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Indi Guy

(3,992 posts)
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:47 AM Nov 2013

CIA Made Doctors Torture Suspected Terrorists After 9/11, Taskforce Finds

Source: the guardian

Doctors and psychologists working for the US military violated the ethical codes of their profession under instruction from the defence department and the CIA to become involved in the torture and degrading treatment of suspected terrorists, an investigation has concluded.

The report of the Taskforce on Preserving Medical Professionalism in National Security Detention Centres concludes that after 9/11, health professionals working with the military and intelligence services "designed and participated in cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment and torture of detainees". Medical professionals were in effect told that their ethical mantra "first do no harm" did not apply, because they were not treating people who were ill.

The report lays blame primarily on the defence department (DoD) and the CIA, which required their healthcare staff to put aside any scruples in the interests of intelligence gathering and security practices that caused severe harm to detainees, from waterboarding to sleep deprivation and force-feeding.

The two-year review by the 19-member taskforce, Ethics Abandoned: Medical Professionalism and Detainee Abuse in the War on Terror, supported by the Institute on Medicine as a Profession (IMAP) and the Open Society Foundations, says that the DoD termed those involved in interrogation "safety officers" rather than doctors. Doctors and nurses were required to participate in the force-feeding of prisoners on hunger strike, against the rules of the World Medical Association and the American Medical Association. Doctors and psychologists working for the DoD were required to breach patient confidentiality and share what they knew of the prisoner's physical and psychological condition with interrogators and were used as interrogators themselves. They also failed to comply with recommendations from the army surgeon general on reporting abuse of detainees...





An al-Qaida detainee at Guantanamo Bay in 2002: the DoD has taken steps to address concerns over practices at the prison in recent years

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/04/cia-doctors-torture-suspected-terrorists-9-11

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CIA Made Doctors Torture Suspected Terrorists After 9/11, Taskforce Finds (Original Post) Indi Guy Nov 2013 OP
Unless their own lives were threatened, they weren't "made" to torture anyone. Live and Learn Nov 2013 #1
Yeah but... Indi Guy Nov 2013 #7
An unlawful order is an unlawful order Kelvin Mace Nov 2013 #15
+1 Blue_Tires Nov 2013 #19
I have no argument with that whatsoever. Indi Guy Nov 2013 #26
No argument Kelvin Mace Nov 2013 #27
Perhaps you're right; and I'd like to think that you are. Indi Guy Nov 2013 #29
I totally agree. The only problem is that, this avebury Nov 2013 #30
First things first. The Stranger Nov 2013 #22
It falls on some of the very same people that are leading those agencies today. Bandit Nov 2013 #23
I agree newfie11 Nov 2013 #11
Thank you. onyourleft Nov 2013 #14
K&R DeSwiss Nov 2013 #2
How were they "made" to do so? Were they "just following orders," by chance? xocet Nov 2013 #3
So, in other words, under the direction of Rumsfeld and Cheney. n/t woodsprite Nov 2013 #4
I thought the excuse SheilaT Nov 2013 #5
+INFINITY!!!! Nt newfie11 Nov 2013 #12
"Not complying with authority is now, in many cases, labeled a disease." Trillo Nov 2013 #13
It's not a viable defense for Germans. In the USA today it seems any excuse will do. nt Ace Acme Nov 2013 #18
Except when the person or persons giving the orders avebury Nov 2013 #31
Just a reminder to "Doctors" Mengele v2.0: "I was following my orders" is not a valid defense idwiyo Nov 2013 #6
Ironically... Blue_Tires Nov 2013 #20
You left me speechless. idwiyo Nov 2013 #21
...sickening. SoapBox Nov 2013 #8
We're all stained for life, and we'll never live it down. nt dougolat Nov 2013 #9
Stamping their foot... ReRe Nov 2013 #10
SO, NOW MD. IN THE MILITARY IS TRANSLATED TO "MEAN DOCTOR"? I FEEL A LITTLE BAD FOR drynberg Nov 2013 #16
If you think this crap has stopped, I got news. Titonwan Nov 2013 #17
Not to mention the 1000s of doctors who are whores for insurance corporations Corruption Inc Nov 2013 #24
The stink of corruption permeates everything in our lives. DeSwiss Nov 2013 #32
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #25
that's a real shocker... stillcool Nov 2013 #28

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
1. Unless their own lives were threatened, they weren't "made" to torture anyone.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:00 AM
Nov 2013

They could have said no. It would have been the ethical thing to do.

