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OneCrazyDiamond

(2,031 posts)
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:19 AM Nov 2013

Special Report: The Pentagon's doctored ledgers conceal epic waste

Source: Reuters

...
Every month until she retired in 2011, she says, the day came when the Navy would start dumping numbers on the Cleveland, Ohio, office of the Defense Finance and Accounting Service, the Pentagon's main accounting agency. Using the data they received, Woodford and her fellow DFAS accountants there set about preparing monthly reports to square the Navy's books with the U.S. Treasury's - a balancing-the-checkbook maneuver required of all the military services and other Pentagon agencies.

And every month, they encountered the same problem. Numbers were missing. Numbers were clearly wrong. Numbers came with no explanation of how the money had been spent or which congressional appropriation it came from. "A lot of times there were issues of numbers being inaccurate," Woodford says. "We didn't have the detail … for a lot of it."
...




Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/special-report-pentagons-doctored-ledgers-conceal-epic-waste-144950858--business.html

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Special Report: The Pentagon's doctored ledgers conceal epic waste (Original Post) OneCrazyDiamond Nov 2013 OP
The Principle of Waste bemildred Nov 2013 #1
thanks for that - I just ordered Karps' book - nt Locrian Nov 2013 #10
You won't regret it. bemildred Nov 2013 #11
I love that stuff... Locrian Nov 2013 #16
Me too. DU should get an affiliate kickback...nt Jesus Malverde Nov 2013 #37
Highly recommended pscot Nov 2013 #2
A lot of Red States would have zip if it weren't for "defense" contracts.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #6
If you work in the defense industry Plucketeer Nov 2013 #17
Classic "go over budget to justify an increase" tactics.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #22
I worked at Lockheed-Georgia when they were building the C5-A Plucketeer Nov 2013 #33
I knew someone who worked at Northrop who took a huge truckload into the hills every weekend.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #34
Reminds me of my Navy days under Reagan... adirondacker Nov 2013 #44
LMAO!!! Plucketeer Nov 2013 #46
The sad part was, we weren't allowed to take any of it home. adirondacker Nov 2013 #47
Aint that the truth! Plucketeer Nov 2013 #48
I'm sure they'll deal with this... raindaddy Nov 2013 #3
They're working on it - IDemo Nov 2013 #32
Adjusting military pay and benefits isn't even scratching the surface of our obscene military budget raindaddy Nov 2013 #35
That "waste" is also a method for covertly siphoning off cash starroute Nov 2013 #4
Some of it is going into the pockets of certain politicians... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Nov 2013 #5
Compare the systems efforts described here seabeckind Nov 2013 #7
how accurate is Yahoo? LittleGirl Nov 2013 #9
my guess is that Yahoo is as about as accurate as the rest gejohnston Nov 2013 #14
It is really Reuters. OneCrazyDiamond Nov 2013 #15
it seems that they are more comfortable with gejohnston Nov 2013 #12
But look over there - somebody using FOOD STAMPS to buy CANDY!!!! ehrnst Nov 2013 #13
of course congress won't come close to pretending Blue_Tires Nov 2013 #18
The Military Polices Itself DallasNE Nov 2013 #19
There was a whistleblower law but Obama greatly expanded it in 2009 and again in 2011. They have okaawhatever Nov 2013 #45
Holy crap! They use at least 2200 DIFFERENT accounting systems! Xithras Nov 2013 #20
Any time you encounter "chaos" or "complexity" JackRiddler Nov 2013 #24
+1 a whole bunch.......nt Enthusiast Nov 2013 #39
Just finished reading article packman Nov 2013 #21
that was when I couldn't control my silence LittleGirl Nov 2013 #27
$68,000 per AGM-114 Hellfire Missile, OneCrazyDiamond Nov 2013 #31
K&R ReRe Nov 2013 #23
Hm, last time the plunder machine JackRiddler Nov 2013 #25
Sounds a lot like Medicare fraud problem ErikJ Nov 2013 #26
A culture of corruption. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #40
The largest portion of each budget, resorts to falsification of records,,, benld74 Nov 2013 #28
So the people supposedly protecting the USA are also harming it... Blue Owl Nov 2013 #29
Not to mention the largest The Wizard Nov 2013 #30
It's "just money." They can steal it out of our Social Security, to make up for the "shortfall." blkmusclmachine Nov 2013 #36
Or they can just open a bank...... DeSwiss Nov 2013 #38
Kicked and recommended. Enthusiast Nov 2013 #41
+ underpants Nov 2013 #42
About 25 years ago Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #43
Defund the Pentagon Ash_F Nov 2013 #49
Perhaps we should rethink what we spend our money on. unhappycamper Nov 2013 #50

