Gun Advocates Reportedly Planning 'Appreciation Day' At Newtown Starbucks

[onehandle]

Last edited Fri Aug 9, 2013, 04:18 PM - Edit history (6)

Source: Huffington Post

Gun advocates are reportedly set to hold a "Starbucks Appreciation Day" at an establishment in Newtown, Conn., to celebrate the ability to carry weapons in the store. Gun control groups have vehemently criticized the event as "reprehensible."

NBC affiliate WVIT reported that gun rights advocates are using Facebook to rally supporters to head to Starbucks stores across the nation Friday to celebrate the coffee chain's open policy on carrying weapons. The company doesn't prohibit customers from openly carrying guns in states where it is legal. The "Starbucks appreciation day" Facebook page says they want to thank Starbucks for standing up for the right to bear arms.

One post by a Ridgefield, Conn., resident on the "CT Open Carry" page caught some attention. The resident said he and some members from the Connecticut Citizens Defense League were going to meet Friday evening at the Starbucks at 34 Church Hill Road in Newtown, the town where 26 people were killed in a mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School last year. (The Hartford Courant has a screengrab of the post, which appears to have been taken down.)

The Newtown Action Alliance, a group set up in the wake of the Dec. 14 tragedy, responded by calling the plans "reprehensible." "Our community is still healing and we find it reprehensible that they are picking Newtown to rally," David Ackert, a spokesman for the group, told WVIT. "It is disturbing to think that tomorrow night you and your children may be sitting in Starbucks when people carrying guns walk through the door."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/09/gun-advocates-newtown-starbucks_n_3731542.html

---

Good news. Keep it up, gun fetishists and fear the future.

Your abnormal and anti-social behavior will backfire.

Continue to support people like Zimmerman. Please proceed...

[valerief]

1. As if we needed any MORE reasons to NOT patronize Starbucks. nt

[AndyA]

2. This is just incomprehensable to me.

How cold-hearted can these people be?

I agree, this kind of crap is not going to set well with the majority of the American people. I for one will not remain in a business where other customers have weapons. Why as Americans are we expected to trust complete strangers?

We lock our homes to keep strangers out. We don't allow our children to go off with strangers. Yet we're expected to trust EVERYONE with a gun.

That's complete total BULLSH!T.

I let businesses know they've lost me as a customer. The street goes both ways.

[Just Saying]

4. Well said

And I find it particularly revolting when they make a point of going to places where the mass murder of children happened. They show a complete lack of decency. But we should trust they'll be responsible with deadly weapons.

[wordpix]

8. Starbucks, count me as one boycotting your stores, which BTW

aren't so great, anyway. I make my own coffee and I can bake and make sandwiches, too

[Iggo]

9. Yep. It's cruel. And they enjoy it. And that's why they're doing it. And that's why they suck.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. revoltingly tone deaf fuck-nuttery.

[DFW]

5. This is beyond disgusting

For once, I leave my normally pacifist sentiments aside and hope they get into a big argument and all give themselves a taste of their own medicine.

[Ferretherder]

56. To follow up on your 'argument' scenario...

...what if, say, twenty of these 'frothing at the mouth', 'gun barrel-fellating'....uh...PATRIOTS decide to gather at one particular Starbucks to rally the faithful, and, let's say, two of these conscientious gun owners get into a pissing match about just WHO is the staunchest advocate of the people's right to 'bare' arms - things escalate - and one responsible gun owner draws down on the second responsible gun owner. Does a friend of second amendment supporter no. 1, the person being drawn-upon, pull their weapon on the second amendment supporter who has taken a bead at their pal? And does a chum of super patriot no. 2, who drew their piece on weapons advocate no. 1, now draw their firearm on the protector of the unfairly targeted strict constitutionalist no. 1, in support of their friend? And does one or more of the gathered armed bears now draw their heat to 'CALM' the situation??!!?11?

...and then, does a very proper, almost timid looking young woman suddenly stand up from her table and scream, 'JESUS H. CHRIST! I ONLY CAME IN HERE FOR A GODDAMNED LATTE AND A FUCKIN' LEMON SCONE AND BY DOG, I'M GONNA' EAT AND DRINK IN PEACE WITHOUT A BUNCH OF RIFLED PENIS-EXTENSIONS WAVING IN MY FUCKIN' FACE!!!! - and pull out of her unassuming handbag a giant 'Dirty Harry' style 45 caliber howitzer, WITH a laser guided targeting device, and begin to cast a bright red dot on first one, and then another, of the foreheads of the gathered throng?

