Pentagon Is Ordered to Expand Potential Targets in Syria With a Focus on Forces

[Hissyspit]

Source: New York Times

Pentagon Is Ordered to Expand Potential Targets in Syria With a Focus on Forces

By DAVID E. SANGER and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: September 5, 2013

WASHINGTON — President Obama has directed the Pentagon to develop an expanded list of potential targets in Syria in response to intelligence suggesting that the government of President Bashar al-Assad has been moving troops and equipment used to employ chemical weapons while Congress debates whether to authorize military force.

Mr. Obama, officials said, is now determined to put more emphasis on the “degrade” part of what the administration has said is the goal of a military strike against Syria — to “deter and degrade” Mr. Assad’s ability to use chemical weapons. That means expanding beyond the 50 or so major sites that were part of the original target list developed with French forces before Mr. Obama delayed action on Saturday to seek Congressional approval of his plan.

For the first time, the administration is talking about using American and French aircraft to conduct strikes on specific targets, in addition to ship-launched Tomahawk cruise missiles. There is a renewed push to get other NATO forces involved.

The strikes would be aimed not at the chemical stockpiles themselves — risking a potential catastrophe — but rather the military units that have stored and prepared the chemical weapons and carried the attacks against Syrian rebels, as well as the headquarters overseeing the effort, and the rockets and artillery that have launched the attacks, military officials said Thursday.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/world/middleeast/pentagon-is-ordered-to-expand-potential-targets-in-syria-with-a-focus-on-forces.html

[dkf]

1. Wow, losing the vote plus the argument and doubling down.

[David__77]

4. Will Obama go down in history for handing Syria to al Qaeda on a silver platter?

I hope the answer is no.

[swilton]

40. Was Syria ever Obama's to

hand to al Qaeda on a silver platter?

[David__77]

46. That's my point. He should not do so.

Thankfully, congress is getting the message that he should do so as well.

[Tx4obama]

6. We did not lose votes due to the Libya intervention.

And we will not over the Syria intervention either.

[Maedhros]

8. Losing votes is the least of the bad outcomes possible. [n/t]

[Puzzledtraveller]

9. For the Inner-Party that is all that matters.

[Maedhros]

14. Root, root, root for the home team... [n/t]

[dkf]

16. No...speaking about how this vote looks to be going.

It's not looking good so why is he making the terms worse?

[Ash_F]

50. Oh?

Yeah, I am sure the entire democratic base was happy about that.

[David__77]

2. So they are planning an even bigger war for al Qaeda.

It is truly treason against the interests of our country.

[dkf]

17. Death's head? What in the world is that?

[arewenotdemo]

18. You know, I don't think it was just the acid.

A Death's Head is any individual that is possessed by, and carries out the wishes of his/her culture's Death Instinct.

A smiling Donald Rumsfeld comes to mind.

But at times like this, their human masks tend to slip away and they're not hard to spot when you've got an eye for them.

[dkf]

20. I have definitely not heard that before.

Well now I know. Thanks.

[arewenotdemo]

24. Maybe this will help.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/john-kerry-warns-of-more-syrian-extremists-if-congress-votes-no/

[jakeXT]

25. He was in the same secret society as Bush and Stimson, the guy pushing the Hiroshima

bomb

He joined Skull and Bones, a secret society that afforded many contacts for the rest of his life.[

....

Groves reported directly to General George Marshall, but in fact Stimson was in charge. Stimson secured the necessary money and approval from Roosevelt and from Congress, and made sure Manhattan had the highest priorities. He controlled all planning for the use of the bomb. Stimson wanted "Little Boy" (the Hiroshima bomb) dropped within hours of its earliest possible availability. And it was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_L._Stimson#cite_note-15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

[msongs]

3. Obama is getting his advice from Gen. Jack D. Ripper again nt

[arewenotdemo]

12. AKA Samantha Power

With her R2PT (Responsibility to Protect Terrorists) doctrine.

[Kablooie]

62. We must protect our bodily fluids.

[totodeinhere]

5. Well here we go. They are already expanding their so-called "limited response."

I didn't believe for one minute that it would be a limited response and this confirms it.

[Robbins]

7. I agree

This confirms my bad feelings.

[cstanleytech]

32. Long as it doesnt include a ground invasion and occupation forces its still a limited

response.

[totodeinhere]

33. So they can bomb Syria into the Stone Age and it's still limited?

I don't think so.