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
1. The Principle of Waste
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:28 AM
Nov 2013

---

The most obvious consequence of the Cold War is America's present-day military establishment with its three million fighting men, its more than one million civilian employees, its twenty-two thousand prime arms contractors and its more than two million dependent defense workers. If the oligarchs' determination to prosecute an aggressive foreign policy predates by half a century America's contemporary military machine, the political advantages of the military machine have greatly strengthened their determination. It has enabled the party oligarchs to solve what for them is a grave political problem-how to waste scores of billions of dollars a year.

The problem arises from a fundamental condition created by monopoly capitalism. That system, as Baran and Sweezy and others have demonstrated, cannot generate demand for its products and outlets for investment large enough to absorb the surplus wealth it generates. Since surplus wealth which can be neither invested nor consumed will not be produced, "the normal state of the monopoly capitalist economy is stagnation." Without the government's help, "monopoly capitalism," according to Baran and Sweezy, "would sink deeper and deeper into a bog of chronic depression." If the country is to avoid a depression and another collapse of the monopoly system, the government must stimulate demand by means of enormous annual public expenditures.

That the government must pour billions of dollars into the economy each year does not, to conventional political understanding, seem like much of a problem. It would seem to be an unparalleled opportunity for improving the general lot of the citizenry. Virtually every city, town and hamlet in America is in dire need of public revenues. 'What could be more immediately beneficial to all Americans than the allocation of a much-needed $30 billion a year out of Federal revenues to restore, improve and revive local communities? Almost everybody suffers to some degree from polluted air, polluted waterways and a despoiled and deteriorating environment. To accomplish real and sweeping environmental improvement (not just keeping things from getting worse) would cost scores of billions of dollars. What could be simpler than spending every cent required, since the money must be spent anyway? Poverty in America could be virtually eradicated with the stroke of a legislative pen and would, in addition, open vast new markets for the merchandise of the monopoly industries. Again, since the money must be spent, what could be more reasonable than eliminating poverty once and for all?


Yet the oligarchs' efforts in these and other areas have been notoriously grudging. Only the most intense public pressure gets anything done at all.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Walter_Karp/State_Of_War_IE.html

Without lots of government waste, there are no exorbitant profits to be made.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
16. I love that stuff...
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 12:56 PM
Nov 2013

The 'behind the scenes' explanation. Reading Oliver Stones "Untold history of the United States". Jives perfectly on how in the first 1893 depression the decision was made to start 'expansion' (ie taking over the islands, etc) to get the economy moving.


This will be interesting too.

Thanks

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
6. A lot of Red States would have zip if it weren't for "defense" contracts....
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:56 AM
Nov 2013

Same goes for Red Districts in Blue States like California.

It is a jobs program. I'm picturing if we actually DID cut back on the defense budget. We could end up with a bunch of guys looking like Michael Douglas in "Falling Down". We need a transfer from weapons to transportation systems. The people designing the power grid on battleships should be designing them for downtown.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
17. If you work in the defense industry
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 01:22 PM
Nov 2013

which I did for many years - none of this would surprise you. I actually blew the whistle on WANTON waste several times. The response I got was "Shut UP!"

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
22. Classic "go over budget to justify an increase" tactics....
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 01:38 PM
Nov 2013

Often done on programs that shouldn't even exist.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
33. I worked at Lockheed-Georgia when they were building the C5-A
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 06:07 PM
Nov 2013

At the end of each shift, we'd break out brooms and sweep up all the little hardware that inevitably made it's way to the floor every day. The C5 used very special bolts that held the wings to the center sections. Each bolt was different with respect to where it was to be installed. They were like a grand apiece - or more. If they fell to the floor from 30 feet up (where they were being installed) they had to go into the scrap metal bins. Never mind that there wasn't so much as a scratch on them. Doncha know the folks makin' those bolts fostered THAT policy!
What was really amazing was that I used to go to the county dump every Thursday. That was the day the trash trucks from Lockheed came and dumped stuff. What was intriguing was that there wasn't any "trash" like you'd think of. There was oodles of chunks of aluminum, magnesium, brass, copper and other such. My 3/4 ton pickup was sagging on it's springs every time I left. Made damned good money sorting and scrapping there!

