Kaitlyn Hunt refuses plea deal in underage same-sex case

[ScreamingMeemie]

Source: WPTV.COM Local NBC

SEBASTIAN, Fla. - Kaitlyn Hunt has refused a plea deal from the state attorney. She was charged earlier this year with lewd and lascivious battery on a minor, after she admitted to having a same-sex relationship with a 14-year-old girl.

If she chose to accept the offer she would be labeled a sexual offender and agree to two years house arrest.

She now faces a court hearing next month.

Kaitlyn's attorney Julia Graves, believes Kaitlyn is being treated unfairly. She cited a 2011 case in which an 18-year-old male, a Vero Beach High School student, had sexual intercourse with a 15-year-old female. In that case, the 18-year-old male was charged with lewd and lascivious battery, but the charge was dropped down to a misdemeanor battery case.



Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/Copy_of_state-attorneys-deadline-looms-for-18-year-old-kaitlyn-hunts-decision-on-plea-deal

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. She should get the same deal he got.

But that's it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. That's basically what they asked for in the beginning.

They've offered to move Kate out of state, etc. but this DA is adamant.

[Dreamer Tatum]

3. Unless there are worse facts brought to bear

It seems like she is being persecuted somehow.

But she shouldn't get away scot-free, in any case.

[pnwmom]

6. She shouldn't have been charged with anything.

The only evidence I've heard of is a recorded conversation in which they'd discussed previous kissing.

[shawn703]

10. She admitted to the sexual nature of the relationship under questioning

Amazing that the daughter of a former police officer was never told what to do in that situation.

[pnwmom]

19. I can't find any link to the actual claim against her, other than about kissing.

Do you have a link to the affidavit, by any chance?

"Petting" for example, is of a "sexual nature," but I've never heard of a male high school student being charged with battery for mutual petting.

[shawn703]

22. Link

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/21/us/hunt-arrest-affidavit.html

[bananas]

23. digita and oral sex

From the affadavit:

"put their fingers inside of each other's vaginas, put their mouths on each other's vaginas, and both of them used a vibrator on each other to insert it in each other's vaginas"

[pnwmom]

25. Good grief. Apparently no one had an attorney to tell them not to talk! n/t

[FreeState]

27. I dont see anal sex on the affidavit n/t

[bananas]

30. You're right, I'll edit that post.

I read it too quickly.

[magical thyme]

63. maybe. maybe not.

It depends on some details of the cases. Was his case a first offense? Or did he persist after being warned away?

Because Kate was caught and punished by her coach. She was asked repeatedly to leave the victim alone. She ignored the punishment and those requests, and continued the relationship. Bringing the victim to her home overnight, without the parent's knowledge or permission, is what got the police involved.

Had she not taken that last step, she would not be facing any charges. And I suspect that stubborn refusal to back off the relationship, not to mention her parent's smear campaign against the victim's parents, is not helping her in any way.

As far as the parents offering to move out of state, too late. I wouldn't believe a word they said after the facebook smear campaign and the disingenuous petition that changes the ages of the accused and the victim. I've seen people read that and think they were both minors with just 2 years between them, as opposed to an adult and a minor 4 years apart.

[SCVDem]

4. Could we define "Same Sex Relationship"?

I'm married for 15 years and I don't have sex, , so what makes people assume these kids were doing anything besides being best friends.

Is holding hands or kissing now defined as illicit sex?

They are both in high school.

Back off prosecutor!

NOTE: Then the 'system' wonders why the rate of teen suicides is so high. Stop pushing these kids before its too late! Sometimes age is just a number.

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. They released the affidavit, which is humiliating for both girls involved.

This is how we are able to know what went on. I read it once, with tears in my eyes. It was kids.

[RiverNoord]

8. It's a tough case

I'm a lawyer and most prosecutors I know hate these types of cases (of course, usually they are older boys/younger girls). If the families are supportive of the relationship and it's apparent that it's not just a brief fling, most will decline to prosecute.

The age difference matters, though, and 18/14 is a big gap. Two year age differences are generally considered tolerable, but, the thing is, in this case a young adult had sex with a 14 year-old. The gender issue is irrelevant legally and most prosecutors in most states would have a very difficult time declining to proceed with such an age difference.

Prosecutors have obligations under the law, and while they certainly have some discretion, it's not limitless. I would likely have a hard time letting an 18/14 case drop, and I'm a defense attorney...