[cstanleytech]

37. Yes of course because we all know that is what is being proposed!!

[totodeinhere]

43. Of course I was using a bit of hyperbole, but based upon news reports it does look

like they are ready to up the ante quite bit to the point where we can no longer reasonably call the proposed strikes "limited." I disagree that it must include boots on the ground before it leaves the limited category. Was the Battle of London limited when Hitler's air forced bombed London for weeks on end just because there were no boots on the ground?

[cstanleytech]

45. I dont think Obama is proposing a repeat of the Battle of London either

seeing as I dont believe he would order a carpet bombing of the civilian population.

[daleo]

47. As long as itS not on the scale of D-day, it could still be called limited

By that definition.

[cstanleytech]

52. Which is why I believe waiting to see what the proposal is a good idea for us all to do.

Also the administration should wait imo on the UN report on what if any chemical weapons were used and how they were released because for all we know it could have been an accidental release though imo no one from either side should of course been stockpiling the stuff at all for any reason.

[daleo]

57. Waiting for facts is best.

[cstanleytech]

58. Oh I agree with you there. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

10. Okay, this is starting to look like going to war with Syria. And what happens if we "win"?

[defacto7]

13. If we win

we lose. If we lose, we lose. We have already lost this one on every front.

[Comrade Grumpy]

15. Obama needs to let Congress convince him to walk away from this.

I called my senators this week. Told 'em I'm ag'in' it. My rep is a Teabagger Republican, so she's probably a safe "no" vote, but I'll give her office a call just to reinforce it.

[arewenotdemo]

21. A salute to you, Comrade Grumpy!

[fasttense]

27. But what is winning?

The problem with using a military attack for political reasons, is that winning is a vague, ever expanding, ill defined objective.

[Alamuti Lotus]

19. Brazen, blood-thirsty arrogance!

I can't imagine what the result would be if reports about other countries "expanding potential targets in the US" were to be so casually belted about. Whether you're for the aggression or not, think about how utterly incongruent and obscene the discussion is.

[arewenotdemo]

22. Absolutely. We've got to shut this shit down, NOW.

Gotta let our reps know we have their backs on this, to vote "NO".

And let the undecided know we won't forget who voted "YES".

[Turbineguy]

23. For that kind of money

we could take all 1.7 million Syrian refugees out to a nice meal at Ruth Chris or Mortons.

And spend the money wiser.

[Celefin]

26. Can we please move on from the act of war yes or no argument now?

Cruise missiles PLUS the aircraft of two nations striking an 'expanded list of targets'- try to spin that one as 'not going to war'.

And it will not be limited to this strike as they are bound to miss some strategically important targets the first time around... and after that we'll just see the whole thing morph into continued air-support for the rebels.

Please let me be wrong on this one.

[ConcernedCanuk]

28. Holy shit - 50 cities wasn't enough, eh?

.
.
.

50 MAJOR cities planned, now he wants MORE??????????

Of course, there will be no children or women around, - right?

I remember when some here got angry when anyone referred to Obama as "Bush Lite".

Well, consider this - Bush DID get an ok from the UN, and a coalition (of sorts) from many nations.

It seems to me that Obama wants to "trump" Bush.

Don't need approval from his own citizens,

Don't need approval from the UN.

Or anyone else for that matter.

LET'S HAVE ANOTHER WAR!

Makes one ponder . . .

(sigh)

CC

[dixiegrrrrl]

55. "that Obama wants to "trump" Bush."

yeah...a pissing contest, on one level.

Watching the escalation of plans and excuses over the past week or so, it is clear that hegemony is the middle east is a given,
a long term plan across several administrations.
Plus, as of 2 years ago or so, there was a definite sense of increased urgency to glom onto as much territory as possible in ME and in Africa.
Peak oil is past us, climate change/global warming ( whatever the hell we choose to call it) means increase in water and energy wars.

the Grand Chessboard continues to be in play. We are just having a "slower " undeclared war against Russia and China for resources.
Not too much attention yet is on Russia's response to Obama's drum beating..worth taking a look at, tho.

[Sanddog42]

56. 50 major "sites"

Not "cities" per se.

[Arrowhead2k1]

29. The Obama admin has gone mad.

I am just in shock these past few months...

[FiveGoodMen]

41. Many said that after he was re-elected he'd be free to act the way he really wanted to

Guess that was true.

[JoePhilly]

30. DU used to be a site where the majority would know that the

United States government always plans for a very large set of contingencies.

Its called "creating alternatives".

Geeeze ... its going to be interesting to see what happens around here when WWIII doesn't happen.

