Better Colleges Failing to Lure Talented Poor

[alp227]

Last edited Sun Mar 17, 2013, 06:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: NY Times

Most low-income students who have top test scores and grades do not even apply to the nation’s best colleges, according to a new analysis of every high school student who took the SAT in a recent year.

The pattern contributes to widening economic inequality and low levels of mobility in this country, economists say, because college graduates earn so much more on average than nongraduates do. Low-income students who excel in high school often do not graduate from the less selective colleges they attend.

Only 34 percent of high-achieving high school seniors in the bottom fourth of income distribution attended any one of the country’s 238 most selective colleges, according to the analysis, conducted by Caroline M. Hoxby of Stanford and Christopher Avery of Harvard, two longtime education researchers. Among top students in the highest income quartile, that figure was 78 percent.

The findings underscore that elite public and private colleges, despite a stated desire to recruit an economically diverse group of students, have largely failed to do so.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/education/scholarly-poor-often-overlook-better-colleges.html

[McCamy Taylor]

1. If they wanted economically diverse students, they would recruit them.

Shame on our universities for pandering to the elite.

[Buzz Clik]

6. What makes you think that top universities do not recruit minority students?

I know for a fact that many universities have very aggressive minority recruiting programs.

These kids do not want to go someplace far from home where they will be all alone with few opportunities to make friends with people that understand who they are. It goes way beyond recruiting -- it requires creating a community for these kids.

Wanna take a guess at an elite university that knows how to get it done? That has one of the best records for recruiting and retaining poor minority kids?

Go ahead -- take a wild guess. (Hints: think of a top ten university with a reputation of being snobbish, elitist, and only for the rich smart kids.)

[Dan]

8. Washington University in St. Louis?

[musiclawyer]

21. My kid goes to wash u

They do a decent job But even the biggest scholarships fall short especially for single parent household kids

[SunSeeker]

2. Even with a full scholarship, the cost of attending is too much.

I speak from personal experience. A scholarship does not cover food, clothing and transportation, and often does not cover rent and supplies, all of which can be astronomical in the fancier college towns. Poor families just can't cover that stuff. There is also the isolation. Poor kids find they do not have much in common with the other students, and cannot find a support group. The culture shock and tough freshman classes make for a brutal first year. That, coupled with the financial pressures, can make it too much, and they drop out. That is why many do not even apply, knowing that is what awaits them. They end up going to a state school near home, where they can save money by living at home while going to college, and still see their friends and family during the year. At an Ivy League school they would have to get on a plane for that--which they could not afford.

[Phlem]

4. Beat me to it.

I got a job 2 years into a community college and have been working ever since. The opposite end of this spectrum is if you don't have a college degree, you get paid less than your counterparts for doing the same thing. Oh and no one takes you seriously when you have something to say.

Maybe I ended up on the positive side? Hard to tell anymore.

-p

[SunSeeker]

7. Don't give up. Get as many credits out of the way at the CC as you can.

It's cheapest at the CC and the freshman/sophomore classes are smaller--and easier. Stay the hell away from private for-profit diploma mills. Find a state university near you that has a good relationship with your CC and transfers credits from there fully toward a four year degree. Find out from your CC counselor and/or the university what classes you can take at the CC that would transfer to the university. And then keep plugging at it. Go part time and work part time, but don't stop. If you do stop, re-enroll as soon as you can. It took me 7 years, but I did it. And I graduated only $7,000 in debt. And my degree does not say it took me 7 years or that I took over half my classes at a CC. It just says "Bachelor of Science."

[exboyfil]

9. Great suggestions

Our CCs have an agreement with the state universities that detail what transfers and how it applies. My daughter between that and online classes available from the engineering university will have 3+ semesters done before she graduates high school. Best of all the school district picks up alot of the tuition through PSEO.

[Phlem]

15. Thanks Sunseeker

And there is no way I will give up. It'll probably take longer for me cause I'm stuck with making too much money for financial aid and not enough money to just pay for it. I think I'm pretty close to my associates degree, that's half way there!

you rock.

-p

[liberalmike27]

13. If the people you are talking to

Don't take you seriously when you've got something to say, you need to find new people.

I've met a lot of people with the paper, that are dumber than cat-sh*t, and I've met a lot of people without, or with "some" college, who are brilliant.

[Phlem]

16. Wow, taking the words right out of my mouth.

Last edited Sun Mar 17, 2013, 10:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Thank you so much Bud. I love hearing that, I've gotten used to keeping my mouth shut. Some of things you pick up when just listening... priceless.

-p

[csziggy]

14. Yes, even fifty years ago, that was true

My oldest sister had full scholarships and acceptances from several colleges and universities when she graduated in 1965. She had her choice of Rice, Duke, and others but decided to go to a small college closer to home so the costs of travel would not be a burden to our parents. Instead of flights home, it was a ninety minute drive so we got to visit her often and she was able to come home regularly.

In addition, being from a small town, the transition to a small college with the same number of students as her high school and with an somewhat isolated campus was easier than it would have been to go to a large university with a population larger than our home town.

She later went to Duke for her Master's but that was years later and she was more mature.

[Phlem]

3. Curious

Does Harvard plan on carrying these students on their dime?

With respect to returns on investment, college degrees don't always convert to increased income. As proof of late.

Especially for "Lure Poorer Strivers".

That would make sense of this article.

-p

[Arugula Latte]

5. Even basic state public universities are out of reach for most people now.

$20,000 - $40,000 year for one year of state college? Hoooookaaaaay...

So, this doesn't surprise me.

[exboyfil]

10. If you poor a good chunk of the cost

is covered. In addition to direct grant aid many scholarships have a need based component. That is at least the case in Iowa.

[wilt the stilt]

12. UGA does this

all freshman have to stay on campus- $20,000 per year.and that is with no tuition

[sybylla]

17. Nominee for idiotic headline.

You can't tell by the headline if, by poorer strivers, they mean those who are not so good at striving, or those who are good at striving but poor.

Come on, NYT, you can do better.

As to the article, I have to say no shit, Sherlock. I'm glad they took the time to prove what most of us poorer strivers already know.

Hell, in my middle class household, my sons were blocked six ways to Sunday from getting the degree they wanted - the degree their father got from the same well-reputed university, largely because they had to work part-time while in college to pay the bills, even with grants and loans. That meant that though they excelled academically in high school and met all the requirements to get into the university's program, their grades in college didn't meet the program's minimum expectations of 3.5 and they were booted from the program. Of course to get us to pay tuition for no reason for a couple of extra years, the school lied their asses off to us about whether my sons were in the program or not.

[alp227]

18. Title has been revised for print n/t

[sybylla]

19. Saw that when I shared it on Facebook.

Glad someone got their heads out of their backsides.

[duffyduff]

20. WTF is a "better" college? The elitism stinks.

State colleges and universities are just as good and better for the money than some hoity-toity private college, especially the Ivies, which you are paying through the nose just for the connections.

The worst goddamned thing that ever happened was those idiotic "rankings" by US News and World Report. They should be thrown into the trash can.

[Brigid]

22. You beat me to it.

I find it hard to believe that some snob who went to an Ivy League college really got a better education than I did at a state university.