Brazil Admits It Spied On U.S. Diplomats

[Tx4obama]

Source: TPM

The Brazilian government admitted Monday that its top intelligence agency spied on diplomatic targets from several countries including the United States, the New York Times reported.

The admission came in response to a report published Monday in Folha de Sao Paulo. The Brazilian newspaper revealed that the Brazilian Intelligence Agency, also known as Abin, followed the movements of Russian and Iranian diplomats and monitored a property leased by the U.S. embassy in the country's capital, according to the Times.


Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/brazil-admits-it-spied-on-u-s-diplomats

---

Report: Brazil spied on embassy personnel

RIO DE JANEIRO (AP) -- The Brazilian government confirmed Monday that its intelligence service targeted U.S., Russian, Iranian and Iraqi diplomats and property during spy activities carried out about a decade ago in the capital Brasilia.

The relatively low-key surveillance was reported by the Folha de S. Paulo newspaper, based on Brazilian intelligence service documents it obtained from an undisclosed source.

It describes surveillance that pales in comparison to the massive spy programs carried out by the U.S. National Security Agency, efforts detailed in thousands of documents leaked by Edward Snowden.

But the revelation forced the Brazilian government to defend its espionage while remaining the loudest critic of the NSA programs that have aggressively targeted communications in Brazil, including the personal phone and email of President Dilma Rousseff, who cancelled a state visit to Washington in response.

-snip-

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_BRAZIL_SPYING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[jberryhill]

1. How shocking

And we were probably watching the guys who were spying on the diplomats.

Is anyone really upset about this?

[iandhr]

4. I think the point is that....

.... everyone spies on everyone.

[dbackjon]

13. Yes - I bet Germans spy on the US.

A lot of FAUX outrage around the world from governments.

It's the citizens that should be outraged.

[George II]

23. They've already admitted that they do, Merkel's crocodile tears notwithstanding

[LanternWaste]

39. I think the point people intentionally avoid is that the U.S. government should not spy on its domes

I think the point people intentionally avoid is that the U.S. government should not spy on its domestic citizens with just cause. Period.

And as far as I'm concerned and in regards to this discussion, that's the only point that holds any water. The rest is simply window dressing to allow people to better rationalize the "they do so we can do it too" crap.

[iandhr]

59. Though I agree with this statement

"I think the point people intentionally avoid is that the U.S. government should not spy on its domestic citizens with just cause. Period."

The point here is that Brazil is hypocritical to set their hair on fire about our spying when they are doing the same to us. A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Laelth]

2. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. They all do it! That's what has been lost in the feeding frenzy. nt

[iandhr]

6. +1

[SoapBox]

9. + 1 also.

[brisas2k]

10. Everyone does it, therefore it is ok to do it to everyone. I get it

The constitutional rights to privacy are just a stupid, drity piece of paper.

I get it.

[dbackjon]

14. No one is saying that

But if a government is getting outraged over a country spying on them, they need to be clean.

[Tarheel_Dem]

18. Aww, Go tell it to Rand Paul! This story isn't about you personally. It's about diplomatic....

spying between nation states, and your "constitutional rights" don't enter into that debate. Get over yourself, and save your righteous indignation for something the whole world didn't already know.

[freshwest]

43. Ah, but you see, spying never happened before in history. It did thousands of years ago, but, but...

ROHN PAWL!!!

I don't know if that's where all of this is coming from, but it's strange...

No, disgusting, that Rand wants to end civil rights for women with his always inserted personhood laws. If it's Sunday or any other day of the week, it's the top of the bills he submits.

Not to mention his assault on the right to assemble to form a union with his national Right-to-Work for nothing bills.

Oh, and he does like his Pappa, support the Right to FOAD for those who can't pay for insurance or car out of their pockets.

No fourth amendment for these women, nosiree!

When Rand yells about the crimes against women by his theological bent, I'll give a shit. That's half of the population right there.

The Constitution does not apply to them, huh, no more than blacks, et al.

That's just my humble opinion, Tarheel Dem and I'm hoping you agree with me.

