Ohio School Shooter TJ Lane Laughs, Gives Finger at His Sentencing

[Archae]

Source: ABC News

Ohio school shooter TJ Lane arrived at his sentencing hearing today wearing a blue button down shirt. After he sat down, he unbuttoned the shirt to reveal a white t-shirt with the word "killer" emblazoned across the front in black marker.

When Lane was given the opportunity to make a statement to the court, he made a short statement and then stuck his middle finger up in the courtroom filled with the loved ones of the three students he gunned down.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-school-shooter-tj-lane-victims-families-finger/story?id=18763554

---

A vile little spoiled brat.
He deserves to rot in a tiny cell.

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. I'll bet that smile won't last long.....

Any takers?

[RedstDem]

110. that smirk has been wiped off his face

he's whimpering in his cell right about now.

hope he leads a long miserable life...

[winter is coming]

119. Nope. It's all downhill from here for that one. n/t

[crim son]

2. Odd.

Sounds like he actually has feelings, or understands feelings, which would make him a spoiled piece of shit and not a sociopath. The look on his face in this pic says it all.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

16. I'm not so sure that he has feelings in the classical sense.

Sociopaths have feelings, but probably not feelings of empathy.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. I'd bet he'll try to kill himself real soon.

[Kolesar]

5. Put him in a room with a hook on the ceiling and let him keep his belt...eom

[Myrina]

10. An arrogant little fuck like that will think he's smarter than everyone else in prison ...

.... I suspect he'll have his ass handed to him (in a variety of ways) in the very near future & wouldn't be a bit surprised if he met the same fate as Dahmer.

[maxsolomon]

77. 10 posts to Prison Rape!

That took longer than I expected.

[Myrina]

93. I didn't mention Prison Rape.

"Having your ass handed to you" generally means being beaten, thoroughly.
And Dahmer was shanked.

Stop putting words in my mouth/on my post, please.

[maxsolomon]

107. Sorry, you did imply it.

"in a variety of ways".

[Myrina]

108. Sorry, that was YOUR insinuation.

Where I'm from, 'having your ass handed to you' means being beat up, humiliated, put in your place. It DOES NOT EVER MEAN being raped.

You're seeing what you want to see.

[maxsolomon]

148. So coy.

Why, WHATEVER could you mean? I only said "he'll have his ass handed to him in a variety of ways", IN PRISON. That NEVER means rape where I'm from!

If you didn't mean to insinuate prison rape, you need to get out of wherever you're from more often. I'm not the only one who read that into your comment.

[lbrtbell]

153. Only in your mind

Having one's ass handed to them in a variety of ways means that they'll be defeated/humiliated in a variety of ways. Intimidation, beatings, etc.

For example, Romney got his ass handed to him in the last election. I think even he would confirm that he was never anally raped at any point.

[duhneece]

188. That was also how I read it nt

[eggplant]

95. +1. It always comes around to that. n/t

[Myrina]

103. Please see my response before jumping to conclusions.

Sorry you're obsessed with prison rape, but nothing in my post mentioned it.

[leftyohiolib]

122. well we cetainly wouldnt want any harm to come to that poor misunderstood darling of an angel

[KT2000]

114. he likely will be raped

In all seriousness - it is a reality, especially with his attitude.
Even if the previous poster meant prison rape I don't see where it was intended as something funny. He will find himself in all kinds of trouble that we don't even want to imagine.

[maxsolomon]

147. if so, then that should be part of his sentence.

personally, i think he should be put down like a mad dog.

[Kolesar]

4. Plain Dealer: T.J. Lane sentenced to life in prison in Chardon High School shootings

Geauga County Common Pleas Judge David Fuhry sentenced Lane for the slayings of Daniel Parmertor, 16; Demetrius Hewlin, 16; and Russell King Jr., 17, in a rampage that has tortured a small town and its students for the past year.

Lane sat silently as the sentence was read.

He later gave only this statement: "This hand that pulled the trigger that killed your sons now masturbates to the memory. F--- all of you."

Gasps were heard around the courtroom at that point and some in the gallery began to cry.

"You're really lucky there's so many police in this room," said Holly Walczak, mother of shooting victim Nick Walczak, who was left paralyzed, during her statement before sentencing as Lane smiled.

http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/index.ssf/2013/03/tj_lane_sentenced_in_chardon_h.html

"21st century gun culture" comes to my town.

[Blue_Tires]

21. I'm surprised his attorney let him get away with this...

Someone should ask the NRA for their comment on this stunt...

[Kolesar]

32. The *judge* could have had the bailiff take him out of the room ... eom

[sir pball]

45. I'd be tempted to cut off that hand he loves so well.. nt

[Mnemosyne]

65. Superglue his hand to such well loved body parts. nt

[ET Awful]

64. Yes, but if the Judge had done that, you wouldn't have this lovely display on the record for

a future parole board and/or appeals court to see.

[davidpdx]

168. I agree and think the judge would had every right to put him in a holding cell

and continue with his lawyer present in court. If someone wants to "show boat" like that and rub it in the victims faces, haul his ass out of court.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

109. It wouldn't have mattered

At some point he probably realized he was going away for a long, long time and said "fuck it, I'm going to be heard", as repugnant as it was.

[freshwest]

159. I doubt the attorney or judge knew that would happen and couldn't prevent it.

Legally, I think he has the right to say whatever he wants at that particular moment in time. You or I may have never want to use a last chance to talk outside prison that way, but, we're not him.

[greenman3610]

85. would have fit right in at CPAC

[Ruby the Liberal]

134. His parents must be so proud

What an ignorant thing to say. When this kid gets knocked off his self-imposed pedestal and into the land of reality, he is going to go down HARD. I only hope there is someone nearby with a cell phone when it happens. What an ignorant asshole.

