11 shot in Chicago park, no fatalities immediately reported

[Tx4obama]

Source: CNN

(CNN) -- A child and 10 adults were hit by gunfire in a park on the South Side of Chicago late Thursday night.

All the victims were alive when transported to various hospitals, deputy fire chief James Mungovan said.

The shooting was reported about 10:15 p.m. Central Time.

No suspects were in custody late Thursday.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/20/justice/chicago-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

---

Multiple people (11), including 3-year-old, shot at South Side park

11:10 pm CT, September 19, 2013

Eleven people, including a 3-year-old child, were shot at a Chicago park in the Back of the Yards neighborhood tonight, authorities said.

An Emergency Medical Services Plan 2 was called for the incident in the 1800 block of West 51st Street in the Back of the Yards neighborhood after emergency crews were called to the scene, according to the Chicago Fire Department's media office. There were reports of 10 people shot, according to the Fire Department. The attack took place about about 10:15 p.m.

One of the people shot was a young child, perhaps a 3-year-old, a source said, citing preliminary information. A total of 11 people were shot, including the 3-year-old, who was shot in the face, according to another source.

The shootings appeared to have taken place on a basketball court on the 51st Street side of Cornell Square Park near Wood Street. Ambulances were still responding about half an hour after the shootings took place, as injured people were still being brought out of the park on stretchers. About 60 police officers were on the scene.

-snip-

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/545/article/p2p-77478313/

[Beacool]

1. Shootings in the South Side of Chicago?

Nahhh, that can't be possible. Actually, a day without shootings in Chicago would be an unprecedented event.

[delrem]

3. 11 shot.

[Beacool]

7. Terrible.

It never ends.

[delrem]

8. I think it can be contained if there's both good will and determination.

Also people have to believe that it can be contained, that containment is in fact the natural state, so arguments in that direction, which Republicans will NEVER agree to, are nevertheless valid.

[CreekDog]

10. ah, just a typical day in your mind, 11 people shot

what an embarassment you just did to the person in your avatar, a person whom I like.

Hillary is from Chicago. If she knew what you just said, she's probably feel like you are her are on different planets.

Good job there.

[Beacool]

12. Are you going to say that people are not being shot on a daily basis in Chicago?

Chicago has become a shooting gallery. Save your sanctimonious comment for someone else.

[CreekDog]

13. Ok, I will save my sanctimonious comment if you make a deal with me

Save your jokey, dopey comment minimizing the seriousness of this shootings because shootings often happen in Chicago.

In that case I will take back my comment.

If you delete yours.

What if Hillary were watching? Do you think she would say what you said about a Chicago shooting, making light of it?

I don't. Maybe you think you support a candidate that would say what you said.

She doesn't and you don't.

But would a Republican make fun of it the way you did?

YUP. you bet they would. That's what you sounded like, not Hillary.

[Beacool]

36. I write what I mean and I would say it in person too.

Unlike many who hide behind a keyboard (this is not a comment about you). Chicago's gun violence is out of control. Of course it's a tragedy when so many people get shot, particularly when it involves children. My point is that these kinds of situations have become all too common in Chicago.

[Recursion]

15. 11 in a day may have been normal in '94 or '95. Certainly not now

Chicago, like most big US cities, has seen a huge drop in violent crime in 20 years. Signs of the old days are not to be yawned over.

[Beacool]

45. I don't know how bad it was there in the 90s.

But it must have been a war zone if what they have now is an improvement. It's sad, most of the people killed are young. It's even sadder when children get caught in the crossfire.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

65. The current homicide rate in Chicago

is about half of what it was in the early 1990's. Chicago has a very persistent problem with gang activity, with more that 500 identified street gangs in the city. They don't operate under the traditional "command and control" structure of a street gang -- they're more like feral cats with firearms. This shooting? Was probably a retaliation for a shooting last week or even last month.

[Beacool]

71. Terrible.

I bet that most of those shot had nothing to do with the shooters.

[7962]

67. But its still the most violent city in the country

And a city where handguns are not allowed.

[maxsolomon]

78. per capita NOLA is significantly worse

but go ahead and grind that "handguns are banned" canard.

[7962]

79. I said "violent", and I'm correct. N.O. has way more murders, but Chicago WAY more violent crime

Per 100k residents, Chicago dwarfs New Orleans in robberies and aggravated assaults. There's another factor that no one ever wants to mention that factors in these numbers too. Its the elephant in the room.

[maxsolomon]

80. moar gunz then?

is that supposed to fix things? i keep reading comments similar to your's every time there's a shooting in Chicago - that "handguns are banned".

yes, we know all about it.

