Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:38 AM Aug 2013

Bradley Manning says he wants to live as a woman named Chelsea, begin hormone therapy.

Source: Washington Post

FORT MEADE, Md. — Bradley Manning plans to live as a woman named Chelsea and wants to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible, the soldier said Thursday, a day after being sentenced to 35 years in prison for sending classified material to WikiLeaks.

Manning announced the decision in a written statement provided to NBC’s “Today” show, asking supporters to refer to him by his new name and the feminine pronoun. The statement was signed “Chelsea E. Manning.”

“As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible,” the statement read.

Manning’s defense attorney David Coombs told “Today” in an interview that he is hoping officials at the military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kan., will accommodate Manning’s request for hormone therapy.

Read more: Linkhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/national/bradley-manning-attorney-plans-new-tactics-in-fight-to-free-him-including-presidential-pardon/2013/08/22/a3739566-0b02-11e3-89fe-abb4a5067014_story.html to source

165 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bradley Manning says he wants to live as a woman named Chelsea, begin hormone therapy. (Original Post) oberliner Aug 2013 OP
". . . the pursuit of happiness." another_liberal Aug 2013 #1
I thought this was from the Onion. TheCowsCameHome Aug 2013 #2
That was my first thought as well. nt avebury Aug 2013 #10
I was really hoping it was NoMoreWarNow Aug 2013 #11
While I support her decision on this Hayabusa Aug 2013 #15
Agreed. Sadly. Myrina Aug 2013 #20
Yep, agree so much, the timing is really bad. n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #29
It is clear that Manning has been on the end of some very poor advice. grantcart Aug 2013 #39
SHE & HER are the proper pronouns when talking about a woman. I am sure you know that. idwiyo Aug 2013 #134
good catch thanks for bringing it to my attention. grantcart Aug 2013 #152
Not New 4Q2u2 Aug 2013 #42
I understand what prompts your concern but she can't control the timing, it's not a choice Catherina Aug 2013 #67
It's not as though it was a secret. And the proper pronoun to use is she. Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #71
Will Manning be in a women's prison? ... Wernothelpless Aug 2013 #3
I'm pretty sure Manning's "transition" will have to wait until parole Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #6
HER transition. Please, edit your post. idwiyo Aug 2013 #122
No, unless he gets to post-op davidn3600 Aug 2013 #7
But who pays for medical care? djg21 Aug 2013 #55
we the taxpayers pay for everything our Gov does or contacts for. Including heathcare, therapy, Sunlei Aug 2013 #66
"Hormone treatment is a part of the therapy and Manning has a right to it." Not according to the cstanleytech Aug 2013 #95
not the surgery, the medication. The military can't discriminate anymore. Sunlei Aug 2013 #103
Considering he is male atm though they will probably cstanleytech Aug 2013 #109
She is a female, not male. Below is a link to the article from WHO with some basic info. idwiyo Aug 2013 #126
Far as the military is concerned he is a he, what "he" does after he serves his sentence cstanleytech Aug 2013 #135
What military believes has nothing to do with how one should address Chelsea. She is a woman, idwiyo Aug 2013 #137
I am explaining what I believe the military is probably going to do idwiyo cstanleytech Aug 2013 #145
Sorry if I misunderstood you. idwiyo Aug 2013 #146
That changed just last year in Federal Prisons Catherina Aug 2013 #74
SHE is a proper pronoun to use when one talks about a woman. Unless one is a transphobic bigot. idwiyo Aug 2013 #124
I work as a nurse in a county jail not far from Leavenworth Kansas Seedersandleechers Aug 2013 #52
The US Disciplinary Barracks (where Manning is going) is for male prisoners only jmowreader Aug 2013 #106
A mixed-up young man tabasco Aug 2013 #4
Bullshit. n/t loudsue Aug 2013 #5
Thank-you! robinlynne Aug 2013 #32
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #35
So he should have kept quiet and let the war criminals continue their fun and games unimpeded? RC Aug 2013 #8
Oh well, I better change my opinion based on what the mob wants! tabasco Aug 2013 #46
Or expose domestic law breakers in our government. RC Aug 2013 #47
And which lawbreakers are those? Surely you don't mean our president. Pterodactyl Aug 2013 #130
Do war crimes count, or not? RC Aug 2013 #136
I like how you called him "the Obama". Pterodactyl Aug 2013 #147
That was a typo I didn't catch, from rewording the sentence. RC Aug 2013 #163
why would you do that? you don't change your opinion to what he says about his gender CreekDog Aug 2013 #144
Bad decisions??? .... truth2power Aug 2013 #9
The choice of name seems like a bad decision to me customerserviceguy Aug 2013 #157
unlike the soldiers in the Apache helicopter Enrique Aug 2013 #13
WikiLeaks Reveals That Military Contractors Have Not Lost Their Taste For Child Prostitutes Ash_F Aug 2013 #30
Thank you for posting this. idwiyo Aug 2013 #127
Bullshit Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #34
But if he had gone to Iraq and strafed a bunch of children from an Apache Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #40
And that's a very biased account of the situation. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #82
What do you mean by "mixed up"? morningfog Aug 2013 #101
It's very likely that someone who was just sentenced to 35 years in prison tabasco Aug 2013 #114
You think stress causes gender identity? morningfog Aug 2013 #116
Try to keep up ... GeorgeGist Aug 2013 #117
Below is a link to info about Gender Identity Disorder. I hope you read it and apologise for your idwiyo Aug 2013 #128
I think you are the one who is mixed up Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #107
Did you see the poster predict a renouncement? morningfog Aug 2013 #123
I missed that, but wow. Just wow. Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #125
A bigot or ignorant? oberliner Aug 2013 #129
Someone who is ignorant can be taught and can learn. Jamastiene Aug 2013 #151
Projection? donheld Aug 2013 #149
Does any know if military prisons are required to provide gender reassignment treatment to mulsh Aug 2013 #12
According to the new reports this am and comments for her lawyer maddezmom Aug 2013 #16
No, they're not. dgibby Aug 2013 #17
Veterans Admin does provide HRT for retired sgsmith Aug 2013 #23
Manning is being dishonorably discharged. totodeinhere Aug 2013 #24
Good question. At the very least I suspect that there will be powerful forces totodeinhere Aug 2013 #18
Good for her. Ghost Dog Aug 2013 #14
I thought that picture of him they released at the trial was kind of cute. bemildred Aug 2013 #19
Manning is a straight female FreeState Aug 2013 #60
I know that. And I know I have to start calling her "her" too. bemildred Aug 2013 #63
:) It will be a transition for all of us FreeState Aug 2013 #65
I've worked with trans people before, twenty years ago. No problem. bemildred Aug 2013 #68
Interesting... the apologies, sexual reassignment/hormone therapy, many things to discredit Manning salib Aug 2013 #21
