Developing: Chardon High School in Geauga County is on lockdown right now after a shooting.

[titaniumsalute]

This is all of the details so far. Stay tuned. This is Cardon, OH. just east of Cleveland. This is per 640 WHLO News in Akron.

‎4 Life Flight helicopters are on their way to Chardon. 3 victims are reportedly in critical condition, 1 stable.

UPDATE: http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/232710/396/Report-of-shooting-at-Chardon-High-School

Reports say that police have contained both shooters.


UPDATE: FBI says there are 5 Chardon victims.

[Botany]

1. Oh no

Damn this is sad .... Chardon is a beautiful town.

[Justice wanted]

2. OMG...what is going on with the school shootings lately?

[titaniumsalute]

4. We don't know yet if the shooter was a teen(s)

and I would say too many unstable PEOPLE in general have access to guns.

[Fuddnik]

11. Per a tweet from student on the scene.

"A student in the cafeteria jumped up and started shooting".

www.cleveland.com

[xchrom]

17. wow -- horrifying. nt

[sakabatou]

10. There may be inadequate access to mental health help in the area

[yardwork]

25. There is inadequate access to mental health care everywhere in the U.S.

[alp227]

40. The Reagan/limited government legacy.

No to mental health services because that is BIG GOVERNMENT, so it's up to the citizens to use their 2A rights and arm themselves in case of an armed nutcase.

[Posteritatis]

60. And lots of citizen-level stigmatization of mental illness in general too, of course

A lot of it can go to Reagan as far as the treatment conditions, but even DU's attitude towards mental illness is often pretty vile.

[pipoman]

42. Ding, Ding, Ding

We have a winner. Lack of mental health services and addiction services are the biggest factor in many of these violent acts. Think of all of the notorious cases and how the criminal is almost always mentally ill. The most recent 20 years of decreasing violence in the US has been attributed by many to access to abortion services. I believe the next move in once again starting a rapid decline in violent crime is access to mental health services for anyone at any time.

[montanto]

56. The part that is surprising is that

so few are concerned with the problems kids have that lead up to this type of behavior. We only care after a shooting, and then we only care about the gun.

[virginia mountainman]

8. Their are actully less school shootings today..

The change is the vast coverage MSM with the 24hr news cycle gives every "incident" no matter how minor, where even if a kid left a hunting rifle in their car, now makes national headlines.

[barbtries]

13. less as opposed to when?

and how many are okay?

[virginia mountainman]

18. In the past, school shootings where much more common..

BUT, they where not widely reported.

In the age of the 24 hr news cycle, if it bleeds it leads, and for weeks and weeks, this shooting will be in the news, even though it seems that no one was killed (as of press time). Their was many violent acts in the past, in schools that where not widely reported. In on instance Andrew Kehoe a school official, spent days, packing the crawl spaces of a school with explosives and blew the school sky high, and killed some more people after the blast with a car bomb...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Our memories are very short when it comes to school killings. And statistically today, their is far less killings in our schools than even 20 years ago.

BTW, I NEVER said, any school shootings where ok, Stop making things up...

[Kolesar]

19. Uh, not in Chardon, Mr. Sloganeer...eom

[Posteritatis]

59. Something happening someplace does not mean it is happening more often. (nt)

[barbtries]

24. no, you never said that school shootings are okay.

you just said "actually, there are less today than in the past" - what was your purpose in offering that information? (to which i would like to see some specifics, some proof)

are you asserting that violent acts such as what happened today were not reported in the past? i don't believe that. thanks to the internet more people may be getting the news, but stories such as this were always news.

sure, violence has always happened, but i don't see it lessening. in the past (only) 5 years, TWO shootings with fatalities just on ONE CAMPUS (VT), just as an example off the top of my head. another poster in a related thread stated that this is the second school shooting in a very short time span just within the area of CLEVELAND.

the subtext of jumping into this particular thread with your "good news" is, in my opinion, your way of saying, nothing to see here. but there is lots to see when people are, over and over, deliberately going out and murdering or attempting to murder multiple people in one place at one time.

we need to get a handle on the violence in our society, and offering that it used to be worse just does not cut it. it's BAD. very, very BAD.

[pipoman]

41. In post #2

the poster implied some sort of new upsurge. Seems the poster was replying with his belief that there are not more than ever now. The poster didn't support their comment with statistics, he needs none to counter that claim.

Every time something like this happens there are people running around with their hair afire screaming how there is some sort of epidemic of school shootings when there really isn't.

we need to get a handle on the violence in our society, and offering that it used to be worse just does not cut it. it's BAD. very, very BAD.

OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, GOD, GOD!!1!!1

Violent crime in the US has been on a 20 year decline. You feel free to cite anecdotal cases if you please, but nobody has ever said shit don't happen, just that actual violent crime stats indicate a long term decline in violent crime, including shootings.

