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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 07:20 PM Aug 2013

Nato members could act against Syria without UN mandate

Source: Guardian

Barack Obama is unlikely to have much trouble mustering a Nato coalition of the willing if Washington opts for military intervention in Syria in response to the alleged chemical weapons atrocities by the Assad regime.

There is, however, no prospect of a UN mandate for international military action over Syria – with the Kremlin, enraged at what it saw as abuse of a UN mandate to topple Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, certain to keep wielding its veto.

Turkey, which accounts for Nato's second largest army after the US, and which is on the frontline with Syria, bearing the brunt of the massive refugee crisis, is already a key conduit for arms supplies to, and a safe haven for, the sundry groups of fighters at war with Damascus.

It has been the loudest critic of the Assad regime, clamouring for the west to do more. In any international coalition Turkey would be likely to play a key role – with a potential impact on the country's own ethnic balance, especially the relations between the Sunni Muslim majority and the sizeable Alevi minority concentrated in the south near the Syrian border

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/25/syria-un-mandate-nato-military-action

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Nato members could act against Syria without UN mandate (Original Post) dipsydoodle Aug 2013 OP
No Congressional Approval, No UN Mandate, No discussion Catherina Aug 2013 #1
In the case of the UK would also require a vote in parliament dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #3
Desperate and dying empires tend not... Mr_Jefferson_24 Aug 2013 #6
What's with the WWIII video? AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #9
I sincerely hope... Mr_Jefferson_24 Aug 2013 #10
Sorry, Mr. Jeff, but no. Just no. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #11
Sorry, AverageJoe, but... Mr_Jefferson_24 Aug 2013 #18
Yes, I did watch the one you posted. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #21
I think you're having a hard time... Mr_Jefferson_24 Aug 2013 #22
War on Syria: Gateway to WWIII, Free e-Book by Tony Cartalucci & Nile Bowie Snowfield Aug 2013 #16
Read the book.....while there is a little bit of decent information in there..... AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #19
let's face it, if the US wants to blow some shit up, shit will get blown up. KG Aug 2013 #2
Whatever our erstwhile allies agree to do in Syria . . . another_liberal Aug 2013 #4
Why not ? warrant46 Aug 2013 #5
In a presidency riddled with fuck ups this could well become his greatest fuck up of all...... bowens43 Aug 2013 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author CJCRANE Aug 2013 #8
So the Guardian is pre-blaming Obama to take the blame for another decade of war. freshwest Aug 2013 #12
Turkey says will join coalition against Syria even without UN consensus Bosonic Aug 2013 #13
Of course they can act--it's called Aggression Alamuti Lotus Aug 2013 #14
" a Nato coalition of the willing " even the wording is same as Iraq, they dont even pretend anymore Snowfield Aug 2013 #15
USA USA USA !!! warrant46 Aug 2013 #17
George says "Miss me yet?" Old Union Guy Aug 2013 #20
+1 nt fujiyama Aug 2013 #23
2003 called fujiyama Aug 2013 #24

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
3. In the case of the UK would also require a vote in parliament
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 07:32 PM
Aug 2013

which they are talking about recalling to debate the subject now. Hopefully it wouldn't pass. If it did it would at least further ensure that the Conservatives got voted out in our next elections and quite possibly change the political landscape elsewhere as when elections occurred - some should take care of what they wish.

'nuff said.

and goodnight.

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
6. Desperate and dying empires tend not...
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 08:07 PM
Aug 2013

.... to like being hampered by such things as established procedure or the rule of law.

The decision to upend Assad, as with Hussein and Gaddafi, has clearly already been made well in advance of the false flag chemical weapons attack pretext they're going to use as justification.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
9. What's with the WWIII video?
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 08:42 PM
Aug 2013

I'm sorry, but there is no way WWIII is going to break out over Syria.....unless, perhaps, something akin to stuff you'd hear on the Alex Jones Show, etc. was going on behind the scenes first.....which is kinda doubtful.

Also, you do realize that the person who posted this video on YouTube seems to be a bit of a nutjob, right? Just sayin'.

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
10. I sincerely hope...
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 09:33 PM
Aug 2013

... the future shows you to be right about WWIII being an unlikely consequence of US foreign policy. However, I think historical events would tend to suggest you're quite mistaken.

As to your suggestion that the StormCloudsGathering videos are created by someone who seems like a nutjob, I strongly disagree.

Please pay close attention as you view this video and tell me precisely what leads you to say he "seems to be a bit of a nutjob."



 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
11. Sorry, Mr. Jeff, but no. Just no.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 01:08 AM
Aug 2013
However, I think historical events would tend to suggest you're quite mistaken.


