Glenn Greenwald's Partner Detained at Heathrow Airport for Nine Hours

[Hissyspit]

Source: Guardian

Sunday 18 August 2013 14.21 EDT

Glenn Greenwald's partner detained at Heathrow airport for nine hours

David Miranda, partner of Guardian interviewer of whistleblower Edward Snowden, questioned under Terrorism Act

The partner of the Guardian journalist who has written a series of stories revealing mass surveillance programmes by the US National Security Agency was held for almost nine hours on Sunday by UK authorities as he passed through London's Heathrow airport on his way home to Rio de Janeiro.

David Miranda, who lives with Glenn Greenwald, was returning from a trip to Berlin when he was stopped by officers at 8.30am and informed that he was to be questioned under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. The controversial law, which applies only at airports, ports and border areas, allows officers to stop, search, question and detain individuals.

The 28-year-old was held for nine hours, the maximum the law allows before officers must release or formally arrest the individual. According to official figures, most examinations under schedule 7 – over 97% – last under an hour, and only one in 2,000 people detained are kept for more than six hours.

Miranda was then released without charge, but officials confiscated electronics equipment including his mobile phone, laptop, camera, memory sticks, DVDs and games consoles.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/18/glenn-greenwald-guardian-partner-detained-heathrow

[leveymg]

1. Sounds like the same harrassment the US subjected Poitras to for years after her unflattering video

of the US occupation of Iraq.

Can the US and UK really honestly call themselves free and democratic societies, anymore?

[RKP5637]

4. LOL, free and democratic societies. Yep, under strict guidelines and mandates ... other

is a delusion.

[orpupilofnature57]

51. +1000 !!!!

[Bragi]

87. With routine lawlessness thrown in, right? /nt

[RKP5637]

89. Yep! n/t

[KittyWampus]

70. LOL! Poitras never got her story straight about what happened in Iraq. They have good reason to want

to question her.

[leveymg]

73. Oh, please.

Where did you read that, Newsmax?

[KittyWampus]

75. You know, people who actually care about facts don't spend their entire time in a circlejerk.

Maybe you should do a little reading outside your usual closed circuit.

It's stupid to just blindly accept what you are spoon fed, no matter if it's from the US Govt OR Greewald/Assange's crew. There are inconsistencies in what she claims happened in Iraq.

And the fact she conspired with Snowden and Greewald also makes her a valid target.

[leveymg]

81. Makes her a valid target for what?

You talk like someone who's trying to prove she's tougher than nails. What the hell do you know about what I read?

Apparently some idiot National Guard types noticed Poitras videoing a US attack on a mosque from the roof of a friend's apartment building and assumed that she was a spotter for Iraqi insurgents, or something to that effect. She was actually an imbedded reporter with all the proper passes. She was checked out by MID, and passed. Idiocy knows no bounds, particularly when men with little experience in the world are given the power of summary execution in the theater of war - they assume they can make the same judgements about everyone, even other Americans. That's the extent of the "inconsistencies" in her story.

You really shouldn't assume anything, particularly about the existence of non-acknowledged conspiracies in this episode. That just makes you another in a crowded field of Rightwing

[midnight]

106. Interesting women... She interviewed William Binney another Whistleblower...

"On August 22, 2012 The New York Times published an Op-doc in a forum of short documentaries produced by independent filmmakers that was produced by Laura Poitras and entitled, The Program.[10] It is preliminary work that will be included in a documentary planned for release in 2013 as the final part of the trilogy. The documentary is based on interviews with William Binney, a 32-year veteran of the National Security Agency, who became a whistleblower and described the details of the Stellar Wind project that he helped to design. He states that the program he worked on had been designed for foreign espionage, but was converted in 2001 to spying on citizens in the United States, prompting concerns by him and others that the actions were illegal and unconstitutional and that led to their disclosures. The subject implies that the facility being built at Bluffdale, Utah is a facility that is part of that domestic surveillance, intended for storage of massive amounts of data collected from a broad range of communications that may be mined readily for intelligence without warrants. Poitras reported that on October 29, 2012 the United States Supreme Court will hear arguments regarding the constitutionality of the amendments to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that were used to authorize the creation of such facilities and justify such actions."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Poitras

[JimDandy]

2. Grabbing all his electronics was the whole reason for the stop.

The 9 hours was to send a msg to Greenwald.

[MADem]

5. Yep. I think you might be correct. They may have thought he was a courier of some sort.

If not carrying materials, perhaps encryption keys?

[NorthCarolina]

12. More likely they wanted all of the contact info in his cell phone

and on his laptop, information or photos that could be distorted and used for propaganda purposes. Things of that nature.

[MADem]

16. "Photos that could be distorted and used for propaganda purposes?"

Don't be silly. That's just ham handed and 1950s Cold War Doctor Evil foolishness. Even if he had Anthony Weiner-style photos, who gives a shit? He's not running for Mayor of NYC.

