Edward Snowden completely abandoned girlfriend, says her father

[onehandle]

Source: The Telegraph

[IMG][/IMG]

Edward Snowden's girlfriend was "left to fend for herself" when the former NSA contractor gave up their Hawaiian life together to disclose the scale of America's surveillance state, her father has said.

Mr Snowden did not leave any financial provisions for Lindsay Mills when he departed for Hong Kong, telling her that he was on a business trip and would return in a few weeks, Jonathan Mills said.

The 28-year-old Ms Mills has not spoken publicly in the seven months since their lives together were upended by Mr Snowden's to go public with thousands of classified documents.

In an interview at his home outside Washington, Mr Mills said his only daughter was still "trying to make sense of everything and come up with a plan for herself". Mr Snowden had not been in contact with her since leaving Hong Kong for Russia, where he has been granted temporary asylum, Mr Mills said.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10580662/Edward-Snowden-completely-abandoned-girlfriend-says-her-father.html

[MADem]

1. She needs to write a book. She's got plenty of pictures, she might as well make some money. nt

[Titonwan]

4. She makes money.

Granted, it takes 15 minutes at the store to pay in ones, but still.

[MADem]

21. What an uncouth thing to say. She's not a stripper. No need to insinuate she is.

She is an acrobat, more than a dancer. She used to work (maybe still does?) with a dance troupe that sometimes entertained the tourists in Cirque de Soleil type shows.

Why do you want to put the woman down like that?

Mills's blog and social media accounts reveal the couple visited Hong Kong once before, on a vacation, and also lived in Japan. Mills used the blog as a personal diary and promotional tool for her work as a member of the Waikiki Acrobatic Troupe, a collection of around 30 dancers.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/11/edward-snowden-lindsay-mills-guardian


http://being808.com/2013/07/01/video-learning-trust-and-strength-with-the-waikiki-acrobatic-troupe/

[madokie]

181. Flagged for review

About Titonwan
Statistics and Information
Account status: Flagged for review
Member since: Thu Nov 13, 2008, 04:08 PM
Number of posts: 464
Number of posts, last 90 days: 228

The wheels of justice grinds slowly but grind they do

[MADem]

185. Good. That kind of 'tude is just outta line. nt

[Scootaloo]

30. Wow. This shit's still being used?

I'm just curious, did you giggle to yourself?

[snooper2]

79. so I have one hidden post that is two months old...

Are you worth another one, got plenty of a buffer till five...


Hmmm.....

Nah, you aren't worth it LOL

[MADem]

155. Good decision.

Sometimes, it's best to just let a reputation grow on its own--and that particular poster is wasting no time in establishing one.

[cosmicone]

88. The question is

when did you start hating women?

[Thinkingabout]

2. He has totally returned to the control of his puppet masters.

[Titonwan]

3. Oh cry me a damned river

First of all- a right wing propaganda arm of the GCHQ (the Telegraph) is spouting this sympathy rant. Second, if he had told her his plans- he'd be in Guantanamo right now (we are talkin' about intelligence matters, y'all). And third, why don't someone ask Edward about this? This is 'the Enquirer', 'the Star' and 'The New York Daily Post' all wrapped into one piece of speculative bullcrap.
Yes, let's all dwell on the poor stripper in Hawaii who has no visible means of support. Edward is a cad, I tells ya! (snort)

[SharonAnn]

141. If she had done this would we be reading "He's been "abandoned by his girlfriend?"

[MADem]

143. Again, with the 'stripper' slur. She's a graduate of a prestigious art college in MD who enjoys

performing with an acrobatic troupe that has a forty year history in Hawaii. She's not a stripper.

It's not a way to make money--it's an avocation.

You're digging a fine hole for yourself, though.

[orpupilofnature57]

176. Your daffy, pulling your taffy .

[totodeinhere]

5. I would have to hear Snowden's side of this story before jumping to any

conclusions about it. But I do know that this is totally irrelevant to Snowden's revelations about NSA spying.

[George II]

16. It's a commentary on his character, which seems sorely lacking

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. Then you definitely better not date him.

[Matariki]

52. Giving up a secure and comfortable life to expose wrong doing takes tremendous character

[Maedhros]

18. She's a grown woman.

She can take care of herself. This isn't 19th century London and she's not some fragile, kept lady. From her father's description, she sounds like quite the capable young artist.

[anasv]

67. hear, hear Maedhros

Why on earth should he be obligated to financially support a livein.

[Helen Borg]

72. Yes!

What the father says is kinda humiliating for her and all women, actually.

