Obama administration backs prayer at local government meetings

[Newsjock]

Source: Los Angeles Times

The Obama administration and congressional Republicans have found something to agree on: Town councils should be allowed to open their meetings with a Christian prayer.

Lawyers for the administration and two groups of lawmakers from the House and Senate, nearly all Republicans, separately made that argument in briefs to the Supreme Court this week. The high court should relax the constitutional limits on religious invocations at government meetings, they argued.

The case could lead to a major change in the law on religion that would go well beyond prayers at council meetings.

... The administration's filing was "a surprisingly conservative brief, and it came as a pleasant surprise," said Ken Klukowski, a lawyer for the Family Research Council, who filed the brief for the House members. "It's gratifying that even the Obama administration recognizes that courts are not qualified to censor prayers."

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-court-prayer-20130809,0,6470966.story

[OnyxCollie]

1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[limpyhobbler]

70. +1

This thread is priceless.

[Mr. David]

2. In violation of the Treaty of Tripoli.

Way to go, Obama.

[CBGLuthier]

3. So it is time for another rousing chorus of

Fuck you atheists, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists, and the rest because you are not really true citizens. I am used to hearing that song sung but did not expect President Obama to sing lead.

Oh well, another day another disappointment.

[JimDandy]

35. Yes, headline is misleading. CHRISTIAN ONLY Prayers is what Obama is backing.

Truly disgusting. Wish Harvard would revoke his law degree.

[loudsue]

45. Obama has become a HUGE disappointment.

A rightwinger's wet dream.....a republican infiltrating the democratic party and becoming president.

[Fuddnik]

4. Another day, another disappointment.

[Kingofalldems]

5. No way, Obama is a Muslin and a Communist

[Scuba]

6. Instead of meeting, they can just pray.. first Christian, than Muslim, then Wiccan ...

... it should be easy to take up all the alloted time.

[Cryptoad]

28. Will,,,,

the Satan Worshipers be allowed to offer up their prayers too? Love to see the faces on the Tea Party meeting in the Red South!

[JimDandy]

46. No... Obama is defending Christian-Only Prayers at govt mtgs.

Any other religion is out of luck.

[Niceguy1]

62. the city I live in

California rotates. One for each city council meeting. Anyone interested can submit a request.

[geek tragedy]

7. Facepalm. nt

[Swede Atlanta]

8. Fine then I'm sure they would fully support.....

If Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. that attend open meetings request that alongside the Christian prayer that all of their prayers and rituals are also observed. In some communities with large, diverse populations, this could extend those council meetings by hours.

What a crock. I am a Christian but think Obama has once again disappointed us. There is no place for any religious ritual in any governmental setting. We are a multi-racial, multi-ethnic nation and allowing a Christian prayer either means you must allow all the other religions to be represented or you stand by the separation of church and state.

[wordpix]

40. +1

[RC]

49. There are so many different religions that that will be the entire meeting -prayers.

[branford]

9. Simple political pandering.

Obama took a political hit with some moderate and liberal religious groups due to his stance on the contraceptive mandate in the PPACA. In light of the fact that the Act is still unpopular, and the administration is having difficulties both implementing it and getting people to sign-up, he's using the municipal prayer issue as a fig leaf to improve relations with the groups he needs to assist him with community outreach.

[Fuddnik]

11. Just wait until he gets re-elected, and he can show his true colors.

[branford]

17. I do not support Obama's position on the prayer.

However, the PPACA is his primary legacy, and the administration is having significant trouble signing people up. No matter how liberal Obama is, or claims to be, he is politician first and is thinking about his place in history.

[Cryptoad]

27. HOw can you have trouble signing people up ,,,

when you can not sign up until Oct 1.......

LMAO

[branford]

29. The primary problem is with implementation of the state exchanges and lack projected enrollees.

I strongly support the PPACA. However, I do not ignore the very real objections many have to the Act, nor difficulties with its implementation, particularly the establishment of the state-level insurance exchanges.

The administration is not practically begging churches, companies, sports franchises and celebrities to help get people to learn about and enroll in the exchanges once they are operable because the White House is confident and secure.

[Cryptoad]

33. The only ,,,

difficulties with its implementation seems to be in States that are doing everything they can to prevent it.... CA's up and running ,,, and I might say.... looking good!