The contact information, certainly--if it was salient.

I think that they are looking for an encryption key or keys, myself.

Time will tell. Or maybe it won't.

[Kelvin Mace]

91. I think you put your finger on the issue

Encryption keys.

But, they also would have a stack of contacts to begin harassing. Under current U.S. "guilt by association" law, they may now start intercepting all emails/phone calls, etc, of every single person on the list, then all of the people they talk to, and onward.

It was a fishing expedition of an extra-helping of Greenwald intimidation.

[MADem]

93. It probably wasn't a fishing expedition.

I wouldn't be surprised if German intelligence found a way to learn that the filmmaking documentarian provided thumb drives to Miranda. He probably was on their radar the minute he boarded the plane in Rio.

Of course, the fact that Miranda's plane ticket was paid for by the GUARDIAN was a huge clue that he wasn't there on a little Euro vacay.

If he and the filmmaker wanted to do things quietly, they would have recruited a less obvious person to act as a mule, done the file transfer in a large and busy restroom with no other contact, and not had the GUARDIAN pay for the plane ticket--heck, put it on one's own card, and get reimbursed later.

No subtlety. They're like the gang who couldn't spy straight.

[Kelvin Mace]

99. I think he would have been stopped regardless of who paid for the ticket

However, were I in Greenwald's position, I, and my wife, would be carrying about a dozen flash drives every where we went, all with state of the art encrypted data.

Each would contain the same file: A multi-gigabyte database file with billions of null entries and a single text string:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[MADem]

100. Maybe so, but GG was stupid to use him as a mule.

If he ever gets his phone back, he's going to have to throw it out. Same deal with all his electronics.

It's fine to be secure in YOUR papers and effects, but when you steal papers and effects from government agencies, that's a different situation.

[Kelvin Mace]

104. Government has one power we don't in this situation

The ability to say "this is TOP SECRET" and you don't get to to read it.

Our papers, however, have zero protection.

Our government is SUPPOSED to answer to us, but it routinely hides things from us. Usually what it is hiding is evidence it broke the law, and/or evidence it did something stupid (and expensive).

It is not THEIR papers Snowden "stole", but OUR papers THEY won't let us read. My only gripe with Snowden, Greenwald, et al, is that they just release the whole damn trove of OUR papers so we can see all the crimes committed. A little here, a little there is just self-serving.

[MADem]

105. David Miranda, Guardian Courier, wasn't carrying "his" papers, though.

He was carrying materials stolen from the US government by Edward Snowden, handed off to filmmaker Poitras, and given to Miranda for transfer to Greenwald. The material could have been TS/SCI or Unclassified. The thing is, though, it didn't belong to him. It was stolen property. He's not even a US citizen, so he can't play the "We The People" card.

Your argument that "we" are entitled to see everything wouldn't have gone over too well right before the Normandy invasion. That's just a silly conceit. There is a concept called "national security" and you're ignoring this obvious and necessary aspect of our government solely because you want to win the point.

[Kelvin Mace]

117. So, if a person has evidence of criminal activites

which are "stolen" from the criminals, passed to a third party, the criminals are perfectly within their legal rights to kidnap him and take them back?

But, we don't know that the documents contained "evidence of criminal" activity, you say. Yeah, that's kind of the rub. Whenever the government does commit crimes (murder, torture, fraud, overthrowing democratically elected governments) the evidence becomes classified as "state secrets" and matters of "national security".

You seem perfectly willing to take the government at their word despite the government's LONG and SORDID history of lying and abusing the public trust.

I do not.

I have read many "Secret/Top Secret" documents over my lifetime that the government fought tooth and nail to suppress and the inescapable conclusion is that on about 5% of the stuff genuinely falls into the realm "national security". The rest of it is political CYA and obstruction of justice.

How many times must the government lie to you before you stop believing them?

How many lies has the current administration told in the last three months about actions revealed by Snowden and about the scope of domestic spying?

Do you approve of this kind of behaviour?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-schedule7-danger-reporters

When the CIA starts marching into news rooms and destroying computer hard drives, will that be a reasonable action to defend national security?

We just had an administration fabricate evidence to justify a war that cost hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, over a trillion dollars in tax payer money and resulted in state sanctioned war crimes. Why should ANYONE trust what the government says on matters of "national security"?

[MADem]

118. You're not the judge, jury and executioner, here, though. That's what courts are for.

You've already concluded that there's evidence of "criminal" activities in those documents, but no court has told us that yet.

There are charges against the person accused of stealing the documents. Those need to be addressed by a court, and in time, if that person's accomplices are proven to have participated in a crime, they'll be charged, too.

You toss up the straw man that I seem (everyone "seems" to know what others think, here--it's hilarious) to be happy to take the government at their word, while you "seem" happy to take Snowden, Poitras, and Greenwald at their word.

