Navy Yard gunman treated for paranoia and hearing voices in his head

[Nancy Waterman]

Source: Washington Times

U.S. law enforcement officials told the Associated Press that Alexis, who died in a shootout with law enforcement officers, had paranoia and a sleep disorder and was "hearing voices" in his head.

The wire service, quoting unidentified sources, said Alexis had been treated since August by the U.S. Veterans Affairs for serious mental illness, including "hearing voices."

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/16/navy-yard-gunman-identified-fbi/

---

The same story is in several other sources, but the title here made the point better.

Once again we find someone who should never have had a gun in his hands, going on a rampage. Every one of these shootings tells the same story: a mentally ill patient with little self-control, going off. Except the Boston marathon bombings, which were terrorism, most of the recent shootings point to a weak mental health system and a useless background check law that is full of holes.

The other issue is the weak background checks by the contract agencies that are nowhere near what is required for federal workers.

[appleannie1]

1. And yet he legally owned guns and passed a security check.

There is something seriously wrong in this country.

[mainstreetonce]

2. Prosecute

Follow the trail of the background check that failed and strongly prosecute whoever messed up.

[glinda]

41. +1

[billh58]

5. The very same

"background check" that gun nuts cite as "proof" that CCW holders are more law-abiding than non-gunner Americans. Never had a parking ticket? Yep, you're good to go with carrying a lethal weapon in public.

Wait -- what's that? You beat your wife and children, but no charges were ever filed? Oh, that's okay Bubba -- here's your CCW and you be careful, heah? If you see Zimmerman out there give him our best, okay?

[happyslug]

58. One aspect of treatment is NOT to discourage people to seek treatment

If someone is afraid that the police will take away his guns if he seeks help, he will NOT seek help. On the other hand if he is told the Police will NOT do that, they often agree to seek help. I have run across this situation, it is more common then people think. I have had clients who refused to seek help that they needed for fear that the police would use them getting help to take away their guns and cars (and other freedoms). To get them to agree to treatment, I have seen Psychologists and other have to repeat that statement over and over, I have seen judges have to say that to a person.

Remember Competency is a very minimal standard, do you know who you are and are NOT causing any HARM to yourself or others. If that is true, you are competent and can refuse treatment. Without treatment there is no record of your problems so no grounds to restrict that person's freedoms.

Thus one of the problems of getting data on people is they refusal to seek help. Thus to get them to agree, we often have to agree that the results of the treatment will NOT be used against that person.

Now, if the person did an previous act of violence, that is a different ball game, but in such cases the burden of proof is on the state and is almost as strict as if you are charging the person with a crime. Those cases are rarely the one we are debating. The issue are the people whose prior acts are NOT that violent AND everyone involved thinks the person needs treatment.

This is the other side of the argument, how do you encourage people to seek help, when they feel that seeking such help will cost them a freedom they hold dear? This is true of being on the streets, owning a gun or driving a car. Thus a lot of people who need help only will seek it if such help will NOT be used against them in obtaining firearms. Do we what them to get help? Hopefully the answer to that question is yes. Once you say you want to encourage such people to seek help, punishing them for doing so has to be avoided. Furthermore it is PUNISHMENT as these people see it, not as you or I see it. Once you accept those unpleasant facts, the present system is the best of a series of bad options.

Footnote: One of the problem with such people is that when most of the old Sanitariums were closed they were to be replaced by neighborhood half way houses (more permanent then criminal half way houses, with some residents staying in the house the rest of their lives). This was part of the plan closing of those old Sanitariums that was never done, for it would cost money. Such treatment center and community housing would permit have permitted better integration with the community AND a place people with mental restriction could be housed safely. Implemented only in part and it is one of the great failure over the last 40-50 years.

[hack89]

3. There needs to be a way to track individuals like this. nt

[MADem]

8. People are freaking out because they think NSA is reading their email to Aunt Martha.

They'd freak out doubly if some "background check guys" had access to their MEDICAL records...!

[hack89]

22. That was one of NY state's solutions to Newtown.

I do agree that there would be privacy issues but then what solution wouldn't have such issues?