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
34. I knew someone who worked at Northrop who took a huge truckload into the hills every weekend....
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 07:14 PM
Nov 2013

One day they threw away a bunch of little employee transports. Kinda like a golf cart with a truck bed and a two cylinder engine that burns propane. We never got one to go over 35 MPH because of the gearing.

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
44. Reminds me of my Navy days under Reagan...
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:37 PM
Nov 2013

The whole "waste, fraud and abuse" was in full swing after the $800.00 toilet seats and $300.00 hammers. We were told that there was to be no spare parts in the shop and all spares would have to be categorically returned to supply. Instead of filling out all of the paperwork required to return the parts, they were boxed up and thrown in the dumpster with no record. This was multi millions of dollars of electronics parts, all milspec in just one shop.

I also heard stories of returning ships that would empty out offices by throwing desks, chairs, and equipment overboard to eliminate having to move inventory back to supply.

I'm sure not much has changed.

What is pathetic is that non defense agencies, that tend to be the more efficient from my experience, are severely lacking funds and equipment to perform routine analysis.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
46. LMAO!!!
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 05:22 PM
Nov 2013

I was involved in the SAME SORT of disposal "clean-ups"! I worked for a defense contractor and whenever they were scheduled to have an inspection by the Air Force or Navy, we'd "clean up" by throwing brand new - never used - equipment in the dumpsters! I remember throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars in brand new equipment in the trash. But we can't afford food stamps!

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
47. The sad part was, we weren't allowed to take any of it home.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 05:28 PM
Nov 2013

I could have been set for life selling bumble bee resistors, Mullard tubes, and gold contact circuit boards on ebay.


 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
48. Aint that the truth!
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 05:57 PM
Nov 2013

I DID manage to spirit away a set of infra-red barrier lights. I still have them. Part of the reason I wanted them was because prior, I had worked at the company that made them. 25 years now - they've collected dust in the garage. Of course, if I hadn't "rescued" them they'd be landfill now.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
3. I'm sure they'll deal with this...
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:41 AM
Nov 2013

As soon as they put a stop to poor folks abusing food stamps and old folks draining the system with their socialist entitlement programs.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
35. Adjusting military pay and benefits isn't even scratching the surface of our obscene military budget
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 09:14 PM
Nov 2013

A majority of US military engage in repeated fraudulent behavior, bilking taxpayers out of billions of dollars over the years. If they get caught they get a slap on the wrist only to turn around and repeat it again.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
4. That "waste" is also a method for covertly siphoning off cash
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:47 AM
Nov 2013

Some of it goes into black budget operations. Some lines private pockets. Some may take the form of bribes and kickbacks to keep the gravy train flowing.

Unaccountable money is what fuels any corrupt system, and the Pentagon is perhaps the biggest source of it.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
8. Some of it is going into the pockets of certain politicians...
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 12:20 PM
Nov 2013

That's why we keep seeing these millionaire Representatives from rural districts.

Response to OneCrazyDiamond (Original post)

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
7. Compare the systems efforts described here
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 12:17 PM
Nov 2013

with those of the ACA.

There's a commonality running all thru these systems failures.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
14. my guess is that Yahoo is as about as accurate as the rest
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 12:54 PM
Nov 2013

which isn't a compliment to Yahoo or the rest.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
12. it seems that they are more comfortable with
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 12:53 PM
Nov 2013

antiquated and inefficient accounting systems instead of embracing better systems.

But the Navy, according to the report, has essentially stuck to some of its bad habits. Financial office staffers “used inefficient manual processes and journal vouchers to report the amount of military equipment assets on its financial statements,” according to the report conducted from August 2012 to March 2013.

If the Navy used the new system to record the value of its military equipment, then it could track the equipment's "actual costs from acquisition through retirement," the IG report said.