...and what could possibly go wrong in a situation like that? Hm?

[Jenoch]

57. Dirty Harry didn't carry a 45.

[Ferretherder]

58. My bad.

n/t

[Dawson Leery]

6. Guns rights groups are to fault for the negative reputation many hold

of firearms owners.

[Iggo]

7. And that's why we hate those gun-fucking assholes.

[Happyhippychick]

10. Gun advocates = westboro baptist church

[spin]

17. Interesting comment. My reply ...

Westboro Baptist Church

The Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an American unaffiliated Baptist church known for its extreme ideologies, especially those against gay people.[2][3] The church is widely described as a hate group[4] and is monitored as such by the Anti-Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law Center. It is headed by Fred Phelps and consists primarily of members of his large family;[5] in 2011, the church stated that it had about 40 members.[1] The church is headquartered in a residential neighborhood on the west side of Topeka about three miles (5 km) west of the Kansas State Capitol. Its first public service was held on the afternoon of November 27, 1955.[6]
The church has been involved in actions against gay people since at least 1991, when it sought a crackdown on homosexual activity at Gage Park six blocks northwest of the church.[7] In addition to conducting anti-gay protests at military funerals, the organization pickets other celebrity funerals and public events that are likely to get it media attention.[8] Protests have also been held against Jews and some protests have included WBC members stomping on the American flag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

I am obviously a gun control advocate as I support reasonable gun rights under the Second Amendment and I have a concealed weapons permit and carry on a regular basis.

While I enjoy studying the Bible and other faiths, many Christians have passed judgment on me and told me that my ultimate destiny is Hell. I have many liberal and progressive views with the main exception being my views on gun rights. I have had many gay friends in my lifetime and found them to be very intelligent people and overall very responsible and good citizens. I even know people who are gay and legally carry firearms with possibly good reason.

At the pistol range I used to shoot at before I retired all people were welcome. The regular members were always more than willing to help newbie shooters gain skill and it mattered not what their race, gender or sexual orientation was. I can't say that this is true of all gun ranges but the has been at the ones I shot at in Florida.

I have been shooting for over 40 years and consequently I have known a lot of gun owners. While a few opposed the gay lifestyle, most had no problem with it. Many of the gun owners that I know attend a church on a regular basis but at least as many would rather go to the range on Sunday than sit in a pulpit listening to a boring sermon. Some of the gun owners I know are atheists but they often strike me as kinder people than most Christians. (The main problem with Christianity is Christians.)

Now I understand that degrading and insulting gun owners and gun advocates is a popular sport here on DU. Still, in my opinion, saying "Gun advocates = Westboro Baptist Church" is over the top.

It sometimes amazes me how so many liberal and progressive people have an extreme hatred of those who hold different views on various subjects. I always try to have an open mind and try to carefully consider the mindset and background of those I disagree with. I have found that this approach enables me to learn and appreciate different lifestyles and views than I hold. Consequently over the years I have been able to cast aside many of my more stupid opinions. That is part of my growth over the years.

Since I consider politeness to be a positive attribute I avoid insulting others. However if you wish to insult me if you make a reply, I will not hold it against you.

Gun control is a serious subject that as a nation we need to address. In my opinion both sides of this debate will make little headway until we learn that insulting each other is counterproductive.

[Happyhippychick]

19. If you can point out a single advocacy group in the US that has done anything as offensive as this

Then perhaps your argument would move me. In this case, there is no defense. A mass rally in the very town where 20 babies and 6 heroic adults were murdered in cold blood not one year ago is beyond defense or reasonable interpretation. If you don't see that, I'm very sorry for you.

If the comparison between what these animals are doing and the WBC makes you uncomfortable then perhaps you should turn your outrage in the direction it belongs.

Good day.

[spin]

23. My problem with your post had nothing to do with the mass rally. ...

In fact you didn't even mention this.

My problem was that your post was:

Gun advocates = Westboro baptist church"

The fact that the rally at the Starbucks in Newtown was in poor taste is the subject for a different debate and in fact I might agree with you. When I see pictures of a gun advocate carrying a AR-15 or a pistol at at Tea Party rally, I feel that it is foolish and counterproductive. It's somewhat like dropping your pants and mooning someone.

