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Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:39 AM

Four CT Football Players Charged In Rape Of 13-Year-Olds

Source: AP

TORRINGTON, Conn. (AP) — A fourth high school football player has been charged in a statutory rape case involving two 13-year-old girls who’ve been taunted online by supporters of the accused.

The 17-year-old boy from Torrington was charged Wednesday with second-degree assault and risk of injury to a minor in connection with an alleged January incident. Three other Torrington High School football team members were charged with similar crimes within the past two months.

The boy’s name is being withheld because of his age, and his case is being handled in juvenile court. Details of his arrest are sealed from public view.

School officials say the boy arrested Wednesday has been suspended from school.

Officials are continuing to warn students that online bullying will not be tolerated and could lead to suspension or expulsion.

-30-

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/four-ct-football-players-charged-in-rape-of-13-year-olds.php?ref=fpb

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Reply Four CT Football Players Charged In Rape Of 13-Year-Olds (Original post)
DonViejo Mar 2013 OP
liberal N proud Mar 2013 #1
Zoonart Mar 2013 #4
Tempest Mar 2013 #6
Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #35
alp227 Mar 2013 #41
Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #49
bettyellen Mar 2013 #55
Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #65
bettyellen Mar 2013 #73
wryter2000 Mar 2013 #9
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #13
awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #26
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #28
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #31
jeff47 Mar 2013 #15
naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #17
redqueen Mar 2013 #43
naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #54
redqueen Mar 2013 #58
naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #61
redqueen Mar 2013 #62
naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #68
One_Life_To_Give Mar 2013 #63
naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #69
One_Life_To_Give Mar 2013 #70
L0oniX Mar 2013 #19
Post removed Mar 2013 #23
SoCalNative Mar 2013 #52
rbixby Mar 2013 #27
kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #36
Zoonart Mar 2013 #45
SkyDaddy7 Mar 2013 #51
Ash_F Mar 2013 #60
NewJeffCT Mar 2013 #7
Arkansas Granny Mar 2013 #12
geek tragedy Mar 2013 #8
Moostache Mar 2013 #25
RKP5637 Mar 2013 #29
Mosby Mar 2013 #48
Moostache Mar 2013 #50
mopinko Mar 2013 #11
TrogL Mar 2013 #24
winter is coming Mar 2013 #33
Mopar151 Mar 2013 #76
niyad Mar 2013 #2
In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #3
redqueen Mar 2013 #44
In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #47
NewJeffCT Mar 2013 #5
alp227 Mar 2013 #42
tblue37 Mar 2013 #10
NewJeffCT Mar 2013 #14
tblue37 Mar 2013 #16
naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #18
L0oniX Mar 2013 #20
Blackjackdavey Mar 2013 #21
radicalliberal Mar 2013 #34
Blackjackdavey Mar 2013 #39
redqueen Mar 2013 #46
rtracey Mar 2013 #22
lark Mar 2013 #30
Blackjackdavey Mar 2013 #37
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #32
radicalliberal Mar 2013 #38
In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #40
radicalliberal Mar 2013 #57
In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #59
radicalliberal Mar 2013 #66
In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #67
olddots Mar 2013 #53
chervilant Mar 2013 #56
sendero Mar 2013 #64
chervilant Mar 2013 #71
sendero Mar 2013 #72
chervilant Mar 2013 #74
davidpdx Mar 2013 #75
Skittles Mar 2013 #77

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:42 AM

1. What is it with High School football?

I played football when I was in High School and I don't remember this sort of thing being acceptable or even being considered as an activity.



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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:50 AM

4. TWO WORDS

INTERNET PORN+ the hyper sexualization of our young girls and boys= rape
This is a collision of cultural devolution and not enough parental control and supervision.
We were afraid of parental wrath and we lacked the opportunity... there was always someone supervising us.
Cue the porn protectors in 3...2...

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:57 AM

6. This kind of thing has been going on for far longer than that

But it wasn't reported in many cases and was handled by the school and the parents.