[SCVDem]

11. But 17/14 was okay? nt

[happyslug]

20. I listed the Florida Law on another thread, 18 and 16 are the ages of importance in this case.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=489910

Fla. Stat. § 800.04 (2012)

§ 800.04. Lewd or lascivious offenses committed upon or in the presence of persons less than 16 years of age

(1) Definitions. --As used in this section:

(a) "Sexual activity" means the oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another or the anal or vaginal penetration of another by any other object; however, sexual activity does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose.

(b) "Consent" means intelligent, knowing, and voluntary consent, and does not include submission by coercion.

(c) "Coercion" means the use of exploitation, bribes, threats of force, or intimidation to gain cooperation or compliance.

(d) "Victim" means a person upon whom an offense described in this section was committed or attempted or a person who has reported a violation of this section to a law enforcement officer.

(2) Prohibited defenses. --Neither the victim's lack of chastity nor the victim's consent is a defense to the crimes proscribed by this section.

(3) Ignorance or belief of victim's age. --The perpetrator's ignorance of the victim's age, the victim's misrepresentation of his or her age, or the perpetrator's bona fide belief of the victim's age cannot be raised as a defense in a prosecution under this section.

(4) Lewd or lascivious battery. --A person who:

(a) Engages in sexual activity with a person 12 years of age or older but less than 16 years of age; or

(b) Encourages, forces, or entices any person less than 16 years of age to engage in sadomasochistic abuse, sexual bestiality, prostitution, or any other act involving sexual activity commits lewd or lascivious battery, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(5) Lewd or lascivious molestation.

(a) A person who intentionally touches in a lewd or lascivious manner the breasts, genitals, genital area, or buttocks, or the clothing covering them, of a person less than 16 years of age, or forces or entices a person under 16 years of age to so touch the perpetrator, commits lewd or lascivious molestation.

(b) An offender 18 years of age or older who commits lewd or lascivious molestation against a victim less than 12 years of age commits a life felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082(3)(a)4.

(c) 1. An offender less than 18 years of age who commits lewd or lascivious molestation against a victim less than 12 years of age; or

2. An offender 18 years of age or older who commits lewd or lascivious molestation against a victim 12 years of age or older but less than 16 years of age commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(d) An offender less than 18 years of age who commits lewd or lascivious molestation against a victim 12 years of age or older but less than 16 years of age commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(6) Lewd or lascivious conduct.

(a) A person who:

1. Intentionally touches a person under 16 years of age in a lewd or lascivious manner; or

2. Solicits a person under 16 years of age to commit a lewd or lascivious act commits lewd or lascivious conduct.

(b) An offender 18 years of age or older who commits lewd or lascivious conduct commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) An offender less than 18 years of age who commits lewd or lascivious conduct commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(7) Lewd or lascivious exhibition.

(a) A person who:

1. Intentionally masturbates;

2. Intentionally exposes the genitals in a lewd or lascivious manner; or

3. Intentionally commits any other sexual act that does not involve actual physical or sexual contact with the victim, including, but not limited to, sadomasochistic abuse, sexual bestiality, or the simulation of any act involving sexual activity in the presence of a victim who is less than 16 years of age, commits lewd or lascivious exhibition.

(b) An offender 18 years of age or older who commits a lewd or lascivious exhibition commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) An offender less than 18 years of age who commits a lewd or lascivious exhibition commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(8) Exception. --A mother's breastfeeding of her baby does not under any circumstance constitute a violation of this section.

[DrDan]

26. 2nd degree felony - seems pretty clear

[AnalystInParadise]

76. Yes

In the eyes of society, 17 is still a child, 18 is considered an adult. 18 is the magic number in American society, can enter into contracts on your own, can vote, can buy tobacco, can enlist yourself in the military (at 17 needs a parent or guardians signature). So yes 17/14 is easier to tolerate because in our society a 17 year old is still a child. 18 is an adult. And an adult with a child is a crime.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

18. Prosecutors don't have limitless discretion with respect to not prosecuting a case?

Sure they do.

The most notorious example is having an openly-admitted war criminal go on TV, admit that he was in the chain of command who approvde water torture, and then have the top prosecutor in the country not prosecute him.

You could have a hard time letting an 18/14 case drop, but that is based upon your conscience. I suggest that there is not a single example that you can point to in support of your claim that prosecutors don't have limitless discretion for not prosecuting cases. Prosecutors are above the law if they simply choose to not prosecute a case. They can't be forced to do so. If you have an example to the contrary, where is it?