[jberryhill]

25. Yes, it is actually a good idea for governments to keep an eye on each other

[ronnie624]

45. It's a particularly good Idea

to keep an eye on a government with a sordid history of covert wars and military aggression in your neck of the woods.

[Thinkingabout]

5. A case of clean your windows before you speak badly about your neighbors dirty laundry.

We have the governments spying each other and those who spy on the government. It continues everyday, nothing new, better methods but same intent.

[DontTreadOnMe]

7. Snowden is going to Rio?

Espionage-by-the-beach!

[SoapBox]

8. ROFLMAO

Oh how hilarious but known to people with common sense.

The common sense that Comrade Eddie the Rusky and Brazillian Greenwald forgot with all their breathless yap flapping.

[msanthrope]

11. I wonder when it becomes apparent that the World Cup 2014 and Olympics 2016 host is doing a shitload

of spying?

I mean, Dilma's false protestations aside--is there a single poster on this board gullible enough to believe that Brazil isn't spying? And isn't making deals with every single international spy agency for help?

Would any poster here WANT to go to the World Cup or the Olympics without Brazil spying?

[okaawhatever]

12. I suspect we will be hearing more of this sort of thing. nt

[gcomeau]

15. I for one find it shocking... SHOCKING...

...that any nation actually uses it's intelligence agencies for collecting intelligence rather than having them around purely for decorative purposes.

Snowden! Greenwald! Quick, fly to Rio and save us from this outrage!


(What's that... Greenwald lives there? Well that's convenient then!)

[cosmicone]

16. It is not about whether everyone does it or not

It is the sheer massive volume, extent and reach of the NSA that is scary and should be stopped.

[dipsydoodle]

17. and

[Cali_Democrat]

19. LOL

[dipsydoodle]

22. Well it is a matter of degree.

Article refers to within Brazil only. Hardly the same scale as the NSA worldwide.

[Cali_Democrat]

27. LMAO

This is just too rich. I wonder what Greenwald has to say about this. He lives in Brazil, right? Surely he will condemn the Brazilian government for this flagrant espionage against diplomats.



Here's what gonna happen. The US is gonna release information about foreign espionage against US interests and those governments are gonna look like the biggest hypocrites. The German government is already red-faced after it was revealed their spy agencies were complicit.

Pass the popcorn!

[George II]

32. Cali, I think Greenwald headed straight to the Equadorian Embassy to seek asylum!

[Judi Lynn]

29. There's hardly enough room to contain the difference between the two! n/t

[ronnie624]

46. Also

Brazil does not have a history of trying to control everything in the Western hemisphere by force.

[joshcryer]

54. It's a matter of ability.

Brazil's security intelligence culture doesn't "benefit" from massive, $250 per man, woman, and child, to defense.

If they had that kind of spending, I'm sure they would never ever not in a million years use it.

[joshcryer]

53. And, indeed.

Glad I don't recall you complaining about US spying in the past.

[George II]

20. I would venture to guess that EVERY country spies on EVERY other country....

....and anyone who thinks it's confined to the NSA or the US spying on others is grossly naive.

[jberryhill]

26. Not every country can spy on every country

But of course the US is on anyone's short list.

[George II]

31. Even our closest ally, Israel, convinced Jonathan Pollard to spy on the US!

[iandhr]

34. I guarantee you we spy on Israel.

Pollard just got caught

[ronnie624]

48. A ridiculous claim.

And I can't recall anyone ever saying that only the NSA 'spies'. As a poster up-thread noted, a lot of the issue pertains to a matter of degree. The US is clearly in a league of its own, when it comes to covert activities. There is also the issue of how a country's clandestine services are used, and what they accomplish in the world. Surely every regular reader and poster on this board is familiar with the nasty history of the CIA. If you aren't, I suggest you start searching for information about it and learn something about your country's history. It does not reflect well on the US foreign policy establishment, so beware.

[sendero]

21. False equivalency alert.

.... as the article linked clearly states "It describes surveillance that pales in comparison to the massive spy programs carried out by the U.S. National Security Agency".