[7962]

83. No, actually I dont think that at all. The cork (guns) is out of the bottle.

About the only point I try to make about guns is that there would be a difference IF there were NO guns. But they're here and if we make them all illegal, we'll still get the same results; criminals will still have them. People arent going to turn them in. I'm not against gun laws that would help keep them away from mental cases. Not against hi-cap bans either.

[mucifer]

19. It's not funny! I know people who live around there.

I hope you can apologize and delete your post.

[Duckhunter935]

27. No not funny

Truth and until the public will not shelter these gang thugs nothing will change. How many will conveniently not talk to or will forget things to help the police. Oh and that's right all police are pigs around here.

Very sad situation.

[Beacool]

37. I wasn't trying to be funny.

Just disgusted that the violence in Chicago continues unabated. How many times in the last few years have we read of multiple people being shot and killed in that city?

[mucifer]

41. Guess what, there is a lot of misinformation about my city:

But even with its 17 percent spike in murders in 2012, Chicago was far from the deadliest city in America. Our murder rate, 18.5 per 100,000 residents according to preliminary FBI data, was 21st in the nation, better than Atlanta, Philadelphia, Baltimore, St. Louis, New Orleans and Detroit, to name a few.

Chicago also wasn’t even close to the most dangerous city in America last year, ranking 43rd in overall per capita violent crime in preliminary data.
Further, we’re not experiencing an “epidemic” of murder, per the talking heads. Nor is the city’s homicide rate “spiral(ing) out of control,” as a guest essayist on these pages put it Wednesday.
In the first six months of 2013, Chicago Police reported 184 murders, 26 percent fewer than last year in that time frame and the lowest raw number since 1965.

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2013/07/chicagocrime.html

another article:

Despite the familiar media refrain that Chicago is the nation’s murder capital, the “windy city” does not even qualify as one of the nation’s top 25 most dangerous cities for homicide. Yes, in sheer numbers Chicago leads the nation’s cities in murders, but its per capita murder rate is lower than forty other cities with populations above 40,000 residents. In 2011, the last year where records have been tabulated to compare cities, according to FBI statistics, Chicago, with a per capita murder rate of 15.9/per 100,000 residents, ranked behind over three dozen other American cities.

In 2011, the city’s murder rate was less than half that of the cities of New Orleans (57.6/per 100,00), Detroit (48.2) and St. Louis (35.3). Chicago’s homicide rate was also lower than such unremarkable cities as Ft. Myers, FL (31.7) Pine Bluff, AR (24.3), Dayton, OH (23.3) Rocky Mount, NC (20.6), Gulfport, MS (17.6) and Harrisburg, PA (16.1). Although Chicago has a reputation for being a deadly city, a resident’s odds of being murdered there in a given year are about 1 in 6250. By comparison, a New Orleans resident has roughly a 1 in 1750 chance of being killed in a homicide over a twelve month period. Thus, a New Orleans resident is more than three times as likely to become a murder victim in his hometown than a resident of Chicago.

Gun control opponents have often seized on Chicago as their example to “prove” that gun control is a total failure, by repeating the false claim that it has the nation’s highest murder rate. While Chicago is indeed a relatively violent city, the fact that it ranks behind a number of other cities with more relaxed gun laws, at least calls into question the logic of that argument. In addition, it should be noted that Chicago’s record year for homicides was 1974 when they had 970 murders, well above the total of 506 recorded last year.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/11/chicagos-homicide-rate-rank-top-american-cities.html


I have to reinforce that I believe your post was very cold hearted. I think you have the right to say what you believe at DU. This is a discussion board and should be a place to discuss important issues. That said, I really don't like your post.

[former9thward]

51. The FBI says Chicago is murder capital of U.S.

Has more murders than NYC even with 1/3 the population.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/18/fbi-chicago-passes-new-york-as-murder-capital-of-u-s/

[mucifer]

56. I think you should read your link a little closer you seemed to have missed the third paragraph:

But residents of Chicago and New York were much less likely to be victims of a homicide than residents of Flint, Mich. Sixty-three murders occurred in 2012 in Flint, a city of 101,632, meaning one in every 1,613 city residents were homicide victims. Detroit, which experienced 386 homicides in 2012, was almost as unsafe; that’s enough murders to account for one in every 1,832 residents.

It's the difference between sheer numbers and per capita.

[former9thward]

57. You are supposed to compare apples with apples.

Chicago is a major city like NYC with a large militarized police force like NYC. The cities you highlight are not major. Flint is 1/25 the size of Chicago. Detroit is no longer a major city and has no end of problems which make its rate high.

