedy policies which had become a way of life to those who owned Washington. Sadly our country has been raped so severely by those people and their power is so great that he has had to rely them and their tentacles to save it. Like using the strength of your evil attacker to overwhelm that attacker. He needs our support to get out alive. He is inside the belly and we have to constantly weaken the beast from outside or it will consume him and us.

I know that it's off subject, but remember how much it took for us to install a President who would represent us? Well we have to keep up the fight because he has had his hands tied behind his back because we walked away and let the reactionary right fight for the greedy. Our man inside had to survive almost alone. He is still inside but he needs our strength. He is smart enough and strong enough but he cannot do it without the support we gave him to get him in office and he must have to achieve his and our goals.

We haven't another champion this election.

Okay. I just had to get this out. Rip me up or support our president - your choice.

[mike_c]

2. this just makes me sad....

Obama is a pretty smart dude. The cynic in me hopes that he's just playing the marks like a fiddle, but the pessimist thinks that my estimation of his rationality has just gone down another notch or two. Don't even ask what my inner economist says....

[AlbertCat]

93. Obama is a pretty smart dude.

Indeed. Like I said above....
This being a prayer breakfast..... a tradition.... and politics..... he did as he was expected and said what he should have. That is all.

[AtheistCrusader]

117. Of course he did. This pisses off the birthers that claim he's a secret moose-lim.

Let them fucking stew in their rage, rub this article in their faces.

Always a good time.

[msongs]

3. how man people did jesus kill in drone attacks? the bible is mum on the topic nt

[pocoloco]

7. ...or find a closet that would hold 3000 people?

[demosincebirth]

18. They didn't have drones in Jesus's time.

[Cherchez la Femme]

36. Or what?

Jesus would have loved drones?

[Uncle Joe]

56. No but they had stones, same thing just shorter range.

[iscooterliberally]

61. From stones to drones. My how we have evolved.

[Hawkowl]

70. Sure they did

They were called Legionaires. Drones don't kill people. The people sitting in an airconditioned bunker in Missouri flying them kill people.

In other words, drones are weapons wielded by people to kill other people. That was certainly going on in Jesus' time. ( If he existed at all.)

[harun]

205. The ruling class would have used them against him if they did.

[BlueCaliDem]

4. Christian faith guides mine, too. That's why I'm a Liberal Democrat

so I understand completely what the President says.

Evilgelicals have corrupted the Christian faith as taught by Jesus, and, unfortunately, it's what people are hearing and seeing. Add to that, the first Christian religion, Catholic, didn't make things any better. But those who follow the teachings of Christ understand completely what President Obama means and I'm happy he's guided by his faith.

It wouldn't matter to me if he were Christian or Atheist. But since I'm a Christian, I understand what he means.

Add to that, the Obama is a Muslim bee ess will hopefully lose steam now he's come out and publicly tells the American people he IS a Christian.

[Wait Wut]

9. I think the majority of "non-Christians"...

...agree. Even though I'm not a Christian, I get the message the Jesus was trying to teach. Nothing wrong with it. Feed the poor, keep 'em healthy, be nice to each other, etc. I can see how some people would see that as evil or nauseating.

[MACARD]

11. I am a christian as well, and as well a very liberal Democrat

the Name of Jesus and Christianity has been dragged through the Mud by more than its fair share of bad apples, evangelicals, medieval Catholics. but every faith has been dragged through the mud by its followers at least once, Osama Bin Laden, Al quieda, the Taliban, and Muslim Brotherhood give Islam a bad impression. depending on your interpretation the Zionist and Israel has dragged the Jewish name through the mud. Idk about Hindus and Buddhist. don't Forget Stalin and Mao who were Both Atheist.

So really Don't judge us all based on the few Bad apples in our group.

I too can completely understand why he is saying that both inside and outside the context of a reelection campaign.

though it wont quiet the Obama is a Muslim Bee ess. they would call Obama a Liar long before they ever admit that they are wrong.