I'm right/you're wrong is a schoolyard game. All I can do is laugh at it.

And then you trot out the "Well, one guy over here did a bad thing, so that means other guys over there are doing a bad thing! These guys lied, so that means those guys lied! We can't trust anyone! Waaah!" It's a typical argument heard from some of the more paranoid political corners--none of them, though, add much to the overall discourse.

I think Greenwald isn't as smart as many people surmise, and I also agree with The Magistrate's take in this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3489324 on why this bullshit is going down. This kind of political intrigue makes Rove's games a decade and change ago look like the sand box in the preschool play yard.

[Kelvin Mace]

122. I certainly take Greenwald at his word

So did a lot of other folk until he had the temerity to call Obama on his failings. Then suddenly he was scum.

His record of lies versus the government's is pretty much a no-brainer.

I had these same damned arguments with election officials who accused myself and other activists of all kinds of skulduggery because what we said contradicted what the voting machine salesmen told them. After about the tenth time we exposed Diebold, et al's lies for exactly that, lies, I asked the same question: How many times do we have to be right before you stop listening to people who have done nothing but lie to you?

I have had government, in the form of police and district attorneys look me in the eye and blatantly, inexcusably, transparently, lie to my face. I literally, not figuratively, but literally had a DA tell me black was white (the issue was the "dark clothes" my mother was wearing when she was run down by a drunk policeman doing 70 in a 40. The "dark" clothes consisted of her white shoes, white hose, white nurse's uniform and bright red jacket. Also, according to this DA, my mother "ran into the cop's car" not the other way around).

And this was not the first time I had to deal with official misconduct, it was just the latest in a long line of lies I heard government officials tell to hide their crimes.

So, sorry that I am getting a bit heated here, but I have heard this song too many times (not your argument, but the lies flowing out of DC). I also remember what is was like to have people questioning my every action and casting it into the worst possible light when all I was trying to do was expose the truth. So, maybe I am a bit biased on Greenwald's/Snowden's behalf.

[MADem]

123. I can't believe him anymore. I think he has an agenda, I don't think he's telling the truth about

his motivations or his prior relationship with Snowden, predating his arrival at Booz, and I agree with The Magistrate's and other's theory about the political reasons behind this little drama. I think the Ron Paul/Rand Paul connection is suspicious--at best--and I think this whole exercise makes Karl Rove's dirty tricks look like beanball.

I didn't start out believing that, but the more I see, the more I feel that way.

Snowden, et. al. could give a flying fuck about We, The People. Don't tell me a guy who was standing with Grover Norquist on an issue like Social Security gives a good goddamn about truth, justice and the American Way. Just the fact that he ran to CHINA tells us all he doesn't really care about personal freedom, either.

I hope he's enjoying Mother Russia. He's not in Moscow, now--they've moved him. It would serve him right if he's in some cowflap shithole with no cable tv. He can work on his Russian language skills, I think he'll need them.

[The Stranger]

107. He couldn't have been that stuipd (could he?)

He had to know that they would sweep him for anything that even closely resembled a contact or a stored file or database.

He HAD TO KNOW that they would take everything he had.

Greenwald MUST HAVE KNOWN that he could instead plant false leads in the phone and computers to throw off anyone trying use it.

Right?

[MADem]

110. I am starting to get the feeling that GG isn't as clever as people think he is.

I don't think he's ten steps ahead of anyone. I think he's having trouble keeping up with himself.

[msanthrope]

18. Greenwald could not have been so stupid right? I mean there's no way

he was stupid enough to try to actually send anything through his partner right?

[MADem]

20. He might not be as clever as he thinks he is. Hard to know.

How long are these encryption keys? Are they "memorizable?"

Maybe the partner memorized the thing...?

He had to know that, by visiting someone who has been in contact with Snowden, the documentarian who is filming him for that Big Money movie, he'd find himself on the radar of any/every agency that Snowden has called out as a Bad Guy.

The smart person who is in that kind of situation doesn't travel with a whole lotta junk. I know when I was getting "the treatment" from DHS/TSA during the Bush years, I took to sending my stuff ahead via a parcel service, and traveling with a single change of clothes and a toothbrush. It saved me the unceremonious tossing of my bags, and I didn't have to haul stuff through airports.

It will be interesting to see how much travelling he does in future..! That will be the litmus test, I suspect.

[msanthrope]

36. Either he was amazingly stupid, or this was a setup by Greenwald: I noted that Miranda was

carrying game consoles and DVDs. Why if not to attract attention?

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. There's this thing called "leisure"

Some people devote some of their time to it. For instance, if they expect a wait at an airport, they might take a games console with them so that they can play a game. Or they take DVDs with them to watch (if they have a player with them), or they watch them while they're away.

