Stockholm Suburbs Beset by more Riots

[Quantess]

Source: online WSJ

STOCKHOLM—Cars and buildings were smoldering early Wednesday after a third-straight night of rioting around Sweden's capital, in what has become the country's worst outbreak of civil unrest in years.

Eight people were arrested overnight, bringing the total since the violence began Sunday to 15, said Kjell Lindgren, press officer at the Swedish Police. He said at least five people were being held on charges, and that more arrests were likely after video shot at the scene was reviewed.

Disturbances were reported in six areas as the violence spread around Stockholm. More than a dozen people torched cars, set a couple of buildings on fire and smashed windows at a police station in the Jakobsberg area, about 15 kilometers (9 miles) north of the city center.

Police characterized the night as calmer, however, saying there were fewer instances of rioters throwing rocks at police and firefighters. No serious injuries were reported.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324659404578498363658678322.html

[defacto7]

1. Since the article isn't visable

What are they protesting? Curious.

[mwrguy]

2. Inequality

and lack of opportunity.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. Well, who wouldn't want to hire such enthusiastic, young go-getters?

[clarice]

26. lol. good one. nt

[Quantess]

3. Here's the rest of the article:

Demonstrators and community activists have attributed the rioting to anger over the May 13 fatal shooting by police of a 69-year-old man who police said had been brandishing a large knife or machete.

The man was shot inside his apartment in Husby, a poor suburb of about 11,000 people, mostly immigrants and refugees from Turkey, Lebanon, Syria and Somalia. Police didn't release his name or nationality.

Swedish police say they have launched an internal investigation into the case. But some demonstrators and local residents said they are frustrated at seeing police use what they consider to be excessive force in the deprived suburbs with seeming impunity.

"If police had shot someone in the city, they wouldn't have gotten away this easily," said one young Husby resident who declined to give his real name.

Another Husby resident said Tuesday night that while the shooting last week may have been a catalyst, tension had been building in the poor communities outside the capital for a long time.

Though small in scale, riots have erupted outside Swedish cities periodically in recent years, with tension between police and youths.

Megafonen, a community group that represents the interests of minorities in the Stockholm area, has lodged multiple complaints about substandard schools, unemployment and "structural racism."

Locals spoke of frustration over the lack of jobs—Husby has among the highest rates of youth unemployment—people neither working nor studying—in Sweden, at about 20%. Costs of living are also rising as the need to renovate the aging housing projects has driven up rents.

Akar Karim, 22 years old, who works as a student assistant at a nearby school, also stressed that after school, a lot of young people have little to do.

"They do nothing, just sit around on benches", he said. Many local parents don't have the money to enable their kids to partake in the kind of activities other Swedish youths do.

On Tuesday, Sweden's Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt said that he was confident that Husby residents would be able to work through the tension. But he warned that more rioting may take place before the situation settled down.

Some residents predicted an increase in violence Wednesday night as some youth believe police will have their resources spread thin because of a soccer game at a nearby stadium.

Although there have been many arrests and property has been damaged, no fatalities have been reported in relation to the rioting.

[MADem]

5. These are, despite the careful language, race riots.

The Swedes don't want to admit it, but they've got a problem, and they've got ghettos of angry and disaffected minorities on the outskirts of Stockholm. Unemployment is up, opportunity is down, welfare is being limited, and resentment against police treatment of minorities is growing. It's a recipe for trouble.

From REUTERS: http://news.yahoo.com/stockholm-riots-challenge-image-happy-generous-state-234811107.html

Stockholm riots challenge image of happy, generous state

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Hundreds of youth have torched cars and attacked police in four nights of riots in immigrant suburbs of Sweden's capital, shocking a country that dodged the worst of the financial crisis but failed to solve youth unemployment and resentment among asylum seekers.
Violence spread from the North to the South of the city on Wednesday as groups of youth pushed through Stockholm's suburbs casting stones, breaking windows and setting cars alight. Police in the southern Swedish city of Malmo said two cars had been set ablaze.
Local media said a police station office was set on fire in the southern suburb of Rågsved, where several people were also detained. No one was hurt and the fire was quickly put out.

...."We see a society that is becoming increasingly divided and where the gaps, both socially and economically, are becoming larger," said Rami Al-khamisi, co-founder of Megafonen, a group that works for social change in the suburbs.
"And the people out here are being hit the hardest ... We have institutional racism."