[whathehell]

90. You are correct, but the many Christian haters here will NOT want to hear it.

There are some very unpleasant "angry atheists" on this board and they seem to particulary hate Christianity,

generally refusing to acknowledge that there are any but the Right Wing fundamentalist variety, even though

those are a minority of all Christians.

[AlbertCat]

95. "angry atheists" refusing to acknowledge that there are any but the Right Wing fundamentalist

Pu-leeze.

I doubt they are much of a problem.

Most atheists, "angry" or not, are, however tired of the "poor put upon Christian" act.

[FlaGatorJD]

128. The most anger and judgment in this thread appears to be in your posts

What the hell does being a loving person have anything to do with religion?

If someone says anything contrary to your opinion, you attack them as "haters" and tell them they should leave the democratic party. Whothehell are you to speak for the democratic party?

I know many atheists, some of whom could be considered misreable fucks who don't aruguably love anyone, who are fantastic on-the-street democratic soldiers.

Some of us thought this "I'm a good person", "because I'm a christrian" bull ended when the village idiot left office.

While you have every right to your opinion, disrespecting and attacking the opinions of others is not editorializing. Isn't there another party or board where this type of behavior would be more acceptable?

[whathehell]

130. In your view -- If you check the thread, you'll see I've gotten "thanks" from others here.

If you honestly find my posts to contain "the most anger and judgement in the thread",

I'd urge you to look upthread at the poster who said she wanted to "throw up" because President Obama says he's a Christian....I've

never claimed that sort of "reaction" to atheists or agnostics or seen anyone else on DU do so, on this thread or off.

"Whothehell are you to speak for the democratic party"?

I never claimed to "speak for the democratic party"..I spoke for myself.

"While you have every right to your opinion, disrespecting and attacking the opinions of others is not editorializing".

Again, check the post upthread where the poster says she "wants to throw up a little" after hearing the President's remarks

on his faith and then talk to me about "disrespect" and "attacking the opinions of others".

[alp227]

110. good to hear from you, as an atheist i can understand that religion is not inherently partisan.

[The Wielding Truth]

180. I'm with you MACARD.

[zipplewrath]

15. Then why DOMA?

I don't understand his position on gay marriage at all, ESPECIALLY considering that he is "guided by his faith".
Nor do I understand his decision to bomb Lybia, hang around Iraq, ramp things up in Afghanistan, and hold people without trial.

[FedUp_Queer]

77. My sediments (since we are talking about stones) exactly.

But as others have said here...

then why indefinite detentions.

all those drone attacks.

cuts to services for the poor (http://www.naco.org/newsroom/countynews/Current%20Issue/2-14-11/Pages/Obamaadministrationproposes75percentcuttoCDBGinFY12.aspx)

killing citizens without trial;

no justice for the victims of Iraq (by letting Bush and the other war criminal walk free).

Oh well...I know I've beaten that dead horse until I've beaten its legs off.

[BlueCaliDem]

195. DOMA is a Clinton and Republican law

and at the moment, President Obama has a helluva lot more important problems to see to. Btw, did he promise to do away with DOMA? I don't recall.

I can understand why you can't understand why he bombed Libya. But the Libyans, do. In fact, they thanked him profusely. Also, you do remember what's now known as the Arab Spring, right? Also, Gaddafi ordered the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 killing 243 innocent Americans, 16 crew members, and 11 people on the ground when the plane fell and destroyed homes. He was sending gunship helicopters to kills his own people, and succeeded in murdering his own people. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8331117/Libya-protests-Colonel-Muammar-Gaddafi-turns-helicopter-gunships-on-own-people.html

We're winding things down in Afghanistan and we're still trying to help Iraq from becoming a part of Iran. Iran is on the war path, but that's not important to you because you think we live too far away to be affected, right?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

37. Mine, too! Cuz Jesus was a liberal. Point. Blank. Period!

[BlueCaliDem]

196. Thanks LS71.

I'm glad you understand what I was trying to convey. Some people are so blinded by their hate for President Obama that they can't see the forest for the trees anymore.