[Trillo]

31. +1000

I presume that the government and/or corporate has had full access to all our medical records for a very long time.

[glinda]

42. I was just informed by the V.A. that they performed one on me recently

in order to be appointed to help my father as fiduciary.

[Blue_Tires]

20. There is more than enough "tracking" already being done in this country, thank you very much....

[Myrina]

35. Agreed 1000%.

There needs to be fewer guns, more preventative (physical and mental) health access, and less of the stress in our society that leads people to do shit like he did.

[Snake Plissken]

4. Navy Yard gunman treated for paranoia and hearing voices in his head

So in other words he's like Wayne LaPierre and the rest of the mentally unstable gun nuts who are worried about background checks.

[Paladin]

6. Yeah, thank Christ a guy like this could get all the guns he wanted.

[tblue]

21. He was a "good guy with a gun" until

The NRA would say he still has a right to have a gun.

[MADem]

7. Untreated schizophrenia, then?

And he was working as a subcontractor to HP, which was contracted to swap out stuff for the NMCI, according to your (Moonie) Times cite:


Defense officials speaking on background said he was working as an information technology contractor, but it was not immediately known which company employed him or whether he was assigned to the Navy Yard.
Later, computer company Hewlett-Packard issued a statement: “We are deeply saddened by today’s tragic events at the Washington Navy Yard. Our thoughts and sympathies are with all those who have been affected. Aaron Alexis was an employee of a company called ‘The Experts,’ a subcontractor to an HP Enterprise Services contract to refresh equipment used on the Navy Marine Corps Intranet (NMCI) network. HP is cooperating fully with law enforcement as requested.”


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/16/navy-yard-gunman-identified-fbi/#ixzz2fAKb4jXI


I guess they've put to rest any conspiracy theories about three guys and a "coordinated" attack. This is now a "BACKGROUND CHECK" issue--a guy with serious, intractable mental illness was employed in a classified capacity and had access to a military intranet, and he also bought a gun without anyone batting an eye.

[Botany]

9. Sounds like a member of a well regulated militia

Because he needed his guns to keep a criminal big government from
taking his "freedoms."

[glinda]

43. Several "opportunities" to do checks all failed.So WHO let him through?

[MADem]

53. Good question. nt

[happyslug]

54. Schizophrenia is disordered thinking NOT hearing voices or being paranoid

I hate when people use the WRONG psychological diagnosis on a person. Schizophrenia is on the order of 1+1=b for b is the second letter in the alphabet. There is a logic there, but it is NOT what most people would call logical.

Genus and Schizophrenia appear to be related, how no one knows, but but it may be people with Schizophrenia do think "outside the box" and thus can understand more. Thus Schizophrenia does NOT appear to be a factor in crime, even violent crime more then any other factor.

Now people with schizophrenia can also be paranoid, split personality and hearing voices, but a lot of people can be paranoid, have a split personality and hear voices but NOT be suffer from Schizophrenia.

Now people who hear voices do have a greater chance of doing violence, as do people who are paranoid but that is different from suffering from Schizophrenia.

[kestrel91316]

56. Oh, dear.........where to begin......

I'll first start by saying that my mom was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia when I was 17, and my dad, my sister, and I had to deal with her for decades (well, my dad died years ago). My mom finally passed away when I was 55. So I know a thing or two about schizophrenia.

Schizophrenics very often suffer from extreme paranoia and delusions. Auditory and visual hallucinations are not as common, but they can also be part of the picture.

"Split personality" is one of those lay terms that has no place in a MEDICAL discussion of schizophrenia because it is meaningless and completely misleading. It's old terminology and the "split" refers to the patient's "split" from reality. Lay persons typically associate that term with MULTIPLE personality disorder, which has been proven to not exist - all the famous cases were fraudulent.

If somebody hears voices that aren't there, or sees someone gesturing to them when they aren't, those are hallucinations and the thinking that goes with them is called a delusion. It's a hallmark of schizophrenia.

You would do well to read up on it before blabbering such nonsense.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/schizophrenia/index.shtml#part4

I'm going to stop now before I REALLY start to light into you.

