France considers electronic cigarette ban in public places
Source: The Guardian
Famous French smokers including the actor Catherine Deneuve and the novelist enfant terrible Michel Houellebecq have both publicly puffed on fake plastic slims while trying to give up smoking and retain a modicum of cool. But France's love affair with electronic cigarettes could be about to hit a major stumbling block as the government considers banning them from all public places, including restaurants and bars.
The battery-powered devices which let users inhale a vaporized liquid nicotine solution instead of tobacco smoke are the subject of a major medical report commissioned by the French health ministry and delivered on Tuesday.
The nation of Gauloises and Gitanes is showing an ever-growing dependence on electronic cigarettes, which were first produced in China in 2004 and allow smokers to get a nicotine fix without exposing themselves or others to the toxins, tar and carbon monoxide in tobacco smoke. Industry statistics show at least 500,000 people smoke e-cigarettes in France but Bertrand Dautzenberg, the professor who led the report suggested there could already be as many as 1 million people using them in France. The market is reportedly worth 100m (£85m) in France with around 150 specialist shops.
The medical experts recommended that e-cigarettes should be subject to the same restrictions as tobacco in France and therefore "banned from all the places where smoking is banned." France outlawed smoking in the workplace, including bars and restaurants, over the course of 2007 and 2008. Doctors also want the sale of e-cigarettes to under-18s to be banned, warning that the electronic devices could be "a potential gateway to smoking tobacco." A recent study in Paris found that 64% of teenagers aged between 12 and 14 who had tried an electronic cigarette had not yet smoked a real one. A growing number of UK secondary schools have reportedly begun to ban e-cigarettes over fears they lead to smoking tobacco.
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/28/france-electronic-cigarette-ban-public-places
There's no right to blow filth in everyone else's faces. Good on France.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)... is more dangerous than the 'filth' that you exhale from the chemical factory in your gut ...
Prove to me it is worse than what you belch, and I will go along with the ban ....
Otherwise ... somebody is blowing smoke, alright ...
DJ13
(23,671 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)But really now, you didn't actually expect the OP to do some RESEARCH before making that statement, did you?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)NickB79
(19,109 posts)There is no combustion to release smoke.
I'm not a smoker, and can't stand the stuff. My throat closes up and I have trouble breathing when I'm in a smoky room. Unfortunately, my mom is a smoker. Her transitioning to e-cigs has been the only thing that allows me to go home to visit any longer.
Journeyman
(15,001 posts)Given how long it took for the truth about cigarettes to become well-known, I certainly don't appreciate people using these as cancer-stick substitutes and subjecting me to whatever it is that's in the vapor.
I have no problem with smokers feeding their addiction (I quit only a little over 27 years ago myself -- toughest addiction I had, bar none), but those using these e-cancers have no compunction with blowing their noxious waste within enclosed rooms.
With those truly suicidal, I can remove myself from their aura. They're confined to the outdoors for the most part. The electronic cancer dilettantes, however, leave me no such ready solution.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Journeyman
(15,001 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Journeyman
(15,001 posts)http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/press_releases/post/2013_02_28_ecig
http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/02/20/ntr.ntt013.abstract
http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm173222.htm
http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articles/lnews/2013-04-24/e-cigarettes-at-center-of-legislative-debate/1767278.html
http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/E-cigarettes-dangers-uncertain-4497110.php
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Smoking-SB-648-Anti-Smoking-E-Cigarettes-Vapor-205331011.html
The FDA study specifically says, the e-cancers it tested had "diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans, and in several other samples, the FDA analyses detected carcinogens, including nitrosamines."
As to what's in e-cancers today, no one knows, as the CDC study makes clear, because " d)ue to the lack of regulation, no one knows how much nicotine and other substances are in the different e-cigarettes, and manufacturers have not had to provide any scientific evidence to support their claims or to comply with public health regulations intended to protect consumers from deceptive claims."
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)These were trace amounts and only in certain brands. The amounts are so small that there is no reason to believe its anymore harmful for human consumption than anything else you eat, drink or breathe.
You are wrong.
Journeyman
(15,001 posts)does the e-cancer manufacturers adamant refusal to participate in any of the studies or to make public the content of their product. None of it means anything.
Just "trace amounts." Said like you believe trace amounts never amount to anything.