Often gun advocates are as insulting as gun control advocates and my point is that often insults hinder any possible progress.

I'm sure that you are intelligent enough to understand that not all gun advocates hate gays like the Westboro Baptist Church. If I made a foolish statement like "all gun control advocates = Communists" you would have every right to be disturbed. If I read such a statement even on a pro-gun forum, I would call it out.

Both sides of the debate are largely composed of honest and responsible citizens who disagree on the issue. Both sides have valid points to make. In oder to address the problem of gun violence in our nation I feel we all need to show at least a minimum of respect for each other. Sheer hated of the other side enforced by useless and unnecessary insults will get us nowhere. It merely causes the other side to become more entrenched in their beliefs and more resistant to reason.

Have a good day.

[Happyhippychick]

38. The westboro baptist church shows up at funerals for the sole purpose of antagonizing the mourners

If you can't see the similarity between that and a group of gun nuts going to Newtown, Newtown, the very Newtown where multiple murders took place mere months ago. The very place where parents have to drive the streets where their children played and relive the nightmare of a horror that very few of us can fathom. If you can't see the similarity between those two groups then just report my post if you think it's over the top and let a jury decide. I'll take my lumps if they find fault with it.

Turn your outrage against the people who deserve it, your compatriots in gun rights.

[spin]

40. But you suggested that all gun advocates = members of the Westboro Baptist Church. ...

Others on this forum have said that all gun owners are terrorists, racists or deranged individuals looking for a chance to murder someone. Fortunately most who post here are far more polite.

What you are doing is called stereotyping. You paint the 80,000,000 gun owners in our nationswith a broad brush and don't realize the harm you are doing to your own cause.

Many gun owners support universal background checks, stiffer training requirements for those who are allowed to legally carry guns in public, strong enforcement of gun laws to curb the straw purchase and smuggling of firearms into the inner streets of our cities. I am in that group. A fair percentage of gun owners also supported the implementation of another assault weapons ban.

Both sides of the gun control debate have extremists who will show up at rallies to support their views. Both sides have loud mouthed individuals who poison the water by spouting propaganda and love to use inflammatory rhetoric.

On your side there are people wish to ban and confiscate ALL firearms except for those who are used by the military and the police. Some even favor using the military in this effort. On my side there are those who proudly carry an AR-15 to a Tea Party rally or hold a sign that says, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I will not accuse all gun control advocates as being "gun grabbers." (Note that I could use much stronger and inflammatory terms to describe gun control advocates but I chose not to as my goal is to try to promote improvements to our current gun laws and not to alienate those who support strong gun control.)

I do use my limited ability to criticize gun owners when they do or say foolish things. If I was an author, a columnist or a TV commentator I could possibly have far more effect than as a poster on DU.

Gun control is a very heated debate and pouring gasoline on a fire does nothing to extinguish it.
Let's all tone the rhetoric, the rallies and demonstrations down a bit and try to reason with each other to find solutions.

Of course if you enjoy insulting and stereotyping those who disagree with you, then that is your right. It sometimes amazes me why people who advocate political correctness and try to avoid hurting the feelings of others are so willing to call gun owners all sorts of vicious names. Then they wonder why it is so difficult to pass ANY gun control laws at a national level.

Of course I have a thick skin and no insult you can come up with will bother me. What does bother me is that I felt we had an excellent chance to make some real progress in improving our gun laws in this nation but it was lost mainly because people on both sides of the issue chose to show little or no respect for the other side.

[Happyhippychick]

42. Sorry, your issue is and should be with the antagonizers, not with those who are outraged by their

Insensitivity.

Stereotyping vs. showing up in a town to further terrorize a group of mourning parents? No comparison.

My cousin has three children under 7. She lives in Newtown. Her children lived but her life has been destroyed in ways that you will never know. This is real and personal to me. I couldn't care less as to whose feelings are hurt by my words, you have no idea how little I care. I'm not interested in healthy debate on this topic, it is traumatizing and real, not theoretical.

I'm done.

[spin]

47. I can understand your anger. ...

And I doubt if anything I can say will cause you to change your opinion but I will give it one more try.

I feel insulted when you compare me to members of the Westboro Baptist Church. In the post that started this discussion you did just that when you stated "gun advocates = Westboro Baptist Church.