...Out of a total 103,000 immigrants last year, 43,900 were asylum seekers, almost 50 percent up from 2011. Nearly half of these were refugees from fighting in Syria, Afghanistan or Somalia, and will get at least temporary residency....Policing in Stockholm has already been the focus of controversy this year, with allegations that police were picking out darker-skinned immigrants for identity checks in subway trains.

[Quantess]

6. That title...

I don't know how anybody from an english speaking nation can say Sweden isn't "generous" in terms of welfare, opportunities to learn the language, and just in terms of getting asylum... Sweden takes in more asylum seekers than the USA, per capita --about 10 times more!

The problem is the poor integration, and lack of jobs for immigrants, especially young immigrants with middle eastern sounding names.

[MADem]

7. They certainly are generous in absolute terms, but lately they've become less generous.

And they're getting resentful of all these "freeloaders," it would seem, if the rise of anti-immigrant political stances are any indication.

They'd shit if they had to deal with repercussions from 'benefits' and unemployment that are standard in USA, to say nothing of a structure in countries that are less 'generous' as well.

After decades of practicing the "Swedish model" of generous welfare benefits, Stockholm has been reducing the role of the state since the 1990s, spurring the fastest growth in inequality of any advanced OECD economy.
While average living standards are still among the highest in Europe, successive governments have failed to substantially reduce long-term youth unemployment and poverty, which have affected immigrant communities worst.

Some 15 percent of the population are foreign-born, and unemployment among these stands at 16 percent, compared with 6 percent for native Swedes, according to OECD data.
Youth unemployment in Husby, at 6 percent, is twice the overall average across the capital.
The left-leaning tabloid Aftonbladet said the riots represented a "gigantic failure" of government policies, which had underpinned the rise of ghettos in the suburbs.

As unemployment has grown, the anti-immigrant Sweden Democrats party has risen to third in polls ahead of a general election due next year, reflecting many voters' worries that immigrants may be partly to blame.

http://news.yahoo.com/stockholm-riots-challenge-image-happy-generous-state-234811107.html

[fasttense]

8. Yes and it is NOT the absolute amount of welfare or food stamps

that cause the poor minority communities to riot. It's all about expectations. If you have been getting something and expect to get some very generous welfare benefits and then they are taken away, well it would make you angry. You would probably get even more angry when you find out you can not get a job and take care of your family like you expected. You would get even more angry if you find people see you as inferior and think you are somehow less because you can't get a job. And then to make matters worse the police treat you and your loved ones and friends like hardened criminals when you have done absolutely nothing wrong.

See here in the US we are all so very carefully taught that if you fail in this corrupt and broken capitalist economy it is your own damn fault. It's not the system's fault if you can't find a job. It's your fault because you failed to polish up the resume, or failed to finish college or high school. It's your fault that there are absolutely no jobs available to you because the few elite capitalist have taken the jobs to other countries (but still sell their crap in your country). It's your fault education cost so much that you can't afford it because the government has taken away support for colleges. See, all you have to do is find just the right field of work at just the right time, be born to uber rich parents, be willing to spend all your waking hours and some of your sleeping hours working for a pittance or be very, very lucky. We Americans are all taught it is our own fault that a corrupted and broken capitalist system does not work for us.

So... we are less likely to riot because our expectations are so low. Not so much the people in Sweden.

[MADem]

9. Well, that's a rather simple and neat packet--but there's more to it than that.

The native Swedish population is very homogeneous. Anyone who is not Swedish is easily identified as an outsider. American society, OTOH, is quite varied--an American can look like anyone.

The role of race/ethnicity, coupled with economic pressures and police maltreatment in this imbroglio cannot be understated. It's what's driving this situation. If these people were native born Swedes in the same economic circumstances we wouldn't be seeing these riots.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. If they were as homogeneous and unwelcoming as you submit

why does their elected government set such policies?

Serious question.

[MADem]

20. They aren't cruel or unkind. But they do put these "others" in de-facto ghettos.

If these populations were integrated into the society, instead of being shoved off in separate, segregated neighborhoods, perhaps there would be less difficulty.

This is not good:

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. Integration is a two-way street.

I would be reluctant to lay the blame exclusively at the feet of the feet of the welcoming nation.

[MADem]

28. It's not a two way street when you can't afford to integrate, when

all the services and apartments with affordable rents and people who are willing to rent to you are all in one area; when the bus that goes to your job runs through that area; etc.

It's not a question of "lay(ing) the blame exclusively at the feet of the feet of the welcoming nation" (two sets of feet, there!) but it is a fact that the attitude is that the Swedes want to be compassionate, but they don't want to be compassionate in their individual, personal, neighborhoods and back yards, necessarily.