Indi Guy

(3,992 posts)
7. Yeah but...
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:15 AM
Nov 2013

...following the chain of command, wherein does the ultimate culpability lie?

I'm not excusing the medical folks here; I'm only making sure that the perpetrators do not escape the scrutiny they are due. Who deserves the lion's share of culpability -- the givers or the followers of illegal orders?

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
15. An unlawful order is an unlawful order
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:59 AM
Nov 2013

Last edited Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)

We established that at Nuremberg.

These people get no slack from me and should be prosecuted along with their superiors for war crimes.

Indi Guy

(3,992 posts)
26. I have no argument with that whatsoever.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:35 PM
Nov 2013

Oftentimes it's forgotten that those who issue such orders are at the top of the food chain; and regardless of whether or not their first string players follow their dictates, they will always find the people necessary to do their dirty work.

A mere low level worker with two kids in college and an inflated mortgage is (at least to me) slightly less culpable than the bosses. So if all were convicted of war crimes, I'd expect the bosses to serve somewhat harsher sentences.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
27. No argument
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:02 PM
Nov 2013

If these doctors had REFUSED from the outset and declared the order illegal, they probably would have been court martialed which would have brought this out in the open WAY sooner and stopped it. Imagine what would have happened if the doctors had refused en masse to participate and declared the order illegal. Perhaps the torture would not have happened once they raised the spectre of war crimes.

Indi Guy

(3,992 posts)
29. Perhaps you're right; and I'd like to think that you are.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:25 PM
Nov 2013

It seems more likely to me however that, given the corrupted nature of the MSM, no one would have found out if the doctors had resigned in solidarity against their orders. And if their actions did come to light -- the facts of the situation would distorted to conform with the Cheney/Bush agenda, and the doctors would have been vilified as traitors.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
30. I totally agree. The only problem is that, this
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 06:06 PM
Nov 2013

country, blame never rolls up to the highest level involved in an incident. Instead it remains with the lowest level perpetrators. Things might be a whole lot different in the US if all people were actually held accountable for their actions and/or decisions.

The Stranger

(11,297 posts)
22. First things first.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:16 PM
Nov 2013

If they violated professional codes, yank every fucking one of their licenses and ban them from ever practicing again. Ever.

Do this all up and down the chain of command.

Then, look to see what laws have been violated, in addition to violating professional codes.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
23. It falls on some of the very same people that are leading those agencies today.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:19 PM
Nov 2013

Not only have we not pursued justice for war crimes committed, but we have enabled those very same criminals by advancing their careers.

xocet

(3,871 posts)
3. How were they "made" to do so? Were they "just following orders," by chance?
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:14 AM
Nov 2013
Medical, Military, and Ethics Experts Say Health Professionals Designed and Participated in Cruel, Inhumane, and Degrading Treatment and Torture of Detainees; Seek Policies To Assure Conformance With Ethical Principles

New York, NY — An independent panel of military, ethics, medical, public health, and legal experts today charged that U.S. military and intelligence agencies directed doctors and psychologists working in U.S. military detention centers to violate standard ethical principles and medical standards to avoid infliction of harm. The Task Force on Preserving Medical Professionalism in National Security Detention Centers (see attached) concludes that since September 11, 2001, the Department of Defense (DoD) and CIA improperly demanded that U.S. military and intelligence agency health professionals collaborate in intelligence gathering and security practices in a way that inflicted severe harm on detainees in U.S. custody.

These practices included “designing, participating in, and enabling torture and cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment” of detainees, according to the report. Although the DoD has taken steps to address some of these practices in recent years, including instituting a committee to review medical ethics concerns at Guantanamo Bay Prison, the Task Force says the changed roles for health professionals and anemic ethical standards adopted within the military remain in place.