Yes. Also, by changing genders, he is threatening to undercut closeupready Aug 2013 #26
Why would he want to name himself after a football club ? dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #22
'cause Mourinho's back? n/t VWolf Aug 2013 #45
Great answer dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #72
Because "Young Boys" isn't quite applicable anymore... Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #162
What is this, Mayberry RFD? closeupready Aug 2013 #25
I wish Manning well and Whisp Aug 2013 #27
Ive seen more bad taste here on DU now than anything from Fox 7962 Aug 2013 #161
And who's paying for this procedure? SummerSnow Aug 2013 #28
What is your point? enlightenment Aug 2013 #31
Yeah, I'd like to know, too theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #36
Hopefully, if his lawyer is successful the US gov't maddezmom Aug 2013 #37
I am. Why should the tax payers pick up the tab? Bacchus4.0 Aug 2013 #38
Hmmm, I don't believe it is a choice any more than being gay is a choice maddezmom Aug 2013 #41
Gay people aren't medically treated for being gay Bacchus4.0 Aug 2013 #43
It is not a choice was my point maddezmom Aug 2013 #44
and my point is if that is who he is then that is who he is Bacchus4.0 Aug 2013 #48
Your disgusting transphobic comments really need to stop now. enlightenment Aug 2013 #54
oh please, get lost Bacchus4.0 Aug 2013 #56
Bull. enlightenment Aug 2013 #57
then since she is a female there is no reason to pursue medical treatment is there? Bacchus4.0 Aug 2013 #59
Bacchus is being purposefully offensive but he does have a point. n/t SylviaD Aug 2013 #69
Which would be what? enlightenment Aug 2013 #70
I was not being purposefully offensive, and I do not believe that reassignment surgery Bacchus4.0 Aug 2013 #89
We agree on the substance of your post, but I can't help thinking you are slyly baiting. n/t SylviaD Aug 2013 #105
Agreed, what if a busty woman born in a flat chested body, should the gov't pay for that? bamacrat Aug 2013 #92
agreed, a much better analogy Bacchus4.0 Aug 2013 #96
You honestly don't understand it at all, do you? enlightenment Aug 2013 #102
Bacchus and Bamacrat are basically correct in their point IMO, but they could use more tact. n/t SylviaD Aug 2013 #104
+1 FreeState Aug 2013 #62
A jury let it stand 2-4. Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #73
I alerted it. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2013 #81
This isn't the first time I've seen it. Neoma Aug 2013 #86
Oh please get over your self-rightous name calling DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #153
Can you explain how posting on a anon. message board drives away supporters of LGBT rights?? maddezmom Aug 2013 #158
Sick. Please, forward your alert to Skinner. This is pure bigotry and should never be allowed on DU. idwiyo Aug 2013 #113
I clicked the TOS violation so presumably they will see it. Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #115
Not sure admins will see it if it was allowed to stand. If you have a look at the results of the idwiyo Aug 2013 #119
I wasn't the first to alert. I only received the summary of the results of the original alert Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #120
You are welcome. I hope admins will not let this bigoted BS slide. This is sick beyond beleif. idwiyo Aug 2013 #121
When people are incarcerated it is the moral and legal obligation of the totodeinhere Aug 2013 #88
May be true for civilian life, but not so for military life sgsmith Aug 2013 #90
The military should have no right to override morality. totodeinhere Aug 2013 #98
necessary care absolutely. But many inmates' health would benefit from being freed from prison Bacchus4.0 Aug 2013 #93
True, but not becoming a woman will not kill him. n/t bamacrat Aug 2013 #94
There is a higher threshold than that. Inmates should be given treatment deemed necessary totodeinhere Aug 2013 #97
Agreed, however there are more cases of necessary mental health interaction needed than his. bamacrat Aug 2013 #99
This post is disgusting in its naked bigotry against transgender man and women. Sick. idwiyo Aug 2013 #110
10 hours later. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2013 #132
Because Fed. Courts have ruled denying treatment is torture. Evasporque Aug 2013 #80
Should taxpayers pick up the tab for breast removal? joshcryer Aug 2013 #143
I would rather my tax dollars go to help Chelsea than fly around the Presidents dogs Autumn Aug 2013 #53
Maybe this is a way to avoid the male persecution SCVDem Aug 2013 #33
He should have said he was gay to begin with. RebelOne Aug 2013 #50
Their gender identification questions have been public since Adrian Lamo. joshcryer Aug 2013 #141
Keeping an open mind polynomial Aug 2013 #49
Best wishes to her... Mike Nelson Aug 2013 #51
That one's on the president, not the system RZM Aug 2013 #118
How Will This Be Handled? gussmith Aug 2013 #58
Some of these responses are terribly sad. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2013 #61
+1 n/t FreeState Aug 2013 #64
There is a depressing amount of ignorance being spewed today. Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #75
They will attack anyone or anything to defend this administration U4ikLefty Aug 2013 #85
+1 Catherina Aug 2013 #111
Can't believe the people thinking her gender identification is a bad thing. joshcryer Aug 2013 #140
I wish Manning the best! hrmjustin Aug 2013 #76
I wish her well, and I hope she doesn't have serve her whole sentence. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #77
Same here. On all counts. n/t nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #83
Manning really needs to start thinking about some deal-making. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #78
Manning is not going to make any deals. joshcryer Aug 2013 #139
It ain't done 'til the grand jury sitting in the rocket docket says it's over. msanthrope Aug 2013 #164
Beautiful. jessie04 Aug 2013 #79
Good luck Chelsea. Neoma Aug 2013 #84
Okay............ Dyedinthewoolliberal Aug 2013 #87
This whole story gets weirder by the moment WhoWoodaKnew Aug 2013 #91
How is this story weird? Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #100
I agree. Pterodactyl Aug 2013 #131
Bad timing? When would be better? Nine Aug 2013 #108
Very well said. deurbano Aug 2013 #138
My best wishes to Chelsea. I would also like to apologise to all transgender man and women idwiyo Aug 2013 #112
I support Chelsea Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #133
Kudo's to Wikipedia for diligence on Chelsea Manning's Wikipedia page. joshcryer Aug 2013 #142
Help me out here. In what sense is Manning "a female"? Pterodactyl Aug 2013 #148
legally I don't think so. Niceguy1 Aug 2013 #150
DU is slipping over the edge... people are being called Transphobic for following the law DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #154
tell me about it. Niceguy1 Aug 2013 #155
Some of us think prisoners deserve Medical treatment maddezmom Aug 2013 #159
they broke him pretty well.. Alamuti Lotus Aug 2013 #156
What does this mean exactly? oberliner Aug 2013 #165
I'm happy for her that she has decided to do what is best for herself davidpdx Aug 2013 #160
 