Any suggestions just how to accomplish this, or just more OH MY GOD!1!

Access (easy and cheap) to mental health services and addiction services might be a good start, IMHO.

[barbtries]

45. i'm not seeing it.

and as a person who believes that one unjustly dead body is one too many, i cannot help but believe that as a country we are way too violent. i will not apologize for that and your making fun of me does not advance your argument.

[pipoman]

50. Solutions come from truth, not perception

Nobody likes these things, and there are options to reduce them. People die unjustly every day in every way and always will. If we act to reduce these incidents, the numbers of actual victims will be reduced..statistical data is the key to truth. The statistical data compiled by the DOJ indicate a long period of decline in violent crime.

[Posteritatis]

64. Gotta love insinuations of sinister motives in response to statements of facts... (nt)

[bread_and_roses]

26. Please provide statistical data

I am not claiming you are incorrect - I don't claim to know how many school shootings there were twenty years ago, much less when I was in HS in the 60's. I would simply like to see the data going back, say, 50 years. I don't consider 20 years long enough, since the years since then have seem the victory of the 1% crushing the poor and working class via outsourcing/off - shoring/dismantling the safety net/union busting/etc. And twenty years ago we were well into the disintegration of our cities for the poor and working class, as well as the decline of unions. So, twenty years is not far back enough. Thank you.

[melm00se]

31. I have not vetted the sources

used to create this entry but it is a very interesting read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#List_of_school_shootings

[bread_and_roses]

46. That is a list of incidents, not a statistical analysis (n/t)

[pipoman]

51. Maybe nobody has done statistical analysis

but it isn''t hard to see a reduction from the 1990's in the 2000's numbers.

[bread_and_roses]

65. True. We can also see though that within the decade of the '00's

there was a year with 38 deaths - which surpasses three of the years in the '90's. (The '90's were horrific - when I say I don't remember how many, I am talking about not remembering the exact number, not about how awful the number was. My "emotional memory" of them is very strong, as my dtr was in HS in those years.)

And the Wiki article seems to have no summary data for the '60's or before - actually, I think for the 80's or before. And since we are, I think, talking about student-on-student shootings when we discuss "school shootings" the earlier list have many incidences include things like jealous spouse comes to school to shoot spouse" that would have to be eliminated.

The 90's were, as I said, horrific,, and the 80's not much better. My interest in seeing the data beyond the past twenty years arises from a number of factors, but among them the question of whether or not when we talk about "less now" we are talking about merely a return to what we in US might consider a "normal" number of school shootings, ie, a number similar to that in eras prior to the 80's-90's? Or, if the #s in the 90's were actually "normal" given the earlier decades, which would make a lower trend now far more significant, it seems to me, than if we are merely returning to an appalling "norm."

I am no statistician - just an interested observer. However, I do not think that mere lists of numbers, perhaps not even compiled using the exact same criteria, is very useful.

[intaglio]

68. Here are statistics

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/

with appropriate added references

There has been a decline in overall violence

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. ABC and CBS are reporting that the have only gotten one of the gunmen.

http://www.wafb.com/story/17024182/breaking-chardon

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sheriff-shooting-ohio-school-victims-unknown-15799648#.T0uMWXlfTwo

Other reports are saying only one gunman.

[FedUpWithIt All]

15. I keep seeing conflicting reports on the number too.

Earlier they said one was trying to escape down rt. 6. I've heard that they are calling only one a gunman and the other and accomplice. Not sure what that is meant to convey exactly. Just horrible.

[HughBeaumont]

7. Just texted my kid to be safe out there. Violence knows no zip code.

Chardon's pretty east of where I live. Kind of a more remote suburban area famous for their record snowfalls; no different than many others around here.

This is the second school shooting this month in the Cleveland area.

[babydollhead]

9. just read"We need to talk about Kevin"

Lionel Shriver approaches the tragedy of a high-school massacre from the point of view of the killer's mother.
chilling. made me afraid of my own teen in our house.

[brooklynite]

12. Update: 4 students injured; suspect in custody

per CNN

[barbtries]

14. live stream

http://www.wlwt.com/r-video/30549298/detail.html

1 gunman has been caught; 4 injured. very little news being released as of yet it appears.

[MarkCharles]

16. 3 male students, 1 female student injured, one suspect in custody

Per MSNBC.

No word on the medical status of any of the victims.

Parents arriving to escort their students home

Emergency drills for events like this in that school at least 2 times a year, according to one parent's report.

[Kolesar]

20. Ok. That makes four of my neighbors who have been shot this year

I live in the district next door, so I can call them neighbors.
Great job, gun industry, you are really taking care of your customers!!

[titaniumsalute]

21. I'm certainly not a gun nut

But you can't blame a gun for violence in this case. It takes two to tango. A gun needs to bought (stolen), loaded, and fired by a human. Obviously there is a very sick human behind this. How did that person fall through the cracks? What kinds of parents are there (or not there?)