In other words is it nothing like nor remotely equivalent to the mass electronic wiretapping of official and personal communications the NSA is engaged in.

This sort of nonsense "they all do it" claim might fool an idiot but not anyone else.

[Judi Lynn]

28. We only have to remember what history has already been established.

Of course the idiots have never bothered to look into it, so the truth will always fall on deaf ears as long as idiots remain who personally support an aggressive posture and ongoing threat maintained against the world, against every government which doesn't bow to U.S. interests above the interests of its own people.

[Octafish]

35. Like the time in 1964 when Goulart said 'No' to the CIA.

BRAZIL MARKS 40th ANNIVERSARY OF MILITARY COUP

DECLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS SHED LIGHT ON U.S. ROLE

[font color="red"]Audio tape: President Johnson urged taking "every step that we can" to support overthrow of Joao Goulart[/font color]

U.S. Ambassador Requested Pre-positioned Armaments to aid Golpistas; Acknowledged covert operations backing street demonstrations, civic forces and resistance groups

Edited by Peter Kornbluh

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB118/

[Judi Lynn]

40. When you post evidence right in front of their eyes, they STILL don't make the effort

to open their minds to it! It would be interesting learning how many people who see your post will even focus upon what it says!

[font size=4] U.S. Ambassador . . . . Acknowledged covert operations backing street demonstrations, civic forces and resistance groups [/font]

In Brazil.

So long ago, too, when so many U.S. Americans probably wouldn't be able to find it on a map.

It would benefit anyone with the time to become conscious of what has been happening. Why prolong the ignorance?

Thanks for posting this REAL, historical information.

[Rebellious Republican]

30. Imagine a poor third world country like Brazil trying to compete with the likes of

Rupert Murdoch.... Just saying

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal

[U4ikLefty]

64. THANK YOU!!!

Yes, I meant to use all caps.

[frazzled]

24. Yeah: Pot, meet Kettle

We already knew this was the case. They all do it. That's what spies and spy agencies are for. It keeps a certain element employed.

Birds do it, bees do it
Even educated fleas do it

[ronnie624]

49. How many democracies has Brazil thwarted in favor of despotism?

How many countries has Brazil invaded or bombed to oblivion?

Brazil's spy agency is not the same as the NSA, by any stretch of the imagination, nor does Brazil use its clandestine services for aggression and dominance in the world like the USA does.

[jberryhill]

58. Brazil, for one

Are you at all familiar with their still-recent history, and the protest movement there?

[ronnie624]

60. *

[jberryhill]

61. I suppose your answer to my question is "no", then.

[MyNameGoesHere]

33. Yeah so they shadow the spies we send to their country

Another article that uses a deranged headline to make it look like everyone is doing it. Then in the article says the spying Brazil did was quaint. For ffffff sake.

[matt819]

36. Oh, FFS

This is not news. Man bites dog is news. Dog bites man is not. Countries spy on other countries. Countries develop counterintelligence programs to minimize the damage. Again, not news. Not important.

[PSPS]

37. Good old #14

I guess since countries spy on each others diplomats, it must then follow that it's OK for the NSA to monitor and store for future use all of my phone calls and email.


Worshiper/Apologist Hit Parade:

1. This is nothing new
2. I have nothing to hide
3. What are you, a freeper?
4. But Obama is better than Christie/Romney/Bush/Hitler
5. Greenwald/Flaherty/Gillum/Apuzzo/Braun is a hack
6. We have red light cameras, so this is no big deal
7. Corporations have my data anyway
8. At least Obama is trying
9. This is just the media trying to take Obama down
10. It's a misunderstanding/you are confused
11. You're a racist
12. Nobody cares about this anyway / "unfounded fears"
13. I don't like Snowden, therefore we must disregard all of this
14. Other countries do it

[struggle4progress]

38. well ... um ... duh!

[Ash_F]

41. Apples to oranges. Read the whole article before you start drooling.

First of all it was counter-espionage. They rightfully suspected that the office was holding spy equipment. It sounds like they merely accessed it, rather than bugged it. They never tapped into any phones, nor accessed any emails.