NoMoreWarNow

(1,259 posts)
11. I was really hoping it was
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:36 AM
Aug 2013

this will be totally used to discredit him even more...

You can only imagine the FauxNews assholes reporting this... ugh.

Hayabusa

(2,135 posts)
15. While I support her decision on this
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:41 AM
Aug 2013

this is poor timing in my opinion. It will only be used to discredit her, as you said.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
39. It is clear that Manning has been on the end of some very poor advice.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:34 AM
Aug 2013

Starting with the apparent advice from Assange to download 750,00 files rather than select those that were relevant to his point.

Sadly he will have to bear the burden of it while the others that have profited or used him will not.

A different timing and different wording would have been in Manning's interest.

 

4Q2u2

(1,406 posts)
42. Not New
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:02 PM
Aug 2013



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8963582/Private-Bradley-Manning-wanted-to-call-himself-Breanna-on-Twitter-US-military-court-is-told.html

http://www.queerty.com/bradley-manning-to-transition-to-a-woman-i-am-chelsea-i-am-a-female-20130822/

"Manning’s gender identity disorder had been a central part of her defense, as she had hoped joining the military would in effect “cure” her. Previously, a photo of Manning dressed as a woman that she had sent to her superiors — illustrating what she deemed “my problem” — found its way onto the internet."

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
67. I understand what prompts your concern but she can't control the timing, it's not a choice
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:12 PM
Aug 2013

I'm grateful for Chelsea that it's 2013 and not 1983 when my cousin killed himself during his transition because society was so vicious at the time.

I understand your concerns which I think come more from a fear she'll be attacked but every day she puts this off is intense psychological torture with a high risk of depression and a higher risk of suicide. The timing is only *bad* because it makes her more vulnerable to abuse in a homophobic military environment but where it's *good* is IF they allow her hormone therapy, it will help her be non-depressive and stay balanced.

If Chelsea were in a Federal Prison, she'd be better off because DOJ finally got around to writing some vague legislation for the Prison Rape Elimination Act of Congress passed 10 years ago. It vaguely states that, in order to eliminate prison rape, prison officials need to evaluate each transgender prisoner on a case by case basis and house them appropriately (to reduce prison rape). Their anatomy, pre or post op, and where they are in the transition have nothing to do with it, just their vulnerability to abuse and where they'd be safest. Unfortunately, this act doesn't extend to military prisons.

There's already a very determined and dedicated network in place to push the archaic military prison system for her.

The military has already flat out stated they won't accommodate this, much less hormone therapy and surgery, but they'll provide psychological and psychiatric counseling.

Thankfully her attorney, the LGBTQ network that has been supporting her since the beginning and the ACLU are on it.


Here is what the ACLU had to say this morning. It's only a brief statement for now but expect more.

ACLU statement on Chelsea Manning
Submitted by sosadmin on Thu, 08/22/2013 - 12:33

The following can be attributed to Chase Strangio, staff attorney with the ACLU's Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender Project:

In response to Chelsea Manning's disclosure that she is female, has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and will be seeking hormone therapy as a part of her transition during her incarceration, public statements by military officials that the Army does not provide hormone therapy to treat gender dysphoria raise serious constitutional concerns. Gender dysphoria is a serious medical condition in which a person's gender identify does not correspond to his or her assigned sex at birth, and hormone therapy is part of the accepted standards of care for this condition. Without the necessary treatment, gender dysphoria can cause severe psychological distress, including anxiety and suicide. When the government holds individuals in its custody, it must provide them with medically necessary care.