Tell you what, we'll etch that deep on your tombstone: None of it meant anything.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)The FDA detected chemicals at about one million times lower concentrations than are conceivably related to human health".
The FDA detected chemicals at about one million times lower concentrations than are conceivably related to human health".
The FDA detected chemicals at about one million times lower concentrations than are conceivably related to human health".
The FDA detected chemicals at about one million times lower concentrations than are conceivably related to human health".
The FDA detected chemicals at about one million times lower concentrations than are conceivably related to human health".
Anyone that knows anything about carcinogens will tell you that trace amounts are found in everything. Do you eat grilled food? If so you better stop now, or we'll put it on your fucking tombstone "Ate grilled food and got trace amounts of carcinogens in his system, what a dumbass".
You are wrong. I know that's probably hard for you to come to terms with, but you'll have to learn to live with it.
bitchkitty
(7,349 posts)Too cute.
Journeyman
(15,001 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Ecigs are hand held fog machines with nicotine added to the solution. The health effects (mostly the complete lack thereof) of fog machines and medical devices that use PG have been well understood for decades. Other than that, its just nicotine, which by itself isn't much different than caffeine in terms of health effects.
You should go learn something about what you are talking about before you speak.
Journeyman
(15,001 posts)Show me one, independent, peer-reviewed, scientific study to back your claim.
cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)is to present the evidence.
So do you or do you not have evidence that these e cig things actually cause cancer or are you just blowing smoke out of your ass?
P.S. And no I dont smoke real cigs as I have severe asthma nor do I smoke e cigs as they are imo a waste of money.
Journeyman
(15,001 posts)http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/press_releases/post/2013_02_28_ecig
http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/02/20/ntr.ntt013.abstract
http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm173222.htm
http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articles/lnews/2013-04-24/e-cigarettes-at-center-of-legislative-debate/1767278.html
http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/E-cigarettes-dangers-uncertain-4497110.php
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Smoking-SB-648-Anti-Smoking-E-Cigarettes-Vapor-205331011.html
cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)cancer which is what you did and dont try to BS me or anyone else by claiming you didnt do that because you did when you refered to them as "e-cancers".
Now do I agree that they should be looked at to make sure they comply with all the laws? Sure I agree but trying to claim they cause cancer without evidence is silly.
Journeyman
(15,001 posts)had "diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans, and in several other samples, the FDA analyses detected carcinogens, including nitrosamines."
As to what's in e-cancers today, no one knows, as the CDC study makes clear, because " d)ue to the lack of regulation, no one knows how much nicotine and other substances are in the different e-cigarettes, and manufacturers have not had to provide any scientific evidence to support their claims or to comply with public health regulations intended to protect consumers from deceptive claims."
Damn, cstanleytech. You're so concerned you're going to get hornswoggled, you neglect to read the studies you're so adamant don't say what they do.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/science/e-cigarettes-help-smokers-quit-but-they-have-some-unlikely-critics.html?_r=0
There are trace amounts of carcinogens in EVERYTHING. All the food you eat, everything you drink, all the air you breathe. Trace amounts aren't what causes cancer. There is almost always a dose dependent relationship.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)http://www.aaphp.org/Resources/Documents/20100207FDAPetitionSummary.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/science/e-cigarettes-help-smokers-quit-but-they-have-some-unlikely-critics.html?_r=0
You are painfully wrong about this and have no idea what you are talking about. You are just embarrassing yourself at this point.
If anyone is giving into corporate marketing, its YOU and the other sheep who are falling in line with big tobacco company propaganda. Big tobacco hates ecigs because its a threat to their product.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Check out Scopolamine, that will fuck you up
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Can we ban them too because I am tired of people with cars blowing their exhaust in my face.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)Love it
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Of course, they are provided by big pharma so I guess you guys are fine with them. Heck with the Quickmist, a person could spray that nicotine all over you.
This ban is asinine and mean spirited, as are the people supporting the ban.
Journeyman
(15,001 posts)and thus are subject to FDA approval (for whatever that's worth). E-cancers studiously avoid such oversight, and keep the contents of their product secret. Glad you have such faith in the goodness of strangers when it comes to what they want to put in your lungs.
jayfish
(10,035 posts)67% Propylene glycol USP/EP
33% Vegetable Glycerin
24mg/ml USP certified nicotine
<1% Flavoring
It's made-to-order right before my very eyes.