[RiverNoord]

29. Of course they don't

if they want to keep their jobs. I mean, the job description is "Prosecutor." And most prosecutors are Assistant District Attorneys, which means they have to answer to a boss, who then answers to the state's Attorney General.

Comparing a statutory rape charge to post 9/11 torture/war crimes ostensibly committed by the President or Vice President is not helpful - there really is no parallel. Once the Attorney General of the United States decides not to pursue a federal matter, and is supported in this decision by the President, there is no higher federal authority that can possibly pursue charges.

Finally, every prosecutor I know has had to file charges that he/she really didn't feel good about, because it's the fundamental basis of the job of a prosecutor in our justice system. Not only does failing to file charges on a case that is provable beyond a reasonable doubt basically compromise your job, it doesn't make you many friends in the ranks of police who are out there bringing the evidence in. You have a very, very limited supply of 'passes' like that as a prosecutor.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

31. 1) You are mistaken if you believe that there is a "statutory rape" charge at issue. The 18-year-old

is not capable of rape or statutory rape. Whatever the charge is, she is not being charged with that.

2) You are mistaken if you believe that "most prosecutors are Assistant District Attorneys, which means they have to answer to a boss, who then answers to the state's Attorney General." The "boss," i.e. the prosecutor does not answer to the state's Attorney General. If you can find a single State in which the state Attorney General is the boss or superior to a local prosecutor, please identify the State and the authority for such hierarchy, if any. It doesn't work that way. The local prosecutors are independent of the States' Attorney Generals.

3) You are mistaken if you believe that there was a comparison between "a statutory rape charge" and "post 9/11 torture/war crimes." The entire discussion was focused upon the prosecutorial discretion vested in a prosecutor, and no comparison whatsoever was made between the two types of crimes.

4) You are mistaken if you believe that you have a special expertise and a wide experience of knowing a great many prosecutors. If you knew of a since case that a prosecutor had been obligated to pursue, you would have referred to that instead of invoking the fallacy of appealing to authority. You say, "every prosecutor I know has had to file charges that he/she really didn't feel good about, ..." Every prosecutor you know? Your claim that you know a great many prosecutors, and that you know that they've had to file charges in cases in which they did not feel good about, isn't credible.

[RiverNoord]

41. OK... I'd give you my name and

Minnesota and North Dakota lawyer license numbers, but I don't that would serve any useful purpose as you just seem to want to be right at whatever you are asserting, and I see that type frequently in my profession - I'm wasting my time attempting to communicate with you with you on the subject.

Just so you know - ask any lawyer, any lawyer, anywhere in the United States what 'statutory rape' is and they will know (unless they never, ever go near criminal cases and do not have any interest being informed on criminal law, AND forgot pretty much everything from their law school crim law course or courses). It is the phrase used to describe sexual contact between a person who has reached the age of sexual consent in a jurisdiction and someone who has not, entirely regardless of whether the younger party consented. There are various terms used per jurisdiction to define the specific act or acts that constitute the criminalized behavior, and many states, such as Florida, delineate the seriousness of the criminal act in gradients based on the relative ages of the parties. So - no, I am definitely NOT mistaken that this is a 'statutory rape' case - that is PRECISELY what it is.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

43. OK. Now that we've narrowed this down to Minnesota and North Dakota,

do either of those jurisdictions support your statement, at #18,

"And most prosecutors are Assistant District Attorneys, which means they have to answer to a boss, who then answers to the state's Attorney General."

When you say "boss" in this context, I assume that you are referring to a local prosecutor.

In Minnesota, does "a boss" of Assistant District Attorneys answer to the Minnesota Attorney General?

In North Dakota, does "a boss" of Assistant District Attorneys answer to the North Dakota Attorney General?

[msanthrope]

74. The poster you are conversing with also doubted I was an attorney! It seems this happens

when the law and facts disagree with their reality.

The thread looks like Swiss Cheese now, but his 'proof' that I was not a lawyer was pretty funny......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014322938


Oh yeah....and he claims that he 'practiced law.'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2128159

[RiverNoord]

87. lol - that was rather amusing,

running through some of those posts.

I figured I was wasting my time when the person just wouldn't accept that this was considered a statutory rape offense, notwithstanding the specific Florida statutory language defining the specific criminal acts and their severity. I've almost never run across a layperson who doesn't have a pretty good idea about what statutory rape is.