[freshwest]

156. The five victims here. Top three deceased. One in hospital. Other released:

[shenmue]

6. Put him away.

Far away.

[Berlum]

7. When he cracks, he is going to FEEL THE PAIN

He can keep up his phonyass bravado for just so long, and then he will crack -- and he will have HELL to pay for what he has done and his shameful, hateful attitude about it.

[xtraxritical]

104. He will be in PC, protective custody, which means solitary, for the rest of his life. He should

welcome the death penalty if he gets that lucky.

[leftyohiolib]

124. i didnt hear that - theyre not putting him in gen pop

[Floyd_Gondolli]

126. Eventually he'll likely end up there

Once everyone (who didn't lose a family member) forgets about it.

[TommyCelt]

127. DP? No way.

Wouldn't waste the chemicals, or the $ and time that will be spent on his appeals

Let him live. I hear solitary can be horrible, especially for a narcissistic scumbag like this.

[MNBrewer]

8. Wow, what a psychopath.

[slackmaster]

23. Yes, otherwise known as a sociopath. The extreme version of Antisocial Personality Disorder.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001919/

[ellisonz]

9. This kid doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.

I look forward to him expressing remorse around age 60. Shit-stain.

[MicaelS]

17. No, I don't ever see him showing any remorse.

He'll be just as arrogant then as now.

[slackmaster]

24. Yes he does. He just doesn't care.

I look forward to him expressing remorse around age 60.

The prognosis for that ever happening is poor. He'll likely be killed, or kill himself, long before reaching that age.

[Archae]

30. He'll "find Jay-zus" and be featured on James Dobson's program.

Like Ted Bundy was.

[premium]

50. I seriously doubt that this kid will make it to 21.

Hardened convicts have a way of taking care of arrogant little shit stains like him.

[slackmaster]

94. Yes. They'll either kill him or make life so miserable that he kills himself.

[Botany]

11. That will be the last public smile he will ever have

He and his name will soon be forgotten except to his family and the family and friends
of those he killed ...... he will do the hardest of hard time and will be beaten and raped
by some of the toughest thugs in America.



Lucasville Prison is no joke.

[lexw]

19. As the vehicle pulls up and he sees that place, that smile will be loooooong gone—never to return.

[Archae]

29. I sure hope so.

Just look how Ted Bundy conned so many, including a TV preacher.

[freshwest]

155. Replied on the wrong post, I think.

[freshwest]

61. IDK. He seems to be a 'consumer.' May look at it as just a game. He had no respect for society.

Last edited Tue Mar 19, 2013, 09:49 PM - Edit history (1)

He'll be with others who, in differing levels, had little respect for others. If he gets the chance he will make alliances to abuse others in prison, is my bet. I've never been there, so what do I know?

I only speak what I've heard of infamous murderers who didn't seem to mind being there at all. There are gangs of predators in prison and he could find a place in their heirarchy, no doubt.

No disrespect to those who have gone to prison and honestly want better lives when they leave, but some don't. We have notorious cases of those who killed and were later released and killed again.

Others who left and helped others stay away from the road to prison are a great benefits to their communities.

[Mike Daniels]

116. Richard Speck in a notorious video that was taken while he was in prison

Declared that if people knew what a great time he was having in prison they would set him free.

Some people thrive emotionally/mentally in a jailhouse setting. I hope this loser isn't one of them.

[freshwest]

123. He may be. He'll be with other lifers. They didn't get there by being nice.

I don't favor the death penalty. As long as they can't cause trouble outside prison as some have with the help of family and friends in gangs, etc. it's not a problem for society.

Except for those in charge of them, and I don't see how they keep their sanity dealing with vicious persons like this guy appears to be. I wonder if they give people who will never get out therapy or training since there'd be little use for it. But it might help if they eventually were released on the public again.

[lexw]

145. I guess you're right: I was putting myself in his shoes as he approached the prison...

[freshwest]

146. OTOH, you may be right and I may be wrong. It just seemed his acts were a long time coming, is all.

I doubt if he just flipped out and shot those kids, and he knew what he did in the court room would hurt their parents, likely didn't feel he deserved prison, or so such defiance might indicate. I don't know, really, just speculating.

We'll only see one side of this play, never see what all went into it. I would hope that he is able to learn to behave differently, because we can 'never say never' on prison terms.

When I lived in TX years ago, serial killers that juries thought would do life without parole, were released when prison crowding became a problem. CA is releasing a lot of people, too, IDK if they are dangerous or not.

But some of the serial killers in TX upon being released, went on killing sprees, robbing, kidnapping, raping, torturing and murdering until caught. It was part of the reason the death penalty returned after some time without it.

The public wants safety from predators, and if you can't trust the system to keep them locked up, measures will be taken. The level of violence in this country may not be any higher than it ever was, it may be mass communications that is showing so much going on.

I would like to believe that a more functional society would not produce so much depravity as we've seen lately. But it may have always been there and we didn't see it.

[Eleanors38]

154. I see your points. Celebrity fascination -- enhanced by an almost desperate MSM --

Has probably added to the allure of shock visciousness, and made it seem more prevalent when it isn't, but a kind of status is accorded punks of this sort, now, and may encourage violent acts as if they are legitimized entitlements in a society sick with celebrity.

[davidpdx]

169. Yep, the lifers don't give a fuck what happens to them

because essentially things can't get any worse. A young white kid in a state prison is like giving a cat a new toy. If he mouths off to someone (which we all know is going to happen) his situation will be very very grim quickly.

[freshwest]

172. If what was posted downthread about his family life is true, he passed the 'nothing to lose' stage a

long time ago. He is well versed in great violence and knows how to survive.

If he had any hopes of a better life, he may have lost it before he got to the court room. He may have been ready to explode for years.