[1StrongBlackMan]

84. +1 ...

This article should have never left the editor's desk ... unless the segment was a "What it they doing now" kind of thing.

[Demeter]

111. Her father sounds like a proxy for a gold digger

She was probably glad to leave home.

[randome]

117. Injecting himself into the matter does sound like gold digging.

What's to be gained by reminding everyone of this?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[wordpix]

173. graduate of "prestigious" art institute should be able to find a job

and guess what? When you shack up without a marriage license, you have no rights to your partner's assets unless you are a longtime live-in and sue for palimony. Good luck with that if she didn't live with Snowden long and has a college degree. Sorry for her broken heart but the rest is baloney.

[Ash_F]

157. Or his girlfriend's side of the story

Sounds like a daddy don't approve situation. Let the girl speak for herself, if she wishes to speak at all.

Edit - On actually reading the article, I see that might not be the case. Looks like a misleading headline.

[azureblue]

6. boring

yet another pathetic attempt at a character assassination, to draw attention away from the content of what he exposed. Just pathetic.. Give it a rest, will ya?

[Scuba]

74. +1,000

[truth2power]

103. Thanks, azureblue, and welcome to DU. You'll notice that

there are a number of posts around here that display a kind of, um...immature tone.

It's about distraction to keep people from discussing, as you said, "the content of what he exposed."

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

7. Enough of this Snowden character. Don't we have any beach pix of the POTUS

to pass around?

[MyNameGoesHere]

8. Also in the National Enquirer SWISS CHEESE PERVERT BUSTED AT GUN POINT

I never thought we would be using shopping checkout news as latest breaking, umm "news"

[jakeXT]

62. It was in the Lounge

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018554867

[MyNameGoesHere]

92. Wow. We got some interesting folks here.

Interesting indeed.

[SoapBox]

9. He's a self-centered little Traitor, with some kind of warped sense of "duty".

BUT the idiot never even thought about any consequences.

Comrade Eddie, maybe you thought you would get a ticker tape parade and be hailed by all as a hero? More likely your a nut that hates America.

And guess you didn't really care about the GF or your own family that you shit on, since you are never, ever coming back to America. Enjoy Russia...or China...or Somalia...or where ever you end up, as a puppet for them.

I still wonder who put him up to this...some terrorists or some ego driven "journalist"?

[JackInGreen]

14. Ye know?

I never expected to encounter that kind of...80s flavored 'kill a commie for mommy, they don't love their girlfriends and hate mom and apple pie' rhetoric here...and with a sig line I like too. Thanks for the momentary cogdis. Cheers.

[brush]

66. Snowden should have stuck to releasing info gathering on just the domestic front

That was legitimate whistle-blowing.

Releasing information on our international intelligence gathering (all countries that can afford it do it, btw), damaged our relationships with some foreign governments and possibly blew the cover and endangered the lives of our operatives and the foreign nationals they worked with.

I mean, who is Snowden to decide that the intricacies of our international intelligence gathering should be released to the world?

WHO IS HE TO MAKE THAT DECISION?

IMO he's part whistle-blower and part something else.

Some call what he did on exposing our international, covert operations sedition, or even treason, I'll just call him a defector for now.

[anasv]

187. all the other countries

I guess your parents never told you, Just because everybody else does it, doesn't mean it's right. And it isn't clear everybody else does it. Do you think the Germans are listening in on the U.S. President's phone calls?

Snowden is a hero.

[brush]

189. The domestic info gathering must stop, however . . .

being that other countries, hostile ones and even our allies spy on us, you better believe we should be in the game of trying to intercept, through covert operations, possible threats to our country.

And btw, did you know that there are stirrings to release Jonathan Pollard who spied on us for Israel in the 1980s? That's right, Israel, our staunchest ally in the Middle East spies on us and you can bet many other countries do as well.

As I said in the title to this post, I'm with you on the domestic spying but Snowden went too far with the international revelations as even the little we know that was publically released has damaged international relationships. So c'mon, it's not about — and these are your words — "I guess your parents never told you, Just because everybody else does it, doesn't mean it's right."

It's the real, grown up world out there and there are bad actors we need to keep tabs on. Even us progressives should be aware of that.

[Hissyspit]

45. Do you have anything??

Other than rabid "America Love It Or Leave It!!" argle-bargle?

[1000words]

54. Let's cut to the chase, shall we? You're ordinary. Edward Snowden is not.

Your sphere of influence is anonymous postings on an insignificant web site.
Somehow, I don't think accepting that realization is going to be an easy transition for you.