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Response to Tempest (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 02:26 PM

35. That was before we decided the only way to handle social problems was to criminalize them.

 

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 05:19 PM

41. So CRIMES like rape are mere SOCIAL PROBLEMS? WTF???? nt

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Response to alp227 (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 06:07 PM

49. This appears to be a case of statutory rape.

 

A case of teenage boys having sex with teenage girls. Yes, older teenage boys (17 and 18) with younger teenage girls (13), but still teenagers. If the boys had been 16, there would have been no crime. Does the boy magically transmute from horny teenager to society-threatening sex criminal by virtue of having had a birthday?

I realize we have to draw lines somewhere, but let's also realize those lines are necessarily arbitrary.

I can't claim to have followed the reporting exhaustively, but what I've read says the precise allegations are sealed. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any allegations of forceable rape. There seems to have been some talk of drunkenness. If the facts were a la Steubenville, that would be one thing, where the victim was so intoxicated she could not consent. I don't know that the facts are similar here.

Barring evidence of coercion or lack of ability to consent because of intoxication, I would dare to suggest that this might possibly be better handled outside the criminal justice system.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #49)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 10:17 AM

55. Wow, and if she was 12? No "criminalization" is okay either?

 

You're on a slippery slope, fella.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #55)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 12:47 PM

65. And if she were 14?

 

They were all teenagers. When we talk about criminalizing sex among teenagers, I think we're all on a slippery slope.

Back in the day, the girl's parents might have had a meeting with the boys' parents, and the parents would have laid down the law. Or the school.

Absent evidence of coercion or inability to consent because of intoxication, no, I don't think this should be a criminal affair.

We do have to draw lines somewhere, but we should recognize that they are necessarily arbitrary and reality may be a bit fuzzier.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #65)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 08:05 PM

73. so you have a one year issue with the "line" which - of course- cannot be "fuzzy"

 

and be meaningful at the same time.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:19 AM

9. Welcome to DU

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:32 AM

13. Have a nice nap?

 

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:23 PM

26. I smell zombies. nt

 

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:30 PM

28. 2008 was a good year to join DU

 

...and then hibernate.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:46 PM

31. No, just someone who didn't post much for a time

They freely give their real name, and did some posting back on DU2: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Zoonart

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:35 AM

15. Um....

Cue the porn protectors in 3...2...

Well, your argument is lack of parental supervision. It wouldn't appear that there's anything to protect on the porn front. So why are you expecting "porn protectors"?

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:54 AM

17. No evidence

 

The simple fact is that all see crimes are way down since the proliferation of Internet porn.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 05:44 PM

43. That claim is not backed by evidence.

When most rapes aren't reported, rapes on college are treated as 'code violations' and the very definition of sexual assault is watered down in some places, that claim is beyond dishonest. Popular, pro-porn propaganda is all it is.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 02:54 AM

54. Yes it is backed by evidence

 

And here it is:

The rise of the Internet in the mid-1990s made porn increasingly accessible to the point that today, just about everyone can watch people have sex damn-near any time of day, in every conceivable manner, in in every possible vareity.



Sex crimes against children: Down 53 percent between 1992 and 2006.
Abortion: The abortion rate has dropped by about 25 percent since 1993.
Teen pregnancy: In 2009, teen pregnancy hit its lowest rate in the 70 years that the federal government has been tracking the statistic.
Divorce: The U.S. divorce rate is at its lowest level since 1970.
Domestic violence: The rate of reported domestic violence in the U.S. dropped by more than half between 1993 and 2004.
Rape: The forcible rape rate in the U.S. has dropped from 41.1 per 100,000 people in 1990 to 28.7 in 2009. That latter figure is also an all-time low.

These numbers are overwhelming. What’s more, there are at least a couple of studies suggesting that the widespread availability of pornography is partially responsible for some of these trends, especially the drop in reported rapes.

http://www.theagitator.com/2011/04/07/sen-hatch-wants-more-porn-prosecutions/

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #54)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 11:10 AM

58. lol... D'Amato. Of course.

...

Enough about rapist stereotypes. What was the watershed moment in this decline in rapes according to this study?

Deep Throat's release in 1972. (The year after the first US rape crisis center opened.)

Yes, all those rapists were enraptured and temporarily taken off the streets. If this study is correct, each new porn delivery system has taken more and more of the would-be rapists time. Basically, social crimes are down today because would-be rapists can't pull themselves away from their Internet porn long enough to even think about getting their rape through actual human contact.

