Syria 'welcomes' Russia proposal to put chemical weapons under international control

[MannyGoldstein]

Source: CNN

Syria "welcomes" Russia's proposal for President Bashar al-Assad's regime to put its chemical weapons under international control, Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem told reporters in Moscow on Monday.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/politics/syria-kerry/index.html

---

Earlier story:

(CNN) -- Russia urged Syrian President Bashar al-Assad on Monday to put his nation's chemical weapons stockpile under international control as part of an effort to head off a possible military strike from the United States.

Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, said his country would urge Syria to take the action if it would avert a military response from the United States. There was no immediate reaction from the Syrian government.

Lavrov's comments came the same day Secretary of State John Kerry seemed to endorse a similar course of action.

Assad "could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week," Kerry said during a news conference with British Foreign Secretary William Hague. "But he isn't about to do it and it can't be done obviously."

[andym]

1. So Kerry makes a "rhetorical" statement, Putin takes up the offer and Syria agrees

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2013, 01:38 PM - Edit history (2)

Perhaps a way out of this mess that will have real consequences to prevent future attacks, even if Kerry may not have intended it as such (he has called his statement "rhetorical&quot .

A small comment here: it doesn't matter if it was "rhetorical," a shot in the dark, or a clever plan, it 's a great way out of the mess for everyone, especially the Syrian people who might face future gas attacks.

[Schema Thing]

4. er, the "rhetorical" part was likely that "they won't do it and it can't be done"

especially since it can't be done in a week, but it can of course be done quickly.

[Andy823]

11. I agree

"the "rhetorical" part was likely that "they won't do it and it can't be done"

I think that is what he was talking about.

This could be a way out of this mess, and I hope it gets some attention from the president.

[Schema Thing]

13. that made me laugh. Don't you figure Kerry and the President are

in pretty good communication?

[karynnj]

6. The state department spokesperson said it was rhetorical

Such an offer should come from President Obama - which is why the State Department likely said what they did. (One article said Kerry was on his way to DC.)

It could be an excellent win/win (for US and Russia) way out of this - accomplishing what Obama said was the goal. If it is real - this could be incredibly good news. Whether Kerry meant it as an offer or as rhetoric. To me, it was almost a statement of the obvious.

[Turborama]

17. It could be an offer President Obama made behind closed doors to Putin at the G20

Which Kerry later let slip out to the media (impatience?), but was told he had to try and rein it back in.

[karynnj]

20. Could be

- or it could be Obama made the offer and Kerry was asked to let it slip out - to push some momentum.

[Turborama]

25. Yep, just as likely.

And the trying to rein it back was a purely diplomatic move?

[George II]

43. I was thinking exactly that.....unfortunately people around here are eager to fault.....

....the Obama administration and give him zero credit whatsoever.

I'm glad there are some cool heads around here.

[johnd83]

79. I suspect this has been the desired outcomes all along

I think the sabre rattling has been aimed at Russia to force them to act. The only strategic goal that can be achieved is getting rid of the chemical weapons. Sabre rattling has its own purpose. Putting an aircraft battle group gives the enemy some perspective without firing a shot.

[pnwmom]

37. That would be the diplomatic thing to say.

Not that they were indirectly giving Assad the opportunity to prove Kerry wrong.

[dballance]

57. Agreed. It could be a win/win for all parties.

I don't care what back-room machinations caused this but as long as it ends with us NOT entering into a proxy war and not killing thousands and thousands of more Arabic peoples with our bombs I'm all for it.

It could be a great win for Obama. He can show that the US and Russia can work together and not re-start a cold war. He can do something about that "red line" he set up.

If the Obama administration orchestrated this then I'm very proud of them. If they didn't but do take advantage of it I'll be proud of them still.

[Turborama]

69. Regarding the offer coming from President Obama at the G20, I just found this...

Putin himself said Friday at a news conference marking the summit's end that he and Obama discussed some new ideas regarding a peaceful settlement of the crisis and instructed Kerry and Lavrov to work out details.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russia-syria-push-chemical-experts-return-20197291?singlePage=true

Looks more and more like it was.

[pnwmom]

28. A rhetorical statement or a trial balloon?

Kerry could have been indirectly daring Assad to prove him wrong.