[mimi85]

153. Thank goodness

The world doesn't need any more Snowdens, or Greenwalds and for sure we don't need any more Assanges.

[KurtNYC]

77. I was in a coal mine once and there was this narcissistic little canary

Little bird was all like "look at me, I can't breathe! You're all going to die if you don't get to fresh air!"

It was all about him. We told him to shut up.

Right before we passed out.

[TBF]

123. ...

[TBF]

122. The 50s called and McCarthy needs you

back in the office ... and while you're there you can review:

your: possessive adjective
you're: contraction of "you are"

[yurbud]

170. That's the shallowest comment in a shallow thread

[zeemike]

10. I guess she had a contract with him that he would support her then.

And he violated it.
That is what marriage is, a contract, but I don't think there is one for girlfriend is there?
What a piece of crap this story is...and is kind of a slap at womens liberation to say we should be sorry for her because she was dependent on him.

[Whisp]

19. If they lived together for a certain length of time

(in Canada it is 6 months) then they are considered as a common law marriage with all the rights and wot wots of a legal papered one. I don't know how it works in Hawaii but if so it's not like he just dumped a girlfriend, he abandoned his wife.

[zeemike]

23. Did they present themselves as a married couple?

If so when?...and to whom?

Common-law marriage (sometimes spelled without a hyphen), and also known as sui juris marriage, informal marriage or marriage by habit and repute, is an irregular form of marriage that can be legally contracted in an extremely limited number of jurisdictions.

The original concept of a common-law marriage is a marriage that is considered valid by both partners, but has not been formally registered with a state or church registry, or a formal religious service. In effect, the act of the couple representing themselves to others as being married acts as the evidence that they are married. In jurisdictions recognizing common-law marriages, such a marriage is not legally distinct from a traditional ceremonial marriage enacted through a civil or religious ceremony in terms of the couple's rights and obligations to one another.

The term "common-law marriage" is sometimes also used as a synonym for legal agreements including domestic partnerships, reciprocal beneficiaries relationships and non-marital relationship contracts. In these cases, two people live together without considering themselves each other's spouses, but do still create a legal agreement to manage their relationship, obligations to one another or shared assets. In some cases, such partnerships may be created because the couples do not have the ability to marry one another legally. "Common-law marriage" is also often used colloquially or by the media to refer to cohabiting couples, regardless of any rights that these couples may have, which can create public confusion both in regard to the term and in regard to the rights of unmarried partners. [1]

[MADem]

24. She lived with him in Japan, and he took her to Hong Kong on vacation

(not the last time he went, mind you). They then moved as a couple to Hawaii.

I think she had an expectation that they were to be wed.

[Luminous Animal]

125. Really. I lived with a man for 16 years and had a child

with him with no expectations of marriage. Neither one of us had any such expectation.

[MADem]

140. Well, good for you! You do realize that your attitudes are unique to yourself, and don't

automatically transfer to others, I trust?

Frankly, I'll take her father's word, and her own words, written on her blog, over the assertions of strangers, as to her intentions and expectations.

[Luminous Animal]

146. "she was in the back of her mind planning marriage and a life together" hahahaha!!

In the back of her mind, indeed!

[MADem]

152. They'd lived together for quite some time. She spoke of tranquil domestic moments on her blog.

Why do you feel the need to dig in, and mock and laugh at her?

I find your attitude rather "Mean Girls-ish," to put it bluntly.

Not your finest hour, by a long shot.

[wordpix]

174. unfortunately, she left Snowden out of that mind-discussion

[wildbilln864]

80. nonsense! eom.

[carla]

99. Yes. Utter nonsense.

It is sad how much speculation and opinion passes for "knowledge" with some people.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. ..

[JackInGreen]

12. I would think that it would be...well...

expected?
Ye know, given the whole 'overturning uncle sugars intel cart' and the fleeing the country and all.

[Newsjock]

13. Irrelevant and insulting

DU is better than this.

Wait, I thought Snowden was married to some Brazilian dude who used to be a pole dancer.

[neverforget]

15. And here comes the 2 minutes of hate for the messenger

[Egnever]

17. Not a big fan of snowden

but this seems pretty low.

[azurnoir]

20. oh geez what's she supposed to say "he told me everything"?

if she knew and did not report him before hand she'd be guilty too-this is no surprise I'm sure the US has checked out everything about her in an attempt to find out what she knew and when she knew it

This is in line with protecting her from prosecution

[KoKo]

22. Her father's probably looking for a Book Deal and Movie Rights...

She's 28 Years Old... But, given the Celebrity Culture today...a clever lawyer or PR person probably contacted them and did some work about how they could profit. Don't know their circumstances financially...but a 28 year old who was in a "relationship" these days isn't like the Victorian Days in England.