[arely staircase]

87. thank you nt

[cilla4progress]

114. Right on BlueCaliDem!

I'm with you. Evolution and faith can co-exist. It does not suspend rationality.

Thank you!

[cilla4progress]

116. Right on!

I'm with you. Evolution and faith can co-exist. It does not suspend rationality.

Thank you!

[uppityperson]

150. Thank you, me also. Not the Fundamentalist Extremist bs, but as you say.

[a simple pattern]

6. It sounds to me like he's suggesting

that they read their own book. I don't know if any other Presidents have walked into that den of vipers and confronted them with their own hypocrisy. I think I like it.

[Journeyman]

24. Abraham Lincoln's "Second Inaugural". . .

In quite certain terms, he told the nation it had sinned and that the war was God's judgment upon them all, North as well as South.

Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres32.html

[pnorman]

34. I'm going to save that quote.

Thanks!

[a simple pattern]

50. Thanks for that.

I was thinking specifically of the prayer breakfast, but this is thought-provoking in a different way. I hope Obama never says anything like it, though.

[patrice]

64. Isn't that the quote on the wall in the Lincoln Memorial? nt

[Journeyman]

109. Yes. His two most important speeches are etched in full on the walls of the memorial. . .

His "Dedicatory Remarks" at Gettysburg are on the left as you face him, and his "Second Inaugural Address" is on the right.

And as we're considering religious aspects of Presidential comments, it's quite enlightening, if you are familiar with the Christ story, to re-read Mr Lincoln's remarks at Gettysburg with an ear to parallels between Christ's life and the life of the nation as described by Mr Lincoln. A nation "brought forth" (not founded, but intellectually realized from a virgin land), a struggle through a crucible of blood and death, and resurrection through "a new birth of freedom." The imagery was highly calculated by Mr Lincoln to draw his audience into subconscious agreement with a fundamental ideal Mr Lincoln sought to instill, and the speech serves the purpose of not only dedicating a cemetery and establishing a memorial for the war, it remade the emphasis of the nation and turned us from the flawed Constitution (which codified slavery within the land) and rededicated us to the ideals of the Declaration, which sought freedom and equality for all.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

[JDPriestly]

33. Yes. Obama was sincere in talking about his own faith.

But, he also was answering bigoted critics who disrespect his faith.

I liked the speech very much. I believe that Obama has deep faith. I don't think he is all that interested in religious dogma. I feel like I am on the same pages of the Bible that he is.

I appreciated this speech and rec'd this post for placing it on DU.

[tularetom]

8. Aw, he's just sucking up to the yokels

He can't come out and admit he's a mooslim.

[AmericaIsGreat]

10. Whom is he trying to convince of that?

Us? Or himself?

[MACARD]

12. thank you for proving my point! ever predictable

[tblue]

14. It's election season.

What else would he say. He may very well mean this 100%. Or he may just be pandering. Either way, doesn't matter. I don't care. It doesn't change a dang thing.

[AmericaIsGreat]

67. Well, I don't see any evidence that he has used Christianity to guide his policies

At least not yet. That's why I think it's pandering. I don't really even have a problem with it. I just want him to do the right thing. If he's gotta bullshit some Christians in the process to keep them calm, so be it.

[Kahuna]

13. The same thing he said the last time...

Get over it...

[bluestateguy]

16. Until the 1970's and 1980's Christian activists in politics were left of center

Progressives of the 1900's, civil rights activists, abolitionists, women's suffragists, etc.

And they were very open and overt about infusing Christian values into politics.

[demosincebirth]

20. The naysayers skip those issues when they read U.S. history, just like the fundies skipping the most

important chapter and verses, in the New Testament that really make decent humans out of some.

[truthisfreedom]

17. He's consistent.

And remember, Jesus was a liberal long-haired hippy freak with lots of weird ideas who thought that you should look after the poor and had no particular affection for the very wealthy.

[kenfrequed]

19. The Fellowship

Is the organization that puts on this event. Every thinking person should boycott the damned thing.