[deurbano]

23. Giving up separation of church and state is way too big of a concession.

Last edited Fri Aug 9, 2013, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

And it won't have any more impact than all the previous concessions to those whose only mission is to obstruct. More importantly, the separation of church and state (one of our government's founding principles) does not belong to Obama... and it is not his to concede.

[branford]

30. I do not disagree at all. I was simply stating my political observations, not preferences.

[deurbano]

34. Sorry if it seemed I was taking issue with your position. (I know you called it pandering.)

My intent was to take (strong) issue with the administration's position.

[branford]

37. We are in agreement, and I certainly took no offense.

I chose the word "pandering" precisely because I felt the President's actions were insincere, conflicted with his prior professed beliefs on the separation of church and state, and most importantly, will have no effect on those he seeks to impress.

[Divernan]

63. Presidential breach of separation of church and state is no "fig leaf"!

And the fact that Obama compounded his offense by breaching the wall of separation for only one subset of religions, i.e, "Christian" is beyond unbelievable, even for him. What next, a large crucifix in the lobby of the Justice Department? That would make the conservative Christians very happy also.

I agree with the poster who suggested Harvard rescind his law degree. I'm sure some good "Christian" law school like Regent or Liberty will give him an honorary degree.

"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state&quot is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly used by the Supreme Court of the United States.

[sharp_stick]

10. BFD

I really don't care if they pray at the beginning of every meeting as long as I'm able to make Jerk-off motions with my hand during the invocation.

[branford]

18. Thanks for the visual :)

I assume that your hand motions are in connection with a deeply spiritual Native American, or maybe Wiccan, ritual that offers luck and good tidings to leaders of the tribe before discussing matters of great importance. As such, it too would be protected religious speech under the First Amendment.

[sharp_stick]

21. Sorry

didn't mean to stick the visual in your head. Fortunately you don't have an actual picture of me or it might haunt you for years.

[caseymoz]

12. Can't they just meet outside . . .

. . . five minutes before the government meeting, say their prayers, ask the Lord not to be too offended by this secular government work; pray that they-- and their corporate cronies-- don't steal too much today; then go inside and do their real jobs?

I have an idea. If it keeps the government honest, it must be a good idea for business. Every business, every corporation should be required to let employees pray on company time, individually and in groups. How long? As long as necessary.

If you're a financial company, six hours a day minimum.

We'll see how much politicians really believe in prayer's usefulness with this proposal.

[Kolesar]

13. not breaking news ... eom

[Coyotl]

14. Just peachy if they also have a scientist giving a lecture about reality

and the idiocy of metaphysical, magical thinking.

We can't allow pea-brained ideation to exist in a vacuum of reason.

[L0oniX]

15. Well now they can pray just before they cut SNAP and SS. Perfect! n/t

[blackspade]

16. Oh for fuck's sake...

WTF? Is this an administration of rethug quislings?

[MannyGoldstein]

19. "Make No Mistake... This time our Republican friends will finally realize that we are partners they

can trust and do business with. Finally, together, we can Grand Bargain the 99%. Finally I'll earn my place at the Bush dinner table."

[Divernan]

64. So true, Manny and so very, very sad!

And as I've pointed out before, anyone in the one percent has far better and more remunerative and or enjoyable things to do with their time than post on DU in support of Obama. When I continue to see posts in blind and unquestioning support of actions taken by Obama in behalf of the interests of the one percent, and economically damaging to the non-elite, such as endorsing Obama's chained CPI, I channel Will Shakespeare: "What fools these mortals be."

Reminds me of the Bush years, when I'd see the most beat-up, decrepit old pick-up trucks and cars with Bush stickers on their rusting bumpers.

Really quite depressing.

I think I'll go pop Hot Fuzz in the DVD and cheer myself up!

[cosmicone]

20. Obama has been a major disappointment

He is no different from GWB

[jsr]

68. No truer words

[yellowwoodII]

22. Too Bad

I'm sorry about this. I hate to be in meeting where I am pressured into pretending I am praying.
Recently, the president of an organization that I belong to said a prayer. I did not bow my head or close my eyes. I looked around to see a friend looking at me, also with her head not bowed or eyes closed. She winked at me.