This isn't even remotely close to what the NSA and CIA have been doing.

[iamthebandfanman]

42. WHAT?!?! BUT.. BUT...

Everyone knows nobody else would dare spy on other nations!!

gosh!!

we live in a world where everyone respects everyone elses boundaries.. didn't you hear?
that's why snowden is a hero for releasing information on our international spying! duh!

(btw, to some of you, stop trying to make excuses .. there are other articles that have come out about other nations spying on us.. this isn't the only incident in the last month.)

[TroglodyteScholar]

44. Hardly the expression of outrage from Rousseff that I expected...

The Brazilian government's Office of Institutional Security, which oversees the intelligence agency for Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff, acknowledged the report's main points. "The operations involved counterintelligence efforts by the intelligence agency in 2003 and 2004," the statement said. "The operations were undertaken in strict accordance with Brazilian legislation and in strict defense of national interests," it said.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304391204579178040803286708

[gopiscrap]

47. "What's good for the goose....."

[last1standing]

50. The responses in this thread prove that repubs aren't the only ones who can't grasp complexities.

As so many have written in other threads, there was never any doubt that other countries spy and that they spy on the US. But that doesn't stop those unable to grasp something so complicated as levels of degree from screeching that this proves "they all do it!"

The problem with posting "they all do it" repeatedly, besides making the writer of such comments appear intellectually challenged, is that as the original article states (and TPM conveniently omits) Brazil's spying was standard, run of the mill, procedure.

As one of the targets of Brazil's operation stated:

“It’s kind of basic stuff when you think about it,” said Fernando Sampaio, 70, Russia’s honorary consul in the southern city of Porto Alegre and one of the targets of Brazil’s spying program, according to the newspaper report, which was based on an Abin document.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/world/americas/brazil-acknowledges-spying-on-diplomats-from-us.html?smid=tw-share

On the other hand, even John Kerry (some here might recognize the name as belonging to the US Secretary of State) has gone on record as saying the NSA has gone too far in its operations. When the SoS says the country's spying has gotten out of hand, it's probably a safe bet to believe that it's gotten out of hand. A person able to think in terms of complex meanings might even make the connection that President Obama wouldn't have let his SoS make such a statement if he didn't agree with it. Obama may have come to this conclusion when he found out that the NSA was tapping the cell phone of Germany's Chancellor - one of our staunchest allies.

I know this post is a bit difficult for those who can only think in terms of "my side good, his side bad" but reality is a bit more nuanced than just saying "they all do it" then posting a ROFL smilie. However, in one more vain attempt at explaining the situation:

Yes, all countries spy and the US should be one of them. But the US should not allow its spy agencies to make it's own rules. It should not allow its spy agencies to lie to their overseers. They should not allow its spy agencies to collect information on its own citizens without a proper, individualized warrant. And they should not allow it to perform critical, high level operations such at tapping the head of state for another nation without first getting approval from the president or his appointed designee. And to be clear, it doesn't matter if you think other countries run that way. Ours shouldn't. We have a Constitution that forbids it and customs that make it anathema to our culture.

Lastly, this isn't a personal attack on Obama. It appears that he's found himself burned by an out of control NSA just as badly as the rest of us.

[Zeke L Brimstone]

51. Everbody really does do it

That's why I've a hard time getting my knickers in a knot over the NSA issue.

[joshcryer]

52. BUT ONLY THE US SPIES! OMG!! HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!

[BenzoDia]

55. This is probably Obama's fault.

[The Straight Story]

57. And nothing will be done about it. If I spy on the US,

well...I am guessing then something will be done about it.

Want to be above the law? Be a corporation or a government.

[calguy]

62. Thanks to Ed Snowden...

The rest of the world is free to spy on us, but it's now somehow wrong for us to spy on them.

[baldguy]

63. This is what Geenwald & Snowden don't want you to know.

And the fact that countries have intelligence services for one reason - to spy on other countries. Obama's America isn't uniquely evil, in spite of false ideas the Obama haters on DU are pushing.