And seriously, why would someone want to lie about being a lawyer? In my practice it's a day to day slugfest and certainly not in any way glamorous - and, frankly, my opinion of lawyers in general, after years of practice, is that about a quarter of us are halfways decent human beings... Most of the time I feel that I fall into that quarter...

Anyway, thanks for the post. It was odd getting attacked by someone like that when I merely wanted to point out that it's perhaps not a particularly good case to defend - on the moral issues or from a purely legal standpoint. At least on the legal end, I know I'd have one hell of a time defending an 18 year old who admitted sex with a 14 year-old, if the prosecution decided to press it...

[24601]

70. Yes, certainly more notorious than the targeting killing of a US Citizen, right. After all, the

USCIT isn't around to make a complaint.

But that's different - we didn't like the politics of the 1st guy....

[AnotherMcIntosh]

32. You say, "I'm a lawyer."

Really?

Then why did you say, at #18,

"And most prosecutors are Assistant District Attorneys, which means they have to answer to a boss, who then answers to the state's Attorney General."

In what jurisdiction, if any, does "a boss" of Assistant District Attorneys answer to a state's Attorney General?

If you are an attorney, why did you refer to the charge, whatever it is, as "statutory rape"? Aren't attorneys usually precise with their language?

[PSPS]

33. Haven't you heard? On the internet, everyone is a lawyer.

As many others on here have stated, there's no reason for the prosecutor to pursue this case at all. If he does so, it's his personal decision. These kids should be left alone. I think we all know the real reason this case is being pursued.

[shawn703]

34. Please enlighten us

What is the real reason this case is being pursued?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

42. He might actually be a lawyer. After all, who except for a lawyer would want to say that?

[msanthrope]

75. You know, you did this before--you accused me of not being a lawyer, and when I offered to show

proof to admin, you backed down. It was a pretty funny thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014322938

But it turns out you are claiming to be a lawyer.....


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2128159

Hmmmmm.......

[madaboutharry]

15. This affidavit is now being read by everyone this girl will ever go to high school with.

I think these parents have severely damaged their relationship with their daughter. This girl is suffering more from her mother trying to "just protect her" than any relationship she may have had. If it were me, I would hate my mother for turning this into a prosecution.

[tblue]

35. Really. Although

According to the parents they called the cops only because their daughter went missing. But then, they did not have to tell them anything if they cared about their child's privacy.

[magical thyme]

53. and yet the victim cooperated with the police

in engaging in a "controlled" phone call with the accused, during which she elicited acknowledgement of the sexual relationship.

Honestly, we know nothing about the actual relationship between the victim and her mother. I had a shitty relationship with my mother, but I'm not going to extrapolate that to this situation.

[bananas]

24. digita and oral sex

From the affadavit:

"put their fingers inside of each other's vaginas, put their mouths on each other's vaginas, and both of them used a vibrator on each other to insert it in each other's vaginas"

[1983law]

50. There's your felony...

Romeo and Juliet law notwithstanding.

[madaboutharry]

7. I was hoping that she would turn it down.

This is an overcharge. Prosecutors make this mistake all the time. They shoot for the moon and often end up with juries that are unwilling to convict on draconian charges when they would have gotten a conviction on lesser more reasonable charges.

Having listened to a tape of the phone call that was used as evidence and an interview with the younger girl's parents, two things jump out at me. First, Kaitlyn Hunt is a teenager who fell for another student without understanding the law or its ramifications. She comes across as a typical kid not a sexual predator. Second, the parents of the younger girl come across as having lost sight of what was best for their daughter. Kaitlyn Hunt's parents offered to move out of state and they still went to the police. In my mind, and I know others will disagree, I find it cruel that they would seek to ruin someone's life over this. Their daughter will end up suffering more from her parent's actions then if they had just worked it out with the Hunt's and let it drop.

[RiverNoord]

9. Statutory rape cases are ugly

when the theoretical perpetrator is still what we would consider a 'kid.' Still, lines have to be drawn somewhere or all statutory rape cases would be chaos (and I'm talking about 35 year old man/15 year old girl type stuff).

It's an overcharge, certainly - this is what prosecutors do. They prefer plea bargains to trials in most instances and use overcharging as pressure. I don't like the practice and there are ways to turn overcharges into defense advantages, at times, but if there is strong evidence of a criminal act the best response in the end is generally to plead it out. Going to a jury is a tossup on something like this.

And - teenagers without understanding of the legal ramifications of older/younger sexual relationships are the norm in this type of case. Whether we like it or not, ignorance of the law isn't an excuse - if parents of a teenager reaching the age of majority are aware of a relationship with a significantly younger person, they need to be on the ball.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Unfortunately, it's not a statutory rape case.