[Iliyah]

21. Whats with this myth

that Dems are not religious? Some Dems are and some are not, thats one of the bright side in this party.

I get so tired of people suggesting that only goppers are "Christians" or "Mormons. To be totally truthful, I'll say that Dems are more aligned with the teachings of Jesus/God than the crazed goppers. Gop religion is more aligned with the devil, pure and simple.

[efhmc]

26. Areed.

[whathehell]

104. You are correct.

There are many here who look down on religion, especially "Christianity" and believe

it's largely a right-wing religion...It's not of course...Jesus was a liberal.

[emulatorloo]

144. Thank you.

[Puzzledtraveller]

175. they are not aligned with the devil

don't let differences in political ideaoly obscure your faith.

[DesertRat]

22. You asked "Wasn't Obama brought up as an atheist?"

He said that as a young adult he did a lot of spiritual exploration and decided to become baptized. I have no doubt that faith guides his policies. Why is this a problem?

[kestrel91316]

23. Sad. The #1 thing that guides his policies SHOULD be his love of the Constitution.

He and all politicians need to keep their religion out of politics.

[Lionessa]

55. Particularly since he's supposed to be a Constitutional scholar.

[sulphurdunn]

73. He doesn't even need

to love it. He is sworn by oath freely taken to offer fealty to the Constitution, not his faith. Was it his faith that led him to sign the Nation Defense Authorization Act, to give a pass to the Bush war criminals, to appoint the major moneychangers behind the financial collapse as his financial advisers, to make a snake like Rham Emanuel his chief of staff or extend the Bush tax cuts and generally kiss the ass of the Republican Party for the past three years? The government should remain neutral in matters of religion, not just to promote rational governance but to avoid the kind of pandering hypocrisy by public officials to private religion that the prayer breakfast so disgustingly exemplifies.

[kestrel91316]

151. [phone] 000 000 000

[flamingdem]

25. Yea, people, Obama should come right out as an Atheist!

That would be schmart, real schmart.

[zonkers]

32. thank you. Its called poliltics.

[nxylas]

57. Yes, unlike the tone-deaf Romney, Obama actually knows what you have to say in order to get elected

Whatever the Constitution says about there being no religious test for public office, we all know that the reality is somewhat different, however much we may wish it were not so.

[Critters2]

120. It would also be dishonest, since he isn't one. nt

[AngryAmish]

27. Jeebus told me to kill Osama!!!1!

[TexasProgresive]

28. You might read this from snopes before the election

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

It appears that his mother wanted him exposed to different religious.

[Obamacare]

29. I love that President Obama is standing up for Christians

not these fake racist rethug Christians. The racist evangelicals have done a number on Christianity. I hate that all Christians are judged by bad apples. Obama, says he is a Christian and I take his word and believe that he is. I don't know why anyone would question his faith on DU, he isn't pandering. He wasn't raised atheist or Muslim either, that's a rethug lie!!

[Gore1FL]

76. I do admit there has been a lot of Brand poisoning.

I was raised Christian. I know a lot of good people who are Christians.

There are a lot of Christian beliefs that I find more than a little odd and some, frankly, quite offensive. That's me. Others find it to be a welcoming and comforting religion.

Ultiamtely, I'd much prefer it if Obama based his policies on something other than religion.

[Puzzledtraveller]

176. Who is doing the judging?

Can I offer you a mirror perhaps?

[usrname]

30. Rather than reaffirming their faith in Christianity

I would just wish all politicians of all parties would actually act by christian teachings. You know, help the poor, feed the hungry...

I don't think there's a single line in the old or new testament that advocates killing muslims.

[LynneSin]

31. Well to be honest, depends on which Christian values

If he's actually following what Jesus did which was help the poor & the needy, the I say good for him! We need more people like Jesus in this world. Remember Gandhi was a big fan of Jesus, just not of the faith.

[yellowcanine]

40. Well in my book those are the real Christian values. The Christian Right has perverted

Christianity into something else.
As for Gandhi I recently heard a sermon which basically said that there are many more followers of Christ than there are adherents to the various Christian creeds.