[msanthrope]

53. Yeah--because Berlin is so boring that you need a laptop, cell phone, game consoles, and DVDs to

play? Along with the thumbdrives and other stuff?

Please.

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. Heathrow is boring, and a games console would be a good accessory to have

They make portable ones, you know.

I wasn't aware that Berlin was a city so exciting that people in it never have the desire to see a movie.

It seems to be news to you that a lot of people take their cellphone with them wherever they go. It's quite the thing with the younger generation.

Now that you've picked up you jaw off the floor, I'll reveal many people also travel with a laptop. Maybe to relieve boredom, maybe to do some work. You were aware that computers could be used for things like writing, weren't you? And that thumbdrives are used by people for a variety of purposes, not just the relief of boredom?

[msanthrope]

57. Multiple game consoles, on a trip paid for by the Guardian. Hm...let's see..if I have this right,

you can communicate with others over those consoles, right?

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. You can communicate with people over a cellphone too

Heck, I can communicate with you via DU. I'm beginning to wonder why the hell I bother, though. You don't make any sense.

[idwiyo]

66. I wish I could explain to you how ridiculously silly your CT is. It's like Moon Landing, EU is Going

to Take Over US, AND Vaccines Cause Autism rolled all in one with a heaping dose of Chemtrails mixed in for good measure!

Really, it's THAT silly.

[KittyWampus]

71. If you could only grasp how stupid it is to consider Greenwald & Assange as anything other than

libertarians with an agenda to damage the Democratic Party to advance the rightwing.

[idwiyo]

76. WOW, another CT! Do tell more! I am sure you can get Them Furriners Hate Us For Our Freedoms

into it somehow. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE go for it!

[idwiyo]

59. ...

Obviously Mr Miranda should have asked for your opinion on what is and isn't boring. And your CT theory is confirmed by the fact that Mr Miranda had a USB stick with him. Or more then one! Because sensible adults just don't carry that stuff around! EVER!!!

[jberryhill]

77. The plane trip to Rio is no bus ride

I've had more 15 plus hour flights in coach than I care for. You can lose your mind without a distraction. Lots of people take DVD players which are also game consoles, or they have whatever those gameboy like things have morphed into these days. It beats the heck out of those retro 16 bit Nintendo like games they have on the entertainment units. (Although using a seat number as a username in some of the multiplayer ones is amusing)

[Ash_F]

79. Wow the inquisition never ceases.

You should stop for a second and reread what you just wrote there. Try to look at it as if someone else wrote it and you are an observer.

[idwiyo]

52. This is the silliest CT I have seen so far! Thank you for the laugh! Priceless!

Why indeed would ANYONE carry a GAME CONSOLE with them on international long distance flight! I mean Nintendo DS3 or Sony Vita ARE NOT DESIGNED TO CARRY AROUND!11!!1!1 It must be a conspiracy! YAY!!! Never mind DVD(s)! NO ONE EVER watched a film inflight on a laptop, EVER! It's just not done!!!

[msanthrope]

54. Let me see if I have this right--laptop, phone, game consoles (more than one, according to

Greenwald) and DVDs were needed to amuse this poor soul? Jeez....

Don't game consoles store chats?

[idwiyo]

56. OMG! Laptop, game consoles AND DVDs! NO WAY! CONSPIRACY I tell you, CONSPIRACY!11!!1

Can you just imagine ANYONE who might want to play Mario 3D AND Little Big Planet! NO WAY! NEVER DONE! AND WATCH A MOVIE!!! WTF!! What the hell for? Why would someone want to do that?????! AND No one EVER has laptop with them!!!

AND THEM GAME CONSOLES STORE CHATS!!!!! THAT'S like CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY and Greenwald DEFINITELY organised that!!!!



Your CT theory is getting better by the minute! Please, don't stop, I am having such a great time reading your posts! Please, keep going!

[msanthrope]

58. The trip was paid for by the Guardian, according to Greenwald. I suspect that Mr. Miranda

was muling info. Not so clever.

[idwiyo]

60. You SUSPECT therefore IT IS! There! Because game consoles 'n shit! And memory sticks!

PLEASE, PLEASE don't stop here! I am having too much fun reading your CT getting sillier and sillier with every post you write!

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Games consoles are the new boxes in the garage (nt)

[idwiyo]

64. Don't forget MEMORY STICKS! They are the balerinas!!! I am laughing so hard my tummy is hurting.

Best entertainment I had in ages.

[KittyWampus]

72. And anyone who falls for Greewald & Assange's bullshit are the new Naderites.

[idwiyo]

78. Do they also SIKRETLY plotting to sell Earth to little green man from

planet WOO WOO as pets? Please, do try harder! Don't forget to mention Boxes In The Garage & China, just for shits and giggles.