Why is this?

I consider myself to be a gun advocate as I have been shooting handguns for over 40 years and have a carry permit. However I have never attended a pro-gun rally and I doubt if I ever will. I have no idea how many people show up at pro-gun rallies at any Starbucks but I seriously doubt that it's more than 1% of the gun owners and gun rights supporters in the area. The same is true of anti-gun rallies. I think that you will find that only the most dedicated and extreme advocates from both sides attend such events.

Obviously a pro-gun rally at a Starbucks in Newtown was in questionable taste. However you didn't simply say that anyone who shows up at the Starbucks in Newtown for a pro-gun rally is like members of the Westboro Baptist Church showing up a a soldier's funeral. You said "gun advocates = Westboro Baptist Church."

Now like the Westboro Baptist Church, many Christians oppose gays and gay rights. But not all Christians are against gays and many gay people belong to a Christian faith. My daughter and son in law were married by a lesbian minister. What would you think of someone who said "Christians = Westboro Baptist Church"?

It's obvious that you feel strongly on this issue and let me assure you that the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school also upset me and a lot of gun owners. Many of us hoped to see some improvements in our gun laws but unfortunately the extremists on both side of the debate poisoned the water. Consequently no meaningful legislation passed at a national level.

[bitchkitty]

43. It's certainly true of these gun advocates.

Waving guns around in Newton is equivalent to waving signs at a soldier's funeral.

The comparison was apt, in this case.

[spin]

48. Perhaps for the demonstrators in Newtown but ...

"gun advocates = Westboro Baptist Church", the comment in the post I replied to, is to me over the top.

That would be like saying, "Gun control advocates = Communists." Obviously false and inflammatory.

[loudsue]

11. How come gun wielding mass shooters don't mow down people like this?

Instead of innocent children or movie goers or college campuses? Where are the loonies when there is a good group worth shooting at?

[spin]

13. One reason is that usually mass shooters pick gun free zones. ...

Also you have to realize that a person in a crowd may have a carry permit but wisely not decide to try to make a difficult shot at a mass murderer unless he at at an extremely close range. You may be a great shot at the target range and able to hit a target at 25 yards consistently but your skill deteriorates significantly in a real life or death encounter. Real life is not like TV or the movies.

Chances are that the mass murderer will have higher powered firearms with more capacity then your concealed pistol or revolver. A person with a carry permit is not a cop, nor is it his job or responsibility to put his life on the line to defend others. Heroes are rare and far between which is why they are heroes.

Consequently it may the wisest choice to try to insure that you and those you love can escape the madman who decides to shoot up the place you are at.

Concealed weapons are most effective when you are attacked by a person who intends to put you in the hospital or six feet under and has the ability to do so. Such encounters are often at arm's length. I carry a snub nosed revolver because it's light and easy to conceal. A snub nosed revolver is often called a "belly gun" as you can shove it into your attacker's belly, pull the trigger and it will fire reliably. You don't have to worry about accidentally hitting an innocent bystander if you do this but snub nosed revolvers are difficult to fire accurately under stress at distances beyond 15 or 21 feet.

[hunter]

45. Hiding on the roof and throwing a handful of firecrackers into a crowd of gun freaks...

...might start a chain reaction as they all start shooting the shooters.

I'm sure there's a youtube skit like that.

[spin]

12. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the Starbuck's policy on allowing the legal carry ...

of firearms in their shops.

Of course I live in Florida where almost 1,000,000 residents have concealed weapons permits. It is uncommon to find any major retail chains that forbid firearms in their establishments in Florida.

I have a concealed weapons permit and I carry on a regular basis. If I walk up to a store and find a "no-guns" sign on the door I simply take my business elsewhere. I also call the store and ask to talk to the manager. I politely inform him that he has lost my business. I haven't had to do this in probably the last ten years. "No-gun" signs were fairly common when "shall issue" concealed carry passed in 1987 but a year later many stores had removed these signs.

I should point out that I also have no problem if a person decides to boycott a business that does allow legally carry. I suggest that they also call the manager and they him that they will no longer patronize his business. Fair is fair. The business owner should have the right to determine if legal firearms are permitted on his property.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me for someone to refuse to do business with a Starbucks but to drive to a Dunkin Donuts that also allows legal carry to buy their coffee. Still had the effort to get Starbucks to change its policy been successful, I realize that the campaign would have been extended to other retail chains. Unfortunately for gun control advocates it doesn't appear that their efforts have had much success.