I agree that guns are readily available and not much is done to keep them out of people's hands who are unstable. However, this goes deeper than just a gun problem. We have a people problem.

[pipoman]

53. So in your world

in the absence of a gun , this kid would have done nothing? Nonsense.

In my world people who need mental health services can't get them.

[Kolesar]

55. That was disconnected and baffling

You don't have to try again, though. I am ok with that.

[titaniumsalute]

71. But your point is correct

We now also know this kid came from a violent family. Yes I think guns can make it easier to kill or hurt, but this kid was probably going to snap and use anything from a gun to a butter knife.

[liberalhistorian]

22. That is less than ten miles from the town where I grew up

and where my mom and son still live! How horrible and how surreal. Nothing ever seems to happen in that (fairly rural) area and county. Of course, anything can happen anywhere. My mom is freaking out right now that it's so close.

[Auggie]

23. Same here!

Several years ago there was a mass murder in neighboring Kirtland, just next door to Chardon.

Are you from Geauga or Lake County?

[titaniumsalute]

27. I learned how to fly and got my pilot;s license

at the Geauga County ariport in Middlefield. We always used the Chardon VOR for our instrument training.

[liberalhistorian]

29. I'm from Lake County. I believe you

are referring to the Avery cult murders in Kirtland? I think that was back in 1989 or '90. Drove me crazy how people kept saying that they "didn't understand how it could happen here." Uh, no place is immune from these things. Whereever there are people, shit's gonna happen.

[Auggie]

33. That's the one

I'm from Kirtland. Moved away in '79 so I missed it.

[onehandle]

28. Collect the guns used, track them, name names, start arresting.

Last edited Mon Feb 27, 2012, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

An underage shooter doesn't obtain a gun without assistance or illegality.

If the NRA wants their penis extenders everywhere, there must be accountability.

[fascisthunter]

30. the NRA just wants to help sell more guns

to help loosen laws so that their market becomes larger. They don't want accountability... they don't care.

[mainstreetonce]

32. Accountability

Every person in anyway responsible for that gun and ammunition getting to that shooter's hands must be held accountable and prosecuted.

[AtheistCrusader]

34. That totally explains why the three primary influential gun control statutes on the books right now

were NRA sponsored.

You realize the NRA wrote the bill that established a registry for all automatic firearms, right?

I don't like the NRA for partisan political reasons, but as a firearms enthusiast, I do encourage accuracy.

[Hoyt]

44. Of course, there aren't many automatic firearms. It's the other 250 million that are a concern.

My money says someone's dad wasn't very careful with his guns. Time we start punishing folks like that and those that sell them privately without background checks. Background checks need to be beefed up as well.

Most importantly, folks -- including Democrats -- need to quit supporting gun proliferation and attempting to make them as common/acceptable as wristwatches.

[AtheistCrusader]

47. There aren't many, because an amendment to the NRA sponsored 1986 GCA closed the registry.

There are no more new automatic weapons for US Citizens. Only weapons registered and sold before 1986.

We do punish people for negligence, where applicable (I suspect you are correct about the source, or at least, it is a likely bit of speculation)

The rest of what you posted is a characterization that does not exist outside your head.

[Hoyt]

48. NRA acquiesced because there was no way to win right for any yahoo to carry an automatic weapon.

Besides, common semi-autos can kill and maim just about as many people in a few seconds.

I can assure you that the NRA is not doing anything for anyone other than right wingers and those who think every citizen should be armed.

And yes, there are plenty of people promoting more and more guns as an answer to something -- but not something that is good for society.

[krispos42]

39. Except for the penis comment (*yawn*) I agree n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

69. Agree with your entire post,

including the "penis extenders" part.

If there were a little more accountability, there would be a little less irresponsibility IMO.

[alp227]

35. Tragic all around. Off topic, but WHLO is one of FOUR Limbaugh stations in Cleveland

Both HLO Akron and WTAM Cleveland play Rush live. Why can't one of these stations at least broadcast Thom Hartmann (currently tape delayed on the new Talk 1460). There isa also WKBN from Youngstown. (At least KBN's morning host Mike Romigh is a liberal!) Oh yeah Cleveland can also hear Rush on Detroit's WJR "the HATE voice of the Great Lakes".

Geez that's what a deregulated radio marketplace without obligation of public interest does: monopolies that cause ubiquity of bloviators. In my area I can hear FOUR stations playing Lamebaugh live (one local, three out of area). Why does TAM get to call itself "Newsradio" when its schedule is mostly Republicon propaganda? How could a place that elected Dennis Kucinich have so many RW knuckleheads on radio?

And before the pro NRA trolls start calling on students and teachers to be armed: truth is, when a student starts gunning down a campus, if everyone else had a gun, there would be Wild West type chaos and even MORE harm to peoples' lives.