Four Navy commands were affected – air, sea, supply systems, and space and warfare. Instead of using one new system that swept up everything they controlled, the Navy’s financial officers juggled data from six separate, antiquated accounting systems, according to the report.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/07/22/12984/navy-sea-lousy-books

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
19. The Military Polices Itself
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 01:25 PM
Nov 2013

So, of course, corruption and waste will be rampant. Also, there needs to be whistle-blower protection or it will be completely covered up. It is like commanders having control over the prosecution for rape by members under their command. It guarantees failure. Every time.

okaawhatever

(9,461 posts)
45. There was a whistleblower law but Obama greatly expanded it in 2009 and again in 2011. They have
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:44 PM
Nov 2013

accomplished quite a bit. Obama commissioned the Rand group to study the problems and make recommendations. The Rand group worked in conjunction with the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense and came up with 12 recommendations which have been implemented. That includes a 54% increase in staff. A few defense contractor investigations resulted in:

During 2011, DCIS reviewed 138 qui tam referrals that resulted in 56 investigations. Highlights of this work include the following:
On March 23, 2012, it was announced that Lifewatch Services would resolve allegations of fraud against the company by paying an $18.5 million civil settlement.
American Grocers, Inc. case resulting in a $15 million return.
Boeing Company case resulting in a $25 million return.
Northrup Grumman case resulting in a $325 million return to the federal government.

I looked it up because I was wondering if there was a financial reward to the whistleblower like there is with Medicare fraud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Defense_Whistleblower_Program

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
20. Holy crap! They use at least 2200 DIFFERENT accounting systems!
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 01:27 PM
Nov 2013

And there may be as many as 5000...Including a number of ancient COBOL systems dating from the 1970's!

No WONDER they can't keep track of everything. I can't even imagine trying to reconcile data from that many different accounting systems onto a single ledger. I've done enterprise ERP installations for corporations that cost tens of millions in software development and integration charges alone, and the most complex of them didn't touch even a fraction of that number. It would be an impossible task to crosswalk that many accounting systems into anything even remotely usable. What a clusterf***!

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
24. Any time you encounter "chaos" or "complexity"
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:23 PM
Nov 2013

or "incompetence" in these kinds of things, bear in mind it's serving some serious plunder. There are doubtless many who want to keep it this way, and -- just to heighten the joke -- will end up reaping billions more on contracts to rationalize the accounting.

The old $1000 hammer is not a mistake. It's a feature, it's the essence of what this machinery is all about.

Oh no, wait: they're defending your freedom. You wouldn't even be alive without them! Do you hate the troops?

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
21. Just finished reading article
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 01:28 PM
Nov 2013

and was about to post the link, but this paragraph in it sums it up pretty neatly:


Because of its persistent inability to tally its accounts, the Pentagon is the only federal agency that has not complied with a law that requires annual audits of all government departments. That means that the $8.5 trillion in taxpayer money doled out by Congress to the Pentagon since 1996, the first year it was supposed to be audited, has never been accounted for. That sum exceeds the value of China's economic output last year

LittleGirl

(8,282 posts)
27. that was when I couldn't control my silence
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:36 PM
Nov 2013

and spoke words that can't be typed here but they were really close to WTF?

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
23. K&R
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:17 PM
Nov 2013

All of us (99%) have to be accountable for every penny we make.

But a branch of the military? Accountable?

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
25. Hm, last time the plunder machine
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:24 PM
Nov 2013

known as the MIC got this much attention for their accounting, it was Sept. 10, 2001, almost time for their most massive budget increases ever. That was when Rumsfeld held a press con to announce they were having trouble reconciling $2.3 trillion worth of their books!

Motherfucking hole.

No, sorry.

Sacred hole! Glorious hole! Hole that defends our freedoms! Throw more money in the hole!


 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
26. Sounds a lot like Medicare fraud problem
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:27 PM
Nov 2013

where scum like GOv. Rick Scott got away with billions in Medicare fraud before he was finally caught. We need an outside organization to investigate and monitor govt contracts exclusively.

From article;
"Having billions of dollars of open, unaudited contracts stretching back to the 1990s is clearly unacceptable, and places taxpayer dollars at risk of misuse and mismanagement," Senator Thomas Carper, a Delaware Democrat and chairman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, said in an email response to questions. "We must make sure that the Department of Defense is actively assessing risks and making sure that contractors who fall underneath the threshold remain accountable for their work."