[mucifer]

59. It depends how you look at it. I'm a hospice nurse who sometimes does night visits

all over Chicago. I think it's fair to say that there are smaller cities that actually are much more dangerous than Chicago. You might want to say that it only matters to compare big cities.

I will agree with you that there are parts of Chicago that are very dangerous.

I just wish they wealthy weren't so damn greedy. I think it's all about shipping jobs overseas. It causes lots of desperation. That said, there were more murders decades ago than there are now.

[former9thward]

61. Yes, I lived in Chicago in 1974 when the number of murders reached 974.

In 1992 there were 943. So there certainly have been peaks and the number of murders is down from those years. Many jobs have been shipped overseas, out of state and out of city. There used to be steel mills in Chicago. They provided a well to do middle class standard of living for about 20,000 workers. All gone now.

[Tx4obama]

2. The AP - article link

Here: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/several-wounded-chicago-park-shooting-0

[geomon666]

4. Is the gun ok?

Somebody check on the gun!

[KamaAina]

60. DUzy!!

[Tx4obama]

5. UPDATE: Four in critical condition, five serious, two stable. Video on link below

Video here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/20/chicago-park-shooting_n_3959062.html

[Loudly]

6. Why did this happen?

Because guns and ammunition are in the hands of the public.

[Tx4obama]

9. Update: TWELVE people were shot

12 people, including 3-year-old, shot at South Side park

Twelve people, including a 3-year-old child, were shot at a Chicago park in the Back of the Yards neighborhood Thursday night, authorities said.

Ten adults and the 3-year-old were transported by Fire Department ambulances after in the attack in the 1800 block of West 51st Street in the Back of the Yards neighborhood, said Fire Department Deputy District Chief James Mungovan. A 12th victim was believed to have driven himself to Little Company of Mary Hospital in Evergreen Park, a source said, citing preliminary information.

-snip-

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-multiple-people-including-3yearold-shot-in-south-side-attack-20130919,0,352520.story

[grantcart]

11. We need to rework the quota system. We are way over production on these.

[Recursion]

14. Black victims mean the media won't soul search for a "reason" behind the killings

Don't look for any exposes on psychotropic drugs or video games from this.

Nobody will ask if the killer "had a grudge" or "was disgruntled" or "was a terrorist", nor why he was allowed into the park.

[Puzzledtraveller]

39. ^^this^^

[Eleanors38]

70. Yup. And very little of that here as well.

[Tx4obama]

16. Update: List of names and ages of the THIRTEEN (13) people shot on link below

Here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-multiple-people-including-3yearold-shot-in-south-side-attack-20130919,0,352520.story

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. 3 y.o. boy shot in the head - in critical condition (nt)

[Nanjing to Seoul]

18. Cue gundamentalists spouting NRA talking points ins 5. . .4. . .3. . .2. . .1. . .

[LAGC]

20. Nah, I think we should enforce Chicago's strict gun control policies nation-wide.

Because they are working so well for Chicago...

[Nanjing to Seoul]

21. yeah. . .we need more good guys with guns.

[LAGC]

22. Perhaps if a certain noisy segment quit trying to restrict certain inanimate objects...

People would quit rushing out to buy more of them?

Just a thought.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

23. I want a howitzer to protect my family. I want an M60 to go squirrel hunting.

Go away, gundamentalist.

[ileus]

25. A G21 makes a better SD/HD firearm.

for home defense of course an AR and/or 12ga shotgun also are fine choices. Howitzers are just to large and loud for common self defense, unless you're Syrian.

and most states won't allow a 308 for squirrels, a nice 22 or 20ga work just fine.

[Neoma]

26. Strict gun policies in Chicago had been dropped, last I heard.

[DonP]

38. Not really

Chicago is still appealing all the judgements against it in court. Ezell v. Chicago is due to come up again in a month or so. (Ezell = No gun stores or ranges in the city)

And they just passed new laws trying to avoid complying with the new CCW laws. That will take them back to court again.

Rahm has already written checks for over $3 million in legal fees.

[Neoma]

75. They allow handguns now, but "only in your home."

They didn't used to let them have them period.

[ileus]

24. "appears to be gang related"

Just now on the TODAY show...


Why can't cities keep their gangs and drugs under control.

[surrealAmerican]

28. In Chicago ...

... the police have been going after the most influential gang leaders and arresting them. This has actually lead to more violence. Without "strong" leadership, gangs fragment and fight over things that their leaders would have settled. Suffice to say, it's complicated. It looks likes the city's trying to do something, but it's making things worse, not better.