MARKET PULSE Archives
Jan. 24, 2013, 4:26 p.m. EST
Starbucks posts 13% higher profit

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Starbucks Corp. SBUX +0.19% reported late Thursday its fiscal first-quarter profit rose to $432 million, or 57 cents a share, from $382 million, or 50 cents a share, a year ago. Revenue for the quarter ended Dec. 30 rose 11% to $3.8 billion from $3.44 billion. Analysts surveyed by FactSet had expected the Seattle-based coffee giant to earn 57 cents a share on $3.85 billion in revenue. Starbucks stood by its fiscal 2013 revenue growth target of 10% to 13%. Starbucks shares fell 1.1% to $54.00 in after-hours trade.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/starbucks-posts-13-higher-profit-2013-01-24

Starbucks was probably an excellent target for gun control advocates to focus on as it would seem that its clientele would be more liberal and therefore more opposed to the legal carry of firearms. Of course the chain also attracts people who are often financially well off and often these are the very people who can afford the expense of obtaining a handgun and a license to carry.

Many gun control advocates live in areas that are gun-unfriendly and have laws that make it expensive and difficult for the average citizen to legally carry a handgun. I can understand why a person living in such regions would have some fear of those who legally carry as they are mostly familiar with the tragedies caused by criminals who illegally carry.

But in Florida, concealed carry permits are so common that if you live here it is quite possible that you know several co-workers or neighbors who have one. When you find that a close friend or a co-worker or even a boss that you respect has a permit to carry, you may not decide to run out and get one but it does effect your viewpoint on people who have such permits.

Now I am not trying to say that all people who have such permits are angels who will never have an accidental discharge or misuse their weapons to murder or commit a crime but the fact remains that such incidents are very rare. In Florida, your chances of getting shot by a person who has a legally concealed handgun are less than your chances of getting hit by lightning (assuming you do not attack him with the intention of putting him in the hospital for a long time or six feet under.)

You state:

Good news. Keep it up, gun fetishists and fear the future.

Perhaps sometime in the longterm future you will be proven true but considering how successful the gun rights advocates were this year in passing strong gun legislation at a federal level, I'm not concerned about any major chances in our federal gun control laws in the near future.

[Mr. David]

14. Why don't you just open carry instead of concealing your gun?

It's the Wild West in Florida, you know.

You can shoot anyone who offends you, and call it SYG and call it a day.

If you were a smart gun owner, you would turn in your license to carry, your concealed permit, and finally all of your guns and ammos to the nearest smelter to be melted down to nothing.

And deal with the sanity of not carrying a gun. I don't need guns to announce my intentions. I don't need to.

[tumtum]

20. I believe open carry in FL is illegal.

I live in AZ where you don't even need a permit to conceal or open carry, but I do keep my AZ permit current for reciprocity purposes.

[spin]

28. That's correct. There is an "open carry" movement in Florida ...

but it has little chance of becoming the law. Tourists are far too important in Florida and many come from gun unfriendly states and from Europe.

[spin]

21. The simple answer is that "open carry" in public in Florida is against the law. ...

I doubt that this will change as Florida values tourism and many tourist who visit from gun unfriendly areas of our nation and people from Europe might be disturbed by the open carry of firearms.

It is somewhat difficult to carry a concealed handgun in Florida because the heat during most of the year makes wearing a covering garment such as a jacket uncomfortable. Often Floridians chose to conceal their firearm by wearing a photographer's vest or a Hawaiian shirt. Wearing such a garment can make it somewhat difficult to rapidly draw your weapon in an emergency and it can be a giveaway that you are "packing." Consequently many Floridans who carry on a regular basis chose to carry a compact light handgun that they can easily drop into their pants pocket.

I have known several people who are business men to carry a full sized handgun under their suit jacket and one who covered his with scrubs even though he was not a member of the medical profession.

Open Carry would offer some advantages but might be offset by the fact that carrying a very expensive firearm in open view might lead to some fool attempting to grab and steal it. There is a movement to pass "open carry" in Florida which has had little success for the reason I described above. If it ever does pass, I may consider open carry once the practice became common. I have no desire to scare or intimidate others. I have been carrying a snub nosed handgun in my pants pocket for over fifteen years and I doubt if anyone ever knew that I was.