It's two felony counts of lascivious acts with a minor 12-16.

[happyslug]

21. I posted the law above, "lascivious acts with a minor 12-16" is what Florida calls Statutory Rape.

Under the Common Law the age to consent to sex was 12. No one liked that rule of law and it has been modified, BY STATUTE, in every state to a higher age. Most such laws do NOT use the term "Statutory Rape", they just defined it is illegal to have sex with someone below a certain age (14, 16 and 18 are the three most common cut offs).

"Statutory Rape" thus received its name for it was a "Rape" case that was a product of a Statute NOT the Common Law. Most state's actual law uses different terms.

[msanthrope]

77. Yes it is. That's Florida's equivalent charge. nt

[magical thyme]

55. I've learned better than to accept extreme offers from people in trouble

Because too often they are playing a game with no intention of making good on the offer, but just trying to make official complaints go away long enough to end them for good.

I remember years ago somebody hit my car in our condo parking lot. Couple begged me not to file insurance claim. Offered 1. to pay for repairs and 2. loan me their car while mine was getting repaired.

I foolishly accepted. The repairs ended up being done by their mechanic -- a friend of theirs -- and the car door never worked properly again. And they never came through with the loaner, but by then of course it was too late to file an insurance claim. So I was out the cost of a rental car and my car was never repaired properly.

Never. Again. An offer to move out of state could very easily turn into, well, as soon as we sell our house, which never sells because they just ask too much money. Or as soon as we have a job offer out of state, which never happens because they don't really try. And so on. Sorry, but the behavior of these parents, stretching and distorting facts (such as ages), smearing the victim's parents, etc. suggests they are manipulators who will say and do anything to get their daughter off.

And then there is this: if the Kaitlyn's parents allowed the victim to spend the night with their daughter after she ran away, then they are as guilty as their daughter for aiding and abetting. Their daughter had already been kicked off the team at that point, so they knew what was going on and they knew it was wrong as well as illegal. They weren't teens in love, so what was their excuse?

[indepat]

68. Prosecutors can't let little niceties like not being cruel and not seeking to ruin someone's life

over a picayune incident that should not even be prosecuted stand in the way of ambition and fu*king over someone with their heinous right-wing ideology.

[AnalystInParadise]

78. Are you serious?

Seriously.....do you really mean this post? Yeah, it's not like it's a crime, crime.....I mean it is just an adult sleeping with a child and removing her from her parents home without permission to do so........I mean it is just an adult molesting a child....An 18 year old whether in High School or college or the military is an adult. This adult CHOSE to ignore the parents of the family when they asked her to leave their child alone, this adult CHOSE to take that child from her parents home without telling the parents, and this adult CHOSE to have sex with a child. I am not a hard ass and I am not a fascist, however an ADULT did this to a child, whether she was 58 or one day past her 18th birthday our society has deemed her an ADULT, and she committed a crime. I have nothing personal against her, if this was an 18 year old male I would want him also facing penalties for this crime.

[indepat]

86. You make good points, but see post #12 and let the equal justice under the law precept

prevail.

[lobodons]

12. No charges should be filed

No charges should be filed for any consensual high school relationship. But 14 year olds are too young to consent is the rebuttal. Then take them out of schools with 18 year olds. This is crazy. No charges should result in any high school relationship period.

[FreeState]

28. + 1000 n/t

[tblue]

36. Schools should teach all the kids

"When you turn 18, don't date anybody who is not an adult or you could go to jail." But, now that could be problematic in its own right.

Schools should teach the students the law during sex ed. Seriously.

[shawn703]

47. I wholeheartedly agree with this

[knitter4democracy]

49. I do.

I don't teach sex ed, but when we read Romeo and Juliet, I make sure to point out the current laws. Many of us do, though the kids rarely believe us.

[tblue]

73. Good for you, knitter4democracy!

I never even thought about it before. I always had much older boyfriends. When I think what could have happened!

[knitter4democracy]

80. I have been known to tease some students about being jailbait...

That was when I was in the alternative high school, though, where things were a bit looser.

[Yo_Mama]

54. We were taught that in my school

It WAS part of sex ed.

According to the parents of the younger girl, they asked the older girl to back off, so I have trouble believing the "just didn't think about it" bit.