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. Information is the biggest danger to the world, and should be banned

Thankfully, your posts are doing a great job at communicating no information at all. Well done, citizen.

[kardonb]

25. uep

its so much fun to throw around unsubstantiated theories , as long as you don't know FACTS !

[MADem]

26. Why are you getting so UPSET? Do you have any FACTS to add? Stop griping, and ADD them, then!

You do know this is a DISCUSSION board, don't you?

The idea is to exchange theories, to discuss current events.

Good grief, if we did it your way, this would become a bulletin board for the posting of articles only, without commentary. Get over yourself.

[SoapBox]

37. Ditto!

"its so much fun to throw around unsubstantiated theories , as long as you don't know FACTS !"

The Tin-Foil-Three-Cornered-Hat-Musket-Carrying crowd here at DU is having a wild time with all the "theory"! It's Hilarious!!!

Just for them...

BOO!

[MADem]

103. OOPS....turns out GG admitted he was a courier.

Still finding it "hilarious?" Or are the claims of the principal in this game of thumb drives "unsubstantiated theories?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/world/europe/britain-detains-partner-of-reporter-tied-to-leaks.html?_r=0

Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media — including video games, DVDs and data storage devices — and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said.

http://theweek.com/article/index/248385/the-miranda-mess

"Because: journalism" is not a sufficient response. I don't like how the Guardian put Miranda on its payroll, turning him into a courier of sorts and conferring on him the patina of the legal and traditional protections afforded to journalists. That's sloppy tradecraft and it's cruel to Miranda. Doing journalism makes you a journalist. As Joshua Foust points out, the transitive property does not apply. (I am not a corporate strategy consultant, and I would not be one if my spouse's company suddenly paid for me to fly stolen documents to my husband somewhere.)

So much for those "unsubstantiated theories."

See, if it barks, it's usually a dog. If it meows, it's bound to be a cat.

Not rocket science.

[leveymg]

6. I can guarantee you that it was also an unsubtle effort to recruit him.

They probably started with some hinted carrot before proceeding to the sticks for six hours.

[cui bono]

9. I think you're right. But the message was to everyone, not just GG.

Do they have to have a reason to confiscate an innocent person's belongings or has that all gone by the wayside since 9/11?

[jtuck004]

14. The innocent person is now extinct. n/t

[plug3]

41. Yeah...how else will we know for ABSOLUTE CERTAIN?

What a pathetic failure of a myth some of us bought into. A LOT of us.

[The Stranger]

108. They HAD to have known his electronics would be swept up.

They MUST have known to plant dummy leads and false files in these electronics.

They COULDN'T have been stupid enough to have real information on him.

[JimDandy]

115. That's certainly reasonable speculation

given that, previous to this event, David's laptop was stolen from their home 2 days after Greenwald said over the phone (tapped line?) that he was going to download an encryption key to that laptop. Would be an interesting way to definitively expose to the public the unsavory lengths 2 allied governments are going to in order to intimidate journalists.

[pscot]

3. Harrassment and theft

And for the people who did this, it's just another day at the office. Evil is integrated into daily life; becomes banal; is shrugged off as just something they have to do for a living.

[Swagman]

31. "the banality of evil" : Hannah Arend's books have shown many times

how easy it is to let evil flourish as it did in Nazi Germany.

Even on DU there are members who perpetuate the gradual banality of building an evil state.

[pscot]

34. The Milgram 37

[n2doc]

7. The global Gestapo is getting bolder n/t

[GliderGuider]

22. That has the cadence of the old roadside Burma Shave signs...

The Global Gestapo's
Getting Bolder.
You're Not About
To Get
Much Older!

Burma Shave

[KoKo]

28. lols...a good one! n/t

[Little Star]

101. Yep

[closeupready]

8. It's frightening to think about the lengths

to which some individuals who profit from the surveillance infrastructure/government contracts will go in order to chill free speech and those who advocate in favor of democratic transparency. This action simply reinforces my view that corruption of our government today is awesome (in a bad way) and scary. K&R

[Lonr]

11. Personally

to me, this has the opposite effect. Rather than being frightened by actions like these, I find myself even MORE infuriated than I was already!!!!

[nradisic]

10. we have become the world's Gestapo

McCarthy lives...unfuckingbelivable!

[MADem]

17. Are you British?

Because they're the "we" that grabbed that guy.

[Kelvin Mace]

90. MI5 generally doesn't scratct its ass

with checking with the CIA first. There is a reason we called Blair Bush's lapdog (and now Cameron is Obama's).

[MADem]

92. I don't think that is accurate. I think our interests converge often, but your characterization

is a bit of a stretch.

UK is always going to put UK first.

[Kelvin Mace]

97. The UK Secret Services are so scandal-ridden,

so compromised that the US intelligence community views them as a joke. But they can be relied upon to do our bidding in their constant attempt to curry favor and get back in "our good graces". The fact that the US intelligence community is just as scandal-ridden and just as much a joke is never brought up because we have so much "off the books" money (black budgets that never have to be accounted for) that we can fund every has-been empire's spook parade.