Perhaps he felt entitled to do what he did or couldn't bear the incongruity of seeing others who weren't traumatized living their lives and being happy around him as if rubbing salt in a wound.

IDK if the domestic violence he lived with in his family that kept on going on, established a pattern by which he felt murderous violence was normal. If it had been stopped, he might have seen another way to live. The violence one suffers or sees at home can explode in the larger community later.

He may come to some wisdom later or he may find a place where he is. I doubt he'll start any fights, though. People do know how to keep quiet for survival.

[BobTheSubgenius]

149. About that recidivism...

Did you see the story about that kid in WA state that was picked up by his grandparents on his release, who took him home to a party they were having for his release? He later murdered them both and took their car.

[freshwest]

151. That was terrible. Was it on DU? I don't watch teevee.

[bobclark86]

80. Nope...

The killers stay with us far longer. How many dead do you remember the names of at Columbine? Everyone remembers Dylan and Eric. Just like everyone remembers Osama bin Laden.

No matter how much he is sodomized (because, as we all know, rape is a joking matter and such a message would have been banhammered long ago in any other context), people are still talking about him.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

128. His body count isn't high enough

Sorry to say, that's more or less what it boils down to when it comes to being infamous in this country.

At any rate, people remember Klebold and Harris because it was at the time the worst school shooting incident in history. And Bin Laden is remembered because he killed 3,000 people which resulted in two wars being fought. As repugnant as TJ Lane is, he's not quite in that echelon of homicidal maniacs.

Years from now it'll be "Hey, what was that kid's name who killed three kids at some HS in Indiana..."

[bobclark86]

129. Still enough to be on the next Lanza's "High Score" list.

They'll remember him. Not his victims.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

133. Trivia: Who is Mike Carneal?

Without googling it would you have known this off the top of your head? Unless you are a student of shootings you likely wouldn't know he was the guy who shot and killed 4 students in a Kentucky high school 16 years ago.

How about the Va. Tech shooter? I had trouble remembering his name just now and I was thoroughly immersed in the incident when it happened.

This kid will be largely forgotten, but I do agree, those who do remember will remember him more than his victims. Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy are good examples of that. People know who they are, but probably couldn't name one of their victims.

[raccoon]

176. Please don't use the names of the Columbine (or any other) killers. I believe that encourages

mass murderer wannabes.

[Downtown Hound]

12. As the years in prison go by

I pretty much guarantee you that that smile will disappear.

[Blue_Tires]

13. His parents must be proud...

[MicaelS]

14. Rot, indeed.

Put him in isolation. One hour out for exercise, the other 23 in his cell. By himself. Can't see or talk to anyone else.

[davidpdx]

170. Actually isolation (protective custody) would be a mixed bag

Yes, it would prevent him from talking to people, but it would also ensure the other lifers don't make mince meat out of him. If he were in general population all he'd have to do is run his mouth off and a lifer would start clobbering him. I'd think he'd have to be in protective custody.

It will be interesting to see what they do.

[DetlefK]

15. quote from article: "three life terms in prison with no chance for parole"

Let's see if he still smiles 50 years from now.

[freshwest]

160. I wonder if it really means that? So many people have gotten out of prison who had life sentences.

What a jury and court wants is not always respected in the future.

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. Once he opened his outer shirt

exposing the t-shirt the judge should have had him removed from the courtroom.

To have the victim's families witness his display was outrageous.

I hope he doesn't live to see another day.

[theHandpuppet]

62. Totally agree with you there

I don't understand why the judge didn't have him immediately removed from the courtroom.

[AtheistCrusader]

135. That seemed unusual to me.

I would have tossed his ass out the second he revealed his shirt.

[deutsey]

83. I agree

That was obviously contempt of court as well as of the families.

Not sure what the judge was thinking.

[RedstDem]

115. I kinda agree

i must take exception with one thing, I hope he lives a long, long, long life of misery.
the death penalty is an easy way out IMO.

[winter is coming]

194. IMO, the point of the t-shirt and flipping the bird was because the

defendant imagined he was creating his moment of glory. He wanted to be outrageous. Ignoring his behavior and proceeding with the sentencing as if his actions (and by extension, the defendant himself) were insignificant probably minimizes the impact of his action far more than hustling out of the courtroom would have done.

As for the families, they probably already hate his guts and might have been happy that he was sentenced and sent away as quickly as possible.

[jberryhill]

20. Apparently, the psychologist made a bad call on competence

Before the case went to adult court last year, a juvenile court judge ruled that Lane was mentally competent to stand trial despite evidence he suffers from hallucinations, psychosis and fantasies.

But, these sorts of obviously twisted minds provide a convenient outlet for everyone else's sense of moral outrage and violent fantasies of their own.

[Kolesar]

27. The psychologist said he was sick, but gun-nut Judge Grendell decided to ignore that and try him.

Grendell used to by my state rep. He sponsored the bill that took away our cities' ability to regulate firearms.

[geek tragedy]

70. Actually, the judge made the right call.

Grendell listened to the prosecution, defense and psychiatrist Dr. Phillip Resnick, who conducted a six-hour interview with Lane on April 2, before making his decision.

“It’s my opinion, he does suffer from a mental disorder, but that mental disorder does not currently interfere with the functions necessary for his competence to stand trial,” Resnick said.

Mental disorder is not the same as being legally insane.



http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/ohio-school-schooting-suspect-t-j-lane-competent-to-stand-trial-judge-rules/

[Archae]

28. Looks to me like there was "evidence..."

That he was faking those "hallucinations, psychosis and fantasies."

I used to know a guy who did fake all those, and he went to a mental hospital instead of jail for rape.

[jberryhill]

33. I didn't conduct an examination of the kid

So, perhaps you might share your notes on your examination of him, since no qualified psychologist would ever suspect that someone might be trying to fake something.