[happyslug]

61. You use the terms "often"

I have had to deal with Schizophrenics who did NOT have paranoid or delusions. I have been dealing with such people for 25 years. My point was simple and limited. Schizophrenia is a disordered mind, NOT paranoia, NOT split personality, not hearing voices, and NOT suffering from delusions.

As I pointed some Schizophrenics DO suffer from those conditions IN ADDITION TO Schizophrenia. I have also had clients who suffered from paranoia, hearing voices and delusions who did NOT suffer from Schizophrenia.

Psychologists have a narrow definitions of Schizophrenia

DSM-IV Criteria for Schizophrenia and other Psychotic Disorders
SCHIZOPHRENIA
Two or more symptoms, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1
month period
1. Delusions
2. Hallucinations
3. Disorganized speech
4. Grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
5. Negative symptoms

Social/occupational dysfunction
Continuous signs of disturbance persist for at least 6 months

Schizophrenia Sub-types

PARANOID TYPE
1. preoccupation with one or more delusions or frequent auditory hallucinations
None of the following are present: disorganized speech, disorganized or catatonic behavior, flat or inappropriate affect

DISORGANIZED TYPE

Disorganized speech, disorganized behavior, and flat or inappropriate affect are prominent

CATATONIC TYPE

Dominated by at least 2 of the following
Motoric immobility as evidenced by catalepsy (including waxy flexibility) or stupor
Excessive motor activity
Extreme negativism (motiveless resistance to instruction or maintenance of rigid posture) or mutism
Peculiarities of voluntary movement
Echolalia or echopraxia

RESIDUAL TYPE
Absence of prominent delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech, and grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
Continuing evidence of the disturbance as indicated by the presence of negative symptoms or 2 or more symptoms in an attenuated form

UNDIFFERENTIATED TYPE


http://www.dmacc.edu/instructors/tkwilson2/AbSchizophreniaDSM.pdf

http://www.brown.edu/Courses/BI_278/Other/Clerkship/Didactics/Readings/Schizophrenia.pdf

http://www.dnalc.org/view/899-DSM-IV-Criteria-for-Schizophrenia.html

Now, I rarely see someone with a real bad case of Schizophrenia, most of my clients have Schizophrenia but the debate for Social Security is how bad is it i.e have they reached the point where they can no longer work. Thus I rarely see someone who hears voices or have hallucinations. My Clients tend to have disorganized thinking and the "Negative Symptoms":

Catatonic symptoms include negativism, certain peculiar disturbances of voluntary activity known as catalepsy, posturing, stereotypies and echolalia or echopraxia.

Negativism is characterized by a mulish, automatic, almost instinctual opposition to any course of action suggested, demanded, or merely expected.

http://www.dnalc.org/view/899-DSM-IV-Criteria-for-Schizophrenia.html

I notice is the cites on line they mention the difference is onset for males and females, but restrict it to the term, it hits females later. In the DSM0-III, which I use to have, pointed out most males started to be affected by Schizophrenia in their teens, while it tends to hit females in their 20s.

Just pointing out I have dealt with Schizophrenia in the past and will do so in the future. Most of the cases I deal with do NOT suffer from delusions, hears voices or have hallucinations. There do suffer from disorganized thinking and the "Negative Symptoms" as do most people who have Schizophrenia but are employable. My clients tend to fit into Catatonic schizophrenia, Hebephrenic schizophrenia, Simple schizophrenia and Undifferentiated schizophrenia as opposed to what appears your mother had, Paranoid schizophrenia.

If you read the definitions of the various sub types, while delusions and hallucinations appear to be common in Paranoid Schizophrenia. they are absent in Catatonic schizophrenia (Through "Patients may shout, declaim, preach, and pontificate in an incoherent fashion&quot , Hebephrenic schizophrenia (Except to a very minor degree and only in some patients), Simple schizophrenia (again may be present but is rare) and Undifferentiated schizophrenia (Through depends on how close this is to one of the other types of schizophrenia).