While the various foreign agencies can and do look out for their own interests, when Langley's Spook Central wants something, they get it. Even Mossad caters to the US because of the amount of money Washington pours into Israel (though of all the agencies, Israel's intelligence community looks out for themselves most and will cross Washington when they want to).

This incidents was either on direct instructions of the U.S., or possibly, the UK trying to score brownie points.

Of course, it also serves as an example to their own whistle-blowers.

[MADem]

98. We don't know what Snowden took. US intel does, and maybe UK as well.

Without getting into too much detail, there are aspects where our two nations' intel goals converge that aren't in the humint sphere. Thus, the UK has an interest in resolving Snowden's leaking for their own reasons, with or without USA.

I'm not satisfied that they didn't act on their own, without carrots or sticks.

[JaneyVee]

13. This is ridiculous overreach, but why does Glenn feel the need to smear the US

In the article? This happened in the UK, why can't it ever be JUST the UK's fault without lumping the US in there as well.

[cui bono]

15. Do you think the UK just did this on their own? n/t

[JaneyVee]

21. Not sure, but I do know a journalist should use factual evidence before jumping to

Conclusions and speculation.

[deurbano]

23. Where does Greenwald smear the US in this article?

Greenwald has previously had plenty to say about the culpability of the US government... and I'm sure he will have plenty to say about it in the future. I'm even fairly certain he assumes (as I do) that this action by the UK (our government's staunch ally in surveillance) was undertaken with US knowledge, if not at its direction. But in Greenwald's statement in this article, he is explicitly blaming the UK.

<< Miranda was released, but officials confiscated electronics equipment including his mobile phone, laptop, camera, memory sticks, DVDs and games consoles.

Since 5 June, Greenwald has written a series of stories revealing the NSA's electronic surveillance programmes, detailed in thousands of files passed to him by whistleblower Edward Snowden. The Guardian has also published a number of stories about blanket electronic surveillance by Britain's GCHQ, also based on documents from Snowden.

While in Berlin, Miranda had visited Laura Poitras, the US film-maker who has also been working on the Snowden files with Greenwald and the Guardian.

"This is a profound attack on press freedoms and the news gathering process," Greenwald said. "To detain my partner for a full nine hours while denying him a lawyer, and then seize large amounts of his possessions, is clearly intended to send a message of intimidation to those of us who have been reporting on the NSA and GCHQ. The actions of the UK pose a serious threat to journalists everywhere.

"But the last thing it will do is intimidate or deter us in any way from doing our job as journalists. Quite the contrary: it will only embolden us more to continue to report aggressively.">>

[mimi85]

39. Glenn can't stand

not being the center of attention. And it's always all about him and he's always right. He has to be one of the most narcissistic people I've ever seen or heard. Of course, he wanted this to happen so he can bitch some more. What a boorish prig!

[dawn frenzy adams]

45. Yep.

And those who trust him (Manning Assange Snowden) and now his boyfriend, are sequestered, jailed and detailed.

[burnodo]

27. Are you serious?

Oy fucking vey!

[JaneyVee]

121. Why bring the US into the article, it happened in the UK.

[Swagman]

32. tell your government to keep it's fucking nose

out my business and the rest of the world's.

Then come back and ask silly questions.

[JaneyVee]

120. Fuck off.

[cosmicone]

19. He could have gone to Rio on Emirates via Dubai

why did he choose British Airways?

I don't fly the Western airlines anymore unless I have to.

PS: Emirates has far far better service and facilities than BA, AF or LH

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. Berlin to Dubai is not exactly on the way to Rio

Dubai is actually further from Rio than Berlin is.

[cosmicone]

46. Nor is London.

Look at the great circle maps.

The only places sort of on the way would be Barcelona and Dakar.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. Look up Berlin to Rio flights

The fastest ones go through London, Amsterdam or Paris. They are roughly on the route, and they are major airports from which major airlines serve many countries, so act as useful hubs.

[cosmicone]

67. I don't disagree

and I fly through LHR, LGW, CDG and AMS all the time.

However, if one's possessions are wanted by the US, why go through those airports?

BER to DXB (Dubai) is a 4 hr flight and DXB to GIG (Rio) is no longer than LHR to GIG.

I fly from Eastern Europe to San Francisco many times and I always fly Emirates even though it is technically going in the opposite direction. Far far better service and connections.

[JackRiddler]

33. So really it's his fault?

[cosmicone]

44. No, no, no

That's not what I am saying.

[Yo_Mama]

24. Doomed to backfire

As a way to convince the average person that the surveillance state is nothing to worry about, this has got to rank near the bottom of all possible tactics.

