Devyani Khobragade: India seeks US official's withdrawal
Source: BBC
India has asked the US to withdraw an official from its embassy in Delhi in a row over the arrest of an Indian diplomat in New York.
Devyani Khobragade is flying home after she was ordered to leave the US having been indicted on criminal charges.
...
Some local reports say Washington has been asked to withdraw a diplomat of a "similar rank" as Ms Khobragade from its Delhi mission.
Others quote an unnamed government official as saying the US official was involved in the case relating to Ms Khobragade - although this is yet to be confirmed.
Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25683915
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dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 11, 2014, 05:47 AM - Edit history (1)
are of similar rank and who have been charged with visa fraud and underpayment of household staff.
kelly1mm
(4,732 posts)
SolutionisSolidarity
(606 posts)kelly1mm
(4,732 posts)of visa fraud and underpayment of household staff" referring to the Indian diplomat. The FACT is that she has not, and most likely will not ever be found guilty.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)I've edited my post.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)The United States says it will withdraw a diplomat from its embassy in New Delhi after India demanded the expulsion, in a growing dispute between the two countries. Wayne May has been identified as the diplomat leaving the U.S. embassy in New Delhi. Media reports say he was instrumental in coordinating the case against an Indian diplomat the U.S. accuses of underpaying her housekeeper. He also is reported to have helped the family of the housekeeper receive visas allowing them to go to the...
Read more at http://www.onenewspage.com/n/Africa/7509aoy7u/US-Withdraws-Diplomat-After-India-Demands-Expulsion.htm#Y4YKdTkYXv4M4UXM.99
marble falls
(57,063 posts)
Recursion
(56,582 posts)So, basically, northern India is now without a consular chief.
marble falls
(57,063 posts)craft is met. I have no sympathy with the Indian side of this issue. If they want to cut US presence in India, so be it.
kelly1mm
(4,732 posts)her to come back? nt
GermanSmoker
(91 posts)The USA hast to learn that the world is fed up with their arrogance.
I hope India humiliates US Diplomats in an equal way.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)you just bigoted against Americans?
Because you're fake outrage is over someone being punished for a very real crime. But, maybe you're cool with human trafficking the way that India's government is.
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)So you support human trafficking??
Recursion
(56,582 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)That is what this woman is being charged with.
Tell me how holding someone to account for breaking the law is "arrogance". When people are charged with crimes, they are arrested.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)who lied on a visa application so she could pay her domestic help slave wages. It aint the US that deserves humiliation and, with all due respect, you sound like a moron.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)But can you defend the human trafficking this woman did?
JI7
(89,244 posts)people like maids who are beated and are pretty much slaves.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)WikiLeaks: Texas Company Helped Pimp Little Boys To Stoned Afghan Cops
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_texas_company_helped.php
again...
Sex-slave whistle-blowers vindicated
http://www.salon.com/2002/08/06/dyncorp/
DU wasn't really around for the first time. But the second time all the stops were pulled out on this board to defend them because it was a Manning leak and Manning is a threat to America or some bullshit.
Still waiting on those prosecutions....
SolutionisSolidarity
(606 posts)If India has a problem with that, it only reflects badly on them and their supporters.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)to America!
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Whenever one official of a country is declared PNG, that country declares another official of the first country PNG.
Nevertheless, India-haters on this forum will weave a whole cloth out of it because they perceive India as taking away their jobs when in fact it is the US corporations have taken their jobs to India.
Also, presumption of innocence doesn't apply to Indians. There have been no public disclosure of any sort -- only cryptic news conferences and yet, someone is already found guilty of "human trafficking."
Bravo DU.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)of Indian diplomats not paying their domestic staff?
Seriously, you would think India would have learned from the last two times or, at least, like Russia would have upgraded her or called her back after Bharara gave them the warning in September.
But, fine, continue with your persecution complex.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)What do you mean there has been no public disclosure? Her indictment is online, for the world to read.....although I understand why her supporters would ignore it....it's too damning.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to avoid a trial where evidence would be introduced.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Which means 3 or 4 years in Arthur Road Jail (actually next door to me, incidentally) until the docket clears.
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)think the issue here is railroading.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Can any of the human trafficker's defenders explain the 3$ an hour wage and the confiscation of the passport?????
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)One is that it is from a grand jury where ONLY the maid's words are taken as true and sacrosanct.
Notwithstanding this, if the maid was given a second contract to sign and was told that the official contract was fake, the maid ALSO engaged in fraud. Furthermore, the maid, in her interview at the US embassy repeated the fraud by acknowledging that the fake contract was in fact real.