In the winter months, I sometimes chose to carry a 3" .357 magnum revolver in an inside the waistband holster under a light jacket. This handgun is easier to shoot at a longer distance and far more effective than the .38 caliber snubbie that I normally carry in my pants during the summer months. Admittedly my snub nose revolver is on the lower scale of handguns suitable for self defense but to be honest I have little fear of ever being in a situation where I have to use lethal force to stop an attack. I simply prefer to be prepared for the very unlikely chance that I will be attacked by anyone who intends to seriously injure or kill me and has the capacity to do so. On the other hand I know several people who have recently been robbed at gun point. Fortunately they sere not harmed as the street thug simply wanted their money.

If my situational awareness ever fails me and I find myself facing an armed individual who wants my wallet I will appraise him. If he appears rational and sober, I will simply give up my wallet as I can replace my money, my credit cards and my ID far easier than I can my health or my life. I learned this many years ago in a martial arts class. Of course if the individual strikes me as totally irrational or dangerous or if he choses to attack me even after I give up my wallet, I will try to use my handgun to stop his attack. Of course if I do so and even if my action is considered totally justified, I will have to live with the aftereffects for the rest of my life. Currently I sleep well at night and have no desire to wake up with nightmares about my shooting and possibly killing or seriously injuring another person. Police officers who have shot a criminal often have to undo long sessions of counseling to overcome the psychological they suffer.

[wordpix]

22. WTF does any of this have to do with "a well regulated militia" i.e. 2nd Amend?

[spin]

24. That is an entirely different debate. ...

Supreme Court: Individuals Have Right to Bear Arms
by DINA TEMPLE-RASTON
June 26, 200810:31 AM

In a dramatic moment on the last day of this term, the Supreme Court declared for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to self-defense and gun ownership.

***snip***

An Individual Right

The precise meaning of the Second Amendment — "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" — has long been a subject for debate. In a decision nearly 70 years ago, the justices suggested it was a collective right, not an individual right to bear arms. This is the first time the court has defined the amendment so definitively.

The two sides in this case viewed the Founding Fathers' intentions very differently. The majority of the justices said the amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia and to use that firearm for lawful purposes, such as self-defense in the home. The dissenting justices said the amendment protects only the right to possess and carry a firearm in connection with militia service.

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapons whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote for the majority. But it did allow for individuals to have guns for lawful purposes, such as hunting and defending themselves, he said. The majority clearly saw the individual right to own a gun.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91911807

I often see your argument expressed here on DU but is it any better than the religious conservative argument that the Supreme Court made a bad decision in Roe v Wade?

[LanternWaste]

15. What can go wrong when Yosemite Sam wants to vent his most righteous of rages?

What can go wrong when Yosemite Sam wants to vent his most righteous of rages?

Loony Tunes, indeed...

[Tom Ripley]

16. Stay classy, gunhumpers

[spin]

25. Perhaps the same advice should apply to gun control advocates. ...

If we all stop insulting each other maybe we can make some progress on improving the gun laws in our nation.

[Tom Ripley]

29. That is your comrades-in-arms who are parading around in Newton with their precious guns...

things like that are indicators of which side needs to observe some appearance of tact and decency.

[spin]

30. My point is that both sides of the gun control debate have to show some restraint. ...

While I see absolutely no problem with Starbucks policy to allow legal carry in their shops I will oppose the mass gathering at Starbucks in Newtown. It's simply in bad taste. It also does nothing to further the cause of gun rights supporters in the debate over gun control.

I have never attended a Tea Party rally nor will I ever do so. But if for some reason I did, I would not carry an AR-15 to make a point. The image might make its way to the net and would only irritate those who support gun control and call for further bans on assault weapons.

We do have a problem with gun violence in our nation and we need to address this issue. I fully support a number of ideas that would improve our national gun laws but my efforts to support these improvements gets lost in all the hatred that both sides show each other.

We will make little or no progress on this issue until both sides show at least a minimum of respect for the views of the opposite side.

[Paladin]

32. You're preaching to the choir, here.

How about directing some of that good advice about avoiding bad-taste actions and open carry of AR-15's to your pro-gun activist associates. Want some respect? Earn it.