The official policy of the Federal Bureau of Prisons and most state agencies is to provide medically necessary care for the treatment of gender dysphoria, and courts have consistently found that denying such care to prisoners based on blanket exclusions violates the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution.

http://www.privacysos.org/node/1157


The ACLU, her attorney and her LGBTQ network are already gearing up for a fight because gender reassignment surgery is now available to transgender inmates who did not begin treatment prior to entering federal custody (<<the link is to the prison memo).


Gender reassignment surgery, along with hormones and specialized mental health counseling is now available to transgender inmates who did not begin treatment prior to entering federal custody, The Associated Press reports.

The decision is based on new rules adopted by the U.S. Bureau of Prisons as part of a court settlement for inmate Vanessa Adams, formerly Nicholas Adams, who was diagnosed with gender identity disorder in 2005, and, after being denied treatment, tried to castrate herself with a razor and attempted to and ultimately succeeded in amputating her penis.

A May 31 memo issued to wardens at the nation's 116 federal prisons and made public by gay rights groups states: "current, accepted standards of care" will be applied to inmates who believe they are the wrong gender.

Under the bureau's previous policy, issued in 2005, only federal inmates with a preexisting diagnosis were eligible for transgender-related care, which was limited to treatments that would maintain them "only at the level of change which existed when they were incarcerated."

"The (new) treatment plan may include elements or services that were, or were not, provided prior to incarceration, including, but not limited to: those elements of real life experience consistent with the prison environment, hormone therapy and counseling," the memo from bureau medical director Newton Kendig states.

http://www.thirdage.com/news/surgery-while-in-prison-now-an-option-for-transgender-inmates_10-04-2011


Here's a press release from GLAD about the Sept 2011 policy change.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
71. It's not as though it was a secret. And the proper pronoun to use is she.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:46 PM
Aug 2013

Here's some educational materials for you:
http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

GLAAD's transgender media guide

NAMES, PRONOUN USAGE & DESCRIPTIONS

Always use a transgender person's chosen name. Often transgender people cannot afford a legal name change or are not yet old enough to change their name legally. They should be afforded the same respect for their chosen name as anyone else who lives by a name other than their birth name (e.g., celebrities).

Whenever possible, ask transgender people which pronoun they would like you to use. A person who identifies as a certain gender, whether or not that person has taken hormones or had some form of surgery, should be referred to using the pronouns appropriate for that gender.
 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
7. No, unless he gets to post-op
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:16 AM
Aug 2013

A pre-op transexual is still considered their original gender by the justice system. They dont switch until they have completed gender-reassignment surgery.

 

djg21

(1,803 posts)
55. But who pays for medical care?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:56 PM
Aug 2013

The Eighth Amendment requires that prisoners be provided with adequate medical care. I don't see why the government, or taxpayers, should be required to pay for gender reassignment surgery, or hormone therapy. Manning should be required to wait until he is out of custody after being pardoned, paroled, or maxed out on his sentence.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
66. we the taxpayers pay for everything our Gov does or contacts for. Including heathcare, therapy,
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:10 PM
Aug 2013

mental health therapy (that I think Manning received for years, even before his troubles w/ the feds)Gender reassignment is not just final surgery. Hormone treatment is a part of the therapy and Manning has a right to it.

All the more reason for Obama to parden him with 'time served' . Because if it's a 'for profit' contractor taking 'taxpayer money'...you know any medicine will become a million a day tablet treatment.

cstanleytech

(26,280 posts)
95. "Hormone treatment is a part of the therapy and Manning has a right to it." Not according to the
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:11 PM
Aug 2013

military.
After he is done with his sentence so if he still wants to do the change in 20+/- years from now he will have to pay for it himself assuming he can get the cash together.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
103. not the surgery, the medication. The military can't discriminate anymore.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:23 PM
Aug 2013

won't be 20+ years. right now it's about 7 years with goodtime.

I'm sure a lot of people (me included) who will keep asking for a pardon. I feel he was punished enough, especially with the harsh treatment he got in the beginning.

cstanleytech

(26,280 posts)
109. Considering he is male atm though they will probably
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:06 PM
Aug 2013

say that such hormone treatments are purely elective on his part and refuse to cover it because its not something deemed a medical necessity like say heart surgery and or treatment for cancer would be.

cstanleytech

(26,280 posts)
135. Far as the military is concerned he is a he, what "he" does after he serves his sentence
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:23 PM
Aug 2013

is none of their concern.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
137. What military believes has nothing to do with how one should address Chelsea. She is a woman,
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:35 PM
Aug 2013

she asked to be addressed as such. You for some strange reason keep using male pronouns when talking about her.
Even after you were provided with basic info about Gender and Genetics.
Any reason why other than bigotry and transphobia?

cstanleytech

(26,280 posts)
145. I am explaining what I believe the military is probably going to do idwiyo
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:42 AM
Aug 2013

and why thus its entirely relevant to the case in point.
I may of course be wrong and the military will in time allow the stuff like hormone therapy to go forward but I wouldnt bet any money on it.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
74. That changed just last year in Federal Prisons
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:00 PM
Aug 2013

There's been some Congressional/DOJ progress which unfortunately doesn't seem to apply to military prisons yet. The ACLU and her attorney are going to deal with that disparity. I put a little more information in post 67.