...

Mr. D'Amato again either doesn't know or doesn't care that Minnesota has been a national leader in the fight against rape, from raising awareness about rape to improving the criminal justice system's concern for how rape victims are treated. The acknowledgement of rape is up, but that might not mean that there is a corresponding increase in the number of rapes committed since estimates are based on reports to police and reports to surveys.

...

http://abyss2hope.blogspot.com/2006/08/porn-up-rape-down-or.html


There are many reasons why his claims are questionable at best. It's sad that people are still clinging to desperately to them. Speaks volumes.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #58)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 12:05 PM

61. So

 

Do you have any science behind your claims?

It is very clear that sex crimes of all kinds have gone way down since porn has been widespread. I have cited studies.

Do you have any position besides "that's not true"?

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #61)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 12:07 PM

62. You cited one study, and I posted just a FEW of the reasons why it's flimsier than rice paper.

Logic, use it.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #62)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 02:07 PM

68. You posted nothing

 

But opinions with no backing.

If you want to be like the creationists and just assert shit in the face of science, so be it.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #54)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 12:10 PM

63. Corelation does not mean causation

Automotive airbags also became plentiful during that time frame. Neither they nor porn has any credible link to causing a reduction in sex crimes.

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Response to One_Life_To_Give (Reply #63)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 02:08 PM

69. True, that correlation does not equal causation

 

But it's mighty peculiar that despite the dire warnings of the prudes, all sex crimes have plummeted since the widespread availability of porn.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #69)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 03:19 PM

70. And Highway speeds are up while traffic deaths are down.

Before 55 repealed
1994 Fatalities 40,716
1994 Death per 100million vehicle miles 1.73

After 55 repealed
2009 Fatalities 33,808
2009 Death per 100million vehicle miles 1.14

Sex crimes are down since we removed the separate Men's and Women's payscales for the same job.
Feminism has changed a number of things about how we view and interact with women. Viewing only one small part in isolation is no way to do an analysis. The cohort most likely to commit these crimes in 2013 has a very different life experience from those in 1965.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 12:07 PM

19. I see so porn only affects foot ball players in such a manor?

 

I hated the jocks in high school and I despise them now even more. They were/are bullies and insulting egomaniacs.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #19)


Response to L0oniX (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 07:56 PM

52. Only if they're

to the "manor" born


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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:30 PM

27. This isn't a new thing

Just the victims aren't so ashamed to come out now.


Nice try on the quick and easy solution though.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 02:42 PM

36. You blame internet porn rather than BAD PARENTING??

 

What proof do you have that internet porn has anything to do with these rapes? Good parenting has a way of inoculating kids from such influences and the resulting completely unacceptable behavior.

My nephew grew up with internet access and managed to never rape anyone. Now he's studying for his MPH. His parents have always done their job fabulously. That is becoming uncommon.

Children are possessions to brag about to far too many parents. They don't want to do the hard work of teaching their kids to be good citizens. They just want to HAVE children.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 05:57 PM

45. Yes and I'm not alone

I blame bad parenting also. But, yes, I believe that internet porn desensitizes humans (men and women) to their sexual partners. I believe that the exposure of young teens to porn before they have had any romantic sexual experience makes them robotic in their thoughts and deeds about the mechanics and not the soul of sex. I also think it makes young men believe that all young women will be receptive to their sexual advances based on the fictional depictions they have absorbed.

Just today, another parent has spoken out about this on another forum. I am not alone.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/28/1197669/-Spring-Breakers-DIY-sexualization

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 07:52 PM

51. NO NO NO!

High school football players were raping girls long before internet porn...The problem is football players are treated like gods & so they think & do get away with almost anything!! That is the problem not internet porn. Jeez!

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 12:03 PM

60. People used to marry off their children at 13 in this country like chattel.

I'm not objecting to your opinion of porn. But if anything, the age of freedom of information on the internet and less parental 'control' has done more for the rights of children. For one example, the case of the Steubenville rape would not have even been prosecuted 20 years ago. That was thanks to the internet. Plus it is now an extremely bad idea to sell one's daughter for land. It is even socially taboo to pressure them to marry within certain social/racial circles; a trend which has grown over the last 30 years.

