France backs US on Syria action

[Surya Gayatri]

Source: BBC News

French President Francois Hollande says a vote by UK MPs vote blocking involvement in military action against Syria has not changed France's resolve.

.../...

Francois Hollande said all options were being considered, and that a strike within days was not ruled out.

His comments came after US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel said Washington would continue to seek a coalition for possible military action.

Washington accuses Damascus of using chemical weapons - which it denies.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

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Pres. Hollande is putting his little remaining political capital on the line by backing the US' position.

There will surely be an uproar among the French public and in French political circles over this.

[David__77]

1. I predict an erosion of French support with each day.

No one really wants to spend capital on this, either in resources and CERTAINLY not in a single life. Therefore, there should be no intervention. The risk to the security of the Western countries is simply too great, regardless of one's thoughts of the evils of this or that side in their civil war. The best case scenario is that as many jihadists are expended in Syria as possible, helping dry up the river bed of international terror networks.

[Surya Gayatri]

3. Things are always really calm in Paris in August, as everybody is out of the city on hols.

This week is "la rentrée" (the return to work school, etc.) and the beginning of the political year. The debate is bound to heat up once the pols get back.

[David__77]

5. Oh, how I wish Melenchon was their president.

But alas I am not French, and they have made their bed, as is their right. I do think the twilight of "humanitarian intervention" will even arrive in France. It is largely dead in US public opinion (except the elites), in Britain and a number of other Western countries. This is not a left-right issue at all, but rather one of the reality-based community versus supporters of some radical notion of "global democratic revolution" (not your grandfather's democracy).

[Surya Gayatri]

6. I voted for him in the first round, but that didn't pan out.

Then it was down to Hollande or Sark (Sarkozy). There was only one choice.

[David__77]

7. Thank you for that.

Of course everyone would have to make that decision. Sarkozy was destroying the fabric of the nation. I simply think France needs a healthy left again, and the Left Front is the best option for that. It is as if the collapse of the PCF paved the road for Le Pen.

[Surya Gayatri]

8. What a difference 20 years make! I remember the

time when the PCF was a force to be reckoned with (in spite of their idiosyncratic leader, Georges Marchais).

I couldn't vote back in the day, as I only acquired French citizenship 10 years ago.

[David__77]

11. I'm going into the weeds...

...but the PCF was actually quite chauvinist (in the nationalist sense) in many instances, taking anti-immigrant stances, communist mayors railing against "shanty towns," appealing to the "true France" as opposed to the one allegedly corrupted by Anglo-American culture. It was quite conservative culturally, but still leftist in any commonly understand sense.

PCF "modernized" under the influence of Gorbachev social-democracy, but I think it PCF did not reform and kept like the Czech CP or something like that, they'd still have perhaps 10% support of the voters. Not saying that would be a good thing, but a sizable part of the French CP electorate was not comfortable with the identity politics/feminist/gay/environmental "rainbow coalition" feel to the new PCF. Sorry for the tangent - just a mostly uninformed view from someone who's never stepped foot in your country, admittedly, but has some relevant experience in the movements.

[Surya Gayatri]

13. Spot on analysis...the PCF didn't move with the times and

has now become a footnote to history.

I remember when there were activists selling "L'Humanité" (the PCF's broadsheet) on every street corner. And the yearly "Fête de l'Humanité" was a huge event.

[Ghost Dog]

24. Hi Surya. Pleased to meet you

(+ hi David).

See also: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3561541 for more on international ('Western') opinion...

[Surya Gayatri]

25. ¿Hola, qué tal, GD? ¡Encantada!

Thanks for the link to more info.

[Ghost Dog]

28. Saludos.

...

[dipsydoodle]

2. He changes almost daily on the subject.

'nuff said.

[Surya Gayatri]

4. Like I said upthread, the debate hasn't even begun. Nobody's in town.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

9. Damn, no more freedom fries for us. :-(

[Surya Gayatri]

10. Non, c'est des "pommes frites" désormais! LOL!

("Pommes frites" is french fries in French.)

[Fantastic Anarchist]

15. My mom, who is French, says they come from Belgium, anyway.

Back when the US renamed them, she was like, "So, I don't care, they're from Belgium, anyway" which was heavily accented. lol

[Surya Gayatri]

16. Yeah, a mocking epithet by the French for the Belgians

(there's a centuries-long rivalry between them) is "Héh, éspèce de pomme frite!"