[NealK]

25. +1 n/t

[MrsKirkley]

26. I remember reading at least one article

stating Snowden misses his girlfriend. I thought maybe she was refusing to speak to him.

[Bonobo]

27. Girlfriend? "Fend for herself"?

What kind of sexist bullshit is that? You have an obligation to care for your poor weak little girlfriend?

I'd like to see some Feminists call this out.

[hughee99]

34. My first impression as well.

They're not married, they have no children, she's certainly able to work, and as far as I can tell, she hasn't been sacrificing her career to help his. Now maybe she loved him and feels betrayed, and that's understandable, but I think the idea that he has some sort of financial obligation to her at this point SHOULD be offensive to many DUers. It perpetuates the false stereotype that a woman needs a man to take care of her.

[randome]

86. I think emotional abandonment is more to the point.

Snowden lied when he broke the oath he signed. He lied to his coworkers to get their passwords. He lied to his girlfriend.

None of that is cool in my book.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[randome]

109. I don't pretend that I'm perfect.

But I don't take advantage of people's trust, especially not to 'reveal' things that were already common knowledge.

Sure, the passwords were handed over and the NSA should be embarrassed at their lack of internal security. But do you think Snowden simply had to say, 'Give me your password, please.'? More likely, he claimed he needed the passwords as some sort of security test. Then he used those passwords to copy as many classified documents as possible and fled the country.

Not cool.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[LiberalLovinLug]

139. "already common knowledge"?

So what is the big deal to you authoritarians?

personally I don't agree with that, because I certainly did not know or have it confirmed, the extent of meta data collecting the government does and the the unfettered access to that information behind closed doors.

But if you did think that everyone and their cousin was already fully aware of all of Mr. Snowden's revelations, why so up in arms because he put it out there?

I don't want to shock you but here's a secret that everyone already knows for you: The sky is blue!

[randome]

148. I'm not up in arms. Simply pointing out that all the effort Snowden went to wasn't worth it.

The sky is not falling because he stole some documents and ran. He did, however, compromise many of our international spying efforts. It's debatable as to whether they are worthwhile or not but Snowden should not get to make that decision for us.

He said he "saw things" but he won't ever say what that means. He said he could spy on the President if he wanted but somehow never did so. He made a bunch of other nefarious-sounding claims but they didn't hold up.

I think the man has a few screws loose. And I just like to be as accurate as possible when the subject comes up.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[mimi85]

158. ^^^Agreed! nt

[okaawhatever]

162. Absolutely. I was familiar with pretty much everything Snowden claimed. Laura Poitro's first two

documentaries covered it. There are also numerous articles printed with the same info. I don't think he's a hero. I don't even think he's a decent human being. I don't agree with his behavior towards his girlfriend, and I think it's more evidence of his true character.

[LiberalLovinLug]

164. Then who exactly is going to make that decision for us?

Oh....I see....what you really mean is nobody. Its better that way. We should be kept in the dark. Its better not to know...well that is until the loud knock on your own door (or your childrens down the line) and questions as to why you are logging on to a commie lib'rul site every day.

And once again its all about the messenger. A typical Fox News ploy. You find out any personal flaw (which we all have one or two) and blow it up out of proportion in order to negate any truth he may be revealing. Assange and Manning know this tactic all too well.

The broader point is that he single-handedly got the topic on the radar. He forced the head of the NSA to admit he lied about collecting private data from Americans. And no, i do not for one minute, think every American was fully aware of this or believed it to be true. There is a big percent of the population that needs official confirmation of this to believe it. Those people would have taken the NSA at their word as far as domestic spying went.

As far as revealing that the US spies on everyone, including allies... no, I don't think that is new info. The Germans and Brazilians will get a little huffy for their own populace, but then things will carry on as usual with everyone spying as much as they can get away with it, including Germany and Brazil. Snowden neither helped nor hindered that reality. Hardly any "harm".

[hughee99]

101. I agree on that, but "fend for herself"

Is the thing people should find offensive, as if Snowden should have or needed to take care of her before leaving.

[randome]

106. Agree, that's a hyperbolic phrase.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers. It's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[Luminous Animal]

126. What oath did he sign?

[randome]

132. His classified service oath, or whatever it's called.

He signed on to not divulge classified information. You can argue that he felt compelled to leak information anyways, but he stole thousands of documents and gave them away in the hope, presumably, that something would 'stick' to the current Administration.