[geek tragedy]

66. How is it evidence he was incompetent to stand trial?

He knew what he was doing, clearly. He was aware enough to taunt the families.

Crazy and evil and competent aren't mutually exclusive. The world would be much safer if they were.

Court psychologist found he was competent:

Grendell listened to the prosecution, defense and psychiatrist Dr. Phillip Resnick, who conducted a six-hour interview with Lane on April 2, before making his decision.

“It’s my opinion, he does suffer from a mental disorder, but that mental disorder does not currently interfere with the functions necessary for his competence to stand trial,” Resnick said.

Mental disorder is not the same as being legally insane.



http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/ohio-school-schooting-suspect-t-j-lane-competent-to-stand-trial-judge-rules/

[randome]

87. But might a mental disorder have a bearing on the crime in the first place?

[geek tragedy]

88. Maybe, but usually not.

In any event, the defendant decided he didn't want to claim he was insane, so it wasn't an issue at trial.

[jberryhill]

112. I believe his behavior here is pretty much Res Ipsa Loquitur there

[geek tragedy]

121. How so? He was already convicted.

Being an especially foul and cruel human being doesn't make him incompetent.

[Kali]

98. thank you

[FedUpWithIt All]

163. + + + + + + +

The psychiatrist testified that he felt Lane would be capable of working with his attorney's in his own defense. That did not happen.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

22. I hope he dies a horrible death

Go ahead and alert, I don't give a fuck. What a vile piece of shit.

[Occulus]

131. I hope he dies naturally, a long, long time from now, and in otherwise good health

because that would be a far worse and more lasting punishment, and a longer term, than any horrible or premature death.

I want this kid to live a great many decades, and die peacefully, of old age, in his prison bunk, and only after having seen those decades pass in waste and unrealized possibilities and missed opportunities. He deserves that fate more than any other.

[Still Blue in PDX]

25. TJ who?

My heart goes out to the victims, but I won't waste a single synapse on that little shit.

[gateley]

26. Bravado -- I bet he's terrified inside. At least I hope he is.

[Blue_Tires]

38. Maybe he's trying to get solitary confinement

he looks too scrawny to hold his own physically...

[littlewolf]

82. in all likelihood he will get solitary aka PC protective custody

at least for a few years until the notoriety has died down.
then he will be given a different name and on paper a different crime
(on the computer it will show who he is and what he did)
and he will be put into the general pop.
or he will be transfered out of state either way.

[Moostache]

31. Stunning sign of the times...

This ass-clown is nothing more than a product of our idiotic use of television and the desensitization of our entire culture. To be sure, it is NOT television (or movies, books, games or any other single thing that set him off), but TV IS responsible for broadcasting his "story" to the nation and the world as part of an overall culture of sensationalism that is unrelenting and destructive.

Instead of being a platform for useful communication and enrichment of the public square, TV is a wasteland of morons, bad intentions, violence, sex and amoral behavior passed along for rubbernecking the human car crashes of our time, selling us crap we do not need as status symbols and making us all a little more callous day by day.

We, who read about this kind of sick punk, or see the images of the psychopath in Newtown, or Aurora, or any other case that gets national attention; we are victimized by this as our own levels of outrage are tested and pushed further out case by case.

I have personally not recovered from Newtown and those were not my children, only children the same age as one of my own. But I am haunted by the ease with which someone could enter my children's school and the fact that no amount of locks or policies are going to stop a dedicated sociopath intent on killing and exchanging their own life in the process.

This brat from Ohio is going to end up as a footnote in history - a prison rape case and probable suicide, but he has forever hurt the families of his victims and forever hurt our national conscience in ways that cannot be undone by his ultimate demise. We need to change the entire trajectory of society or watch it eat itself slowly, day by day, horrific act by horrific act.

[freshwest]

54. +1

[jberryhill]

58. Tens of millions of teenagers don't do this

How is this one stellar abnormality, in a population of tens of millions of teenagers living perfectly normal lives a "sign of the times"?

It seems to be more of a statistical certainty that, yes, there will be psychopaths.

[kurtzapril4]

136. Speak for yourself, Moostache.

1) His story is in the news because it IS news. That's how it works. I don't get this crap where "news shouldn't be reported because it sensationalises it." So, should crimes never be reported on the TV? Maybe it was sensationalised in Ohio at the time, but I barely heard about it. And the only reason we're hearing about it now is because of the little turds ridiculous behaviour, which again, IS news.

2) TV is a tool...you can use it, or it can use you. Your choice.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

139. Your first two paragraphs ...

... are quite reactionary, and have no foundation in reality.

The rest of your post somewhat tempered those two nonsensical paragraphs.

[Posteritatis]

142. Careful with that horse. You're showing symptoms of hypoxia. (nt)

[nolabear]

34. Note something interesting about the video. He smirks when attacked, but not when victims described.

Imo what you are seeing is a defense against feeling in a young man who committed an unthinkable act and in some part knows it. I don't know much about the case so don't know what his background is, but that "KILLER" shirt (who on earth was in charge of him that he could do that and be allowed to wear it in court in front of those families?) is a loud "See how tough I am? I'm proud of who I am!" shriek that I expect blocks out all potential realization of what he actually is, a wounded person who locked onto a horrible way to try to elevate himself above those he perceived were wounding him (either in fact or in effigy).

I'm glad he got the sentence he got, but I think being around other people who also elevate themselves through the reinforcement of the conviction that they are badasses and not suffering, frightened people, is just throwing any possibility of him becoming a better, though still incarcerated, human being to the wind.

I hope the families find some kind of peace in the middle of this horror.