[blm]

31. That was MY take.

.

[YvonneCa]

61. ...

...

[andym]

35. It could have been a trial balloon or even planned

Doesn't really matter. All that counts is that those weapons will be deep-sixed and that an attack becomes unnecessary.

[Voice for Peace]

47. but but but but what about spanking Assad?

[awoke_in_2003]

94. Kerry is too smart...

for a gaffe- I think it was all part of the plan. Seems to be working.

[Schema Thing]

2. Good. We should be able to see real, tangible, action on this within 24 hours.

[David__77]

3. Oh, where do you get that from?

This would take some time to security guarantees and other things built into any agreement to be adopted via resolution at the security council. You don't get something for nothing.

[Schema Thing]

9. we could/should see the key players communicating action plans within 24 hours.

[karynnj]

10. Obama had already said there was no time pressure on this

If this is real - it is a win/win way out of a crisis. (There are precedents for the world moving back from the cliff before -- the first to come to my mind was the more important Cuban Missile Crisis.

[David__77]

12. Well I certainly do hope that a diplomatic solution can be found.

Security guarantees would need to be part of any deal certainly, and that would go a long way to facilitate regional stability.

[arewenotdemo]

68. David, what do you mean by "security guarantees"?

Obama agreeing to end his covert war against Syria?

I can't see him doing that.

[David__77]

74. That is what I mean, in part.

I also refer to interference by Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

[KittyWampus]

15. Apparently Kerry and Lavrov have been working on things for a while. I'd imagine they have some

things hashed out already.

[warrior1]

5. Obama win

[totodeinhere]

27. Don't jump the gun. Kerry said that he doesn't think that Assad will do it.

Time will tell.

[George II]

7. Russia and Syria blink! This is very good news all around if it comes to pass.

[onwardsand upwards]

92. More like: USA's bluff called.

D'oh!

The war profiteers must be mad with their clumsy puppets.

Kerry will be taken to the woodshed.

War is a racket.

[Jesus Malverde]

8. checkmate..nt

Never challenge the russians at chess...

[KittyWampus]

16. it's bizarre to see DU'ers spinning this as a defeat for Obama/Kerry. Sick.

[David__77]

19. Why is that sick?

I think it's clear that this represents the US backing down from regime change strategy - you know, the senate resolution to "change the momentum on the battlefield" in favor of the al Qaeda-allied terrorists?

[George II]

45. There was a Senate resolution on Syria?

[David__77]

51. The one passed out of foreign relations committee.

It has not been approved the the full senate.

[George II]

55. That's curious....

...the term "change the momentum on the battlefield" isn't in that resolution, at least the one posted on TPM:

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/read-text-of-senate-resolution-to-approve-strike

[David__77]

58. It calls for aid to the terrorists.

"the provision of all forms of assistance to the Syrian Supreme Military Council and other Syrian entities opposed to the government of Bashar Al-Assad that have been properly and fully vetted and share common values and interests with the United States"

[George II]

62. You really shouldn't stop mid-sentence once you see what you want to see...

....here is the rest of that sentence:

"that have been properly and fully vetted and share common values and interests with the United States"

I don't see anything about "aid to the terrorists".

[David__77]

65. They are terrorists.

That is my assessment. They are Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda-allied.

[George II]

71. You missed this, too...........

"efforts to isolate extremist and terrorist groups in Syria"

[David__77]

73. Yes I did not copy the entire statement.

I left the comedy out if it. The only means to do that would be to withhold aid to the insurgency as a whole.

[Jesus Malverde]

72. Anyone who has been following this for almost 3 years would know this.

People are uninformed or disingenuous.

[arewenotdemo]

78. I agree entirely.

[arewenotdemo]

70. The key phrase, I believe...

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2013, 05:52 PM - Edit history (2)

is "share common values and interests with the United States".

That the most basic common interest is regime change should be self-evident to everyone.

After that, I believe it's not unclear what "vetted" actually means.

[karynnj]

86. Yes and that was a McCain amendment that the WH did not write

- and there would be NOTHING binding on the President to do other thanwhat he thought needed being done.