But no, I don't agree with those who are trying to pile on Obama. I still like him.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. Once again, he kisses their ass thinking it will make a difference

and all it does is the wrong thing and pisses off his only allies.

[malthaussen]

25. Well, that's a stupid concession.

Wonder how the Court will vote.

-- Mal

[dickthegrouch]

26. No Fucking Way!!!

Which degree mill did Obama get his "Constitutional Scholar"ship from, anyway?

What is the NSA blackmailing him with?

[Android3.14]

31. Just when I thought my enthusiasm couldn't fall any further

Man, did they ever sell us a bill of goods in this guy.

[frylock]

32. of course they did. seems that the second term agenda is to flip the bird to all progressives.

[Safetykitten]

36. Please tell me I'm pretty! Please like me! Can I please be BFF!!???

He really is sickening now. Truly a sickening spectacle of pandering slobbering please like me.

[Divernan]

65. His post-presidential years will be the antithesis of Jimmy Carter.

I'm just a middle class person (retired), but I worked on the Census for two years, which put me into face-to-face contact with one percenters who were too self-important and too busy to bother to return their census forms. Talk about arrogant, talk about self-centered, talk about rude, talk about condescending. They truly do see themselves as set apart and go to great lengths to maintain that isolation. The rest of humanity are there to provide necessary services and/or act as consumers for the corporations owned by the one percent (either directly or via stocks). They have as much empathy toward the rest of us as they would to a brick in their elegantly paved driveways.

Everyone on my census team had at least a bachelor's degree, including a JD (me) & 2 PhDs - we were either laid off or retired, but all struggling financially. One guy had a PhD in something to do with fiber optics - from MIT! We were well and conservatively dressed, well-spoken and well-mannered. From the looks of disdain and expressions of hostility we received at DARING to come on their property, & telling a servant we needed to speak directly to them, you'd have thought we were dripping water on their front porch, having just been smuggled across the border and were peddling drugs.

These are the One Percenters whom Obama wants, as you accurately put it, for his BFFs.

[dbackjon]

38. What the Fuck?

Who is President? A fucking Theocrat?

[wordpix]

39. if the repukes who run my town try this shit, I'll invoke a prayer to the FSM

and demand my right to worship at town meetings as I choose

I am NOT kidding

[Bragi]

41. Next up: Rescind the amnesty for Vietnam draft dodgers /nt

[KoKo]

42. Obama doesn't believe in Separation of Church and State?

What's going on here with him?

[RC]

54. Maybe he just does not understand.

Him being a Constitutional scholar and all.

[adirondacker]

56. It's all part of the multidimensional chess game. This time it involves the movement of the Bishop.

[cvoogt]

43. Oh Lord

Blessed are the poor, but please take away their benefits because surely they must be lazy if they are so poor. Amen.
(sarcasm).

[IDemo]

44. “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites."

"For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others."

Matthew 6:5

[Deuce]

55. Very apropos...

[DeSwiss]

72. They're not familiar with nor do they even care what it says inside.

There are those who simply want to involve their god into their petty squabbles and damned lies about ''the public good'' -- in order to try and give it a veneer of authority and support it doesn't have.

- Nor morality, which it never could have.

[Socal31]

47. I think we are witnessing the creation of a new club dance:

The Obama Shuffle. One step forward, two steps back. One step forward, two steps back.


End DADT - Start a war in Yemen and arm terrorists in Libya


First sitting president to support same-sex marriage - Refuse to force Guantanamo closure


Get landmark ACA passed, bringing medicine to nations attention - Arm jihadists in Syria


Give the go-ahead for a very risky and successful Bin Laden mission - Reverse position on whistleblower protection


Are we having fun yet??


Keep Israel reigned in from possibly starting WWIII by attacking Iran, pissing of ol' Benjamin - Support selective prayer during meetings




Don't get me wrong, this is much more pleasant than the last guy out on the floor.... Mr. "Two steps back, two more steps back" Bush, but frankly it is time to switch it up even more.

[olddots]

48. Whats really repulsive is it's all bullshit

so who is really praying and why or for what ?

I have always looked around to see what other people are doing during the moment of mass hysteria or group dumbth .Whose to know that they the " most holy" aren't just jiving because it's all just a fake out . A large part of human nature appears to be ignorance for ignorance's sake .