Just explaining my comment on schizophrenia, it is broader then Paranoid schizophrenia and Paranoia is itself a different condition,

Paranoia in the DSM-IV:
http://www.darvsmith.com/dox/personalitydisorders.html

DSM-IV: Paranoid Personality Disorder
Individuals with this Cluster A Personality Disorder distrust others and are suspicious of their motives.
Diagnostic criteria for 301.0 Paranoid Personality Disorder (cautionary statement)

A. A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that their motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

(1) suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her

(2) is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates

(3) is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that the information will be used maliciously against him or her

(4) reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events

(5) persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults, injuries, or slights

(6) perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack

(7) has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner

B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia, a Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features, or another Psychotic Disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.
Note: If criteria are met prior to the onset of Schizophrenia, add "Premorbid," e.g., "Paranoid Personality Disorder (Premorbid).

http://www.cretin-derhamhall.org/files/cdh/files/Mons/Psych/DSM-IV%20Personality%20Disorders.pdf

People can be suffering from Schizophrenia and NOT be paranoid, they can be paranoid and not be suffering from Schizophrenia. That is the only point I was making.

[MADem]

60. Well, I've known a couple--more than a couple, four, to be precise-- of schizophrenics.

(Maybe more, but four I've known well, and they stand out.)

And, unmedicated, they heard voices.

And, unmedicated, they caused a shitload of ruckus, got very violent, lashed out, injured people while flailing about, believed the FBI or other enemies were "after" them, were paranoid, had to get "wrestled to the ground," and two of them ended up in psychiatric facilities until they could get their meds straightened out. The third one made life a living hell for her family until they could get her to a doc. The fourth one was medically noncompliant, and one day he grabbed a sword, attacked his own mother, who called the cops, and as a consequence he ended up doing the "suicide by cop" route.

Two of the four are doing well and stay pretty much medically compliant (they have attentive family members, which helps). The last two, well, one is dead, the other hospitalized once more, and that will probably be their repeated fate unless medical compliance somehow becomes fun.

I don't think it is a stretch to ask the question, "Untreated schizophrenia, then?" based on my experiences. I think those symptoms go together with that condition a fair amount of time, enough to speculate, certainly. The National Institute of Mental Health think so, too--they agree that these are very common symptoms, and my reasoning isn't out of line at all:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia-easy-to-read/index.shtml

1. Positive symptoms refer to a distortion of a person's normal thinking and functioning. They are "psychotic" behaviors. People with these symptoms are sometimes unable to tell what's real from what is imagined. Positive symptoms include:

Hallucinations: when a person sees, hears, smells, or feels things that no one else can. "Hearing voices" is common for people with schizophrenia. People who hear voices may hear them for a long time before family or friends notice a problem.
Delusions: when a person believes things that are not true. For example, a person may believe that people on the radio and television are talking directly to him or her. Sometimes people believe that they are in danger-that other people are trying to hurt them.
Thought disorders: ways of thinking that are not usual or helpful. People with thought disorders may have trouble organizing their thoughts. Sometimes a person will stop talking in the middle of a thought. And some people make up words that have no meaning.
Movement disorders: may appear as agitated body movements. A person with a movement disorder may repeat certain motions over and over. In the other extreme, a person may stop moving or talking for a while, a rare condition called "catatonia."....

[onehandle]

10. Was it the voice of Wayne LaPierre? nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. +1

Right you are.

[BadtotheboneBob]

11. The VA will take the rap for this...

Apparently he was treated by the VA for mental health issues. Many will ask why he wasn't adjudicated as mentally ill, thus denying him the ability to purchase firearms (except from private owners or certain gun shows). I am a DAV - Life Member and a VA patient/client and know a great many veterans (men and women) who are treated by the VA for mental health issues. I wonder now how quickly the VA will act to adjudicate those people, whether they are dangerous or not, in response to this. If so, you'll see a great many veterans stop going to the VA for treatment to avoid that. Having it on record could affect employment opportunities, rental applications etc. I don't know what the answer is, but I know that a rush to put all veterans with mental health issues in one pot is not one of them. But, mark my words, the VA will be under significant scrutiny after this incident and the VA leadership will act to protect themselves.

[Mojorabbit]

24. I wonder if he was off his meds?

You are right. Whenever something like this happens there will be a CYA move and sometimes an overreaction with unintended consequences in the other direction.