[LynneSin]

46. Amen!

[yellowcanine]

35. I have no problem with this as long as it is the Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule.

These are secular humanist values as well as Christian so what is the problem?

[KamaAina]

38. The "National Prayer Breakfast" is sponsored by none other than our old friends on C Street

And to think, one of the main reasons I supported O over Hillary in the primaries was Hillary's ties to C Street.

[yellowcanine]

44. But Obama delivered a much different message than the usual Prayer Breakfast speaker.

“For me, as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required,’ ” Obama said. “It mirrors the Islamic belief that those who’ve been blessed have an obligation to use those blessings to help others, or the Jewish doctrine of moderation and consideration for others.”

Guilt by association does not yet apply does it? And does the man not get credit for going into the belly of the beast and speaking truth to power?

[KamaAina]

69. That proves it! He is a secret Muslin!!

“It mirrors the Islamic belief that those who’ve been blessed have an obligation to use those blessings to help others,

How would he know that if he weren't a secret Muslin??

[Journeyman]

204. That's an accusation cut from whole cloth. . .

muslin, to be precise. . .

[Phlem]

39. and...check!

what's next?

-p

[MisterP]

41. WWJD?

Who would Jesus drone?

[yellowcanine]

42. "....Jesus’s teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required,’ ” Obama said

Watch out, Obama, getting awfully close to "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" - the wing nuts will explode over this one, never mind that Jesus said it.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. Ah, that's from the Acts o' the Apostles....Chapter 4

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet:
and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

[yellowcanine]

127. Yes, another thing the Christian Right keeps very quiet about. Of course they don's so much as read

the Bible as selectively quote mine it to fit their agenda.

[bread_and_roses]

45. Then he ought to re-study the "suffer the children" line -

Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

"suffer" does not mean blow them to bits with drones, it means "allow." And "of...the kingdom of God" does not mean dead, it means that they are innocent.

Oh - and he might want to take a look at exactly what those sponsors of the "prayer breakfast" advocate, and just how in-line with the teachings of Jesus they are.

As an atheist, I have no quarrel with the teachings of the man Jesus. Nor do I care if our President "worships" him or is a Christian or any other sort of "believer."

However, his religion should be his own business, not ours or the countries, and that we have to have these abject kow-towings before the all-mightly Christian fundies is certainly violates the spirit if not the letter of the separation of church and state - not to mention that as soon as these utterances became pro-forma for our politicians they became as meaningless as any other stump speech.

[deacon_sephiroth]

49. in the words of Bender...

WE'RE BONED!

[Jester Messiah]

51. Would it be too much to ask that logic and reason be his guide, rather than bronze-age bullshit?

Never mind, that's obviously just crazy talk.

[EX500rider]

60. Actually Christ lived during the Iron Age. n/t

[Jester Messiah]

75. Oh, well that's completely different then. [nt]

[Arugula Latte]

86. ...

[whathehell]

121. Yes, in that logic and reason can't do it all...There are these things called "values"

like "compassion" and "kindness" and "fairness"...It's what

separates us from the pukes.

[deacon_sephiroth]

135. ok

logic, reason, and compassion.

Still no need to involve a magical sky daddy, or ancient, doctored, innacurate, "holy" texts.

[Jester Messiah]

164. There are logical rationales for those values

If I am compassionate to others, it encourages others to be compassionate in turn, and it will probably come back to somebody being compassionate to me. Likewise with kindness and fairness. If I want others to be kind and fair with me, then it follows that I must be kind and fair with them.

The same rationale holds for laws. I don't want it to be okay for people to steal from me, and I don't want it to be okay for people to hurt or kill me. Thus I accept these constraints on my own behavior. I don't get to steal, hurt, or murder others. Rational self-interest. There's no need to get any skydaddies or other religious figures involved.

[One_Life_To_Give]

54. Glad I wasn't there

It's too cold to be rolling my pant legs up that high.