[warrant46]

33. So arresting gang leaders lets the rest of the unwashed

go crazy and start shooting when they are "disrespected"

because the gang then has no discipline or chain of command to tell them what not to do.

How about trying to go after the drug trade which is how these thugs make a living to get $$$, Bling, girls, Lexus Cars and buy expensive guns

[Supersedeas]

63. the authorities need to do more and more and more and more and more and more

go after the guns, the gangs, the drug trade, maybe the $$$, the Bling, the girls, the cars too?

if only the police state could control all that and more

[beevul]

66. The best, and perhaps the only effective way to...

The best, and perhaps the only effective way to "go after the drug trade", is to take it out of the hands its in, and put it in hands that would not be killing others in support of it.


That is to say: Legalize and regulate as much of it as can be safely done.

[Supersedeas]

62. Wrong question

[Eleanors38]

72. It's called WOD Ltd. One of the Mexican cartel run the show in Chi.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. Guns flood in from the "legitimate" dealers and owners - straight to the gang bangers

Every single gun used in a gang shooting was once a "legitimate" gun, produced by the gun manufacturers, at the very least, and most likely transferred to the licensed dealers, and perhaps bought by a "responsible" gun owner. There are no underground gun manufacturers - every gun starts as a legal gun. So how do they get into the hands of the gang bangers? By magic? By a million and one domestic burglaries, as the gun nut shitheads pretend? By gun truck hijacking, and similar fantasies? No, they get into the hands of the criminals and gang bangers through an licit-to-illicit pipeline that everybody in the gun industry profits from, and everybody fucking knows it.

Gun nut shitheads will flock to this thread, crowing about Chicago's ineffectual gun restrictions, tra la la. They know damn well that these guns are sold to the gangs by "legitimate" dealers and owners in the licit-to-illicit pipeline, which the gun manufacturers, dealers, and owners do nothing to stop, when they are not actively supporting it. White people (dealers, owners) downstate and in Indiana sell guns directly and indirectly to the gangs - and make large profits from it non-stop. Meanwhile, gun nut shitheads and their Masters in the gun industry do everything they can to prevent enforcement of laws that stop up the pipeline.

Then they come and laugh about black and brown people killing each other on the South and West sides of Chicago. These people are fucking scum of the Earth. Gun nut shitheads are racist fucking scum, and indirect murderers.

[hack89]

30. Time to increase the size of the ATF and crack down on gun trafficking.

getting the dirty dealers is the best way to stop this flow of guns.

[ileus]

31. maybe some stop and frisk also.

[madrchsod]

42. it`s been tried before but the dealers find away around any scrutiny.

even if illinois cracked down on the dealers the gangs would get them somewhere else.

[hack89]

43. It has to be a federal effort. nt

[The Magistrate]

47. A Pleasure To Be In Agreement With You, Sir

Illegal traffic in guns needs to be stopped, and this will require a major effort by Federal authorities. Neither local law enforcement nor local regulations can dent it.

[Niceguy1]

32. how did you detrmine

The race of the dealers selling to the chicago gangs?

[warrant46]

34. The Poster has a magic 8-Ball

Or just a psychic ability to divine the race of a business person.

Maybe "Voices" in his/her head might have correctly/incorrectly influenced the opinion

[madrchsod]

40. really? i guess you have`t been following this story for years now.

there`s a whole lot of info that has been reported about where these guns are coming from.
there`s no voices in his /her head because i also know about this problem.or maybe i hear voices
by your comments you sure in the hell do`t know anything about the chicago gangs

oh by the way i live 100 miles from chicago and several black and latino chicago gangs have moved out here.

[warrant46]

44. Actually since the Bears (Football team) is from there

Chicago really doesn't interest me all that much. Especially as a retired ex-law enforcement person.

But I do know from my union contacts that Mayor Rahm Emanuel is trying to bust the Chicago Teachers Union.

Meanwhile armed gangs roam the streets of Chicago with impunity. Demanding respect and guarding "territory"

And since the last time I checked Crack, Heroin and Crystal Meth (Ice) were still illegal.

How about Emanuel trying to go after the drug trade, which is how these thugs make a living to get $$$, Bling, girls, Lexus Cars and buy expensive guns. You can buy anything in Chicago with $$$ if you have enough, even Class III firearms.(Which are totally illegal)

[freebrew]

48. Going after the 'Drug Trade'

would mean putting a lot of innocent pot smokers in jail. Much easier to bust pot users than to go after the real criminals. So that's what the cops do. Makes the stats look real good so they get more and more $$ to bust more pot users/dealers.