Which ones? If you're going to say World War I, forget it. There was no general unawareness that something was coming, outside of maybe the U.S.; tensions had been building up for years and things could very well have gone lopsided as much as a full decade before they did. And if you're going to bring up other Middle East wars, I can tell you that every single one of these wars, with maybe the exception of '48, all had a real chance of turning into WWIII, especially Yom Kippur. But even in this era of constant tension, it never went that far. And now that the Cold War has been over for 20 years now, it's practically next to impossible now, unless a Mussolini or Hitler-like dictator were to take over Russia or something(which isn't likely).

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
18. Sorry, AverageJoe, but...
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 02:29 PM
Aug 2013

... it doesn't sound like you even watched these videos.

Go back to my post #6 and advance to 4:04. An amnesia and/or ignorance of history on the part of the citizenry is in part what makes prosecuting these illegal wars so easy for the PTB.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
21. Yes, I did watch the one you posted.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 09:32 PM
Aug 2013

Admittedly, there was SOME decent info, but mixed with crap.....not to mention the "ingsoc" reference at around 1:15 gave away the schtick.....

Mr_Jefferson_24

(8,559 posts)
22. I think you're having a hard time...
Tue Aug 27, 2013, 12:10 AM
Aug 2013

... accepting the reality of how truly bad things have become and how monstrous and black-hearted the behind-the-scenes PTB who actually control the West really are. I was in denial for a while myself -- to be sure, these are very unsettling and disturbing truths.

In any case, thanks for the exchange AverageJoe, and take care. I'll let you have the last word here.

 

Snowfield

(46 posts)
16. War on Syria: Gateway to WWIII, Free e-Book by Tony Cartalucci & Nile Bowie
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 06:35 AM
Aug 2013
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.se/p/war-on-syria-gateway-to-wwiii.html

November 29, 2012 (LD) - "War on Syria: Gateway to WWIII" (118 pages) attempts to cover the intricacies of the West's methods of unconventional warfare and how they've manifested themselves over the last several years, finally miring Syria in a state of war. The book also looks at how the violence in Syria is just one part of a much larger geopolitical strategy, and where it may lead next.

"War on Syria" is a free e-book for reading, printing, translating, and sharing - your reading and sharing of this book is the greatest payback possible for the time and effort that has been put into it. If Syria cannot be saved, at least let what is happening to this nation serve as a warning and example to others around the world, still pending Western subjugation, regime change, and exploitation at the hands of the largest corporate-financier interests on Earth, and their myriad of institutions, NGOs, media fronts, and contractors.

I want to thank Nile Bowie (NileBowie.blogspot.com), a frequent contributor to the Land Destroyer Report, for his tireless effort and expediency in compiling, adding to, enhancing, and editing this work. I would also like to thank Eric Draitser of StopImperialism.com who also helped edit the work.

Below are several links where you can access the .PDF file. If you have any requests for document hosting sites you would like to see this work appear on, or have problems downloading the book, please contact me at cartalucci@gmail.com.

-Tony Cartalucci


Scribd: (no account necessary to read, but must have Scribd account to download) click here. http://www.scribd.com/doc/114889281/War-on-Syria-Cartalucci-Bowie2


Google Docs: (no account necessary to read, and no account necessary to download) click here. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bzf5hXPESLSdbTd0V2dIY3hvVGM

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
19. Read the book.....while there is a little bit of decent information in there.....
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 09:20 PM
Aug 2013

It is, sadly, a very flawed work filled with mis/dis-information & half-truths, even with the decent stuff in there(for example, they fail to mention the left/secular opposition to Al-Assad).

They also fail to make a distinction between the various factions of the CIA, nor do they adequately address the *confirmed* war crimes that Syria has committed, and Russia's aid of Syrian gov't war criminals

(Strangely, not much seems to be said about any WWIII scenarios, only that of a wider regional war.....which wouldn't count for anything.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
4. Whatever our erstwhile allies agree to do in Syria . . .
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 07:40 PM
Aug 2013

I'll bet you they will still expect the United States to bring most of the hardware, most of the manpower and, especially, most of the cash.

warrant46

(2,205 posts)
5. Why not ?
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 07:46 PM
Aug 2013

When your coalition acts as the worlds policeman most of the time, and the last War is winding down, its time to make more $$$$ for the Industrialists.

Response to bowens43 (Reply #7)

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
12. So the Guardian is pre-blaming Obama to take the blame for another decade of war.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 01:45 AM
Aug 2013

Bonus points for having us play the evil empire when NATO members can do it themselves. And remember, we are still the BAD GUYS to most of them now.

We should stand down from this just like we should not got to war with Iran. But we have Neo-cons like McCain visiting a rebel fanction in Syria, already picking allies, saying he still wants to be president. He knows very well that Russia will never go for it.

But he can sing 'Bomb Iran' again. PNAC and its followers need to stop calling for more wars. He, the 'Christians First' guys like Rand and the End Timers with the Gog and Magog roadshow need to shuffle off the world stage now.