View gallery."Crane operator Mark Brookin navigates his crane between …
Crane operator Mark Brookin navigates his crane between shelves in the high-rise storage area of the …
Spotty monitoring of contracts is one reason Pentagon personnel and contractors are able to siphon off taxpayer dollars through fraud and theft - amounting to billions of dollars in losses, according to numerous GAO reports. In many cases, Reuters found, the perpetrators were caught only after outside law-enforcement agencies stumbled onto them, or outsiders brought them to the attention of prosecutors.

In May this year, Ralph Mariano, who worked as a civilian Navy employee for 38 years, pleaded guilty in federal court in Rhode Island to charges of conspiracy and theft of government funds related to a kickback scheme that cost the Navy $18 million from 1996 to 2011. Mariano was sentenced November 1 to 10 years in prison and fined $18 million.

Mariano admitted that as an engineer at the Naval Undersea Warfare Center in Newport, Rhode Island, he added money to contracts held by Advanced Solutions for Tomorrow. The Georgia-based company then paid kickbacks to Mariano and others, including friends and relatives.

Mariano was charged more than five years after the allegations against him first emerged in a 2006 civil whistleblower lawsuit in federal court in Georgia that had been kept under seal. Court documents suggest one reason why the conspiracy went undetected for so long: The Navy not only gave Mariano authority to award money to contractors; it also put him in charge of confirming that the contractors did the work. The Navy never audited any of the contracts until after Mariano was arrested, a Navy spokeswoman confirmed.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
40. A culture of corruption.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 09:41 AM
Nov 2013

It's an invitation to fraud.

"The Navy never audited any of the contracts until after Mariano was arrested, a Navy spokeswoman confirmed."

benld74

(9,904 posts)
28. The largest portion of each budget, resorts to falsification of records,,,
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 02:38 PM
Nov 2013

AND THEY get increased each year!!!

The Wizard

(12,541 posts)
30. Not to mention the largest
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 05:35 PM
Nov 2013

consumer of petroleum in the world. And Americans are too chickenshit to question the military out of fear of being labeled soft on the ism of the day, terrorism, communism.............
A nation of cowards. Home of the brave my ass. If it's the land of the free, why is everything so expensive?

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
38. Or they can just open a bank......
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:03 AM
Nov 2013

...and let the Fed quantitatively straighten things out for them.






K&R

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
41. Kicked and recommended.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 09:43 AM
Nov 2013

Do we want to stop this?

We sure could use some help from the media. Remember when a program like 60 Minutes would be all over this? Those days are long gone.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
43. About 25 years ago
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:01 PM
Nov 2013

The Government Accounting Office tried auditing the Pentagon's books. After three years, they gave it up as an impossible job.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
49. Defund the Pentagon
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 06:01 PM
Nov 2013

Seriously, they did it to Acorn so easily. They did it to Meals on Wheels so easily. Why is it so hard?

unhappycamper

(60,364 posts)
50. Perhaps we should rethink what we spend our money on.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:43 AM
Nov 2013

We christened our newest $5+ billion dollar destrpyer AND floated our $40 billion dollar USS Gerald R Ford.





From your link:

Plugs also are symptomatic of one very large problem: the Pentagon's chronic failure to keep track of its money - how much it has, how much it pays out and how much is wasted or stolen.

This is the second installment in a series in which Reuters delves into the Defense Department's inability to account for itself. The first article examined how the Pentagon's record-keeping dysfunction results in widespread pay errors that inflict financial hardship on soldiers and sap morale. This account is based on interviews with scores of current and former Defense Department officials, as well as Reuters analyses of Pentagon logistics practices, bookkeeping methods, court cases and reports by federal agencies.

As the use of plugs indicates, pay errors are only a small part of the sums that annually disappear into the vast bureaucracy that manages more than half of all annual government outlays approved by Congress. The Defense Department's 2012 budget totaled $565.8 billion, more than the annual defense budgets of the 10 next largest military spenders combined, including Russia and China. How much of that money is spent as intended is impossible to determine.

In its investigation, Reuters has found that the Pentagon is largely incapable of keeping track of its vast stores of weapons, ammunition and other supplies; thus it continues to spend money on new supplies it doesn't need and on storing others long out of date. It has amassed a backlog of more than half a trillion dollars in unaudited contracts with outside vendors; how much of that money paid for actual goods and services delivered isn't known. And it repeatedly falls prey to fraud and theft that can go undiscovered for years, often eventually detected by external law enforcement agencies.

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