[titaniumsalute]

37. Yes it is

WHLO was a powerhouse rock station for years in the 1960s and 1970s. They had huge ratings. Then sometime in the 80's it went all religion. Clear Channel bought them and made it into an almost 24/7 conservative station. The morning News program is not right wing. I had actually seen the Facebook Breaking News report from WHLO and that's how I saw the original news of this shooting.

[PavePusher]

67. Off topic, much? n/t

[Bozita]

38. ABC News reporting one victim has died

Heard it on my local noon newscast.

[MarkCharles]

43. Suspect in Custody identified:

So, we have at least one witness naming TJ Lane as the shooter, but it is not yet confirmed that the photos below actually depict TJ Lane. Information shared via Twitter has the advantage of speed, but not always accuracy.

The resemblance between that photo and Thomas Lane's yearbook photo (linked above) are striking, however.



Continue reading at NowPublic.com: TJ Lane: Suspect in Chardon High School Shooting (Photos) | NowPublic News Coverage http://www.nowpublic.com/world/tj-lane-suspect-chardon-high-school-shooting-photos-2896019.html#ixzz1nbzI6nbK

Source:
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/tj-lane-suspect-chardon-high-school-shooting-photos-2896019.html

Supposed pictures of the suspect which he may have posted himself...here:

[ellisonz]

49. Once again showing...

...how shockingly easy it is for anyone in America to get a gun who wants one.

[xchrom]

52. the lack of facial expression is disturbing. the other thing is see is a 'slight' kid.

not very big.

and of course i have to wonder -- did his parents know about the weapons?

[csziggy]

57. The kid had some starnge interests

From another site:

The suspect's Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Tj-La...079941?sk=wall

Activities include "Wandering Aimlessly" and one of his interests is "American Psychological Association".
He also had David Icke as someone who inspires him. I think that is the big "Illuminati' guy that kids are into these days. Very weird stuff.

Kids are into the Illuminati these days?

[Posteritatis]

61. Kids - not being a monolith - are into many things. (nt)

[starroute]

63. There was also a possible David Icke link in the Gaby Giffords shooting

I've just checked a couple of DU threads about it, and apparently the basis was that a guy from the SPLC who was interviewed by Keith Olbermann said that Jared Loughner's obsession with "conscious dreaming" appears to come out of Icke's stuff.

I don't know if that was ever confirmed, but it would be interesting if there was an Icke connection to both of them.

I guess thinking many of the people around you are lizard-folk in disguise could make running amok with a gun seem like a plausible course of action.

[csziggy]

66. Labeling people as "other" reduces the moral reasons not to kill

If they are not "one of us" and aren't even human, the various societal prohibitions against murder and assassination are less likely to stop an unstable person.

I believe that is one reason there is such a move to define Obama as "other". Sure, the top GOP people doing this aren't really telling their followers that it is OK to go out and kill him, so if some person with serious problems decides to do it, they can deny any involvement.

Think about Jared Loughner - the reports have been that he was not really political and that the shooting was not politically motivated. I wonder how often the right wing talking heads in Arizona made claims about Rep. Giffords that framed her as "other" and so let Loughner get to the point that in his disturbed mind it was OK to shoot her.

[pipoman]

54. Any thought of what could have driven this kid to do this?

Could be bullying....he actually may have been the victim yesterday.

[Posteritatis]

62. The rampant-speculation cycle will probably tell us what to blame in a couple of days. (nt)

[onenote]

58. As is often the case, the information coming out may not be completely reliable at this point

I would suggest everyone take a deep breath and not to leap to any assumptions about anything. Case in point: its being reported that the student that died is named Daniel Parmenter. That may well be true, but I can't be the only to find it passing strange that the name of one of the victims in the shootings that occurred in February 2008 at Northern Illinois University also was Daniel Parmenter.

In addition, I have seen reports that the photos that are being posted of "TJ Lane" holding a couple of guns are not photos of the TJ Lane identified as the shooter. Maybe it will turn out that they are, maybe not. My point is that its unwise to accept without question all of the information being reported at this point.

[MarkCharles]

70. Second victim from the shooting spree died

Reported this morning, he died last night.

A second victim has died from wounds suffered in the school shooting in Chardon, Ohio, the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's office said Tuesday.
Russell King Jr. 17, was shot at Chardon High School on Monday, the agency said in a statement. Student Daniel Parmertor died on Monday. Three other students were wounded in the shooting.

Read more: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/30557325/detail.html#ixzz1ngE972Of

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/30557325/detail.html?treets=bos&tid=26511199501813&tml=bos_natlbreak&tmi=bos_natlbreak_1_06020102282012&ts=H

My heart goes out to all the residents of that town, particularly the families of those slain.

[Kolesar]

72. Third victim died Tuesday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101462488