Facilities must screen all individuals at admission and upon transfer to assess their risk of experiencing
or perpetrating abuse, including identifying those who may be at risk because of their transgender
status, gender nonconformity, sexual orientation, or intersex condition. The individual’s own perception
of their vulnerability must also be considered.

...

Housing transgender people


Decisions about where a transgender person, or a person with an intersex condition, is housed must
be made on a case-by-case basis; they cannot be made solely on the basis of a person’s anatomy or
gender assigned at birth. This means that, for example, every transgender woman must be assessed
individually to determine whether she would be best housed with other women instead of in a men’s
facility. An individual’s views regarding their personal safety must be seriously considered.

These decisions must be reassessed at least twice per year to consider changed circumstances such
as incidents of abuse or changes in an individual’s appearance or medical treatment.

All transgender people and people with intersex conditions must be given the opportunity to shower
separately from other inmates if they wish, regardless of where they are housed.

...

http://nicic.gov/Library/026361

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
124. SHE is a proper pronoun to use when one talks about a woman. Unless one is a transphobic bigot.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:29 PM
Aug 2013

Please, edit your post.

Seedersandleechers

(3,044 posts)
52. I work as a nurse in a county jail not far from Leavenworth Kansas
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:52 PM
Aug 2013

Though not a federal prison if an inmate comes into our facility already on hormone therapy - male or female we continue that therapy for the duration of their stay.

jmowreader

(50,552 posts)
106. The US Disciplinary Barracks (where Manning is going) is for male prisoners only
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:51 PM
Aug 2013

Female Defense Department prisoners go to the Naval Consolidated Brig, Miramar, Calif.

Response to loudsue (Reply #5)

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
8. So he should have kept quiet and let the war criminals continue their fun and games unimpeded?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:16 AM
Aug 2013

Most of us around here have a different opinion about that.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
46. Oh well, I better change my opinion based on what the mob wants!
Reply to RC (Reply #8)
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:25 PM
Aug 2013

We must reward our intelligence analysts who give away top-secret documents. Yay!

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
136. Do war crimes count, or not?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:29 PM
Aug 2013

That's not domestic though - yet, that I know of. I am concerned about the people running the NSA's unconstitutional and illegal spying network. General Alexander, Glen Clapper, etc. Also include some the people the Obama has appointed to various agencies. You know, Republicans that served in the bu$h administration.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
144. why would you do that? you don't change your opinion to what he says about his gender
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:32 AM
Aug 2013

at least you're a consistent ignoramus.

truth2power

(8,219 posts)
9. Bad decisions??? ....
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:25 AM
Aug 2013

Yes, of course. He should have kept his effing mouth shut about how we kill journalists and rescuers and children.

Sometimes I don't believe what I read on this site.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
157. The choice of name seems like a bad decision to me
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 07:22 AM
Aug 2013

Especially since Hillary Clinton is already pissed at Manning for embarassing her. This has got to seal it, Manning has no chance of release during any time of a Clinton administration.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
30. WikiLeaks Reveals That Military Contractors Have Not Lost Their Taste For Child Prostitutes
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:50 AM
Aug 2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/wikileaks-reveals-that-mi_n_793816.html

WikiLeaks: Texas Company Helped Pimp Little Boys To Stoned Afghan Cops
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_texas_company_helped.php

FYI its been years since Manning blew that case wide open and still no prosecution for it. Yet Manning is in jail.

Just wanted to make sure you understood what side you were on.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
40. But if he had gone to Iraq and strafed a bunch of children from an Apache
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:35 AM
Aug 2013

You'd probably be calling him a hero and somebody very brave. But expose war crimes and have a sex change? He's one mixed up young man.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
82. And that's a very biased account of the situation.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:42 PM
Aug 2013

For one thing, people undergoing treatment - as Manning is - for gender dysphoria aren't "mixed-up." They know what has to be done to make them happy, whole people, and they're doing it.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
114. It's very likely that someone who was just sentenced to 35 years in prison
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:30 PM
Aug 2013

is under a great deal of stress. Stress, disappointment and grief often cloud a person's judgment. Pronouncements like this immediately following an extremely stressful event are often recanted.

HOPE IT HELPS!

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
116. You think stress causes gender identity?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:07 PM
Aug 2013

Can you give an example of a time that such an announcement was recanted, since it happens often?

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
128. Below is a link to info about Gender Identity Disorder. I hope you read it and apologise for your
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:45 PM
Aug 2013

ignorance after you educate yourself.

Gender and Genetics
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
107. I think you are the one who is mixed up
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:55 PM
Aug 2013

Anyone who thinks being transgendered makes someone "mixed-up" is a bigot.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
125. I missed that, but wow. Just wow.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:32 PM
Aug 2013

The idea that someone would decide to go through a sex change just because they are under stress is just plain absurd.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
151. Someone who is ignorant can be taught and can learn.
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 03:06 AM
Aug 2013

A bigot can be taught and still refuses to learn.

Ignorance is forgivable and workable, actually. Someone who was merely ignorant would take the education being laid out before them and try to learn from it, and maybe even apologize.