The right and left would jump on this conflict to impeach Obama, just like they did with Libya. The right will play 'wag the dog' like they did to Clinton on Kosovo and the left will call him Bush. But if he sees something that is doable, and believes it is the right thing for the long run, he will.

Also, I'm not saying it's not hell over there. But they don't want us there. We can't make them love each other. The poor people will suffer while the Masters of the Universe get fat. And I don't trust MSM, they were so gungho about Iraq.

NONE of the Syrians want us there. No one but Rand, McCain, Romney and the rest of the Neo-cons wants us in there. Paul has been framing this as a war to save Christians. Really?

Hoping these guys don't pull a stunt to get us into another war. I am ready to be educated on why some think this MUST be done by the USA. Just the humanitarian thing may be enough. But no one will satisfied by it, not Syria, the USA, Middle East or Europe. It would take a generation to come to some kind of conclusion, and I'd hate to see PNAC or the End Timers get their wishes.



Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
13. Turkey says will join coalition against Syria even without UN consensus
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 03:31 AM
Aug 2013

#BREAKING Turkey says will join coalition against Syria even without UN consensus

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/371891501489348608

rolls nearer

 

Alamuti Lotus

(3,093 posts)
14. Of course they can act--it's called Aggression
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 03:53 AM
Aug 2013

none of these rogue states in NATO have any problem with committing acts of aggression in that, or any other, part of the world. There should be consequences for this prevailingly arrogant mindset and behavior, but I know enough about how the world works to not hold my breathe for this.

 

Snowfield

(46 posts)
15. " a Nato coalition of the willing " even the wording is same as Iraq, they dont even pretend anymore
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 06:25 AM
Aug 2013
Defeated NATO Dangerously Desperate in Syria

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.se/2013/08/defeated-nato-dangerously-desperate-in.html

August 25, 2013 - (Tony Cartalucci) As far back as 2007, it was a documented fact that the West, including the United States and its allies Saudi Arabia and Israel, conspired to use terrorists drawn from the ranks of the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda in an attempt to overthrow the governments of Iran and Syria.

Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh in his 2007 New Yorker article, "The Redirection," http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh?currentPage=all stated (emphasis added):


"To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda."
Starting in 2011, this conspiracy was catapulted into all out war - albeit behind the tenuous smokescreen of "pro-democracy activists" and the so-called "Free Syrian Army" fighting for "freedom" within and along Syria's borders.


Not only has this conspiracy been exposed, but it has categorically failed. The Syrian government has routed even the most dug-in terrorist proxies, making irreversible gains against a clearly depleted enemy. While the US continuously threatens to "arm the opposition," it is a fact that any and all weapons, cash, and support the US had, it has already sent over the last 3 years. This includes untold millions in cash, and literally thousands of tons of weaponry airlifted by the US and UK. The US and its regional allies have also scoured the global extremist networks they have built up over decades for every last fighter they could possible find - all to no avail.

There is nothing left except direct military intervention, which cannot be sold as helping an opposition now clearly exposed as being Al Qaeda. That means, the humanitarian intervention, "right to protect" (R2P) must be wiped clean of NATO's lies and crimes in Libya, and prepared for Syria. Only what exactly could the West use to justify an intervention against the Syrian government that is worse than what it and its proxies have already done to tens of thousands of Syrian civilians?

snip

----------------------------

U.S. Preps for Possible Cruise Missile Attack on Syrian Gov't Forces



http://www.activistpost.com/2013/08/us-positions-for-attack-on-syria.html

U.S. Positions For Attack On Syria



While President Barack Obama meets with his national security advisers early on Saturday morning to discuss the, at best, highly questionable nature of the recent Syrian chemical weapons attacks, the US Navy is repositioning itself in the Mediterranean as a preparatory move for future strikes against Syria.

As a result of the ridiculous “Red Line” talk which began in earnest last year, Obama and his puppet counterparts in Britain and France as well as the ever present Mad Dog of the Middle East, Israel, have repeated the threats of military action against Syrian on numerous occasions, most notably after reports of the Regime’s use of chemical weapons against the Syrian people or the death squads also known as the Syrian “rebels.” Of course, in every single case, the evidence clearly suggests that it was the death squads, not Assad, who used the chemical agents against Syrian soldiers and innocent civilians. Likewise, the latest “chemical weapons attack” appears to be the handiwork of the death squads, with even mainstream experts questioning the veracity of the claims surrounding the Syrian government’s culpability.

Regardless, the plan to attack Syria is moving forward.

On Friday, August 24, 2013, it was reported by a variety of mainstream sources that the US Navy has begun repositioning itself in the Mediterranean for the possibility of a military assault on Syria. An anonymous defense official has stated that the US Navy is expanding its presence in the Mediterranean from three destroyers to four.

Commenting on the move, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel stated ..............


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