Any other person would have refused employment if asked to sign a fake contract and lie about it. This clearly shows (irrespective of Dr. Khobragade's guilt or innocence) that the maid was scheming and entrapped Dr. Khobragade by showing up for work, agreeing to the inferior terms with a plan to use it in order to get an immigration visa in the US for her and her family.
I would have had no problem if both the maid and Dr. Khobragade were charged for fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud and visa violations.
I would not have had any problem if Dr. Khobragade was just served with a criminal complaint and summoned to appear for an arraignment. The arrest was unnecessary. Why let the Russian consular officials accused of medicaid fraud of hundreds of thousands go without arrest but arrest this woman.
Lastly, my objections are not related to Dr. Khobragade as a person but because she was an official representative of a sovereign state which is an ally of the US and the latter should have been respected. If Dr. Khobragade was a CEO of a private company, I would not have complained.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)it to the US Embassy? That's laughable.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)we are only hearing the maid's side.
Maid may have said her passport was taken -- where is the proof of that?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)to the courts in Delhi were included in the evidence given to the grand jury, as the indictment indicates. Khobrogade's own false filings seemed to have doomed her.
So you are defending a liar on two continents.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)documents don't always tell the real story.
Khobragade's version of events could be different. The second contract can have many reasons such as sheltering of income tax for the maid in India.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)to file criminal charges in Delhi against the nanny, who had absconded at that point, she didn't tell her story????
No...what happened was that Khobrogade tried to file false criminal charges in Delhi against her maid, lied doing so (attaching false documents) and was then hoist on her own petard when the NYC grand jury got ahold of her fradulent filings.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)How could she have filed anything under oath in Delhi? -- probably some government lawyer did.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Taking a break from one of his many illegally-gotten Maharashtra apartments to do so.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)There are things called phones...email...mail.....
Information Report (the filed in July 2013 by KHOBRAGADE, an arrest warrant was
issued in India charging the Victim with extortion, cheating, and participating in a conspiracy. In
the FIR, which is described more fully below, KHOBRAGADE acknowledged that the
agreed-upon salary for the Victim was 30,000 rupees per month, not the salary based on an hourly
wage of $9.75 as represented to the U.S. Embassy at the time of the visa application. The FIR is
attached as Exhibit G.
17
EVOLVING STORY
49. On or about July 2, 2013, KHOBRAGADE submitted the FIR to the Indian
government against the Victim and the Victim's Husband for fraud, willful deceit, harassment and
extortion. In the FIR, KHOBRAGADE stated, in substance and in part, the following:
a. "[The Victim] will come to New York to take care of
household work for salary of Rs 30000/-- and arrangement of stay
and food."
b. On June 18, 2013, the Victim went to KHOBRAGADE's office at
Consulate General of India and requested, among other things, to live outside the Khobragade U.S.
Residence. In sum and substance, KHOBRAGADE acknowledged denying the Victim's request
to live outside of the Mission, which is the Victim's right under U.S. law.
She was very busy in July, filing all sorts of things in India.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Unfortunately, cosmicone's view is actually taken seriously here in India, as absurd as it is.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)aside for military families . which was another case of them turning in false documents in order to get what they want.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)the consular would have had the right to make a statement upon her arrest if she choose to. My guess is she didn't. We don't know for sure. She did have her cell phone when she was arrested and I'd bet she was told not to say anything (she did have the right to remain silent). If you accept these two mild assumptions, then there would be no statement to take into consideration. The maid's family was being pressured in India to drop the charges. How do we know she was not pressured to sign the contracts? The answer is we will never know because Dr. Khobragade refused to talk.
As for her arrest, I agree the strip search was a bit much. The other option would have been to ask her to stay at her home rather than taking her to jail. I think that would have still pissed people off though even though it would have been less severe.
I also have a problem with the continued revenge by India. The question is when does it end? They seem hell bent on making things worse. Since this has happened they have and continue to take actions against the US. I highly doubt this is over. Watch in the next week for them to continue the same.
She'll now return home a national hero for standing up to the "great Satan" and meanwhile people on DU will continue to bash the US and make things up about her arrest and subsequently what happened afterward.
Sorry, but I find the whole thing a little disheartening.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)however, if she (the maid) had refused to sign the second agreement and lie, she would not have been pressured to go work in the US. There is no shortage of candidates for housework in India. The Khobragade's would have simply found another maid.
There was no way Devyani Khobragade would have given a statement. Any lawyer's first advice to a client is to not say anything to anyone about the case.
Whatever defense I had of her on DU and elsewhere was not of her as a person but as an official representative of a country of over a billion people. As a person, her character is not pristine and her dad is a completely corrupt jerk in India.