Both the Pres[dent and the Secretary ruled out changing the momentum and especially regime change.

[David__77]

87. I might agree than an "unbelieably small" thing might not do that.

Teensy weensy stuff wouldn't. And I agree that THAT would not compel such action, but it's another reason for the full senate to reject that resolution.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

22. I know, completely SICK!!!!

You might not get to see the victims of the American cruise missiles you've been begging to use!


I feel for you, I'm sure you had this time set aside on the calendar.




In all honesty though, whats sick is you cheerleading for more bloodshed and then being disappointed when other options like diplomacy are used, for shame.

[Wait Wut]

38. Please provide a link...

...that shows KW has been "cheerleading for more bloodshed."

Thank you in advance.

[Turborama]

23. Yep

That no-one can seem to bring themselves to recommend this thread, which contains the statement that seems to have started it all off, is rather telling: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014589850

Some of the answers in there, too...

[azurnoir]

50. you mean this part?

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad could avoid a U.S. military strike by surrendering all his chemical weapons within a week, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said on Monday, but immediately made clear he was not making a serious offer.

or this part, which I found interesting

Kerry, a former lawyer, said he had successfully prosecuted people with less evidence and warned that doing nothing was worse than doing something, saying inaction would come back to haunt the United States and its allies.

[Turborama]

52. Obviously the 1st part

Which relates to what I was saying upthread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014590172#post17

[azurnoir]

60. well it could be if

and in this case if is very big word-the US considers Russia to be a valid mediator here, it says the "international community" but who gets to hold the stockpile, which member(s) are considered to be trust worthy enough?

[totodeinhere]

24. Lets just wait to see how this plays out. I don't think we can trust either the Syrians

or the Russians. So lets just hope for the best.

[Jesus Malverde]

33. a geopolitical success of the first order

“This regime in Syria serves as the main forward operating base of the Iranian regime in the heart of the Arab world. It has supported Palestinian terrorist groups and funneled arms of all kinds, including tens of thousands of rockets, to Hezbollah in Lebanon. It remains a committed enemy of Israel. It has large stockpiles of chemical weapons and materials and has sought to develop a nuclear weapons capability. It was the primary gateway for the countless foreign fighters who infiltrated into Iraq and killed our troops. Assad and his lieutenants have the blood of hundreds of Americans on their hands. Many in Washington fear that what comes after Assad might be worse. How could it be any worse than this?

“The end of the Assad regime would sever Hezbollah’s lifeline to Iran, eliminate a long-standing threat to Israel, bolster Lebanon’s sovereignty and independence, and inflict a strategic defeat on the Iranian regime. It would be a geopolitical success of the first order. More than all of the compelling moral and humanitarian reasons, this is why Assad cannot be allowed to succeed and remain in power: We have a clear national security interest in his defeat. And that alone should incline us to tolerate a large degree of risk in order to see that this goal is achieved.

http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?ContentRecord_id=e460be36-c488-e7de-8c38-64c3751adfce&FuseAction=PressOffice.FloorStatements

[johnd83]

80. Yeah, I agree

If this works it is the best outcome possible.

[JustanAngel]

14. Would be nice if the places where chemical weapons were made were shut down.

But how will we be able to know that all chemical weapons have been handed over, destroyed, etc.? I think this is a WIN/WIN, also. Peace is STRENGTH. War/Violence is WEAKNESS.

[Botany]

18. This could be good news

I would like to see Jimmy Carter, if he is up to it, get involved and see if
diplomatic actions might find another way out.

[blm]

34. Diplomacy is exactly what's been going on quietly for a long time now.

Perhaps that is what led to the chemical attack, in hopes of diverting the process.

After the attack - there was only one way to stop Assad, and that would be leveraging Russia.


http://www.rferl.org/content/syria-lavrov-kerry-geneva/25071543.html

[John2]

21. I think Assad

would be just as stupid as Saddam or Gaddafi to give up Syria's most potent weapon, because of a threat. That was the reason for having them in the first place. If you do fall, at least the consequences will be terrible for the enemy. Chemical warfare will make some places un livable. I think Assad should reject it and let the U.S. carry out their plans. Assad is a trained military commander too. I don't think that is good military advice to trust the United States or Israel. He needs to think about it real hard. If these people were lying, what makes him think that he can trust them now? I'm very surprised the Russians suggested that. If the Russians guaranteed to use their own military force, then I would agree. I wouldn't just accept any blanket statement on the face of it. It is just dumb.