[Locut0s]

72. Agreed but it also points to a flaw in the laws that this should be nexessary...

I understand the idea of having a hard cutoff above which you are considered an adult. There has to be such a cut off for things like alcohol and tobacco sales, and much more related to "adult law". However I think it's clear that there should be a finer gradation when it comes to consensual sex. Or the cases need to be looked at on a case by case basis. The way it is right now teaching kids they have to be careful as soon as they turn 18 is as good as saying, OK the law right now is stupid when it comes to people your age but make sure you do this to protect yourself. Let's face it someone who is a week younger than 18 is mentally and physically the same as an 18 year old yet the current law treats the two people as having vastly different mental capabilities in this regard. It also ignores the fact that sexual experimentation is a normal part of development as very early ages, yes as early as 14 or even younger. The law needs to mature to handle these cases better!

[JimDandy]

81. + 1000. Revise the statute already.

This is cruel, mean, unjust and vindictive to charge this teenager with statutory rape.

[Monk06]

45. 1000 + a nudder 1000

[HockeyMom]

14. My husband started HS at 12 years old

He skipped a grade and was born at the end of the year. He graduated HS when he was still 16 years old. From what he told me, he had no problems dating "older women" in HS. lol By the time he turned 17, months after graduation, he had enlisted in the Air Force. Fighting in Nam for his country while still a Minor. Think about the, um, "Ladies" he met there as an underage solider.

This is why with HS students there has to be some COMMON SENSE, and discretion on a case by case basis. People fail to realize that there can be a wide range of ages between HS students. Besides my husband's age, I had one daughter who turned 18 as a Senior; born beginning of the year. My other daughter also skipped a year and just turned 17 when she graduated.

These laws are being abused when they were meant to prosecute ADULTS well over 21 (not 18 year old HS students) who prey on teenagers.

[davidn3600]

16. It's not easy to predict this case though...this is a very conservative area of Florida

Romney won Indian River Country with nearly 60% of the vote. So that gives you an indication of what this place is like. I would be worried a jury (and even a judge) would have a predisposition against her just because the romance was homosexual in nature. Some conservatives have already been tossing nasty smears on twitter and facebook.

Kate's side has pretty much admitted that a law was broken if you go by the letter of the law. And that's what puts her in a difficult position legally. This is a law that is being applied to the letter of the law but not the intent. The intent of this law was not to put teenagers in jail for decades for a high school relationship. If the Prosecution goes into trial with no lesser charges for the jury to consider, we are going to see an all-or-nothing case. That means that she'll either get off the hook or could end up serving 15 years in prison. So this is a very risky course for both sides to take and realistically it should not be coming down to that. This is a case that is begging for middle ground to be reached. This is a reason the law needs to be updated.

The 2011 plea deal should be the par of the course. In that case, an 18 year old boy plead guilty to a misdemeanor for a relationship with a 15 year old girl. Kate's lawyer said they are willing to seriously consider accepting a misdemeanor charge. But I believe the family of the other girl in this case is pushing for a more harsher deal.

But you also got to remember the other side of this in that the 15 year old is now going to be dragged through this. She will have to be called and testify and explain this relationship to a courtroom. So remember...this is going to be very difficult for BOTH girls. Both are victims of the system.

[msanthrope]

85. It's very easy to predict this case....stat rape is one of those charges that

is a near to a 'slam-dunk' as you can get. There's no mitigating defense allowed, really, and the judge will instruct the jury that if the elements are met, there is no defense. It's all about the sentencing.

I've only won one stat rape case, and that was on a pure technicality. The jury scared me and my client--they would have convicted him.

[rug]

17. Here's the statute.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/florida/statutes/florida_statutes_800-04

Here's the maximum sentence (15 years times two).

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/florida/statutes/florida_statutes_775-082

Here's the affidavit.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/21/us/hunt-arrest-affidavit.html?_r=0

[gopiscrap]

37. She should get the same deal he got otherwise

it smacks of prejudice against the glbt community. The other issue here could be that this "victims" parents might be wealthy and therefore influence governmental action. Often if it is racist or homophobic it boils down to fucking money!

[LisaL]

38. Who is he?

And what kind of deal did this "he" got?

[gopiscrap]

39. a short while ago an 18 year old male (in Florida) had

intercourse with a 15 year old female and that case was dropped down to a misdemeanor.

[shawn703]

48. 18 and 15

Is still different than 18 and 14.

[magical thyme]

58. and was it a single incident or repeated after being told to stop?