No matter the law, people will get what they think they need to survive, guns, meth, heroin, etc.

As stated somewhere before, the police have created their own problems. The people can't trust them, refuse to testify or witness to crimes for fear of retribution from gangs or sometimes the police.

The police have proved that they cannot be trusted to carry guns, either.

[warrant46]

49. I would agree there are a number of Bad LEOs

However it's the THC laws that need to be revised. Even totally decriminalized.

The hard core Drug Warriors still believe THC is a gateway drug and totally ignore alcohol.

The hard drugs I've cited are the most destructive

Crystal Meth is by far the worst of the bunch

[AngryAmish]

50. This is most likely a beef between one small gang and another

The top membership of most gangs have been put away over the last few years. The violence today has more to do with shithead group A disses shithead group B and then they start shooting. THis is long but good http://www.wired.com/underwire/?p=226351

Also, the drug business has gotten a lot more centralized and businesslike over the years. There are fewer open air drug markets.

This is a good primer about the Sinoala Cartel and their connection to Chicago http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2013/Sinaloa-Cartel/

[warrant46]

74. The modern day Mafia

Enlightening

[madrchsod]

35. +1

[The Magistrate]

46. Too True, Sir --- And On All Counts

Including the arrival of shit-heels from 'Team NRA'....

[bullwinkle428]

53. This post cuts through all of the NRA-perpetrated bullshit.

[Eleanors38]

73. See #72

[Sunlei]

52. no store cams that recorded the car? It was 5pm!

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. It says 10:15pm in the OP (nt)

[Sunlei]

55. even then, a car drove to the park area, sprayed bullets and then drove away.

A brown Malibu. Aren't there any cams in that area?

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. After dark, it might be difficult to see the plates (nt)

[gopiscrap]

64. yeah and the God damn NRA is going to say guns aren't the problem.

[7962]

68. Theyre not. The PEOPLE are the problem. The CULTURE is the problem.

Handguns are, for the most part, ILLEGAL in Chicago. Yet these worthless criminals STILL have them. If we started out with NO guns ANYWHERE it might be different, but since there are 300 million of them, its too late. You could make them illegal everywhere, do you think the crooks would give them up? no. We have to quit filling jail cells with pot smokers and START filling them with gun-toting thugs who will shoot anyone for any reason.
No one wants to look at the real reason this shit happens. The elephant in the room. If it was the gun, then Norway and Switzerland should be racking up the murders too.

[Adam-Bomb]

76. Thank you.

Absolutely spot on. Unfortunately folks cannot or will not see the truth.

The real tragedy is folk's unwillingness to do anything about this problem.

[warrant46]

82. The Culture is the problem

When you are disrespected you shoot, stab or use a pipe or a bat to batter someones skull into a squashed melon.

[7962]

84. You got it. But nobody on DU will finish the story all the way through.

Because you get accused of being everything but a human, referred to a jury, comments hidden, etc.

[warrant46]

86. I've seen a lot of that

In the last 6 months. When I lurked here years ago the PC was almost non-existent. The truth is ignored or reviled in many cases.

[muriel_volestrangler]

77. Four held over Chicago park shooting

Four Chicago men have been charged over a shooting with a military-grade weapon that wounded 13 people at a city park.

Tabari Young, 22, and Bryon Champ, 21, are accused of attempted murder and aggravated battery over last week's attack at a basketball court.

Police say that Brad Jett, 22, acted as lookout, while Kewane Gatewood, 20, supplied the gun.
...
Police say Young, who was arrested on Tuesday, was the primary gunman, using an assault-style weapon with a high-capacity ammunition magazine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24228926

[ancianita]

81. Thanks. Finally some police work. Rahmbo doesn't want to be made to look bad and the pressure's on.

I've lived in Chicago for the last forty years, and Heller v. DC is part of the problem here, not just a corporate technocratic mayor conducting class war on education and social services.

[Lasher]

85. Here's more

According to reports, the mass shooting stemmed from a gang conflict, which took place earlier last week. Reportedly, Champ was hurt during a gang-related shooting last week and decided to take revenge against the rival gang by indiscriminately opening fire at Cornell Square Park, which they considered to be the rival gang’s turf.

Champ was aided by Young and Gatewood, who according to Chicago Tribune, supplied the AK-47-style rifle used in the shooting while Jett acted as a lookout.

http://www.ibtimes.com/4-men-charged-thursdays-chicago-park-shooting-has-been-attributed-gang-conflict-1410558