[Doctor_J]

30. Uh-oh. The BOG will be here soon to tell us how this is a good thing

and completely justified.

[JackRiddler]

35. Now, who says this is anything other than a coincidence?

Remember this: "Can you PROVE those European countries refused their airspace to President Morales?"

Can you PROVE this 9-hour detainment had anything to do with Greenwald or Greenwald's work or Greenwald's work with Snowden?!

Maybe his girlfriend pole dances, etc. (What do you mean, he's gay?)

[SoapBox]

38. Thank you!

Facts do get in the way, when we find out about them, don't they!?!

I fully agree with you...let those Die-Hard Greenwalders show us the PROOF of all their theory.

[plug3]

42. So, what do you think?

That GG set this all up to play the victim and expose US thuggery?

[Doctor_J]

43. That seems to be the way the pro-spying folk are leaning upthread

Of course that would make GG better at 12-D chess than the Master.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Check out the GD thread on it

They really are saying it's good, and justified - apart from when they're claiming it didn't happen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3483352

[Doctor_J]

65. Wow. That's pretty far out there

Whisp is simultaneously claiming that

1. It didn't happen, and
2. It did happen, and Greenwald set it all up

[KittyWampus]

74. Well, since your little clique is ever present telling us Greenwald and Assange really just want

what is best for the Left in the USA. LOL!

[idwiyo]

80. Thanks to you, we now know its all about SIKRET PLOT by Assange & Greewald to install a Libertarian

Government in US.

[Catherina]

40. WTF. They're totally out of control. n/t

[idwiyo]

49. Fuking despeakable pigs. They sure are desperate if they resolve to this kind of intimidation.

My sincere apologies to Mr Miranda.

[go west young man]

68. England...the 52nd state.

Israel comes in 53rd.

[NoodleyAppendage]

69. Looking for materials with which to blackmail Greenwald or destroy his image...

...not to mention that they have now made Greenwald's sexual orientation news.

[uhnope]

82. Miranda was trafficking stolen docs for Greenwald, NY Times says

Mules don't usually get off so easy, he should be glad
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/world/europe/britain-detains-partner-of-reporter-tied-to-leaks.html

[reusrename]

83. If that's true, then the stop under schedule 7 of the 2000 Terrorism Act was not proper.

Or so it would seem to any rational human being who opposes full-frontal fascism.

3.1.1. The powers to stop and search under section 47A represent a significant
divergence from the usual requirement to have reasonable suspicion when exercising stop
and search powers. The powers are therefore only exercisable in an area where and during
a period when an authorisation has been given by a senior officer. The test for authorising
section 47A powers is that the person giving it: must reasonably suspect that an act of
terrorism will take place and considers that the powers are necessary to prevent such an
act and that the area(s) or place(s) specified in the authorisation are no greater than is
necessary and the duration of the authorisation is no longer than is necessary to prevent
such an act.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/97941/code-of-practice.pdf

Of course, those who support fascism will not have any problem with twisting the law into another pretzel.

[uhnope]

109. Those who cry fascism at every impropriety make it tougher

to actually fight fascism.

There were obviously reasons to detain him if he is trafficking in stolen documents even though keeping him a few extra hours under the terrorism provision was, as you say, not proper.

[reusrename]

111. Do you have any personal interest in fighting fascism?

You've made me curious. What do you think the phrase "actually fight fascism" means? What does it mean to you?

I'm afraid from your admonishment to me that you might think there's some particular impropriety that, once it has been openly committed, will be a signal to you that fascism has arrived. Is that it, or am I wrong?

I have my own view on this, which I'm always willing to share, but I am sincerely curious about your view.

[uhnope]

112. do share

I would say no, there's nothing that I have in mind that would indicate fascism has arrived. Put it this way--the things that start to fall under the rubric of fascism are worse that "improprieties". In some ways, someone who fell asleep in 1978 and woke up in 2013 might look at the militarized police, the prison population, the war on drugs, the presidential election of 2000 and things like that and say fascism has arrived. Of course, in other ways our society has become freer. So let me know what you're thinking.

[reusrename]

113. You seem to have a similar take on this as what I do.

You hit a few of the high points, and your notion about someone falling asleep in the 70's is spot-on.

Add to your list the theft of millions of homes from law-abiding citizens without a singe criminal charge being brought against the thieves. In my state the banks were even caught red-handed forging documents from the court clerks, with many sheriff deputies finally seeing the light and realizing that all those folks they threw out who claimed they had no idea they were being foreclosed on, well, they were telling the truth after all and the banks were the real liars.

Also, the privatization of the military. The privatization of the security agencies. The privatization of public education.

I'm sure it would shock someone to wake up here from the 70's, and the biggest shock might be the recognition that the US had moved from a manufacturing-based economy to a fraud-based economy. Why wait around for compounded interest and inflation and depreciation if fraud has become an acceptable method for growing wealth? They have managed to socialize the risk while privatizing the profits, to boot.