[BadtotheboneBob]

26. If he was prescribed them, it's quite possible...

Happens all the time. Not only with veterans, but with civilian mental health patients. I have a cousin, Alice, who has a severe diagnosis and she does it frequently. She stabbed her boyfriend once due to that and spent time in the state psychiatric forensic center. The VA does have social workers that check on patients frequently, particularly those that reside in "Vet Houses" i.e. a home that that has 4-6 vets and people that cook and clean for them and also ensure that they do take their meds. Many of those vets have been adjudicated. The Battle Creek VAMC (mainly a psych hospital) has a little courtroom and a federal magistrate will go there from Grand Rapids to handle such matters. But, for those that are not in that type of environment, it is almost impossible to ensure that every vet that is prescribed anti-depressants or other psychotropic drugs take them as required. The only ones that I can think of that have any monitoring are those that are involved with the court system and are probation. Non-compliance with meds is not just a VA problem when it comes to mental health issues.

[kestrel91316]

57. Unless he was in a facility and was being supervised or even forcibly given his meds,

he probably wasn't taking them.

I think the percentage of unsupervised schizophrenics who should be taking meds, have been prescribed them, and yet do not take them, is probably 90%+.

[caseymoz]

14. Who would want a gun more than a paranoid?

I think the background check quite deliberately has holes in it about such people.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. I have always said it is actually EASY to establish a list of people who shouldn't have guns.

Just make the NRA divulge their membership rolls.

[onehandle]

18. Snowden probably could provide us with that.

The NSA clearly has a copy.

[Guaguacoa]

16. He picked up the ar-15 and pistol from victim(s)

according to reports, but he should have never passed the background check for the shotgun.:

"Authorities investigating Monday’s D.C. shooting spree believe the gunman brought a shotgun, legally purchased from a suburban Virginia gun shop, to the Navy Yard and acquired additional weapons at the scene, according to three law enforcement officials.

The officials said Aaron Alexis of Fort Worth, Texas, a 34-year-old discharged Navy engineer, entered the building with a Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun that he’d purchased last week in Lorton, Va., and was later found with two additional weapons, a Glock handgun and an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/16/officers-shooter-may-have-picked-and-used-victimsw/

[onehandle]

17. Yep. All it takes is one legal gun to 'stop a good guy with a gun,' and take his gun.

Legal guns are the problem.

[Guaguacoa]

25. I'm not trying to be a wiseguy and

do not live in the US, but guns in the hands of the police is a problem? I would think disarming police would be more of a problem and obviously he got them from the wounded cop.

Didn't your VP say to "Buy a shotgun", which is what he had? Again, not trying to be a wiseguy, but this is supposed to be the recommended weapon by him. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think you will ever outlaw ALL guns and judging by here in mexico I'm not sure you would want to. Bad guys rob stores and kill at will here, in broad daylight, because they are the ones with guns. Stores are closed in our pueblo because of this.

[NickB79]

29. He used a run-of-the-mill hunting shotgun

And then picked up a rifle and two handguns from security he killed along the way.

What do you suggest we do, ban legal shotguns commonly used for hunting?

[onehandle]

30. He bought the shotgun within the last week.

Gun sales are the choke point.

Long waiting periods. Extensive background checks.

Frequently inspections and logging of All activity at gun stores.

Shutting down of gun shows. Make private sales illegal without government approval.

Want to sell your personal gun? Fill out a form and follow the rules.

I would add a billion dollars a year to the ATF's budget if I could.

[NickB79]

32. He waited a week before going onto the base

No state has ever had a waiting period longer than 7 days, as far as I know. Most only have 3-day waiting periods at best. I'm not opposed to waiting periods, but I don't consider them very effective in preventing crime IMO.

He passed the background check. Apparently his history of mental instability either wasn't in the system, or wasn't enough to disqualify him. Hopefully some of the executive orders the President is putting into effect will improve this in the future.

Inspections of gun stores wouldn't have stopped this, because he passed the background check. The store in this particular instance appears to have done everything legally. That said, more inspections couldn't hurt because there are shady dealers out there that need to be shut down.