When stuff-- like jobs and social services-- gets scarce, too, people tend to get territorial. It's easy to be generous when you have plenty; when the larder gets a bit bare, you feed your kids before you feed the neighbor's.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

32. I find it hard to justify/excuse/apologize for riots

based on a host nation failing some sort of compassion test.

[MADem]

33. Who's justifying, excusing, or apologizing for RIOTS?

I am simply articulating the facts on the ground, there -- these people are in a better situation, physically, but they may not be in a better situation, psychologically.

No one is "praising" the rioters, or excoriating the Swedes. This is an unfortunate situation, chock full of no winners on either side, and a number of dynamic events fed into the creation of it. It happened, there are reasons it happened, and that's all there is to it.

It is what it is...nothing more, nothing less.

[jessie04]

34. Exactly...i agree ....they are victims.

"The role of race/ethnicity, coupled with economic pressures and police maltreatment in this imbroglio cannot be understated. It's what's driving this situation. If these people were native born Swedes in the same economic circumstances we wouldn't be seeing these riots."


They want Sweden to allow Sharia law and to respect their culture and religion.

It almost doesn't matter....it's really just a matter of time before,as some people think, Sweden will be an Islamic state. Not my wish but could happen.

[MADem]

35. If the place becomes less hospitable, they will either assimilate or depart, more likely.

Particularly if the services continue to decline--as I said elsewhere in this thread, even charitable people will feed their OWN kids first, if the larder is getting bare.

There is a fiction popular in America (amongst people who don't travel much, I suspect) that Europe is "so much more tolerant" than USA. The truth is that Europe can get really ugly, nasty and mean--they "tolerate" so long as minorities are in the Very Distinct Minority--to the point of being rarities. When those minorities start to achieve critical mass, and the political clout that goes with it, the pushback can be very nasty indeed.

In Europe, they have (usually third, but not without clout) parties that are very xenophobic and downright racist--some of the invective you hear coming from these people make the Tea Party's spittle-filled rants look like, well, polite conversation at a tea party! The English Defence League in UK are a right bunch of hatemongers, the Front National headed up by Marine Le Pen in France can really sling some vicious shit, the anti-Muslim Lega Nord in Italy pull no punches, the mis-named Freedom Party in Austria are like heirs to Hitler, and so forth. And these assclowns aren't hiding in the shadows, either--they're out there, on TV, running in elections, getting people all fired up and pissed off--in fact, the reason that France now has a liberal, pro-equality, touchy-feely guy at the helm right now isn't because FRANCE rose up and declared that they truly wanted him, it's because the Le Pen crew of meanass racists peeled off a sufficiency of the vote on the right, mandating a runoff election which Hollande won by a point or two. Take them out of the picture, and Sarkozy and Carla B. might still be parading on the political stage in France.

[jessie04]

36. ASsimilate or depart ? Neither.

I don't see a whole lot of "self deportation" going on.

And I doubt they will assimilate ...nope.

I think the future for Sweden will be a lot different than it is now.

[MADem]

37. Time will tell. nt

[KamaAina]

39. The Lega Nord used to be bigoted against southern Italians!

They tapped into resentment in wealthier northern Italy against their poorer cousins south of Rome. Apparently that wasn't good enough, so they've jumped on the Islamophobia bandwagon.

[MADem]

42. Yes indeed--they sneered at anyone below the "red sauce line!!!"

My preference was always the poorer south--sure, you had to watch your shit more, but it was more vibrant a place to live, IMO.

A lot of southerners who can't get work go north to Milan and elsewhere to be exploited; and also mocked for their accents and ways. Americans sometimes think that they're the only ones who make fun of their own people for their regional differences, but the light ribbing the south gets here pales in comparison to some of those angry and noxious Milanese handing out some scorn to a Napolitan crew!

[Bacchus4.0]

19. do you think they are entitled to those generous benefits?

If Sweden's is not meeting these people's expectations and they act in this manner maybe Sweden should look into changing their asylum policy rather than their welfare policy.

[MADem]

4. This is some serious shit happening, here:

Published on May 23, 2013
Riots gripped Stockholm's suburbs for a third night after the fatal shooting of a 69-year-old man by police last week. Much of the tension has been attributed to the alleged poor treatment of ethnic minorities in Sweden's biggest city.

[marshall]

10. BBC is reporting that the riots are a reaction by the Muslim community to aolice shooting

That occurred three days ago. Of course they could just be in sense looking for a YouTube video to blame it on, something to put it in a context they can understand.

[jessie04]

11. This is terrible.

Otoh, can anyone be that shocked given the lives these people have?