However, we need to respect the office she holds, however unsavory she might be as a person. The general protocol is to declare such pernicious characters persona non grata and force them to be recalled by their country. If that had been done, I'd have been all for it.
Arresting foreign representatives, immunity or not, is not in the national interest of the US. If this had been done to a US consular official abroad, there would have been an uproar here. Why should we expect anything different in India and be surprised by it?
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)As to the second contract, she may have been under personal pressure to sign it or she would have been sent home. I'm not sure what the labor market is like for the type of job she has but it sounds like she wouldn't have been able to get a job.
I think even if we had taken the highest road possible, like you are saying, there would have still been blowback from it. Wouldn't we have to give a legitimate reason why India would have to recall her? They probably still would have been offended and made a bigger deal out of it than it was.
Also as you said in another post, the rules allow them to choose someone of similar rank to get rid of who is from the US.
I live in South Korea and have seen some situations occur between the two countries, but they were quite different.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)BEFORE she got a US Visa.
The maid could have refused to sign it. Her husband is well-paid as another embassy's chauffeur and her in-laws work for the US embassy.
The maid got a job that many people in India would have killed for and it put the maid's family income in the 80th percentile of Indian jobs. They were making some 90,000 rupees a month when employed senior doctors and engineers make about 50-60,000.
I am not denying Devyani's culpability but the maid participated in the conspiracy of the two contracts and lied in her US Visa interview as well. What was her motive? To gain a US immigration visa for her and her family without standing in line for years like thousands of other Indians. This was a clever short-cut. No doubt the Khobragade's made it easy by playing into her hands, however, the scheme is indubitable.
Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)As long as she has immunity. And I suspect she will never lose it.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)I express pleasure when a drone kills terrorists... whether they are in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen or Sudan.
Please correct your distorted view.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=106404
If they don't want innocent people to die, turn over their own ISI terrorists to the US authorities and stop being a state sponsoring terror.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014358634#post12
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014360746#post6
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)the drone strike had killed terrorists.
Again, misrepresenting my views.
JI7
(89,244 posts)and one wonders why there are such problems there ?
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)A. there is a difference between rapists and terrorists
B. I have consistently supported life in prison or the death penalty for rapists in India depending upon how badly the victim is injured.
Do you really spin everything to suit your viewpoint? Perhaps you have a future as a star on Fox News.
JI7
(89,244 posts)so the victim is worse off by which in which case to you ?
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Put your thinking cap on and concentrate...
Terrorists kill and maim dozens to hundreds in one act.
Rapists generally injure only one in each act.
Remember 9/11? Dar e Salaam and Nairobi bombings? Oklahoma city bombing? Attack on marine barracks in Beirut? Munich olympics? Bus bombings in Tel Aviv? Those acts and others were caused by terrorists.
Here is how you can get an A on this course -- name five well known acts performed by a rapist where he raped more than three in once incidence.
JI7
(89,244 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)harmed and killed in terrorist attacks.
The issue was not the number of victims.
The issue was difference between "a" terrorist and "a" rapist.
By your logic, since there are a lot more drunk driving caused deaths than those caused by terrorist attacks, drunk drivers are worse than terrorists. That logic is faulty.
JI7
(89,244 posts)i can see it with all the bs outrage.
just like republicans and their outrage over benghazi while nothing about sandy hook.
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)claiming "unofficially" that several things happened that were proven (or redacted) later when found to be untrue. I think they are just rattling sabers for the right wing crowd in Delhi.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,336 posts)Diplomats have to be good jugglers and tap-dancers.
Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)Say no. The US didn't do anything wrong. She allegedly did for filling false papers and paying her "nanny" $3.31 an hour.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,295 posts)The US state department said it deeply regretted the move and hoped that it would bring closure to the case.
...
The state department said it now hoped India would return to constructive ties with the US.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25690540
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Instead of arresting a representative of the people of India, they could have simply declared her PNG and she would have had to leave, which is standard diplomatic practice that all countries follow.
But no --- Preet Bharara had to prove what a good American he has become by using excessive measures.
This in light of the fact that US consular officials who were caught taking bribes, asking for sexual favors in lieu of visa and even engaged in pedophilia were never allowed to be tried by the host country and were whisked away by bearing extreme pressure on the foreign countries to make them submit. All of these people were never tried in the US and retired with full pensions.
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)should have been arrested and tried?
I do. And so should this woman.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)I think that the host country should declare them PNGs and have them withdrawn out of respect for their office and the sovereignty of their country and then submit the evidence to their employing government for proper action.
I was only pointing out the criminality of US consular and embassy officials to highlight hypocrisy.