You know what else has propylene glycol in it? These items.
How about vegetable glycerin? Here ya go.
Yup... Deadly without a doubt. I think it's a good idea for people to have a grasp of the subject matter at hand before they pontificate about it. Don't you?
Oh, and I have been smoke-free for over two years thanks to these agents of death.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Still waiting to see the evidence that this is harmful to anyone other than the person inhaling it.... when I see that, I'll support an electronic cigarette ban in public places. Otherwise, it seems to me to be pretty damned pointless. Lower exposure? Reduce the risk of teens picking them up? Yeah. Uh huh. Somehow, I really don't think this sort of legislation is going to be terribly useful, whether it's successfully passed (I imagine it will be) or not.
Banning out of "fears they lead to smoking tobacco"... hmm. Now, if I was a boy, say, under 18... with a nature of rebelling against authority (most kids do) I imagine that the ban would only make me want to do it even more. Perhaps I'd have to wait and do it in private... but this seems to me to be promoting the very thing that they say they're trying to stop.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Idiots. For actual smokers at lesat, that gate is swinging the other way.
msongs
(67,193 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Or do you just want to spew crap?
Occulus
(20,599 posts)That one's made DU suck for years.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)You are the one who justifies that mockery ...
bitchkitty
(7,349 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)and you've turned judging people into sublime art.
Bur then, years of practice in assholery tends to hone one's skills.
In that, you are in a galaxy of your own.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)What will they do to justify their inane and petulant posts though?
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)It looks similar to something unhealthy, so let's scream and shriek, have a moral panic, act like complete destructive idiots and crush people's freedoms.
Aristus
(66,075 posts)that happen.
And while I want to drop-kick people who smoke around me, I've been around people using the e-cigarette, and have not found it at all unpleasant. Far preferable to the burning, smelly airborne toxins of a tobacco cigarette.
Famously smoky France is trying to kick the habit. Good for them. Hope they are successful, regardless of the roadblocks that are put in their way.
JustAnotherGen
(31,681 posts)njoy is how I quit.
Chantix is evil - look it up. Specifically how it triggers joint issues.
Cold turkey didn't work.
Patches
Gum
Lozenges
It worked. A little puff here, a little puff there - and next thing you know you 'forget' to smoke, lose the habit, and lose the addiction. Fog machine with nicotine. That it explains it well.
And people I know that have gone from ciggy buts to inhaled nicotine (which is essentially what it is) to include myself -
Within a few days the SMELL of REAL tobacco smoke is offensive. Like makes you sick. Really sick.
The real danger with the ciggy butts are the chemicals, smoke, tar, etc. etc. The sooner you get those toxins out of your system and get down to just nicotine - the better. Then break the 'habit' then break the addiction.
Inhaled nicotine in that form (hand to mouth) is the best way to quit eveeeeeeeeeeeeeeer!
JesterCS
(1,827 posts)Gum is nasty =(
as for Chantix. I refuse to touch the stuff. It causes suicidal tendencies and problems with depression and anxiety. Two things which I have enough of as it is.
JustAnotherGen
(31,681 posts)Started within a year of being on Chantix. If you have the genetic tendency forthese issues - it looks like it aids in triggering it. That crap literally changes the way your brain works - how it perceives pleasure and pain.
If you are still smoking - go to 7-11 today and just try an njoy. Doesn't matter ifyou blow through one in a day. Get off the chemicals as quickly as you can.
ejpoeta
(8,933 posts)and has been smoke free for years now. I was very concerned about him using the chantix but watched him like a hawk. he was fine. kept on smoking like normal and smoked less and less until he stopped altogether. he does not appear to have any ill effects from having taken it several years ago.
thefool_wa
(1,867 posts)The base component of the e-cig solution that suspends the nicotine is Propylene Glycol. This is the same substance used in ASthma inhalers to suspend the medicine.
The only thing in the "smoke" expelled by these things is the nicotine, and it is gone as fast as the cloud of vapor is.
Nicotine is still bad for you, but these things have nearly zero potential for second hand harm, and even smell GOOD in a great many cases.