[Warren Stupidity]

49. There would have to be clear unambiguous

guarantees with treaty level legal authority.

[arewenotdemo]

84. I also think that the Russians have to guarantee military support against any future attack,

as well as assurance that they will do more to help defeat the rebels.

[corkhead]

26. and a big fat case of Blue Balls for the MIC

[another_liberal]

39. AIPAC won't be pleased either.

American politicians who support this initiative will find only coal in their contribution stockings

[Kablooie]

29. At least this is a step in the right direction.

It would be a relief to Obama because it gives him a face saving out.

All this talk about "if Obama doesn't get approval for the attack his presidency is over" is nonsense.
Sure it would be an embarrassment but if he got approval and led us into another unending war it really would be the end of his presidency in that he would lose the support of just about everyone in the country.

If the UN gets control of the situation it would be better for everyone.

Of course you could surmise that this was Obama's intent the whole time.
He never really planned to attack but knew the threat would be enough to bring a more reasonable solution to the problem.
I doubt this was the expectation though because his hawktalk has damaged his credibility with so much of his base that I doubt it would have been used simply as a ploy.

[KoKo]

36. Good points. Whichever it is if this could go to the UN for resolution it would be

great news!

[tridim]

30. Chess. Again.

And he wins, again.

And again, and again, and again, Manny.

[totodeinhere]

40. You may be declaring a premature victory.

This proposal has a long way to go. The Syrians saying they "welcome" the initiative and actually following through on it are two vastly different things. And John Kerry said that he didn't think that Assad would do it although now they are trying to walk back that comment.

[karynnj]

41. I don't think that is what they are walking back

I think as it was taken as a US offer, they had to walk it back as that is Obama's prerogative, not Kerry's. Note that after saying Kerry's words were rhetorical they say --- ""making clear its desire to strike could be tempered by a Syrian offer."

I think that if Russia is serious, it will happen - and there is no reason for Obama not to accept it. It would also be a very good lead in to the Lavrov/Kerry requested Geneva 2.

[George II]

46. Yes, to the chagrin of rank and file DUers, Obama is doing a DAMNED GOOD JOB!

[Jester Messiah]

48. Really?

Because to me, it looks like he's been stumbling and floundering, and Uncle Vlad just stepped in to try and save his ass. (Assuming he has the wit to take the help.)

[George II]

53. Hmmm, Obama just spent a few days in Russia...

...and the day after he returned home the Russians offer to intercede and take control of the weapons in dispute.

And you really don't think Obama had anything to do with that?

[George II]

56. An incredible imagination, that's all I can say

[YvonneCa]

63. No kidding. IF something positive comes of this...

...it will be due to the actions and policies of Obama and Kerry. One would think Dems on a Democratic discussion board could give them a little of the credit.

[johnd83]

81. It is pretty shocking

Through media propaganda and background diplomacy Obama and Kerry may have managed to force the capture of a giant chemical weapon arsenal for destruction. How is that in any way a bad thing?

[another_liberal]

32. Sure it's a great idea, and it would eliminate the need to go to war with Syria . . .

But what would be the fun in that?

[HooptieWagon]

42. There goes Raytheon's stock price...

...along with Obama's pretext. Next move will be interesting.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

44. Absolutely meaningless, unless Syria stops being in the way of the oil pipeline and Iran stops

sitting on the top of our oil.

[totodeinhere]

66. Yup. The civil war will most likely continue unabated.

100,000 had already died by conventional means before the chemical attack happened. What makes anyone think that won't continue?

[Ghost Dog]

77. That's British Oil!

... Oh, wait...