[spin]

34. I am limited to talking to other gun owners that I know, contacting my elected representatives ...

and posting here on DU and sometimes (rarely) on more pro-gun forums. I am not an author, a columnist or a TV commentator. Therefore what I say has little impact. I do try my best to convince both sides that if we ever want to make headway in addressing the problem of gun violence, we all need to show a little respect to those who disagree with us.

The open carry of AR-15s and pistols in public is against the law in Florida. Therefore it is a non issue here.

You are giving my voice far too much credit.

[ConcernedCanuk]

18. I am SO glad Canada does not allow carrying guns, concealed or not.

.
.
.

Sorry folks;

I'm never gonna visit the USA again - although I did multiple times from the 50's to 1980.

Been up and down both coasts, and traversed diagonally from CA back to Ontario,

So I've been in most of the states, all by car - and it is a nice country.

IT'S THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUCKS, but it is subservient to the MIC and so on.

I liked the people I met, but the USA's stance on the World pisses me off,

and this policy of allowing most to carry handguns, and the "Stand your Ground" thing,

I think I'll just stay in my own country thank you very much.

Might just live a little bit longer,

and be more peaceful.

CC

[spin]

26. That's your decision and I respect it but ...

I could point out that your chances of getting shot by a person with a concealed weapons permit in Florida is far less than your chances of getting hit by lightning.

In fact despite what you read in the media gun violence in Florida is at an all time low.

Florida firearm violence hits record low; concealed gun permits up
Debate continues over relationship between guns and crime

By JACOB CARPENTER
Posted January 6, 2013 at 5:15 a.m.

In the so-called Gunshine State, home to the most gun permits in the country, firearm violence has fallen to the lowest point on record.

As state and national legislators consider gun control laws in the wake of last month's Connecticut school shooting, Florida finds itself in a gun violence depression. The Firearm-involved violent crime rate has dropped 33 percent between 2007 and 2011, while the number of issued concealed weapons permits rose nearly 90 percent during that time, state records show.
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/jan/06/fla-firearm-violence-hits-record-low/

[Joe Bacon]

31. Tell that to Trayvon's parents.

I'm sure they will disagree.

[spin]

33. I'm far from a Zimmerman supporter as I feel that when he made a decision to follow ...

Trayvon he was playing a cop wannabe or a vigilante.

I have a concealed weapons permit in Florida. I would have never considered any individual who was wearing a hoodie in the rain to be suspicious in the least. So I would have never even called the police.

But I am not acting in the role of a neighborhood watchman in a gated community that had a history of robberies and break ins. Perhaps in that situation if the individual was acting truly suspicious, I would have called the police. I feel that my responsibility would have ended at that point and I would have simply continued on my way. The last thing that I would wish to happen if I was carrying a firearm was to initiate a confrontation.

There was no evidence or video tapes of what happened when Zimmerman encountered Martin. Two people know what happened that night and only one is alive today. This is often what happens in a self defense shooting without witnesses. Dead men tell no tales.

The prosecution failed to set forth a case that would have convinced the jury that Zimmerman murdered Martin in cold blood beyond reasonable doubt. He may well have but the jury listened to all the evidence and ruled that Zimmerman was not guilty but that doesn't mean that they felt he was totally innocent. Given the evidence, I feel that the verdict was correct although unpopular.

Our system of justice is FAR from perfect but it still is better than trial by the media. The media had largely determined that Zimmerman was guilty but there is the possibility that Zimmerman actually had good reason to fear for his life. If a guy was on top on me slamming my head into a sidewalk, i might feel the same.

I have no idea what happened that night. Perhaps Zimmerman confronted Martin with a very aggressive attitude and perhaps he even flashed his handgun to intimidate Martin. In that case, Martin would have had every right to fear for his life and fight. He might have felt that if he ran, Zimmerman would have shot him in the back.

One of the major problems with allowing citizens to legally carry firearms is that occasionally one will misuse his weapon to commit a crime. However considering that almost 1,000,000 resident Floridians have carry permits, such incidents are rare. There are no reliable statistics on how often a honest citizen is able to successfully stop an attack with a legally concealed firearm. Often such events end with no shots fired and no injuries. The attacker simply choses to run. The estimates that exist seem to support the view that concealed firearms are more likely to be used in legitimate self defense then to unnecessarily shoot or murder someone.

While I support the "stand your ground" law in Florida, I feel it needs to be rewritten to eliminate some ambiguities and confusion that have led to questionable decisions in a few cases.