Bigotry is not forgivable. Someone who is a bigot refuses to learn, cops an attitude about being taught a little basic info, labels themselves as "the enemy" to the LGBT community and sometimes threatens to withdraw "support" for the community. They usually make numerous rude comments in other threads and sulk for a long time after being partially educated. We see that a lot here on DU.

mulsh

(2,959 posts)
12. Does any know if military prisons are required to provide gender reassignment treatment to
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:37 AM
Aug 2013

prisoners? I've done a couple of searches and can't find any info. I know some inmates in state prisons receive treatment.

maddezmom

(135,060 posts)
16. According to the new reports this am and comments for her lawyer
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:43 AM
Aug 2013

The military is not required to do so. I believe the attorney says he is going to press the issue with the military. Some others have commented that perhaps he could be moved to federal prison where it has been done.

dgibby

(9,474 posts)
17. No, they're not.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:45 AM
Aug 2013

MSNBC just issued a statement that said there will be no hormone therapy provided by the military. I was a Navy nurse for 22 years, never saw a case where the military provided that service to anyone, active duty, retired, or dependent.

 

sgsmith

(398 posts)
23. Veterans Admin does provide HRT for retired
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:02 AM
Aug 2013
http://www.va.gov/vhapublications/ViewPublication.asp?pub_ID=2863


1. PURPOSE: This Veterans Health Administration (VHA) Directive establishes policy
regarding the respectful delivery of health care to transgender and intersex Veterans who are enrolled in the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care system or are otherwise eligible for VA care.
2. BACKGROUND: In accordance with the medical benefits package (title 38 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) section 17.38), VA provides care and treatment to Veterans that is compatible with generally accepted standards of medical practice and determined by appropriate health care professionals to promote, preserve, or restore the health of the individual.
a. VA provides health care for transgender patients, including those who present at various points on their transition from one gender to the next. This applies to all Veterans who are enrolled in VA’s health care system or are otherwise eligible for VA care, including those who have had sex reassignment surgery outside of VHA, those who might be considering such surgical intervention, and those who do not wish to undergo sex reassignment surgery but self identify as transgender. Intersex individuals may or may not have interest in changing gender or in acting in ways that are discordant with their assigned gender.
b. VA does not provide sex reassignment surgery or plastic reconstructive surgery for
strictly cosmetic purposes.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
24. Manning is being dishonorably discharged.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:13 AM
Aug 2013

People who are dishonorably discharged are not considered veterans and are not entitled to veterans' benefits.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
18. Good question. At the very least I suspect that there will be powerful forces
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:46 AM
Aug 2013

trying to stop Manning from getting any such treatment while in a military prison.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
19. I thought that picture of him they released at the trial was kind of cute.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:49 AM
Aug 2013

And I'm straight as they come.

FreeState

(10,570 posts)
60. Manning is a straight female
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:52 PM
Aug 2013

She might have been born a male, but she identifies as a female that is attracted to men.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
63. I know that. And I know I have to start calling her "her" too.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:57 PM
Aug 2013

But it might take a day or two to make it automatic. It's in transition, like she said.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
68. I've worked with trans people before, twenty years ago. No problem.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:16 PM
Aug 2013

I think Mannings coming out like this could have a formative effect on the future, but I fear for "her" too.

salib

(2,116 posts)
21. Interesting... the apologies, sexual reassignment/hormone therapy, many things to discredit Manning
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:53 AM
Aug 2013

Perhaps this is just the PTB impressing upon others what they can do to someone with torture.

Remember, torture is NOT done to obtain information. It is done to change someone's story, or create new ones.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
26. Yes. Also, by changing genders, he is threatening to undercut
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:28 AM
Aug 2013

all the work they've put into demonizing "Bradley".

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
22. Why would he want to name himself after a football club ?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:59 AM
Aug 2013


Don't really see him as one of a their Headhunters.
 

7962

(11,841 posts)
161. Ive seen more bad taste here on DU now than anything from Fox
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 07:58 AM
Aug 2013

Hard to believe with this site being what it is. I read elsewhere on another thread about some rough comments and had to see for myself here.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
38. I am. Why should the tax payers pick up the tab?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:32 AM
Aug 2013

if he wants to live his life as Chelsea instead of Bradley in his mind that's his choice.

maddezmom

(135,060 posts)
41. Hmmm, I don't believe it is a choice any more than being gay is a choice
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:49 AM
Aug 2013

He is some background info:

Why is this the prison's problem?

Doctors who treat transgender people and advocates who lobby on their behalf say that inmates are legally entitled to health care while incarcerated -- including services for gender identity issues.

“Treatment for people with severe gender dysphoria is medically necessary,” said Dr. Sherman Leis of the Philadelphia Center for Transgender Surgery, who performs sex-change operations three days a week.

Just as diabetics need insulin and people with heart problems need surgery, inmates with gender identity-related health problems require the most appropriate treatment, said Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality.

“This is America; we do not deny prisoners health care,” Keisling said. “What happens if they break a leg while they’re in custody? What happens if they develop schizophrenia? It is illegal to withhold those treatments.”

http://t.nbcnews.com/health/beginning-gender-change-prison-long-shot-6C10974050

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
43. Gay people aren't medically treated for being gay
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:03 PM
Aug 2013

if Manning is a woman in a male's body then that is what he is.

maddezmom

(135,060 posts)
44. It is not a choice was my point
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:09 PM
Aug 2013

Did you not read this part?

“Treatment for people with severe gender dysphoria is medically necessary,” said Dr. Sherman Leis of the Philadelphia Center for Transgender Surgery, who performs sex-change operations three days a week.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
48. and my point is if that is who he is then that is who he is
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:28 PM
Aug 2013

and there is no obligation from the US taxpayer to pay for treatment beyond the physical and psychological problems that all of us have or may experience.

If I had a psychological condition where I was believed or felt I was a bunny rabbit, should the government be obliged to make me one?

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
54. Your disgusting transphobic comments really need to stop now.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:56 PM
Aug 2013

You have made it abundantly clear that you believe this is some sort of mental affliction.