There's a more detailed look at the FBI doing nothing while the banks flout the law in another thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023488988

Oh yeah, and our own Supreme Court justices have declared that bribery and fraud are each legally protected activities under the freedom of speech provisions of the Bill of Rights.

If we're not there yet we're well on our way. It's definitely way past time to start fighting.

[uhnope]

114. yes, we could both compile long lists, I'm sure.

But don't forget that someone waking up in 2013 from 1978, let's say a gay African American who didn't have health insurance and couldn't get married before, might think he was waking up in heaven.

Can you link to info about "Supreme Court justices have declared that bribery and fraud are each legally protected activities under the freedom of speech provisions of the Bill of Rights"? thanks

[Hissyspit]

85. "Mules"

[dipsydoodle]

84. Detention of Guardian journalist's partner 'extraordinary', says Keith Vaz

The chairman of the home affairs select committee has said he will write to police after the partner of the Guardian journalist who has written a series of stories revealing mass surveillance programmes by the US National Security Agency was held by UK authorities as he passed through London's Heathrow airport on his way home to Rio de Janeiro.

>

"It is an extraordinary twist to a very complicated story," Vaz told BBC Radio 4's Today programme on Monday. "Of course it is right that the police and security services should question people if they have concerns or the basis of any concerns about what they are doing in the United Kingdom. What needs to happen pretty rapidly is we need to establish the full facts – now you have a complaint from Mr Greenwald and the Brazilian government. They indeed have said they are concerned at the use of terrorism legislation for something that does not appear to relate to terrorism, so it needs to be clarified, and clarified quickly."

Vaz said he was not aware that personal property could be confiscated under the laws. "What is extraordinary is they knew he was the partner [of Greenwald] and therefore it is clear not only people who are directly involved are being sought but also the partners of those involved," he said. "Bearing in mind it is a new use of terrorism legislation to detain someone in these circumstances [...] I'm certainly interested in knowing, so I will write to the police to ask for the justification of the use of terrorism legislation – they may have a perfectly reasonable explanation. But if we are going to use the act in this way ... then at least we need to know so everyone is prepared."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/19/detention-david-miranda-keith-vaz-glenn-greenwald

[Little Star]

102. ...

[6000eliot]

86. Does this guy have a fucking publicist? He's CONSTANTLY in the news.

[Bragi]

88. The surveillance state fanclub here is disconcerting

It seems as though it doesn't matter how much NSA or counter-terrorism lawlessness is revealed, there remains a strong and dedicated fan base at DU cheering for the surveillance state and everything that goes with it.

As a longtime DUer, this is quite surprising to me, and disconcerting.

[Ash_F]

94. They think this stuff will be used against Islamic terrorists

Arabs are unpopular on DU these days. It really is that simple.

I somewhat understand it, considering the hyper-conservative state of the the Arab world today. But people don't seem get that this system is exclusively in control of the Right Wing of the American government, with the CIA, NSA, DNI and FISA mostly staffed with Republican leadership.

They need to understand this power will be used against progressive reformists more than anything. As it was during the Red Scare. As it was during the civil rights movement.

Also maybe they have reached an age where they think there has been enough reform.

[Bragi]

95. That's certainly a factor

It's pretty obvious that a great many Americans have agreed to give up their civil liberties in exchange for the promise of security against "the unknown". I just would not have expected so many of them to be here, or for those that are here to be so unbalanced in their support of the new security/surveillance state that they would applaud detaining the partner (!) of a journalist whose major crime has been to reveal lawbreaking by the security/surveillance state.

[Ash_F]

96. Motivating drivers are not that nuanced, typically.

Although the mental gymnastics to justify them can get pretty wordy. One must separate justification from motivation.

Once someone perceives some group as an existential threat, they are totally pliable if they think something can stop that threat for them.

"Get those commies!" Red Scare-Korea-Vietnam
"Get those Blacks" civil rights blockage-Jim Crow
"Get those Arabs" Iraq-Afghanistan-Patriot Act

Everything above had really tangled justifications, but it is too embarrassing to just come out and say it. It really is not that complicated and the rest of America should not tear out their hair trying to find some higher reasoning.

[The Stranger]

119. Islamic Terrorists?

That's a good one.

This should be required viewing on this site (here's just part 1 of 3):

http://dotsub.com/view/2019dcbc-330c-4edb-a463-39a63492f65b

[Doctor_J]

116. Nah, they're just Obama fans

Since Greenwald & Snowden revealed that the president continued his predecessor's habit of surveiling Americans at will, they're on board with that. They're also in favor of anything bad that happens to Greenwald, Snowden, their families and friends, and anyone who supports what they did. It is indeed disconcerting, but they don't favor Big Brother per se.