I know it is popular to pine for "the good old days" on this site, but that doesn't mean the perception of the past is any accurate. Do you actually think rape is more common these days than in the past?

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:58 AM

7. It happened in the past

there just wasn't an internet and a 24/7 newscycle to broadcast the story worldwide back then.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:27 AM

12. Yep. And it wasn't just the high school jocks that were having sex with underage girls.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:09 AM

8. More like what's wrong with boys/men 16-25.

 

Testosterone combined with some really shitty beliefs and a sense of entitlement/invulnerability.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:13 PM

25. What do you expect in this sick culture?

We live in a world were there are people who would rather let food rot on trucks or trash bins than allow it to be used to feed hungry children, simply because they had the misfortune of being born to parents that did NOT win the genetic lottery and squeeze out of a third base vagina while being told they hit a triple.

We live in a world where CEOs and corporate boards scratch each others back to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars in raises, bonuses and outright hand-outs while gutting the jobs and lives of THOUSANDS of employees in the process through lay-offs, out-sourcing and use of foreign sweatshops or worse.

We live in a world where banksters crashed the economy, stole TRILLIONS in rescue funds and bailouts and left the unborn great grandchildren of today with the tab while simultaneously destroying lives by fraud, coercion and any other means necessary to ensure not ONE of them ever faces the consequences or goes before a jury, let alone to prison.

The fact that misguided teenage boys are behaving atrociously in this fucked up and hopeless "society" is only shocking if you're just starting to notice the massive graffiti mural on the wall...

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Response to Moostache (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:31 PM

29. Well said !!!

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Response to Moostache (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 06:04 PM

48. FYI

About $245 billion of the TARP money was pumped into 707 banks to help stabilize the financial system in 2008 and 2009.

Most of the money went to large banks and has been repaid, and that part of TARP -- called the Capital Purchase Program -- already has made a profit.

So far, the Treasury Department has collected about $268 billion from repayments, along with dividend payments and other income that came from the injections of money. Banks were required to pay a 5% dividend on the TARP money for the first five years, with the figure jumping to 9% after that.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/18/business/la-fi-mo-banks-tarp-bailout-treasury-20121218

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Response to Mosby (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 07:13 PM

50. If you choose to defend the banks, that's on your conscience...

The money loaned from TARP was just the tip of the iceberg - the no interest loans from the Fed discount window and the guaranteed profits they offered each other in the process of "rescuing" the banks is quite a different story than TARP.

TARP, by itself and in a vacuum, would not offend me nearly as much. Sadly, it did not happen in a vacuum and the mere fact that no one - not a single executive or even low level broker - was even CHARGED in the greatest swindle in human history is something I will never abide or countenance. If you feel otherwise, then so be it. Good luck with that...

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:21 AM

11. hero worship

as long as a culture wants killers of it's own, it will build a culture of violence and the worship of strength. thus soldiers lost to war will be remembered, and their offspring will be cared for.
such is the tool kit of war.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:11 PM

24. It's where the sociopaths hang out

Sociopathic students coached by a sociopathic teacher.

It's been that way as long as I can remember and I'm an old dude.

They're considered "potential community leaders" and "we can't let a little something like that wreck their careers".

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:58 PM

33. I think a lot of it has to do with the attitude of the coaches and principals.

I went to multiple high schools, because of my dad's job. It was amazing to me how different the football and cheerleader cultures were from one school to the next, and a lot of it seemed to be related to what the adults supposedly in charge were willing to overlook. The one school where athletes and cheerleaders weren't jerks was also the place where such people were expected to represent the school positively in all ways. If you were a jerk, you were either off the team or on the bench, and the kids knew it.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #33)

Sun Mar 31, 2013, 05:17 AM

76. I beleive you are correct.

I bet you could come up with a Top Ten Signs your school is run by jocksniffers in 15 min. or less. I might have some clues, but I only went to 1 high school (which was).

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:46 AM

2. this is an ongoing obscenity.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:50 AM

3. What is wrong with the upbringing of these jocks.

Last edited Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Peer pressure isn't enough to corrupt these children.