[madrchsod]

62. like it or not...that is what he believes

if one decides to or not to vote for him because he`s a christian that`s one`s choice is`t it?

remember not all christians are assholes...

[Tx4obama]

65. 2006: Barack Obama: Call To Renewal - Faith and Politics Speech

Speech VIDEOS here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017777

[patrice]

66. I'm a little confused by a group that faults him on being Christian and then also faults

him on how he has dealt with his responsibilities as Commander & Chief of armed forces at War (whether WE like that or not!).

If Christianity is fucked-up, what's your problem with war? Independent from Christianity, or any religion for that matter, you may come to support war or not, so at least some of those criticizing his Christianity should do so regardless of how he has dealt with those who are perceived as our enemies.

The bigotry against Christianity on this board is interesting. Science/Rationalism does not validate such bigotry; it simply has nothing to say about religion and that trait, that "nothing to say, one way or the other, about that for which there is no empirical phenomenology, or at least nothing to say outside of 'there is no empirical base for x'" is INHERENT to the nature of rationalism itself, so anything that violates that trait, one way or the other, anything that says yea or nay on x-which-has-no-empirical-traits, is NOT rational, i.e. it negates its own definition of its empirical identity and runs the danger of being the same as that which it claims to refute, in short, a God.

None of which even begins to address the intrinsic limitations of Science/Rationalism in a multi-dimensional multi-verse of anomalies that are beyond our own phenomenologies. What is beyond may or may no corelate with that which we refer to as "God", but the fact remains that it IS beyond.

Authentic respect for rationalism should recognize its limitations and honestly validate the extent to which one's claims ARE derived from one's own right to one's own non-rational emotions about Christianity/religion/or-whatever.

[Bluenorthwest]

74. I fault him for his opposition to the rights of others using dogma as an excuse.

It is hypocritical in the extreme, and I do not care for answers to secular questions coming shaped with religious lingo as a method for not answering the question. I think much of the use of 'faith' in politics is a misuse of faith and of politics. Wrapping it up in a lexicon of liturgy does not mean it is outside all criticism. When a person uses their faith for the sake of their politics, that person has profaned the 'holiness' of the faith, and altered it into a mere political modality which no one need respect in any way.

[awoke_in_2003]

82. While I get what he is saying...

I just wish we could live in a country where we didn't lend so much creedance to fairy tales. I am tired of hearing of our politicians and candidates "faith".

[whathehell]

122. I wish we could live in a country where people were secure enough

in their own belief (or non-belief) that they didn't

have to sneer at those of others as "fairy tales".

Screw your condescension and arrogance...I'm tired of

hearing atheists here insulting people who don't agree with them.

[LAGC]

124. Yeah, and we're tired of religion being shoved in our faces at every opportunity.

Make-believe spiritual voodoo has no place in dictating public policy, period.

The very fact that there's a "National Prayer Breakfast" is a travesty.

I hope to see the practice ended in my life-time, as I believe it will be.

[whathehell]

131. Who here is "shoving religion in your faces at every opportunity"?..I'm certainly not.

I'm merely "tired" of the derision and blatant disrespect being shoved at everyone here,

who isn't an atheist.

I guess it's just a really tough break, LAGC, but you don't happen to

live in an "atheistic" country.....Your options, in this case, are

to act like a grownup and accept that the world rarely comes "custom ordered"

to our liking, or to find someplace which more closely meets your requirements.

That being said, only a bigot of the highest order would call "Love thy Neighbor" and calls to help

the poor "make believe spiritural voodoo"....What's funny, is that such

pronouncements are EXACTLY in keeping with progressive values, but your blind

hatred, keeps you from seeing it.

You don't like the National Prayer breakfast?...I don't particularly like it either, but

I don't view it as a "travesty"...If you do, work to get rid of it

You won't get any objections from agnostics like me, I just think there's more

immediate and important things to fight for.