France can do as it likes, but don't try this nanny state BS here please.
brett_jv
(1,245 posts)I've gone from nearly a pack a day (everyday for the past 12 years) of 'analogs' down to 1 or 2, typically one in the morning, and 1/2 after lunch, 1/2 after dinner. My wife is so very pleased. The smokes I do have are starting to taste worse and worse to me, I anticipate being completely off the 'stinkies' in the next week or two. Wish me luck
This law is, imho, a joke, btw. The vapor these things produce *completely* dissipates into thin air within 5 seconds from when it is blown out, it's just water with a tiny % of nicotine and flavoring ... no tar, CO, or any of the other carcinogens involved with tobacco. And since there's no particulate matter involved, there's no 'lingering smoke' effect like happens with regular cigarette smoking, none of the smell, etc.
The only way you'd know someone is using one near you is if they blew the vapor directly into your face, and they were using a strongly 'flavored' liquid (like, say, strawberry) ... and even then, you'd just barely notice a faint whiff of the smell of the flavoring is all.
I suspect the people on here cheering on this law have never been around someone using e-cigs. I smoke mine in the closed up car with my wife (and she HATES cig smoke) and the vapor doesn't bother her a bit.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)You can do the stick-something-in-your-mouth thing, only without lighting it on fire and creating tars and carcinogens. And you can vary the amount of nicotine, so you can taper down to deal with its effects.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)mokawanis
(4,434 posts)whilst complaining about e-cigs. Makes perfect sense.
olddots
(10,237 posts)the tobacco industry .
I can't wait for you wellness wankers to aim at something else and you will .
olddad56
(5,732 posts)Everyone smoked cigarettes, and it was okay to smoke everywhere. Grocery stores, hospitals, bars, restaurants. Any public place. When the research started to come out that cigarettes MAY cause cancer, people ignored anything related to cigarettes being a possible health risk. It took another 30 or more years just to get smoking banned in restaurants and in the work place. It has taken another 30 years to get them banned in bars. A pack of cigarettes in NYC is $13.50 a pack. People still smoke. They will continue smoking until they die. It doesn't take a research study to know that nicotine, in any form is a toxic substance. But if you have a habit, and you have had that habit for a long time. You will probably smoke until it kills you. And it will.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Anyone who supports cannabis legalization while opposing e-cigs is a raging hypocrite. The entire argument for opposing them is dependent on those tired old 80's "gateway drug" clichés and prudish assumptions that society has a right to tell people what and how they can put things into their own bodies.
I should mention that I've never used an e-cig, and as a smoker who finally quit 15 years ago, I have no love for nicotine. What I DO respect are the rights of individuals to make their own decisions about their bodies...which includes the right to use drugs if they choose.
tavernier
(12,322 posts)since I picked up an e-cig out of curiosity. I haven't smoked real cigarettes since, and only take a couple of puffs of my e-cig in the evening when I enjoy a cocktail. Truthfully, I usually forget about it and have to hunt around to see if I have one charged up and ready to go. I can only think that the people who don't want to see e-cigs replace tobacco cigs work for the tobacco company.
JesterCS
(1,827 posts)If im in a plane and its going down. Screw the rules. I'm dying nicotined-up =p
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)it extremely unpleasant for non-smokers to sit outside. Seems like just about everybody still smokes. Don't see how banning the electronic version would make a difference. Seems like it might even be counter-productive.
Response to alp227 (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)I think it comes from some sort of judgmental puritanism rather than actual concerns for public health, otherwise they would be *encouraging* smokers to switch. Sure, more studies should be done, but the ingredients in the juices are well known and well tested, and not known to be dangerous even to the person using it, let alone those in the vicinity.
Blowing filth, come on. I know exactly what is in the e-juice I use, it is made by a tiny company, and it is PG and VG (approved for everything from medical inhalers to fog machines), pharmaceutical grade nicotine (just like the stuff in the patch or gum) and organic food flavorings. Ooooh, scary.
If I blow the vapor right into your mouth without inhaling first, you may get almost as much nicotine as you do from eating a fucking eggplant.
Filthy? Give me a fucking break. Car exhaust is filthy for your lungs. Cleaning products and perfumes are filthy that way too (ironically I guess). This stuff is not filthy. There may be some iffy products out there from some companies, but that is not a reason to destroy what may be the best way to quite smoking ever discovered.