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Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 05:56 PM

44. Yes, it is more than peer pressure. nt

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Response to redqueen (Reply #44)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 06:01 PM

47. Clearly: Parents and society are to blame! Something must change. Now.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:57 AM

5. I hope some of the school officials

are also charged related to the bullying incidents.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 05:38 PM

42. Could happen, as the Ohio AG will convene a grand jury to pursue further charges

for potential accessories to the Steubenville HS rape i.e. those who witnessed and failed to report, the coaches who heard about the incident but failed to report, etc.

Additionally as I have posted before, the 18-year-old students charged face anywhere from 9 months to 20 years in prison per Connecticut law of 2nd-degree sexual assault. (see this in-depth local newspaper article for more info about the 18-year-olds charged for the rapes.) This 17-year-old boy will face charges of " second-degree assault and risk of injury to a minor." However, he's being tried in juvenile court, so he might be sentenced to just 1 or 2 years or until his 21st birthday, similarly to how the Steubenville rapists were sentenced.

From these two stories the two 18-y/o suspects are all charged with these crimes:
- 2nd degree sexual assault
- risk of injury to a minor with sexual contact
- risk of injury to a minor

Chapter 939, section 53, title 21 describes risk of injury to minor:

(a) Any person who (1) wilfully or unlawfully causes or permits any child under the age of sixteen years to be placed in such a situation that the life or limb of such child is endangered, the health of such child is likely to be injured or the morals of such child are likely to be impaired, or does any act likely to impair the health or morals of any such child, or (2) has contact with the intimate parts, as defined in section 53a-65, of a child under the age of sixteen years or subjects a child under sixteen years of age to contact with the intimate parts of such person, in a sexual and indecent manner likely to impair the health or morals of such child...shall be guilty of a class C felony for a violation of subdivision (1)...of this subsection and a class B felony for a violation of subdivision (2) of this subsection...


So if the adult suspects are convicted at least two of these charges and serve their sentences consecutively not concurrently, they could face anywhere from 1.5 to 40 years in state prison! in that regard CT general statute chapter 952, section 53a, title 37 says: "When a person is sentenced for two or more counts each constituting a separate offense, the court may order that the term of imprisonment for the second and subsequent counts be for a fixed number of years each. The court in such cases shall not set any minimum term of imprisonment except under the first count, and the fixed number of years imposed for the second and subsequent counts shall be added to the maximum term imposed by the court on the first count."

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:21 AM

10. There is so much money involved in high scool and college sports now

that those who stand to benefit from having a successful football or basketball team will do anything to protect their golden goose--i.e., their sports program, at least the parts that enable them to make money, the revenue sports.

Meanwhile, the jocks themselves are raised with both a huge sense of entitlement and arrogance and a skewed view of what masculinity is.

When the Spur Posse jerks became so notorious, many sociologists and psychologists commented on how our society's out of control "jock culture" contributed to the situation. Jocks, especially football players, are one of our versions of "warriors" in today's society, and since unlike real soldiers, today's successful athletes are the ones who get the "booty"--in the sense of treasure and also, punningly, in the sense of women--that used to be divided among warriors after a successful raid or conquest, those who belong to this "warrior" class also feel entitled to get those "rewards" for belonging to that admired class. If the women aren't delivered to them as their status makes them think they should be, then by George, they'll just go out and "capture" a few, just as warriors would in a successful raid.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:35 AM

14. There is not a lot of money in Torrington HS football

It's not like Texas where thousands of fans turn out on Friday nights to watch high school football games. From Torrington CT, they'd be lucky to produce a few kids a year that will play football in college at all, and mostly for Division 3 or 2 schools. For most of them, high school football will be the height of their athletic lives (like Al Bundy from Married with Children).

However, just the jock culture itself makes them more popular than the average student.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:42 AM

16. Coaches and administrators, even in small HS programs, tend

to benefit financially from a successful program, even if no one else does. Their compensation, even if relatively low compared to their peers in bigger school programs, will still tend to be greater than the average of similarly positioned people in less successful programs--and usually higher than average in general for their community. The money doesn't have to be huge to be a real benefit to local coaches and administrators, and of course, if they produce a "superstar" athlete, they might get to ride his coattails to even greater benefits.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:55 AM

18. I don't think it's money

 

I think it's just feelings of superiority in a system that creates the players as an upper class in the high school system.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 12:11 PM