“The American public has a right to know that the covenant with its physicians to follow professional ethical expectations is firm regardless of where they serve,” said Task Force member Dr. Gerald Thomson, Professor of Medicine Emeritus at Columbia University. “It’s clear that in the name of national security the military trumped that covenant, and physicians were transformed into agents of the military and performed acts that were contrary to medical ethics and practice. We have a responsibility to make sure this never happens again.”

The Task Force report, supported by the Institute on Medicine as a Profession and the Open Society Foundations, calls on the DoD and CIA to follow medical professional standards of conduct to enable doctors and psychologists to adhere to their ethical principles so that in the future they be used to heal, not injure, detainees they encounter. The Task Force also urges professional medical associations and the American Psychological Association to strengthen ethical standards related to interrogation and detention of detainees.

...

http://www.imapny.org/medicine_as_a_profession/interrogationtorture-and-dual-loyalty


The report is here: http://www.imapny.org/File%20Library/Documents/IMAP-EthicsTextFinal2.pdf

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
5. I thought the excuse
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:50 AM
Nov 2013

"I was only following orders" was declared not a viable one with the Nuremberg trials.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
13. "Not complying with authority is now, in many cases, labeled a disease."
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:05 AM
Nov 2013
Acceptance into medical school and graduate school and achieving a Ph.D. or M.D. means jumping through many meaningless hoops, all of which require much behavioral, attentional and emotional compliance to authorities

http://www.alternet.org/story/75081/how_teenage_rebellion_has_become_a_mental_illness

avebury

(10,952 posts)
31. Except when the person or persons giving the orders
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 06:08 PM
Nov 2013

residen within the higher levels of the US Government, then of course they are not held culpable for their actions.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
20. Ironically...
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 12:51 PM
Nov 2013

The early OSS/CIA supposedly adopted wholesale the "guidebook" on interrogation techniques from research left behind by the defeated Nazi Germany...They were meticulous record-keepers...

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
10. Stamping their foot...
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:44 AM
Nov 2013

... "we demand an investigation!" What the hay did the "Task Force" just say they are accusing physicians/psychiatrists of? Like teats on a boar hog, the Task Force is useless. Hell's bells, tell us something we DON'T know! If we're so corrupt we can't hold anyone who's perpetrating high crimes and misdemeanors accountable in this "government", can the medical authorities at least hold the doctors accountable for their breach of the Hippocratic Oath? Where does it say that they are permitted to disregard the oath if participating in torturing POWs during a war? Strip their right to practice medicine in the USA! Abolish their private practices and throw throw their asses in jail so they can't practice as mercenaries! Task forces, hundreds of thousands of protesters in the streets of America and millions abroad... well Hell, the whole damn electorate, have been and continue to be disregarded as "focus groups."
This isn't a "New World Order." It's an "Old World of total DysOrder!

drynberg

(1,648 posts)
16. SO, NOW MD. IN THE MILITARY IS TRANSLATED TO "MEAN DOCTOR"? I FEEL A LITTLE BAD FOR
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 10:32 AM
Nov 2013

Those Dr.s without principal enough to refuse, but a whole lot worse for their victims. Shame on their green asses. This is so sad, but I'm glad the truth is rising to the surface.

Titonwan

(785 posts)
17. If you think this crap has stopped, I got news.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 11:25 AM
Nov 2013

It hasn't. B. Obama has no more power over the intel community than Clinton or Carter. Yes Martha, the political elite have never had a job with the government- other than rotating straight back out into the defense industry (or big pharma, insurance, banking, Wall St. etc).
Hopefully Mr. Snowden will reveal such corruption and illegality.

 

Corruption Inc

(1,568 posts)
24. Not to mention the 1000s of doctors who are whores for insurance corporations
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:19 PM
Nov 2013

Torturers and whores who commit perjury for a living, what a wonderful model for a professional org like the AMA.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
32. The stink of corruption permeates everything in our lives.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 06:25 PM
Nov 2013

That's why this shit can't be fixed with one more law, one more committee. One more election. One more judicial appointment. Because after you've done all that, the stink is still inside of it all waiting to corrupt anew.

If we are to be free of it, it must be abandoned and left to shrivel and die.

- Without us and our blood, it doesn't exist.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
28. that's a real shocker...
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:12 PM
Nov 2013

I bet those bombed out Iraqui's that made it through are a little disgruntled as well.

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