[hue]

59. Wait, not so fast-->I'm sure al-Assad would be fine w/it's chemical weapons under (IN)Russia control

Since Russia gave the proposal & the UN seems like a lame duck, Russia would be the 1st to step up & "monitor" Syria's significant stockpile of chemical & other weapons. I'm sure Putin could "dispose" of them himself!!
Also how could anyone trust a thing al-Assad says or agrees upon since he looses all credibility by denying any knowledge of giving consent for their use to begin with? Chemical weapons have been used many times in Syria. I mean who is REALLY in control over there?? Perhaps we should find out who is authorizing the use of chemical weapons & negotiate with them. Of course that's not gonna happen.
al-Assad is a cruel dictator & by nature a LIAR. Al-Assad lies to the American public as easily as he exhales & so does Putin!! How can anyone on this forum believe/have trust in Putin & al-Assad over President Obama??

Indeed if al-Assad would turn over their chemical weapons stockpiles to the International community they can do so at any time-->like yesterday...

Personally I am completely against war especially the killing of innocents. Sarin/nerve gas and other chemical weapons are horrible!! But guess what, the war has already begun and not by the US! It's actually been going on for over 2 yrs. now. Over 100,000 have been killed. So I don't want to hear anyone say that President Obama is starting a war.

I trust President Obama. We, the public, certainly do not have all the facts regarding Syria, Iran, Russia, and the many other groups already contributing/participating in this ongoing war.
I'm def. willing to hear what our President has to say before I rush to judgement.

[Bosonic]

64. France says Syria must commit immediately to destruction of chemical arms

BREAKING: France says Syria must commit immediately to destruction of chemical arms

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/377149467557781505

[Turborama]

67. There's now more to this article than when that sentence was originally posted...

Here's what the Original sentence now looks like:

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem told reporters in Moscow that his nation "welcomes" a proposal by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov during talks on Monday: put Syria's chemical weapons under international control to avert a U.S. military response over an alleged poison gas attack last month.

And it goes on...

"I declare that the Syrian Arab Republic welcomes Russia's initiative, on the basis that the Syrian leadership cares about the lives of our citizens and the security in our country," Moallem said. "We are also confident in the wisdom of the Russian government, which is trying to prevent an American aggression against our people."

The comments came after Secretary of State John Kerry discussed a similar scenario, though the State Department stressed later Monday that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad could not be trusted to relinquish his country's chemical stockpiles.
White House spokesman Jay Carney said the "credible threat" of a U.S. military attack on Syria led to the Russian proposal, but he said any such plan would require close evaluation and that Washington remained "highly skeptical" of the Syrian regime.

Still, the United States said it would take a "hard look" at the plan although State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf said "we can't have this be another stalling tactic."

"Everything that Assad has done over the past two years and before has been to refuse to put his chem weapons under international control. He hasn't declared them. We've repeatedly called on him to do so. And he's ignored prohibitions against them," she said.
"So I think it's important to keep in mind the context under which this Russian statement and this Syrian statement is happening, that this is only happening in the context of a threat of U.S. military action," Harf added.

More: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/09/politics/syria-kerry/index.html

[Uncle Joe]

75. Kicked and recommended for diplomacy, I hope they work it out.

Thanks for the thread, MannyGoldstein.

[blkmusclmachine]

76. Bad news for BHO.

[Maedhros]

82. Syria surrendering its chemical weapon stockpile to an independent, international agency

without further loss of life is the best possible outcome.

See? Diplomacy can work.

[wisteria]

83. Promises, Promises.

Assad made promises to do things two years ago, and did nothing. This doesn't fly unless there is someway to make him totally accountable if he doesn't comply. That would mean that Russia will have to agree to go along with unarming him if he doesn't do what he is told to do. Color me skeptical on this, I simply think of this as a stall. Ultimately, this guy is going to be a problem if he isn't taken care of now. And, anyone who believes that Russia is helping us out and Iran too, needs a history lesson.

[School Teacher]

88. Undercut the Idea of Peace

Wisteria,

You are undercutting the idea of a peaceful resolution with your cynicism. I heard some general on CNN this morning say the same thing.
Are you working for them? AIPAC?

[rhett o rick]

89. We need an alert here. CNN is a right-wing Conspiracy sight. nm

[michigandem58]

90. Ironic that you posted this, Manny n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

91. Dare I ask... OK... Why? nt

[Deep13]

93. "Assad Welcomes...."

We should stop assuming that Assad is synonymous with Syria.