[totodeinhere]

34. So is WWIII now the threshold? As long as we don't go that far it's OK?

I don't think so.

[JoePhilly]

35. You do know that we have war plans for both Russia and China, right?

Its true.

We have war plans for Russia China, Syria ... and Iran. Multiple versions actually, versions which vary based on precipitating conditions and other factors.

We have plans for if Pakistan and India go to war.

Plans for if Iran invades Iraq.

Such plans are under almost constant revisions as conditions around the world evolve.

And so ... GASP!! ... yes, the military has come up with an array of potential strike models for Syria.

The level of collective freak out on DU never ceases to amaze me.

[totodeinhere]

36. The difference is that those other things you listed are just plans.

But in the case of Syria the president plans to act on those plans if he can get congressional approval, and from what I'm reading today, perhaps even if he doesn't get approval.

[JoePhilly]

38. Which of those plans does he intend to actually use?

Or is he going to just add them together and wipe Syria off the map?

Isn't that what the folks on this thread are claiming? Its going to be just like Iraq, maybe worse ... according to DU's common wisdom.

My guess is that if the President doesn't do anything ... by a week from now, the predictions on DU will have expanded to include all out nuclear war with Russia.

Think I'm wrong?

Look at the post that came right after your initial post (currently directly below this response to you).

Boots on the ground, definitely going to happen.

[totodeinhere]

39. We don't know exactly which plan he will use because it keeps changing from day to day.

That's another criticism I have. They seem to be conducting their foregoing policy by the seat of their pants. The only way to rescue him from this debacle is for Congress to vote a resounding no and it looks like that's going to happen. And if he attacks without congressional approval we can kiss both the 2014 and 2016 elections goodbye. Such a thing would set the Democratic Party back for years.

[daleo]

48. You should take these plans seriously

Sure, militaries plan, but they don't usually broadcast those plans, unless they want people to get used to the idea that it will really happen.

[sabrina 1]

54. DU DOES know that. And we know that each time there was a 'limited' strike, lots of people died.

And it is because we know these things that we have always opposed these 'humanitarian' interventions.

Did you support Bush's Iraq War? Believe all the lies they were obviously telling? DU didn't. So what's the difference now?

[workinclasszero]

31. Mission Creep even before the first missile is fired!

Its going to end with a huge "boots on ground" effort, I have no doubt!

I feel sorry for all the military folks that are going to be sent to that hellhole. All sides will hate their guts.

Will we never learn????

[quadrature]

42. B2s, B52s, from the US, will drop glide bombs on

the peoples of Syria.

since it will take many hours to get there,
is there time for the world to be warned
and take action?

[appacom]

44. Nobody mentions the hundreds murdered by chemical weapons, or our promise that these crimes against

humanity would never happen again, or our moral obligation to stand against this. I'm proud of the president, and believe I am among many who don't speak up for fear of derision from the far left and far right.

[Hissyspit]

49. Pride is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. nt

[Nihil]

51. Apparently it is usually accompanied by wilful ignorance and a desire to be an ostrich. (n/t)

[philosslayer]

60. Amen

This constant deriding and doubting of President Obama almost literally makes me sick.

[DirkGently]

53. Wow. "Limited strike" out the window even before a vote.

Didn't see that coming.

Thought they'd want the Camel's nose under the tent first.

[cstanleytech]

59. Here is a question for you all.

If Russia truly wants to help why dont they offer to send a peace keeping force of their own to the country?
It doesnt do squat to support one side over the other but instead it tells both of them to knock it the hell off and then they could setup open elections monitored by the UN so that the people of Syria can resolve this whole mess the proper way.........via the vote.

[Harmony Blue]

63. Peace is a fleeting idea in that part of the world

reality is that there are some Muslims that believe Islamic laws are above any other human laws, so a collision of cultures that is violent and will continue to be violent seems certain.

[Kablooie]

61. So how do they now that Assad is preparing to use chemical weapons again?

It seems excessively stupid for Assad, since America is on the verge of preventing the military from entering the conflict, to goad America with more chemical attacks.
This would probably tip Congressional support over into supporting attacks which wouldn't help Assad at all.
I can't believe he's that insane.

The only reason we are hearing this I'm sure is the same reason we kept hearing about Sadaam's weapons of mass destruction.
It's propaganda lies created by the US government to manipulate us into supporting their aims.
We are getting closer and closer to a Bush like attack and we are being manipulated with the exact same techniques.

President Obama, STOP IT! LET IT GO!!!
THIS ISN'T OUR FIGHT!!!!!