[rhett o rick]

140. "Screw your condescension and arrogance". Is this the new standard for discussion? nm

[awoke_in_2003]

203. if your faith were so strong and secure

mere words should not affect it. If you god is so strong, why does he need you to defend him? Your defensiveness proves both are weak.

[Arugula Latte]

85. Gag.

Too bad he has to say this crap to the zealots.

[AlbertCat]

89. Obama says Christian faith guides his policies

How patronizing.
I'd have hoped logic, common sense and knowledge would be guiding him.

[markpkessinger]

91. Only FUNDAMENTALIST Christian faith excludes ...

... the application of logic, common sense and knowledge to solving real-world problems. And there are many, many Christians, including the President, who are not fundamentalists.

[whathehell]

105. THANK You!!....

It's about time somebody pointed that out here.

[rhett o rick]

138. Faith does not include logic and common sense. Faith is "belief that does not

rest on logical proof or material evidence."* Using faith to solve real-world problems is scary.
Whose "faith" should be followed? Two people of the same "faith" may believe that God wants them to solve problems in two completely different manners. I assume that the Pres and Boner have "faith" in the same God, yet they have different ideas how that faith directs there values.

*thefreedictionary.com

[markpkessinger]

174. Being guided by one's faith is not the same as "using faith to solve real world problems"

Martin Luther King, Jr,. is a prime example of this. He was a Christian pastor, whose faith CLEARLY guided him in his quest for social and economic justice. It is evidenced in almost every one of his speeches, which are chock full of allusions to biblical passages and concepts. When President Obama says his faith guides him, he is merely saying that the values of compassion and respect for human dignity, which he believes proceed from his Christian faith, guide him in his determinations of what our responsibilities are to one another. There's really nothing "scary" about that.

[rhett o rick]

179. With respect, they sound the same to me.

I am not versed in Christianity so please bear with me. I understand having faith that the Bible is the word of God. It cant be proven and yet some believe it and so they have faith. The same goes for believing Jesus is the savior. But how can one be guided by faith? George W. Bush said he was guided by Christian faith and Pres Obama says he is guided by Christian faith but I think you would agree they are not guided the same.

And I guess I dont understand how faith can guide one to invade a country and kill hundreds of thousands or to assassinate people with drones.

[Akoto]

99. What do people expect the president to say at a prayer breakfast?

"Religion sucks, and you religious people count for nothing in my decision making! Who wants pancakes?"

It's called politics. He's telling his hosts what they want to hear.

[Arugula Latte]

107. He could have a prior engagement.

It's about priorities.

[Kahuna]

125. Really? So the president should abandon tradition to appease atheists? That's

never going to happen. Not in America it won't.

[markpkessinger]

168. Speaking as an Episcopalian, perhaps he should abandon it . . .

. . . given it's rather dubious provenance.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

177. you don't have to be an atheist to think that there is already excessive religion in politics

[Kahuna]

200. True that. But, it is what it is. All presidents will always

make time for this function.

[Coyote_Bandit]

106. Ya know

If I'm going to condemn those who use their faith to advance a fundamentalist agenda then consistency requires that I apply the same standards to judge others who use their faith to advance a different agenda.

I didn't vote for Obama because he was Christian (or of any other faith) nor did I vote for him because I wanted him to use his faith for anything other than personal decisions.

I'd like to think he's simply pandering for votes. But either way you can color me unimpressed.

[SHRED]

126. Who Would Jesus Bomb?

Who Would Jesus Arrest for Marijuana?

[Warren Stupidity]

129. since the Emperor Constantine, everyone and anyone who is a threat to the state.

[whathehell]

133. Yeah, except that "threat to the state" stuff is hardly limited to Jesus, or Constantine.

You might want to google words like "Stalin" and "KGB" if you're in doubt.

[Warren Stupidity]

136. argument wasn't made.

Where did I say that such behavior was limited to roman emperors or christian states?

[deacon_sephiroth]

137. I agree

When listing historical (or ficticious) figures that have inspired violence and hate, you should include Stalin and his ilk, not JUST Jesus.