[judesedit]

40. We all suffer from different levels of different attacks. Get him away from the society. He can run

his mouth in prison. He was a real big man with a gun in his hand. Let's see how big he is when the inmates get hold of him. I guess he thinks this will go over with the others. Or he's trying to emulate crazy. Sad but I honestly see him as a smug spoiled punk.

[freshwest]

57. For all we know, he may have admirers in prison, who think he's sticking to society like they did.

[nolabear]

59. Totally agree he should be removed, but do you really relish the idea of a human being tortured?

Not just saying it because you hate him or what he did, but really? Caused pain and injury? Would you do it yourself if you had the choice?

I can empathize with the feeling but if I was given the choice of condemning him to a life of torture and a life of confinement wherein he was given the chance to change, not to be free but just to change, then I'd pick that.

[Kali]

105. ...

thank you

[jberryhill]

113. It's interesting....

How these sorts of things bring out the bloodlust.

It's a pre-existing hatred simply looking for a justifiable target. Mass killers merely set the dial incorrectly, but we are only looking at a difference of degree, and not a difference of kind.

[Kali]

118. I can sort of understand it

but I rarely feel it. And it always shocks me, though I know it will be there.


doesn't help I was just reading a passage in a lame novel involving the public burning of heretics during the Inquisition. A festive atmosphere.

[nolabear]

138. I understand it too, and in a rage might feel it.

But I know it's impossible to assume perfect knowledge about another. I can with some real sadness say "Because of what you did I won't let you be among people" but if I truly advocate for torture of any person I am no better. And if I wave torches and pitchforks without actually meaning it, then my words become meaningless, and I am WAY too vain about the value of what I say to let that happen!

[freshwest]

158. I don't feel any rage toward him. The object is to keep this from happening again. I hope not.

The system can take care of him for the rest of his life. I doubt they would let anything happen to him on purpose. They've revived people on death row who had nearly commited suicide.

Once the door is locked because one is no longer able to be trusted with their freedom, it's a tragedy for everyone. I wonder how long anyone knew there was a problem. I followed links about the shooting.

They were all were being transported back and forth by bus, it appeared their classes were in more than one location. One of the stops was an at risk class that they were all in. There were no details about problems, just hints.

The students he shot were running away from him as he gunned them down. The people in the building they were running to were trying to hide.

I don't know how they got hold of him. The students did not die on the scene, but in the hospital. No one stated why this happened. Why he felt it necessary to behave in court the way he did, no one knows, but it was remarkable.

[nolabear]

185. I know. One of the worst thing about these things is we can only see them in the rearview mirror.

And it leaves all of us with "What didn't I see?" and "What could I have done?" and feeling unreasonably guilty. And so we punish to try to teach a lesson to others and to keep this very ill person from spewing his fatal illness out again, like a plague dog who is not going to die himself but whose illness will cause death and destruction in others.

[freshwest]

192. This is the lesson here, that we effect each other. The DV in his history was a great part of it.

Such shocks can be hidden but they will come out. It's the reason why we fight for a more enlightened, humane society - the VAWA is part of that - and strong intervention years ago might have avoided this. WA had or probably still has, a zero tolerance policy on DV, even taking what some states would consider draconian measures to break the cycle of violence. There is so much in this country that needs cleansing.

[nolabear]

195. .

Thanks for a really good conversation. Being able to talk about difficult matters is a big part of the change.

[Occulus]

132. Your answer lies in the results of the Milgram Experiment.

The results were.... not encouraging.

[idwiyo]

143. +1 I will not wish torture, or illness, or cruelty on anyone. I will NOT lower myself to that level.

My humanity is more important to me than revenge.

[geek tragedy]

35. Good choice to try this monster as an adult.

May memory of him fade from the world.

[judesedit]

36. I feel for his family.They are probably afraid of him, too.I can hear him squealing now.Punk

[Blue_Tires]

43. Look up his parents' history (especially dad's) and it's easy to see how he turned out

[Archae]

47. I never heard of this...

Links?

[Blue_Tires]

51. here...

Geauga County court records show the father of the teen who authorities say shot five students at Chardon High School on Monday had been arrested many times for violent crimes against women in his life, including Lane's mother. More than once, police or courts warned him to stay away from the boy and his mother....

...The teen had one prior case in Geauga County Juvenile court two years ago. Officials would not release information on the case. But several at the court said the family's troubles were known to social workers in the county.

The father, Thomas Lane Jr., was known to county authorities because of a series of arrests for abusing women in his life, court records show. It's not clear how much contact the father and son had.

But between 1995 and 1997, the boy's father and mother, Sara A. Nolan, were each charged with domestic violence against each other.

The father was later charged with assaulting a police officer and served time in prison after trying to suffocate another woman he married several years after his son was born, according to court records.

He held the woman's head under running water and bashed it into a wall, leaving a dent in the drywall, court records show.

But soon after he went to prison, the woman wrote a letter asking that he be released early.

She had divorced Thomas Lane but said in the letter that he was always a good father to their twin daughters and a son she had before they married...

http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/index.ssf/2012/02/parents_of_teen_accused_of_sho.html

[jberryhill]

55. "It's not clear how much contact the father and son had."

Many normal people are the children of violent felons.

Given that he was under a court order to stay away from the kid, then what is it you are suggesting?

[Blue_Tires]

63. Even if there was little to no contact, the son would have at least known of dad's history

Maybe the son thought he was destined to be a person like his father...Or maybe he *wanted* to be a person like his father...

Or maybe he just inherited dad's psychological tendencies toward overly violent behavior and a general hatred of everyone...

But yeah, please keep thinking dad is completely blameless in how his son's world view came to be...

[leftyohiolib]

71. makes as much sense as blaming someone who had little or no contact

[jberryhill]

111. I believe that competent individuals are responsible for their own actions

And your characterization that I consider anyone to be "completely blameless" is intellectually dishonest on your part, and a mischaracterization of what I said.