[ConcernedCanuk]

41. Umm - I beg to differ - less than 10 die a year from lightning.

.
.
.

Lightning strikes somewhere in the United States about 55,000 times a day. Because of its potent mix of heat and humidity, Florida gets approximately 3,500 lightning strikes a day. It's estimated that five to 10 people there are killed each year by lightning.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=126920&page=1


and other sources suggest that guns do sorta play role in violent death

"Murders by firearms have increased dramatically in the state since 2000, when there were 499 gun murders, according to data from Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Gun murders have since climbed 38 percent — with 691 murders committed with guns in 2011.

Only partial numbers are available for 2012, but from January to June, there were 479 murders in Florida — 358 of them committed with a gun. That’s an 8 percent increase in gun murders compared to the same period in 2011."

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/04/23/12542/firearm-ownership-rises-florida-gun-murders-increase

Maybe ya got more lightining deaths that ain't been recorded properly then . .

?itok=QOuveCUn

CC

[spin]

49. You are talking about ALL murders not just those caused by Floridians with ...

concealed weapons permits.

Remember I said:

I could point out that your chances of getting shot by a person with a concealed weapons permit in Florida is far less than your chances of getting hit by lightning.

Florida complies a monthly summary report on concealed carry in the state that you can view at http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/reports.html

If you do so you will find that "Shall Issue" concealed carry passed in Florida in October 1987. Since then Florida has issued 2,501,306 carry permits of which 1,137,510 at currently valid.

In that 26 year period of time only 168 concealed weapons permits have been revoked for the commission of a crime that occurred after the license was issued.

Now not all these crimes involved a shooting. Unfortunately Florida does not break this figure down further to state what crimes caused the loss of the license. But let's assume that all 168 revoked licenses were shootings of innocent people. 168/26 = 6.4. shootings per year which is less than 10 lightning strikes. If we actually knew how many people with concealed weapons permits in Florida actually shot some innocent person, the figure would drop to less than 5 a year.

In order to get a concealed carry permit in Florida you have to undergo a background check. This largely eliminates the criminal element and people who have a history of violence in their pat.

[Hoyt]

27. It appears Canadians, Australians, etc., are much tougher than the weenies arming up here.

[dbackjon]

35. And Starbucks closed the Newtown store early

[iamthebandfanman]

36. i just hope

nobody ever decides to take a recording of rapid gunfire and play it at one of these gatherings..

bullets would fly every which direction :p

[Mushroom]

37. Celebrating Guns in Newtown

Makes perfect sense. If gun advocates don't think about their own children's safety why would they care about the memory of the Newtown children.

[CBHagman]

39. Customer service contanct information for Starbucks

[url]http://customerservice.starbucks.com/app/contact/ask/[/url]

Starbucks Customer Relations
PO Box 3717
Seattle, WA 98124-3717

Phone
800-Starbuc (800-782-7282)
Mon – Fri 5 AM – 8 PM (PST)
Sat 6 AM – 4 PM (PST)

[Octafish]

44. So does the FBI talk with snipers using silencers to take out gun nuts?

They did for OWS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3119333

[Ash_F]

46. Such diversity in that crowd. /nt

[Paladin]

50. Aw, Cut 'Em Some Slack.

I see three or four different styles of facial hair in that hyper-white, scowling assembly.....

[ZombieHorde]

51. Doing this in a place that has recently experenced intense gun violence

is pretty fucked up in my opinion.

[olddots]

52. what do these scum bags want ?

really what do these people want ?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

53. To terrorize and intimidate.

.....


Scumbags, all of them.

[Rocknrule]

54. They think their guns are more important than your children

What about my right to send my kids to public schools and universities
or go to a post office or immigration center
or eat at a crowded restaurant
or see a movie
or attend a place of worship once a week
or visit a shopping mall
or go to a public event for a local politician
or serve on a military base
or go to the office every day
or attend a large house party
without worrying about myself or my loved ones being mowed down by some heavily armed psycho?

[Jenoch]

55. You have an extensive list of locations where

shootings have occurred or where you think they will occur. How many shootings HAVE OCCURED where the shooter was also a CCW permit holder?

You mentioned a place of worship. You are aware that there was a shooting at a church in Colorado a couple of years ago and the shooter was stopped because he was shot by a CCW permit holder?