He didn't buy his gun at a gun show, so I have no idea why that came up. I do agree with you about having all guns go through background checks, private sale or no.

And yes, the ATF is woefully underfunded.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

38. No. Maintain that extensive background checks be required for purchases of ALL guns.

If, for example, they did a background check for semi-automatic assault rifle but not one for a hunting shotgun, there's a breakdown of the system. In the end, a gun's a gun.

I have no problem in and of itself in people using shotguns for hunting, but that doesn't mean I don't think one should need to pass a background check to buy that shotgun.

[Guaguacoa]

47. Shotguns require background checks in the US.nt

[Guaguacoa]

48. No ar-15 used according to the la times.

It says he had the shotgun and picked up a pistol:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-aaron-alexis-navy-yard-shotgun-20130917,0,5976376.story

[philosslayer]

50. Well, yes actually

Unless you're in a militia.

[kestrel91316]

59. Untreated schizophrenics shouldnt' be allowed within 100 ft of a gun, let alone own or possess one.

[Sunlei]

19. all these big contractors, corps like HP, are encouraged to hire our returning Vets first

And this man was a Vet. and these wars were very hard on our Military peoples mental health.

[freshwest]

23. And the need for more health care before something happens.

[The Wizard]

27. Were the voices in his head

or was he hearing voices? There is a difference.

[valerief]

28. "Give that man as many guns as he wants!" Gungeoneer logic. nt

[hack89]

33. Because there are so many here saying exactly that.

[hack89]

34. He was in my area last month acting crazy

Aaron Alexis, the gunman who killed 12 people at the Navy Yard in Washington, D.C, before being shot and killed, was in Newport and Middletown in August, according to sources close to the investigation. He reportedly had an interaction with the Newport Police Department at that time. Sources said when police responded, he was demonstrating paranoid thoughts, claimed he was being followed and thought he "had a chip in his head."

http://portsmouth.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/navy-yard-gunman-had-interactions-with-newport-police-last-month

[Myrina]

36. Oh great, the new Manchurians ...

Wouldn't surprise me a bit, knowing our military, actually.

[hack89]

37. As a retired Navy officer I am curious what you mean by that statement. nt

[MADem]

40. What an obtuse and senseless remark.

This was a shooter with serious, unmedicated mental illness who went into a building and murdered 12 people, mostly civilians, the oldest seventy three years old.

This has nothing to do with "Manchurian Candidates" or anything of that nature.

Not the lowest or most classless remark I've seen on DU, but definitely not your finest hour.

[BadtotheboneBob]

46. And how exactly do you "know" our military?

Is it by regular contact with a great many of them? Or, is it by your intuition? Or, is it simply that you just plain don't like the military which causes you to make fallacious and bigoted statements at the drop of a hat? Which is it?

[Myrina]

49. Ohferchristsakes

What the hell has happened to this place??
Every fucking body lives to piss all over every word and every OPINION everyone has.

READ MY DAMN SIG LINE.

[MADem]

52. Offachrissake, indeed. You said a woefully misinformed and cruel thing that deeply offended

those of us who served in uniform.

Add to that, the fact that we've had an all-volunteer military for many decades, now, and your entire "Manchurian" notion is just a load of ignorance based on a stupid film from a half century ago.

It's not just an opinion when you're insulting DUers with your comments. Your sig line doesn't cover those kinds of remarks.

[BadtotheboneBob]

55. Yeah...

... what you said... Thanks

[glinda]

44. I would not object to a brain-scan on him seriously.....

[MADem]

39. Most of the victims were civilians, between the ages of 43 and 73.

It's just terrible.

[kiranon]

45. Perhaps he was intentionally selecting older people unless

the civilian workforce there is older than usual. Or they were slower getting out of the way.

[MADem]

51. Who knows? I think the guy was unmedicated and not thinking straight. For all we know those

older people looked like "evildoers" in his paranoid head.

I can't believe that it isn't SOP to YANK a clearance--immediately--when someone gets an RE-4 or their DD214. If it turns out to be a "no biggie" then they can get it back. But if it's something like this, the application for a clearance would permit investigators to check the guy's records, and this would have been caught.

I'm looking at the victims on CBS news and I'm just sick.