There are millions of children of felons. If it is your desire to stigmatize all of them due to corruption of blood or "inherited tendencies", you are certainly entitled to hold medieval beliefs.

[FedUpWithIt All]

165. They did have at least some contact.

http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/index.ssf/2012/03/official_records_from_ohio_sch.html

Timothy Fogarty lives across the street from the house TJ shared with his father, brother and sister. The house has been empty since they moved away about five years ago. The bedroom doors are padlocked on the outside

Fogarty said, "We never saw them playing, never saw them behaving like children. ... The house had been turned into something like looked like a jail cell."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57389221/tj-lane-knew-some-shooting-victims-well/

[nolabear]

60. Imagine living that life as a little child, and seeing and hearing those things. Horrifying.

Children should never go through such things. It destroys them, and they in turn destroy others. Such a tragedy.

[freshwest]

161. Yes, that makes his outburst a little more understandable - but not helpful to anyone or himself.

That's why I'm glad WA is extremely pro-active in domestic violence cases. The cycle must be broken, and it takes a lot of support to do it.

I've talked to some who had seen such an increase with drug use and child molestation, they say they don't believe they can help anymore.

A public defender I knew told me why she was leaving it. Not because of all her clients, but some. Her words haunted me -'Some people are just broken.'

She was burnt out, seen too much. It happens to some very caring people, such as she was. After a while, one has to take time to heal.

[nolabear]

186. I no longer counsel kids because so many are "designated patients".

The child manifests symptoms sometimes because they are the unwitting and unwilling truthtellers about a family that has some serious, serious problems. And rather than solving the problems the family turns its attention to the problem of the child. Then as the child begins to improve they can't do that and don't want to confront their own problems, and jerk the child out of therapy before it can go too far. It's a wretched experience.

[davidpdx]

171. I did

At least with my mother and father. The memories aren't clear and that was 25 years ago. Neither of my parents are (were) what I would describe as very good human beings (my father passed 10 years ago, and my mother and I have somewhat of a strained relationship). You can't blame me for not wanting kids. I couldn't live with myself if my kids were screwed up. For some people its just better off that way. I have two siblings (one is a half-sibling) and I really hope neither of them has children either. As the eldest I feel pretty strongly that I'll try to persuade them from doing so.

[nolabear]

187. I'm so sorry. I hope you find some real satisfaction in your life.

[FedUpWithIt All]

164. Far from it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=430341

[freshwest]

196. Puts the OP into a different light. Thanks for bringing it upthread.

They were all in 'at risk' classes. It doesn't excuse anything that happened, but explains some.

[riderinthestorm]

37. Whoa. You rarely get to see a sociopath on full display. Those poor families in the courtroom... nt

[mokawanis]

39. Classic sociopath

No empathy for anyone at any time for any reason. He may even enjoy prison, where he can make a career of breaking the rules, taunting the guards and his fellow prisoners, and plotting violent acts. He's monstrous.

[AndyA]

41. Not sure what it is, but it isn't human

His parents must be horrid to have raised such a pile of excrement. (Haven't heard anything about them, but he surely needed some serious help and didn't get it.)

[sir pball]

44. Not necessarily

Abuse and maltreatment doesn't result in this. This is proof positive that sometimes people are just broken, born that way. I don't think all the help in the world could ever fix him...but at least he could have been locked safely away before this tragedy.

[AndyA]

53. Just checked. The parents were cockroaches

The kid should have been taken away from them years ago.

Abuse and maltreatment in his family dates back to 1995, and this environment often leads to more violent acts in families. Not always, but often. Doing nothing in this case was certainly not the thing to do.

[yodermon]

81. Not all abuse and maltreatment result in violent murderers, but all violent murderers

DID undergo abuse and maltreatment.

(By "all" I mean 99.999%, there will always be the very rare exception.)

Once again, because many tend to reverse the implication when they read this:
Nearly all murderers (& violent criminals) were abused sometime in their lives (usually as children) prior to the violent acts they commited.

But NOT ALL such abused individuals turn out to be violent criminals/murderers.



Point being, it still behooves us to concentrate on preventing child abuse, with the goal of reducing (future) violent criminals.


see James Gilligan's works:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gilligan

http://www.amazon.com/Violence-Reflections-National-James-Gilligan/dp/0679779124

[sir pball]

190. I'm not saying he wasn't abused nor that abuse is not an issue

But I don't think abuse alone can create this level of utter sociopathy. He's not JUST the product of maltreatment; he was broken from the get-go. If he hadn't been abused and been diagnosed and treated he probably wouldn't have done this horrible thing, but I suspect he would have still had an utter lack of empathy and compassion - he would have been a banker.

[slackmaster]

48. He's a human being with a very severe mental illness

It is not necessarily the result of any fault of his parents.

[AndyA]

56. The parents certainly didn't help

Lane Jr. (the father) has also been charged with assaulting a police officer and served time in prison after trying to suffocate a woman by holding water flowing from a hose over her mouth and nose so she could not breathe. Filing for divorce from the teen’s mother in 2002, Lane Jr. was charged with attempted murder, felonious assault and kidnapping.

Nice.

[Kolesar]

92. Families need guns to protect them from "evil"

/sarcasm
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57386904-504083/report-tj-lane-alleged-school-shooter-grew-up-with-family-violence/

The records say between 1995 and 1997, the boy's father and mother, Sara A. Nolan, were each charged with domestic violence against each other.

At a later date, the father was charged with assaulting a police officer and served time in prison after trying to suffocate another woman he married several years after his son was born, according to court records.

[jberryhill]

52. .

The kid's brain doesn't work right. Something is broken. It happens.