[Quantess]

12. Well actually it IS pretty shocking that some people

choose to set fire to cars, throw rocks at police and firefighters, vandalize shopping centers, police stations, etc.

Behaving this way in a country that has taken you or your parents in as refugees and given you a new chance in a safer environment, regardless of whether you can find a job or not, is... well, it's not admirable.

[jessie04]

13. They come to Sweden looking for a new life.

They live in horrible conditions , don't get much money from the state and are always under scrutiny by the police.

[MADem]

29. They don't live in "horrible conditions." The conditions they live in are better

by far than their home nations, in terms of basic utilities, social services, housing, personal safety, food quality, you name it. There are issues of police harassment for some, and there are job shortages (not as dire as USA, though) and the path to upward mobility is blocked by language barriers and access to higher education, and, let's be clear, a bit of vestigial racism and/or ethnic/religious bias.

[greiner3]

14. "...that some people View profile choose..."

So, a Republican talking point as to why there are poor people in this country is good fodder for YOUR argument?

Me thinks a good DUer such as you may want to consider your argument.

Just saying.

[Quantess]

16. I don't understand your comment. (no text)

[leftynyc]

15. I agree with you

I'm just shaking my head at those who want to defend the rioters. I'd like to know exactly what is owed to the rioters (other than a jail cell).

[happyslug]

21. Woundn't these people accept the economic role society has given them?

Last edited Thu May 23, 2013, 12:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I am being Sarcastic but the view of most Western Economists is that the real poor are a pool of people that the economy can draw from at times of maximum expansion. Thus the Expansion can occur, without excessive wage inflation. That is the purpose of most immigrants, as economic wage fillers. Without them, at times of maximum expansion labor will demand higher pay. Labor will either go on Strike for higher pay (and firing them and replacing them is NOT an option due to the fact they is no one to replace the Strikers) OR just quit and find work elsewhere, where the employer is willing to pay higher wages.

This demand for higher wages can be avoided if you have a pool of workers to pull from at such times. European Countries opt for the pool to be these immigrants from the Middle East (Turkey is a huge draw) while the US has long used African-Americas in this role (And are now using Latinos).

This was well known by the 1800, Karl Marx even gives them a name, the Lumpen-proletariat. These "Lowest of the Low" are seen as economic gap fillers, fills in when you have a labor shortage, and thus keep wages low, but among the first fired when layoffs are called for, for employers prefer other workers. Marx points out this makes this group ready, able and willing to be used against any working class revolution for they are cheap to buy (Jay Gould's famous comment "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." reflects the ability of this group to be so purchased).

Jay Gould, (1836-1892):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Gould

The Marxist of the 1800s saw the various mercenary armies of that time period being filled with this type of people (and replaced by Working Class person as larger armies were needed and the draft had to be instituted, Universal Military Service Armies are noted for their unreliability in suppressing peasant or workers revolts, for such Universal Service Armies are made up of members of the Working Class not the Lumpen-proletariat. thus most Marxist advocate Universal Military Service as oppose to "Volunteers&quot . Thus the push to permit illegal Latinos to enlist into the US Military is scary.

Side note: This unreliability of Universal Service Armies when it comes to internal unrest is well known, thus Stalin depended on his Secret Police not the Soviet Army to suppress revolts, Hitler dependent on the SS and the Gestapo not the German Army for Internal suppression (as oppose to suppressing resistance in conquered countries, Latin America is noted for using such "Volunteer" armies, through at times filling in the ranks with Draftees. but the Draftees are just rank fillers, most of the Latin American Armies are filled with "Volunteers&quot . When Romania over threw its Communist Government, the Secret Police tried to keep a lid on the Revolt, but the Army intervened on the Side of the Revolt and crushed the Police and the Government. Classic case of a Universal Military Service Army versus a "Volunteer" type service.

Any way back to Western Economists. The view of most Western Economists is that the real poor are a pool of people that the economy can draw from at times of maximum expansion. Thus the Expansion can occur, without excessive wage inflation. That is the role these immigrants are to fill, and given that the world wide economy is in the dumper, so are these lowest of the low.

Another name for people in this economic class is the "Underclass":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underclass

[marshall]

23. That's why they moved to Stockholm

Leaving that old economic role behind and looking for the Swedish dream.

[happyslug]

27. But economic role is what the Swedes intended for these people

They are economic "fill ins" to be forgotten till needed.

[Quantess]

30. I'm not seeing a case for that.

There is no "cheap labor" in Sweden. Not at this time, anyway. The labor laws are stringent and the minimum wage is high.
There is also hardly any Swedish military to speak of.