20. Rape, guns and war. God bless Ammeddicca ...the gahdreat saatan!

 

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 12:32 PM

21. There is an issue that continues to be overlooked in these incidents.

For some reason, each time one of these incidents occur folks are quick to blame sports, which I consider more of an antecedent for the actual issue which never gets any attention. I didn't see any information on this in the current article which provides few details but the common thread between the highly publicized incident in Ohio and the similar incident that took place when I was in High school in 1985 and again in college at Kansas State Unviversity in 1991 was underage drinking. It's true birds of a feather flock together... to the same parties -- underage drinking occurs and bad things, including girls getting raped, happen. They drive home and kill folks on the road as well -- sometimes football players do that, no one talks about sports at that point. Underage drinking is and continues to be a problem that is indeed condoned by many parents in many communities and I would bet my next paycheck that the drinking, the location of the drinking and who is providing the alcohol is the major motivation behind the cover ups by adults that we continuously see when these things happen -- not the sports or the "sports money."

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Response to Blackjackdavey (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 02:19 PM

34. There's no doubt teenage drinking is behind many tragedies.

But some, perhaps many, "alleged" rapes involve no alcohol at all. There's no spontaneity involved. They were planned ahead of time. The Steubenville case may very well have been an act of revenge.

And the jock culture is very real. Even some former athletes say this is so. Pathetic attitudes lead to pathetic conduct.

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Response to radicalliberal (Reply #34)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 02:54 PM

39. I don't disagree with any of this

I am referring, however, specifically to these "gang" rape, mob mentality situations that happen sontaneously, perhaps even premeditatively when these kids get alcohol in them. What I meant above by "antecedent" is this: There is a "jock culture." But I don't think the jock culture code includes gang raping girls -- but it does include "let's get together, drink lots of beer and do stupid shit." The beer and setting is usually provided by parents or older siblings who share that mindset. If there was a reduction in opportunities for groups of children to gather behind closed doors with access to alcohol it wouldn't eliminate the odious "jock culture" but it would definitely reduce these incidents.

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Response to Blackjackdavey (Reply #39)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 06:00 PM

46. In Glen Ridge, they weren't jocks and they weren't drunk.

People are simplifying this to make it seem isolated to one area, or one subculture, but it isn't that simple.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 12:41 PM

22. 1st off

 

Where did this happen, was this random, of was this at a party, was there drinking, were the boys and girls drunk, passed out? I believe we need more information before blaming on internet porn...

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Response to rtracey (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:39 PM

30. Yep, it was at a party and there was definitely drinking.

The girl was passed out, think she was given drugs by the boys to cause this.

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Response to lark (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 02:43 PM

37. And there it is.

We rightfully spend a great deal of time talking about society's cavalier approach to guns but crickets where underage drinking is concerned.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 01:57 PM

32. And inevitably there is bullying and blaming of the victims

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 02:48 PM

38. It seems like it's usually gang rape. Why? Isn't one enough?

They have to act as a group?

The more, the merrier . . . the more, the greater the cruelty . . . the greater the humiliation . . .

And when the gang rape is over, re-victimization is next; and most sports columnists will ignore these cases. For example, none of the sports columnists of the Houston Chronicle have even mentioned Steubenville. Don't expect them to mention this case either. Hero worship and the image of school sports must be upheld at all costs. Victims be damned!

If I ever had any doubts of there being a rape culture in this country, they have now been erased completely by Steubenville and Torrington. I'm a 62-year-old man who is the proud father of two beautiful, compassionate, highly intelligent young women. They are not potential rape toys!

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Response to radicalliberal (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 03:35 PM

40. Rape is always wrong!

It seems like it's usually gang rape. Why? Isn't one enough?

They have to act as a group?

The more, the merrier . . . the more, the greater the cruelty . . . the greater the humiliation . . .








If I ever had any doubts of there being a rape culture in this country, they have now been erased completely by Steubenville and Torrington. I'm a 62-year-old man who is the proud father of two beautiful, compassionate, highly intelligent young women. They are not potential rape toys!