And, the Belgians insist it was they who invented the cuisine that the French so pride themselves on. In fact, some of the best French cuisine and resturants are to be found in Belgium, most notably in Brussels. (Not to mention the world renowned Belgian chocolate).

[Fantastic Anarchist]

22. I had no idea this rivalry was taking place!

My mom never spoke disparagingly about the Belgians. Perhaps, she harbored some secret disdain for those dastardly Belgians?

The French shouldn't be worried about Syria, they should be worried about Belgium!

[Surya Gayatri]

23. Yeah, it is their neighbor to the north, after all!

I think the Belgian-bashing was a result of contiguity in the border regions--Pas de Calais, Nord, Ardennes, etc.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

29. Plus they allowed the Germans through ...

... which made the magnificence of our Maginot Line useless!

[Ghost Dog]

26. It seems, from the history, that the first potato cultivation in 'Europe' was

in the Canary Islands (imported from, it appears, the Peruvian Andes).

But, in general in Spain they were slow to catch on.

People of the region that is currently called Belgium then, indeed, took up the culinary running... and became quite expert.

[David__77]

12. I'll still never forget going to a greasy spoon cafe and wanted a "French Connection," in 2003

I suppose the "French Connection" was some sort of breakfast plate on their menu. In any event, it had just been renamed "FREEDOM Connection." It was like 3 AM and my friend and I were like "what the fuck is a 'FREEDOM connection? I want a fucking FRENCH connection!" We were joking in tone the waitress thought it was silly too. So we ordered on what we insisted to be the FRENCH connection, and got it. That was so inane and mind boggling...

[Surya Gayatri]

14. What can I say? At the time, I tried vainly to hide

my American origins. So did lots of other ex-patriots. We sometimes tried to pass as Canadian. LOL!

[PATRICK]

17. French responsibility

goes back to the colonial days when, according to the typical procedure for imperialist colonialization the 12% minority Alawites were chosen to occupy the elite position and the military. As in many other countries this pernicious meddling has persisted in a continuing battle between the artificial divisions. The Alawite military is a French Frankenstein, taken up by the Soviets for modern armament markets. Assad in order to preserve the elite control has asked his sect to shed a lot of beliefs and customs(or at least hide them) since also being a controversial cult among Muslims creates opposition. Allthough this sad suckerdom reality has little to do with religion picture the USA dominated by Mormons in a similar fashion.

The USA never got involved in the bloodbath in Ruwanda in a similar imperialist restructured tribal division of minority elites, although it all happened relatively faster. It did in old Yugoslavia and had a relatively effective(as it turned out) strategy to crash the entire national structure.
Without troops on the ground to gum up the meatgrinder caused by the French exactly what good is going to be accomplished? How many Syrians will be able to organize to survive or stop the violence? In any aftermath how is it there will not be continued slaughter or radicalization?

Yet, all of this grand scale massacre is caused by a few. Somehow, despite all our power, no one can say to the actual leadership "We know where you are at all times. You will be killed by such and such a time. To limit regrettable collateral damage please keep all others at least a mile away." This courtesy warning will also be extended to immediate successors and responsible parties should the sh*t not stop." In a more civilized world the same policy could be extended, as brutal and honest and relatively humane as it is, regardless of the abject hypocrisy and untrustworthy judgment of those who typically have no problem letting the little pawns fall by the millions. We have an impossibly hard time getting at those few responsible- not nations, soldiers or peoples though. The collateral damage is more repugnant than the moral and legal posturing by current and past imperialist powers. The best of humans have always realized there is no actual moral high ground in this swamp- unless you yourself are on that cross up there or otherwise obliterated into mere victimhood for no value or logic in the world we have made.

[Surya Gayatri]

18. Point taken about Rwanda, although it does happen to be

located in a much less sensitive and inflamed region than Syria, and so sollicited much less attention.

[Scuba]

19. This'll drive the teabillies crazy.

[on point]

20. I expect all fish and chips to renamed fish and French fries now!!!!

[Surya Gayatri]

21. Better see about that with the Brits--it's their beloved

national specialty, after all.

[Ghost Dog]

27. Dunno about your American 'fries'...

... but 'chips' (not the Irish kind - those are 'crisps') are as English as Yorkshire Pudding.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

30. I be afraid when.....

.....the French are the only ones standing behind us. Oh Lawd!!!!