I'm more inclined to believe the immigration policy, which welcomes those who come from really horrible situations in their home lands, is vanity for Sweden's Image. See? Look How Benevolent We Are!

But in reality the immigration situation seems more frustrating and less successful than it should be, for everyone involved. The politicians are getting blamed for inviting in thousands of refugees, while knowing full well that there aren't enough jobs or housing for them. Plus, integration goes pretty poorly, and the immigrants end up living in segregated ghettoes, thereby not feeling as much pressure to learn the language.

Anyway, I don't think your scenario fits. But over time, you may possibly be proven right.

[happyslug]

38. My point is WHY Sweden left these immigrants in the first place.

Yes, Sweden is more liberal then the US in granting asylum, but most of these immigrants went to Sweden for ECONOMIC reasons. Historically people immigrant to where they have friends or relatives. One person goes, then you have 10 of his friends or relatives, then comes the other friends and relatives of these friends and relatives. This can be seen in the US, where you see concentration of people from different lands, in certain sections (Minnesota was were a lot of Norwegians move to in the 1800s, Germans in Central Texas about the same time period, Pennsylvania always had a huge German population. With Industrialization you see concentration of ethnic groups in certain neighborhoods, The South-side of Pittsburgh you see this extensively, Poles around the Polish Church, Ukrainians around the Unite or Orthodox Churches, Germans around the German Church etc. Some of their Children, Grandchildren and other descendants may move elsewhere, but these concentrations continued for decades after the group had moved into an area (For example, when African Americans started to come to Pittsburgh, they went to areas where they were other African Americans, slowly, starting in the 1920s, replacing the Jews who had been the dominate minority in Pittsburgh Hill District).

I suspect a similar situation with these immigrants from the Middle East (Mostly Turkey). They came for relatives and.or friends told then jobs were available. The problem is most employers prefer native Swedes, for employers believe that native Swedes know the language and the custom of Sweden better then these immigrants (Whether it is true that native Swedes know more of their Country then the immigrants is unimportant, what is important is the BELIEF that they do).

This can be seen in WHO is immigrating to Sweden, Finland is the #1 source of immigrants, the Countries that made up Iraq is #2, Bosnia is #3, the Former Yugoslavia is #4, Iran is # 5, Poland #6, Germany #7, Denmark #8, Turkey #9 and the 10th is Norway. Most of these countries are NOT countries people FEAR for their lives if they are returned (I will concede Iran and Iraq as countries one may fear to return, but Finland, Germany, Denmark, Poland, and Norway?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden#Country_of_origin_for_persons_born_abroad

Sorry, looks like the pattern in Sweden is following the historical pattern of any immigration, people go where they have friends and relatives, who had told them jobs were available in those places people migrant to.

[jessie04]

24. These people come to Sweden ..

and don't get a break.

Given the changing demographics, some people will believe it won't be long oefore Sweden becomes an Islamic state. That's not a secret.

[toby jo]

25. If someone was shot, and it appears too much force was likely used in a country that

isn't known for that (us!), it's gonna send shock waves around.

Europe has to handle alot of immigration issues, the people everywhere probably have a healthier psychology about it that we do over here.

Imagine one day that whole continent being at peace. It'll happen one day, from sea to sea and north to south. People will pull together and have the whole thing relatively worked out. Probably before we do over here.

[Blue Hen Buckeye]

31. If they just had Swedes in Sweeden.

You would not be reading about any of this.

[unreadierLizard]

40. This all comes down to the fact the immigrants

didn't get what they wanted. They come over to Sweeden and other prosperous countries, put their hands out and get help to start a better life - and then complain that they aren't getting enough, they aren't allowed to beat their wives or put burqas on female family members and that the police won't enforce Sharia Law.

Call this what you will, but this goes down to the fact radical Islam wants their people to come first. You don't move to a country and demand they change their laws to suit you. That's essentially what these people want - they want the right to make Sweeden a third-world shithole just because Allah said so.

[jessie04]

43. You've got to look deeper.

These poor people come looking for a better life and then are treated like garbage. They are forced to live in apartheid like conditions , hassled by the police and want to be under sharia law.

I do agree with you- sweden might very well become the first European country to become Islamic .

[Blue_Tires]

41. iirc, wasn't Sweden one of the first countries to start accepting thousands

of refugee Iraqi citizens after their country was reduced to rubble? Didn't Sweden do it because they were part of our "coalition?" or is my memory off?

I wonder how many are in that crowd 10+ years later...