[HuckleB]

172. Why does one have to include every figure?

Heck, there is a very real question that must be answered: Without the use of Christianity to support Monarchy, would Stalin have been able to attain the power he did in response to that history?

[Doctor_J]

141. In his case I actually believe it

Unlike his predecessor, whose policies seem to come from Satan himself.

[bowens43]

142. That's sad.

I hate to see an otherwise intelligent man debase himself this way.

[Myrina]

156. While I appreciate him shoving the Christian thing down the GOP's throats ...

.... I really wish religion wasn't a campaign issue/policy topic.

Keep it in your church of choice, where it belongs.

Thanks.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

178. so true.

[choie]

181. oh, so that's why he orders

drones to bomb what could be, and has been, innocent people. Didn't know
jesus would condone that. Now THAT'S hypocrisy!

[BigDemVoter]

182. Ewwww. . . . just spit up a moutful from lunch. . . .

Why in HELL do American politicians feel the need to parade their faith around? Republicans are far worse than Dems, but they ALL do it.

[Throd]

183. So he is either lying or stupid?

Maybe he really believes in the tenets of Christianity.

I'm an atheist, but there are a lot of positive teachings in the Bible. A lot of wacky stuff too.

It seems really condescending to assume that only idiots are religious and that he is either one of those idiots, or is telling the idiots what they want to hear for his political gain.

[JI7]

184. Why do people have to be so stupid and sensitive

he was making political points with this. the right wing always using religion to take away women's right and other shit but on this issue ofhelping the poor they don't care. and Obama was using what they do to call them out on that issue.

and of course some people have issues with Romney's religion. so it helps in that area also.

those who already agree that wealthy need to pay more, this wasn't directed at you.

[HuckleB]

189. Yes, we should all continue to bow down to this nonsense.

Uh.


Or

NOT!

[JI7]

190. nobody is asking you to bow down to anything

you just seem sensitive and not understanding of politics.

you know how republicans would emphasize the Hussein in Obama's name ? yes, that is his name but you know what they were trying to do with that.

the same here. people have questions about Romney's religion. republcans use religion to support their shit policies. Obama turns it on them.

his message is aimed at the hypocrites and to those worried about Romney's religion.

[HuckleB]

192. Oh, I understand politics just fine.

I also understand that politics are used in this country to push complete fictions to no end.

And this is yet another example.

Try again.

[JI7]

193. so what the fuck are you outraged for ? don't you want Obama to win the election and expose

the hypocrites?

[HuckleB]

209. Who said I was outraged?

Try again.

[Odin2005]

186. I just threw up a little! Jefferson is rolling in his grave.

[cbrer]

187. What are you bitching about?

It's true. Christ recommended drone attacks, and black ops.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

191. The

[font color=gold]Golden Rule.[/font]

[Monk06]

198. If Thomas Jefferson were to run for president today he wouldn't get past the primaries because

as a Deist he did not believe in the Divinity of Christ. Now you have
to pretend to be Christian or your ass is gas.

Obama should say he's a Jeffersonian Christian. That will fuck the RW
up four ways to Sunday.

[SaintPete]

206. Why should he say something that he doesn't believe?

Clearly, Obama is a Christian, and is guided by his understanding of the Bible.

[Monk06]

207. It was a rhetorical suggestion. The rightwing goes out of its way to avoid the fact

that the FFs were mostly deists and also the majority, Masons. Not surprising since they were the students of the French Enlightment. Doesn't fit in with the RW Evangelical/Charismatic worldview so
the founders have to be seen as devout protestants in the Baptist mode and the American people anointed by God to rule the world, and most importantly that part of the world occupied by Indians and other brown people the don't like.

Personally I don't think a person's religious views or lack of them should
be part of any political debate.

[Zax2me]

216. You think Obama is lying about his beliefs?

Then why would you support him?

[Monk06]

217. I don't think he's lying I just don't approve of public displays of piety. Leave that to the Fundies

[killbotfactory]

199. The following image is in response to this thread, not Obama's remarks...