[leftyohiolib]

72. His parents must be horrid- doubt it after reading about the father

[sir pball]

42. A bullet is a hell of a lot cheaper than three hot and a cot

I don't support the death penalty because error cannot be eliminated, not out of any particular moral compunction. I'm quite comfortable with putting down dangerous animals like this...thing.

[bamacrat]

79. Agreed.

Taking pride in killing deserves death. This little shit doesn't deserve any more money spent on them. Although the prison showers could be worse than death.

[premium]

46. He's a tough guy now,

wait until he gets to prison, not jail, but a real prison and meets some real tough guys.
Child killers don't fare well in prison.

[richmwill]

49. A mother of one of the victims stated my sentiments...

"I hope you have a cold, rough, unkind prison life with monsters like yourself," she said. "If I had my choice you would die an extremely slow, torturous death...You're a weak, pathetic, vile coward."

Laugh now, little brat. When prison life turns you into a scared, crying little boy- then I'll laugh.

[devilgrrl]

67. Ayn Rand would have loved that little punk

eom

[samsingh]

68. these are the types of people the nra and supporters want to be armed

[Iggo]

69. It's his last hurrah, and he knows it.

Ignore him. He's going away forever.

[get the red out]

73. Sociopath

I am glad for the mother of one of the victims being able to express her anger at him though. The news media seems to like to poke at victims families trying to get them to say they have "forgiven" the criminal almost immediately following the crime these days.

[valerief]

74. If only he had a tax break or more guns. nt

[Javaman]

75. meh, he's a young sociopath...

his false sense of bravdo will vanish once he's released to the general prison population.

all teens at that age, think they are tough, very very very few are.

He will learn.

[ErikJ]

76. Looks like a Young Republican.

[beachgirl2365]

78. He wanted revenge!!!

on the world for being born.............

[Tommy_Carcetti]

84. Hope he enjoys staring at a jail cell wall for the rest of his life. nt

[hedgehog]

86. To the posters above who call this man an animal and suggest putting him down,

and to those speculating on how the other convicts will treat him:

1. Do you really know how you would have turned out if you were raised as he was?

2. What does it say about us as a society when our response to someone so damaged is to damage him further?

I agree, he needs to be someplace where he can't harm other people. But extend some of the proposals. If we want to punish him, why not put him behind walls in an open field with no water and toss a loaf of bread in from time to time? Why not put him out on an ice floe and let nature take its course? Why not give every prisoner a machete and shove them into a fenced area?


There was a time when it was acceptable to take children from there mother and sell them. Some day people will look back at us and ask what the hell we were thinking!

[randome]

89. Agreed. Wishing death and misery on someone does not make us better.

[eggplant]

100. +1.

There is no upside here. A bunch of people are dead, still others injured. A town is traumatized. The perpetrator will spend the rest of his life in prison. Maybe he'll come to terms with his crime, but I don't hold out any real hope of that. If he does, then he'll have to figure out how to do something positive for society from his cell.

My best wishes go out to the families and the community. There's a long road of healing ahead.

[FedUpWithIt All]

166. Thank you.

DU is an off-putting and unfamiliar place sometimes. It is disgusting to me how many seem thrilled by the prospect of harm coming to a person when they have clearly spent so little time even familiarizing themselves with the situation. Ugh.

[freshwest]

197. I'm not sure why it is. You don't get angry at a rabid dog, you neutralize the danger it presents.

I'm not calling him a dog, but that is how this behavior and these kinds of actions appear.

The anger is based on fear, pain or a sense of injustice - would anyone blame a dog for coming down with a virulent disease?

I'm also not saying he couldn't have made better choices - but the courtroom display was sick.

[Ninga]

90. Say what you will, but behind those quick blinking eyes, lies fear. Fear of his unknown future. His

bravado is classic cover up for fear. The adults should not take his bait.

It was argued to me that he is a misbegotten child, with no practical life experience who allowed fantasy to fill his mind and with no adult guidance or caring to set boundaries, teach and set him straight.

Don't mistake this as an excuse or a reason. It just is.


It is a sad, sad, mess.

[Paul E Ester]

91. Can we start calling these losers by a code name

Loser of March 2013, should be this guys nickname.

The Connecticut wako should be referred to as the Loser of December 2012

I saw a new york times article that prominently had pictures of all these killers.

These killers are scum and showing them over and over in the media only encourages more mentally ill losers to imitate them.

There is a reason the media does not report suicides. People imitate.

That cop in LA, he was the Loser of Feb. 2013

[slackmaster]

96. John Brunner coined a general term for them in the novel "Stand On Zanzibar"

Muckers - People who run amok. In the book they are only rarely captured alive, just like a lot of mass murderers in modern times.

[FailureToCommunicate]

97. Good idea. Especially since we now learn that the "Loser of Dec. 2012" had kept notes

-meticulous notes- on previous killers and 'wanted to be even bigger, be at the top of the list'

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/1014429061

[onehandle]

99. Totally worth our AMERICAN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO GUNS.

Praise to our American God, Guns.

[Lucky Luciano]

101. 24/7 dark solitary confinement for life sounds about right.

Only a concrete floor to sleep on.

[Myrina]

102. What, by the way, was his motive?

Thx.

[geek tragedy]

106. Jealousy of his ex-girlfiend--he shot a guy dating her. nt

[FedUpWithIt All]

167. According to tesimony from fellow classmates, the victim had been openly threatening TJ

after he began dating TJ's ex. Classmates say that TJ began working out in case he would need to defend himself.

[frylock]

117. that little cutie pie is going to be popular in prison..

and nope, this isn't a rape joke. it's the straight truth.

[geek tragedy]

130. That character from Oz who meets with a terrible fate, which leaves

the audience unmoved.

[EvilAL]

125. If it had been one of my family members

and I would have been there seeing that smirk on his face nobody could have stopped me from running over there and kicking his fucking face in.