I can't help but wonder. Because if Kaitlyn had heeded the punishment by her coach and respected the wishes of the victim's parents, she would not be in this situation. Instead, she chose to defy the victim's parents and her coach, and continue the sexual relationship.

Had her parents immediately called the victim's parents and told them their daughter had run away to their home and to please come pick her up, she would not be in this position. Had they been smarter, they would have punished Kaitlyn severely at this point, for putting their family at risk over a relationship that they admit themselves was likely to be very short-term.

The victim's parents did not involve the police until after Kaitlyn had been punished by her coach and warned repeatedly to stop. They did not involve the police until Kaitlyn's parents allowed her to bring the victim into their home to spend the night sleeping with Kaitlyn, where they engaged in more sexual activity than the initial incident.

And now that they face the consequences of their actions, they respond by smearing the victim's parents, manipulating the general public with baseless smears and innuendo, and offers to leave the state. Sorry, but sometimes manipulators have their behavior catch up with them.

I have some sympathy for Kaitlyn, but none whatsoever for her parents.

[ancianita]

40. I wonder if Alan Grayson would take an interest in this.

[griloco]

44. They need a jury of their peers n/t

[JimDandy]

82. LOL Duzy to you.

[madville]

46. Probably depends on evidence

In this current case the prosecution has admissible confessions, it doesn't get much easier.

The evidence could have been weaker in the 2011 case.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

71. Relatively easier, but not a slam dunk yet.

The younger one was not under the age of 12.

Corroborating evidence must be presented to support the confession:

"Before the court admits the defendant’s confession or admission, the state must prove by a preponderance of evidence that there is sufficient corroborating evidence that tends to establish the trustworthiness of the statement by the defendant. ..."
Florida Statutes 92.565(3)

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/florida/statutes/florida_statutes_92-565

[panzerfaust]

51. Foolish - perhaps predatory - of her to have had sex with a child

Even more foolish of her to refuse what seems to have been an incredibly lenient plea bargain - after all, she does not assert that she did not have sexual involvement with the 14 year-old.

My-brother-the-lawyer repeatedly says that he hates to go to trial as one never really knows what a jury will do. However, I find it difficult to believe that the jury will do anything other than find her guilty of a felony - not a good thing, considering what she turned down.

Still, having bad judgement, based on limited life experience is what being a teenager means.

I do fault her attorney. Whilst the attorney may be correct in her assertion that this young woman's case is being handled differently than had it not been a same-sex battery if her client is found guilty, then her life's course will be dramatically changed. I think the attorney's legal judgement is being clouded by the need to make a political statement - one for which her client will pay the price.

It is easy to be brave with the lives of others.

[shawn703]

52. I think the defense might be hoping for nullification

There's no doubt that Kaitlyn was involved with the young girl, but would a jury convict her knowing she could be put away for 15 years for it? Unless in Florida they can consider lesser offenses?

[magical thyme]

56. I expect they want to plea it down further

Last edited Sat May 25, 2013, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)

The last I read, the plea offer dropped the charges from sex offender to child abuser, but that would still impact her life substantially in the future.

I think the actions of Kaitlyn's parents -- from smearing the victim's parents to playing fast and loose with facts -- have come across as manipulative and will ultimately do her more harm than good.

I find her parents frankly appalling; they apparently allowed her to bring the victim into their home and spend the night with her -- knowing the law, knowing the victim's parent's feelings on the subject, knowing they were defying the victim's parents and helping a runaway. And then they have the gall to smear the victim's parents in their blog postings and in their petition.

I'm surprised at how easily the LGBT community has been manipulated into supporting a woman who looks like she's lived the stereotype they have long fought to dispel. That gays are evil people who will "recruit" children into the "gay lifestyle." The fact is that Kaitlyn continued in this relationship after she was caught by her coach, punished by her coached, and asked by the victim's parents to leave their daughter alone. She knowingly encouraged the victim to defy her parents; that in itself shows her lack of responsibility and maturity. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, then, does it.

[Crepuscular]

59. I find this an incredibly idiotic assertion....

"I'm surprised at how easily the LGBT community has been manipulated into supporting a woman who has lived the stereotype they have long fought to dispel. That gays are evil people who will "recruit" children into the "gay lifestyle."


You are seriously proposing that Kaitlyn is "an evil gay who set out to recruit the 14 year old into the "gay lifestyle"? Seriously? Wow.