I wish this was news but us humans are apes with technology .

[totodeinhere]

50. Congress is opened with a prayer, so why not local government? We need some consistency

If it's unconstitutional then ban it at all levels of government, not just local.

[the_sly_pig]

51. Anyone can pray at any time in any place.

What the neo-christians require is shoving their beliefs down your throat, their piety must be shown in public, hence they are not true believers but instead pharisees.

[happyslug]

52. Here are the briefs if you want to read them

Supreme Court Docket on this case (can NOT access briefs from this cite):

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/12-696.htm

Here are all the Briefs in this case, please note as of today August 9, 2013 the Respondents have NOT yet filed their Briefs. The Town of Greece has filed their Brief.

http://www.americanbar.org/publications/preview_home/12-696.html

The Senator's Brief:
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/supreme_court_preview/briefs-v2/12-696_pet_amcu_us-sen.authcheckdam.pdf

Here is the Brief of the Solicitor General, who is Obama attorney in cases in front of the US Surpeme Court:
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/supreme_court_preview/briefs-v2/12-696_pet_amcu_usa.authcheckdam.pdf

[Egnever]

74. Thanks!

Always good to get it from the horses mouth.


Not surprisingly the admins arguments are being totally distorted.

[BlueJazz]

53. Bend over Atheists, I've got a big one for you. (2x4)

[QC]

57. Surely *this* will make the Republicans love him! n/t

[classof56]

58. I'm tempted to ask, So What?

But of course this is another opportunity for Obama bashers to thoroughly rip on our President. Wouldn't think of denying you that privilege!

Oh, BTW, I'm a lapsed Baptist, in case that's of any importance. All prayers are a waste of time, IMHO, and can't figure the big deal about this. Whatever.

[alp227]

67. 2 questions:

What if a Republican president's solicitor general made similar arguments (the administration's amicus curiae is here), ESPECIALLY if it was Mitt Romney's? You'd probably be howling about a MORMON TAKEOVER of the USA like some right wingers back in JFK's time panicked about the USA turning into the Vatican.

Do you not value Separation of Church and State?

Every day it's becoming harder and harder to defend Obama.

[davidpdx]

59. Could it be that he is betting that one of the 5 conservative justices will vote against it

I see no way that the 4 liberal justices will vote for it. Scalia, Alito and Mr. Sexual Harassment will vote for it.

Strategically I see it going either:

5-4 win
5-4 loss
6-3 loss (unlikely, but it could happen)

[kath]

60. Constitutional scholar my ass!

Gack, he just becomes more and more and more and more fucking repulsive.

[freshwest]

61. OOPS! There goes that godless muslin shtick.

Still got the Saul Alinsky and Reverend Wright routine. And that one about him being the Egyptian god Ra or the incarnation of Ramses. It's always something.

[Doctor_J]

66. he sides with "nearly all republicans"

What a surprise! What a disaster.

[Ash_F]

69. I am glad the Family Research Council is pleased

Finally. FINALLY! Republican respect. We have arrived.

And all it cost us was our dignity.

[DeSwiss]

71. White House Office of the Maintenance of Turmoil

[center]MEMO [/center]
TO: Mr. Chet Mayer, Asst. Media Director of Enhancements
FROM: POTUS
Subj.: The ''POing All of America'' Project

It has come to my attention that we need broader coverage of the kinds of Americans we're alienating from our party and in particular, me.

Plus, I'd like to throw a monkey-wrench into the Republican's reelection campaigns with them trying to out Tea-Party each other, by somehow gaining the support and endorsement of the Family Research Council in some bizarre way. It'll drive them absolutely nutz!

Further, it occurred to me that I haven't significantly PO'd any atheist groups in quite a while either. Remember our motto: ''Keep ALL the liberals pissed-off and they'll never leave you.''

I look forward to seeing your ideas on the matter. Staff with the *best ideas* get to go with me to Russia Sweden.

Barack

- K&R

[Manifestor_of_Light]

73. Dear Father, son and....wait.........

Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva?

Lakshmi, Sarasvati and Durga?

Buddhas of the Past, Present and Future?

Winken, Blinken and Nod?

Groucho, Chico and Harpo?

Charlotte, Emily and Anne?

Einstein, Feynman and Hawking?

Marx, Engels and Trotsky?