[secondvariety]

137. Good riddance

to the puke. Damn shame he ever existed.

[Joey Liberal]

140. He's a young republican

Nuff said.

[Tx4obama]

141. Kick n/t

[Rocknrule]

144. A term that describes him perfectly

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmugSnake

[BlueStater]

150. Have fun in prison, asshole.

Your smug attitude won't last long once you meet your cellmates.

[Kablooie]

152. This young man will certainly brighten the day for some older, vicious, seasoned inmates.

May he regret his conviction someday.

[flvegan]

157. Congratulations DU!

If I need to say more, you didn't read many of the previous posts. Shameful. Nothing more.

[Orsino]

193. I guess our little revenge/rape fantasies...

...are less horrifying than the pain he visited on these families, but goddamn we're setting the bar low. Like, FR low.

[FedUpWithIt All]

162. TJ Lane is a very sick boy who has auditory hallucinations, depression and involuntary fantasies

Last edited Wed Mar 20, 2013, 02:47 AM - Edit history (1)

Against his attorney's recommendations he pled guilty. The mental illness was mentioned several times during earlier hearings. The psychiatrist from Case Western Reserve University, who was brought in to determine competency, found Lane to be seriously mentally ill.

Tj Lane spent time, as a child, with a very violent father (Thomas M. Lane, III was indicted on three counts of aggravated murder, two counts of aggravated attempted murder, and one count of felonious assault of his wife after he assaulted and verbally threatened her for 9 hours in the presence of three children. He also has arrests on a wide range of offenses including drug abuse and possession, violation of probation, public intoxication and disorderly conduct) and a violent, alcoholic mother before being placed to live with his grandparents. His older brother died a couple of months ago at 19 after a long history of drug abuse.

There were quite a few students, at the time of the shooting, who were coming forward in local media reports and relating that one of the victims, after he began dating TJ Lane's ex girlfriend, was telling people at the school that he was going to harm TJ. Students told reporters that TJ had begun working out so he could defend himself.

So you have a very sick boy, who was steeped in violence and aggression from infancy, who was shuffled around in his early life, and who was, supposedly, feeling threatened.


His behavior at the hearing, before the judge issued the sentencing, and his insistence on a guilty plea which eliminated any possible sanity defense felt to me like a type of self sabotage.


My point in all this is not to suggest that his behavior wasn't appalling and disgusting, but to point out that this boy is FAR from a spoiled brat. He has a LOT of demons.

Edited to add this from a neighbor of TJ's father, who claims that TJ and his siblings lived with their dad for a time.

Timothy Fogarty lives across the street from the house TJ shared with his father, brother and sister. The house has been empty since they moved away about five years ago. The bedroom doors are padlocked on the outside

Fogarty said, "We never saw them playing, never saw them behaving like children. ... The house had been turned into something like looked like a jail cell."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57389221/tj-lane-knew-some-shooting-victims-well/

[JNelson6563]

173. Glimmers of humanity.

Your post and just a few others on this thread display some humanity, I have no idea who these other people are.

I am shocked at how many don't grasp this kid is scared to death and is putting on a brave face as he's probably had to do all of his (already) miserable life.

Julie

[nonoyes]

179. Agree 110%

When I first heard and saw anything about this case, I was wondering what his family life had been like.

Sounds like it was a living hell for the kids in that family. Of course this doesn't excuse the tragedy he brought on for so many other families, but we need to know that causes have effects upon the growth of a child.

[nonoyes]

180. Thanks for the link to this background info.

Looks like TJ had a pretty hellish life. Not an excuse for the tragedy brought on so many families, but we must realize that family upbringing plays a huge part for many guys like this.

[FedUpWithIt All]

181. Thanks for reading and considering it.

It breaks my heart that, too often, the ones who have already had to endure chronic victimization will continue to have to endure.

We understand when a victim of a public crime gets angry and calls for vengeance. To my mind, i see this boy as a victim, thought his life, who had called for vengeance and was sick enough to act on it. He suffered in silence for a very long time and we do not always recognize this type of suffering. I have no idea why but domestic violence and neglect are still issues we have a great deal of trouble really accepting and empathizing with.

Nothing about care for this boy diminishes heartbreak for the victims or their families. As a society, we cannot allow broken and dangerous people to walk freely, living out the consequences of their own victimization. But we CAN stop the calls for further violence and we CAN have some compassion. And we CAN learn.

[nonoyes]

182. Agree 110%

As we cut funding for social services, child endangerment, courts, youth programs, kids like this grow up between the cracks, and we see these ugly results of our callousness.

[magical thyme]

183. thank you. What I saw was teenage bravado masking terror.

Not a sociopath. A broken young person who knows he committed an unthinkable crime, who now has nothing to do but think about what he has done for the rest of his already apparently miserable life.

Very sad for the victims. Very sad for him and his wretched family. The children should have been taken away from those parents many, many years ago.

[duhneece]

189. Thank your for taking the higher ground nt

[In_The_Wind]

174. Obviously TJ Lane has a death wish.

[HughBeaumont]

175. I choose to shun him.

You feed into his hate, you give him exactly what he wants.

[Amaya]

177. What this kid did is horrible and inexcusable

but he is obviously sick. Someone should have help this kid a long time ago. He took the lives of 3 and now his life is over. It's all around tragic and was probably preventible.

[Freddie Stubbs]

178. Two words: general population

[Paladin]

191. Forget This Sick Little Punk. He's History.

Think ahead to all the equally twisted monsters out there, intent on doing the maximum damage possible with an easily-obtained collection of guns and ammo---and the fact that there's nothing much to stop such individuals from doing their very worst, and the fact that a considerable number of people think that's an acceptable state of affairs.....