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Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #40)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 11:01 AM

57. I apologize for my first comments. I was speaking sarcastically.

I wasn't saying that rape by a single individual was less wrong than gang rape. I was mocking the rapists. I was saying they weren't brave enough to act alone, they could only act as a group. I was also trying to comment on their utter lack of conscience. I was very angry when I first read about this incident. People don't always think clearly when they get angry. That was true of me.

I have a friend who as a 17-year-old suffered a nervous breakdown and was incarcerated in a mental institution where he was raped by one of the other inmates, a strong man in his forties. My friend still has nightmares about it today at the age of 61. A single individual traumatized him for life.

So, again, I apologize for my first comments. Thanks for calling me out.

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Response to radicalliberal (Reply #57)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 11:12 AM

59. Seriously. I understood where you were coming from in the heat of anger.

If I had not said what I did, you may have gotten trounced on even worse.
I know that you were not condoning rape but your manner of stating your thoughts oh my.

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Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #59)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 01:21 PM

66. How true, how true . . .

One does have to be careful what one says in a forum post. This is not always the best form of communication. Well, a lot does depend upon the poster, I guess.

What's so ironic is that I'm extremely sensitive about this crime. I hate the way society treats rape victims. The bullying mentioned in this particular case is absolutely despicable. It's hard for me to read about this stuff. Talk about humanity at its worst.

I've known only two people personally whom I knew were rape victims. In both instances, when I was told about the rape or rapes, I broke out in tears. You hear about horrible things happening to people you don't know personally, then you hear about something horrible happening to someone you've known for years . . .

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Response to radicalliberal (Reply #66)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 01:36 PM

67. These are issues that I have been fighting for years even though

I am no longer employed as an investigator of child abuse. It hurt too much so I quit.
I was neglected as a child. Not horribly raped. But these are my issues to help defend those who cannot help themselves.

You are learning about DU.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2013, 11:03 PM

53. The seventies ushered in a new era of jockdum

 

Sports became a big money maker on TV and players pay checks went nuts . Porn came out of the closet and although it wasn't available as today it played a part in macho culture. This is all the past so here we are and what do we do ?

The non jocks of both sexes are almost ostracized in most schools and everyone wants to hang with the popular kids . We can blame Rap
we can blame rock we could even blame it on the Bossa Nova but the fault is ours for sitting in front of the tube watching what has become a huge cash cow of violent sexist and I will call it rape culture too .Then we say to kids do as I say not do as I do .

fuck it I hate jocks and the whole bullshit that is called culture . Now even bands act like jocks ---nerds act like jocks and jocks act like gorillas .

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 10:45 AM

56. Wow ...

Here we go again, trying to "make sense" of yet another rape. I find this rather astonishing. Our culture objectifies women, glorifies athletes, and depicts sex as the raison d'etre of our youth. Yet, when a young girl -- in this case, a child -- is raped, we're all "oh, my! Why did this happen?!?"

This reminds me of a quote from 'Cold Mountain':

Every piece of this is man's bullshit. They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say 'Shit, it's raining!'

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Response to chervilant (Reply #56)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 12:25 PM

64. Wow..

... so long as you acknowledge that WOMEN glorify athletes as much as anyone (ever see a jock without a girl?) I have no problem with your polemic.

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Response to sendero (Reply #64)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 05:05 PM

71. All of us,

regardless of gender, are deeply wounded by patriarchy.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #71)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 05:38 PM

72. I don't think ..

... you are getting what I am saying but I really don't feel like arguing so good luck.

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Response to sendero (Reply #72)

Sat Mar 30, 2013, 10:35 AM

74. Arguing?

I wasn't aware that our exchange constitutes an argument.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2013, 04:57 AM

75. We'll see if this turns into another Stubenville

It looks like this school is taking it a lot more seriously then Stubenville HS did.

As for the cause of this, I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet.

There are plenty of problems though including parents simply not monitoring their kids behavior, drinking and drugs. Again I don't know whether any of these were involved, but they will eventually come out.

Some seem to be placing the blame squarely on porn or internet porn. First off, porn has been around quite awhile. I remember when I was a teen a friend showing me a porn magazine. While porn is more available via the internet, I don't for a second believe it is the primary nor sole problem. There seems to be some far fetched claims that if you look at porn you must rape people. If that were the case every town would be Stubenville.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2013, 05:36 AM

77. disgusting

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