Please stop posting this ugliness.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
56. oh please, get lost
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:03 PM
Aug 2013

The tax payer has no responsibility to make Manning appear to be a female. Once he gets out of prison he can undergo the physical procedures of outward transformation at his own expense.

When did I say its a mental affliction? I said if he is a woman in a man's body then that is who he is. I never said he needed to be treated psychologically for that.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
57. Bull.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:12 PM
Aug 2013

Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

In addition to inferring (do look up the word, champ) that Manning suffers from a mental disorder, you have now doubled down with "make Manning appear to be a female".

SHE is female and your comments are disgusting.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
59. then since she is a female there is no reason to pursue medical treatment is there?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:27 PM
Aug 2013

which has been my point the entire time.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
70. Which would be what?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 02:41 PM
Aug 2013

If his only point is that he, as a taxpayer, doesn't want to fund her reassignment surgery then he could say it without being purposefully offensive.

IF that was his point.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
89. I was not being purposefully offensive, and I do not believe that reassignment surgery
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:44 PM
Aug 2013

should be paid by the taxpayer. Ms. Manning will have to remain the person she is for the time being, not the person she wants to be IMO.

bamacrat

(3,867 posts)
92. Agreed, what if a busty woman born in a flat chested body, should the gov't pay for that?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:59 PM
Aug 2013

Or what about a man with a small penis who feels he should have been born hung? You are right that there is nothing wrong with this person being trans or whatever, but the government should not pay for that.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
96. agreed, a much better analogy
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:12 PM
Aug 2013

it is essentially an elective process to transform oneself physically. And frankly, if one believes that you need a physical transformation and/or need to take substances to become what you think you are, then maybe you really aren't that to begin with.
Being satisfied or dissastisfied with how you look isn't the same as being what you are.







enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
102. You honestly don't understand it at all, do you?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:16 PM
Aug 2013

Please educate yourself - or not, as you please - but don't continue trying to defend your position from a perspective of ignorance.

You may not be deliberately trying to look like ugly, but that's the effect.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,868 posts)
81. I alerted it.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:40 PM
Aug 2013

= (

I'm sorry to all the trans people who have to read this offensive nonsense.

I'm also sorry that so many "democrats" think hateful bigoted speech towards you is OK. These last few days have been very telling when it comes to LGBT acceptance on this board.

 

DontTreadOnMe

(2,442 posts)
153. Oh please get over your self-rightous name calling
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:09 AM
Aug 2013

Stating that government tax money should not be used for hormone therapy is not bigoted. The LGBT community is way over the top on this issue. It drives away people who support gay rights.

Do murderers or rapists get hormone therapy?

What about all the people who want lobster in prison?

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
119. Not sure admins will see it if it was allowed to stand. If you have a look at the results of the
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:40 PM
Aug 2013

alert in your inbox (open the message), on the bottom there should be 'alert abuse' option. That would send it directly to admins. I beleive there will be an option for you to explain why you are asking admin to look at it.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
120. I wasn't the first to alert. I only received the summary of the results of the original alert
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:19 PM
Aug 2013

There is an option to alert those results. I'll have to think about how to word it. Thanks for the suggestion!

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
121. You are welcome. I hope admins will not let this bigoted BS slide. This is sick beyond beleif.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:24 PM
Aug 2013

Good luck and thank you for alerting.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
88. When people are incarcerated it is the moral and legal obligation of the
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:38 PM
Aug 2013

government that is doing the incarcerating, in this case the federal government, to provide necessary health care to inmates. If doctors conclude that Manning requires treatment for the sake of his health then it should be paid for just like they would treat him for cancer or anything else.

 

sgsmith

(398 posts)
90. May be true for civilian life, but not so for military life
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:47 PM
Aug 2013

Basically, a civilian could transition, undergoing hormone replacement therapy and gender surgery. If, after transition, the civilian was jailed, the government does become responsible for their health care.

But the military is a strange case, seeing how the military "owns" your body once you enlist. That's one of the precepts that allows them to send a soldier off to war - they own you and do with you what they want.

Ms Manning is still part of the Army, although as a convicted soldier, so the Army's ownership claim is still in place. And the services consider that a physical transition is damaging to their property.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
98. The military should have no right to override morality.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:28 PM
Aug 2013

It is simply immoral and wrong to deny medically necessary treatment whether the military "owns" their enlistees or not. If it is the military's policy to deny treatment then that policy needs to be changed even if it requires a direct order from the commander in chief.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
93. necessary care absolutely. But many inmates' health would benefit from being freed from prison
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:01 PM
Aug 2013

The state is not going to do that, just like they are not going to perform any medical procedure requested by the inmates to satisfy them emotionally.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
97. There is a higher threshold than that. Inmates should be given treatment deemed necessary
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:25 PM
Aug 2013

by a physician in order to maintain good health, not just to keep them alive.

bamacrat

(3,867 posts)
99. Agreed, however there are more cases of necessary mental health interaction needed than his.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:29 PM
Aug 2013

It seems odd that this comes out now (No pun), had the defense used this in some way to show the mental turmoil he may have been going through ok. But there are really mental health issues in our prison system that should be addressed before Bradley is made into a woman. Let his family pay for it if it is that pressing a matter.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,868 posts)
132. 10 hours later.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:55 PM
Aug 2013

And this is still here? I've been forceful with my words before (never racist, homophobic or trans-phobic) and have gotten very prompt very stern messages from moderators. If bigotry is allowed to stand, it's going to send a message to our LGBT members.