They were a couple of high school students who fell in love and fooled around. It happens about a billion times a year all over the globe and has been happening as long as there have been teenagers. The fact that they happened to be of the same gender is immaterial. No evil gay conspiracy, just teenage hormones. I have to seriously question whether you are in the right place voicing that kind of idiotic, bigoted crap.

[shawn703]

60. I think maybe you misread the post?

He's not proposing that Kaitlyn is an "evil gay", merely that the myth that the LGBT community somehow "recruits" kids is one often believed by those fundie wackos who stand in the way of their rights. Unfortunately using someone accused of improprieties with a minor as someone to rally behind is going to feed into the hysteria by that element and ultimately be counterproductive to their goals. Especially when the sexuality of the girls involved has nothing whatsoever to do with why Kaitlyn is facing charges.

[Crepuscular]

62. I don't think so, read it again.

"I'm surprised at how easily the LGBT community has been manipulated into supporting a woman who has lived the stereotype they have long fought to dispel. That gays are evil people who will "recruit" children into the "gay lifestyle."

He is clearly stating that kaitlyn is living the stereotype..........

Not sure that there is any other way to read that except that he is saying that Kaitlyn is an "evil gay who recruited a child into the gay lifestyle."

Sorry, I don't think I misread anything.

[magical thyme]

65. actually Shawn articulated better what I was trying to say

better wording would have been "looks like the stereotype." But I'm not as good a writer as I used to be.

But you can think whatever you want. If it makes you feel better to label me a bigot, go for it. whatever floats your boat.

[Crepuscular]

67. All we have to go on are your words

and you stated that Kaitlyn was living the stereotype of an evil gay recruiting a child. If that's not what you meant, fine, we all say stuff we don't mean sometimes but again, all we have to go on is the written word, not what you meant it to say in your head.

[magical thyme]

69. well now I have edited it...

so now *you* can look like the idiot with reading comprehension problems

I think within context of the entire post, it was understandable, if not as clear as it might have been. Plus at least one other person was able to understand and re-articulate it.

But all is forgiven And now I really have to go. It's time for my one teevee show of the week. Doc Marten is calling!

[magical thyme]

61. no, I don't think she set out to recruit the 14 year old.

But I find it amazing -- and foolish -- that the LGBT community jumped right on the bandwagon of her mother's libelous campaign against the minor's parents.

The criminal charges are about the ages of the two, and they exist because the adult defied the minor parent's wishes; nothing more and nothing less. The fact that they are the same gender *is* irrelevant to the case.

Yet by joining in with the smearing of the victim's parents, labeling them homophobic with not one whit of evidence, a group of people is making themselves look really, really bad. So people with the inclination to believe that evil gays trying to recruit are just given a big dose of evidence of immorality. Yes, the immorality of a smear campaign, but once you are labeled immoral, it carries over to every aspect of your being.

I am not the bigoted one. I am just a bystander pointing out the foolishness of jumping on the bandwagon with people engaging in the dirty pool of smear campaigns for the purpose of manipulation. And I think the LGBT community took their bait hook, line and sinker. I suspect the backlash will hurt Kate's case more than help it, but that's just a gut feeling. Time will tell.

[Crepuscular]

64. Yet you said that Kaitlyn was

living the stereotype of the evil gay recruiting a child?

Forgive me but that sounds just a little bit bigoted to me.

[magical thyme]

66. as I wrote above, better wording would have been...

"looks like she's living the stereotype" or something to that effect.

I didn't mean to write that she was recruiting. Only that she has given the appearance of it in minds already predisposed.

Shawn articulated what I was trying to get at far better than I am able to tonight. Back to my vodka and grape juice. Nothing to forgive...

[kiranon]

57. Agree with your post. When 18 year olds seek out much younger partners, it's often

because they do not relate well with their peers who may see them as not ready for a more adult relationship.

[madrchsod]

79. if this was a 18 yr old man and a 14 yr old girl....

i doubt anyone would defend the 18 yr adult male.

the double standard here is mind boggling.

[ScreamingMeemie]

83. As the mother of a teenaged boy, I couldn't disagree more. However, it probably

wouldn't be a criminal case if that were so. No "double standard" here.

[msanthrope]

84. Yes--it would be a criminal case if an 18 year old boy picked up a 14 year old from

home, and took them back to their home in order to have sex.


And it would be charged in most jurisdictions. If I were Kaitlyn Hunt's parents I would be shutting my mouth right now, and talking to a criminal attorney of my own.

If it makes it to a courtroom, Kaitlyn's lawyer won't be allowed to make a consent argument.