Evasporque

(2,133 posts)
80. Because Fed. Courts have ruled denying treatment is torture.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:35 PM
Aug 2013

7th Court of Appeals, Wisconsin anti-trans law struck down. State cannot deny inmates medical treatment, including HRT for trans individuals.

Autumn

(45,044 posts)
53. I would rather my tax dollars go to help Chelsea than fly around the Presidents dogs
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:52 PM
Aug 2013
See how THAT RW slam works?
 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
33. Maybe this is a way to avoid the male persecution
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:06 AM
Aug 2013

and get into a safer womens wing.

Sadly I fear he will be dead shortly after arriving at Leavenworth.

Suicide from abuse or murder.

It's not safe to be in prison in America.

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
50. He should have said he was gay to begin with.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:35 PM
Aug 2013

My son went to jail for a couple of weeks on a misdemeanor. He told the police he was gay so that he wouldn't have to be locked up with male inmates (he wasn't gay). They put him in with the women. I had to go to court at his hearing and he was herded in the women prisoners.

polynomial

(750 posts)
49. Keeping an open mind
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 12:29 PM
Aug 2013

We are children of a universe made through some kind of creation that is fine tuned. Many agree it is a God that exists however, God speed has a different time line than humanity of today. We the people or the person may choose a life style towards that infinity in time. This could be what Manning is doing, considering how the current culture is so screwed up might as well work through that personal dream called a free will.

From my view again a whole lot of courage with a lot of speculation is within this path of life as a transgender. Would it be a simple reward from the divine works of life with expert help in medical technology that Manning could very well have a chance to transform into the Diva many would admire, justice turned around into personal gift by a personal decision.

If the Constitution really works plus if the technology exists a person should be able to make a choice as the new millennium turns, so does humanity. We should be able to ascend in any direction. Just one thing the decider must beware! There are consequences in written or unwritten laws of man and nature that if violated could take on a journey that is not reversible or will not stay within the limits of humanity as we now know it. The risk in undermined. The reward can be unlimited.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
118. That one's on the president, not the system
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:32 PM
Aug 2013

Libby was sentenced to 30 months in prison. He would have had to serve it had Bush not commuted it. But he would have been out by 2010 even if he had done the full term.

 

gussmith

(280 posts)
58. How Will This Be Handled?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:13 PM
Aug 2013

This surely is one courageous person making such a declaration when prison populations are his future.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,868 posts)
61. Some of these responses are terribly sad.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:53 PM
Aug 2013

The amount of Transphobia in this thread is heartbreaking. I knew I shouldn't have clicked this.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
140. Can't believe the people thinking her gender identification is a bad thing.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:59 PM
Aug 2013

Some people even think there's something wrong with it and that it can bring shame or discredit her. There was one OP when her pictures were first released which was just utterly appalled that she would release such pictures, as if it would damage her image. Disgraceful.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
77. I wish her well, and I hope she doesn't have serve her whole sentence.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 03:20 PM
Aug 2013

Her treatment has been absurd, in my opinion.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
139. Manning is not going to make any deals.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:51 PM
Aug 2013

It's done and over with and they seem at peace with how things went down.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
164. It ain't done 'til the grand jury sitting in the rocket docket says it's over.
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 04:26 PM
Aug 2013

If Manning want to get to Butner, there's a pretty quick way to do that.

Dyedinthewoolliberal

(15,563 posts)
87. Okay............
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:38 PM
Aug 2013

just when I thought things couldn't get any stranger............. now this! He's setting himself ( or herself) up for a big time problem if military prison for a prolonged period of time is in the cards. The harassment will be relentless.

Nine

(1,741 posts)
108. Bad timing? When would be better?
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:08 PM
Aug 2013

I don't think I've ever commented on Manning before. Regardless of what anyone thinks about any of the rest of it, I can't quite understand why people on a progressive board seem to be suggesting that Manning should wait even one more day to start living her life as the person she feels she truly is. The trial is over and if she's going to fight to receive hormone therapy, she might as well start now. If I had 8-35 years of imprisonment ahead of me and felt as she does, I would do the same. What else will she have in the years ahead but her own self, her identity, and her body? It's a bleak existence and I wish her all the happiness she can find.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
112. My best wishes to Chelsea. I would also like to apologise to all transgender man and women
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:18 PM
Aug 2013

for ignorance and bigotry of some of the posters here.

Pterodactyl

(1,687 posts)
148. Help me out here. In what sense is Manning "a female"?
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:05 AM
Aug 2013

He has not been on hormones, hasn't had any surgery, has not even had a name change. Is a press release enough to make it official?

Niceguy1

(2,467 posts)
150. legally I don't think so.
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 02:54 AM
Aug 2013

He wouldn't be eligible for hormone treatment while he is in custody because he wasn't taking it when he was first incarcerated.

But he is still eligible for ither considerations as far as the post conviction classification process goes,

 

DontTreadOnMe

(2,442 posts)
154. DU is slipping over the edge... people are being called Transphobic for following the law
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:18 AM
Aug 2013

You can't make demands AFTER you get sentenced to prison, especially in military court.

I am tired of the whiners who think they are above the law.

And how ironic that they call for the "war criminals" to be put in jail... I guess they feel some prisoners deserve special treatment.

Niceguy1

(2,467 posts)
155. tell me about it.
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:33 AM
Aug 2013

Its crazy.... to be labeled as a hater cause you think something shouldn't be provided for free is absurd.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
160. I'm happy for her that she has decided to do what is best for herself
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 07:37 AM
Aug 2013

By no means does that influence how I feel about the case.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Bradley Manning says he w...