He obviously did not read all those documents because the vast majority of them have to do with spying on other countries, which is not 'whistleblowing' by any stretch of the imagination.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[Luminous Animal]

133. So you admit he didn't sign an oath.

[randome]

137. He did sign an oath.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2014/01/did-edward-snowden-break-his-oath.html

This suggestion is mind-boggling on several levels. Among other things, Snowden signed an oath, as a condition of his employment as an NSA contractor, not to disclose classified information, and knew the penalties for violating the oath. The young men who evaded the draft, either by fleeing to Canada or serving jail terms, did so in order to avoid taking an oath to fight a war that they opposed—a war that was over, and widely reviled, by the time that Carter pardoned them.

There are no such extenuating circumstances favoring forgiveness of Snowden.

The snippet above is quoted from a previous article and the linked article disagrees with it. But, yes, he did sign an oath.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[Luminous Animal]

138. No he didn't. "On Secrecy, Oaths, and Edward Snowden"

https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2014/01/secrecy-oaths-and-edward-snowden

January 8, 2014
By Daniel Ellsberg
These two pieces, the first by Marcy Wheeler, in part commenting on the second by Amy Davidson in the New Yorker (along with Snowden himself, in his interview with Bart Gellman) are the first I've seen making a point I've been making for years: contrary to the frequent assertions in the last week (including by Fred Kaplan) that Snowden is particularly reprehensible because he "broke his OATH of secrecy," neither Snowden nor anyone else broke such a secrecy "oath."

Such an oath doesn't exist (look up "oath" on the web). Rather he—and I—broke an agreement (known as Standard Form 312) which was a condition of employment. It provides for civil or administrative penalties (e.g., losing a clearance or a job) for disclosing classified information: serious enough to keep nearly everyone quiet about...anything classified, no matter how illegal or dangerous.

The reason this matters is that Snowden, as he said to Gellman and as I've repeatedly said, did take a real "oath," just one oath, the same oath that every official in the government and every Congressperson takes as an oath of office. He and they "swore" ("or affirmed&quot "to support and defend the Constitution of the U.S., against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

They did not swear to support and defend or obey the President, or to keep secrets. But to support and defend, among other elements of the Constitution, the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments in the Bill of Rights, and Article I, section 8, on war powers. That's the oath that, as Snowden correctly said to Gellman, he upheld (as I would say I eventually did) and that Clapper and Alexander broke (along with most members of Congress).

As Snowden and I discovered, that oath turns out to be often in conflict with the secrecy agreements that he and I signed, and which we later chose to violate in support of our oath.

[randome]

150. Oath, legally binding document, it's much the same thing.

It was still a 'lie' to sign something he had no intention of doing. And since the collection of third-party business records collection have been ruled Constitutional since 1978, I don't see why he had such a conflict with it.

He might disagree with that collection but his way of expressing that disagreement is not normally how we roll here in the U.S.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Luminous Animal]

156. An employment agreement is not the same as an oath no matter how many

times you try to change the definition.

Historically, some things that were once claimed Constitutional have been subsequently reversed. The personal info that can now be attained and the information that that collection can reveal was unimaginable in 1978.

I have a conflict with it, as well. And given that some of our Democratic lawmakers who are privy to classified NSA activities have a problem with it, too; but are barred from revealing that which troubles them, I believe that Snowden rolled in the right direction.

[randome]

160. Good enough!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[1000words]

166. A comic book?

[BodieTown]

124. Bingo

Goodness gracious me, the only thing missing from this story is her clutching her pearls and fainting now that she's been dumped.

If at age 28 her life is floundering and without direction now that the man of her life is gone, she needs more help than even daddy can provide.

What rubbish.

[nolabels]

188. And with being a hansome young women.....

her biggest problem is choosing the correct gentleman friend to pursue and not much else.........

The little hurt feelings might take a little time, but probably not much either

[pa28]

28. Some say he also parked in a handicap only space once.

He's a scary scary man.

[Jefferson23]

97. lol

[oldandhappy]

29. I keep expecting to hear he is wed to a Russian lady -- for residency and all.

I suspect Putin would like to keep him for now and will do something to make him a legal resident. I am sorry about his girl friend. But she has to move on. Write a book and get a different job and move to another place with not so many memories. Snowden is not going to work out for her.

[progressoid]

32. This may be the most important news story of the year.

Maybe even the decade!

[Niceguy1]

33. if it was a republican who did that

Last edited Sat Jan 18, 2014, 03:36 AM - Edit history (1)

DU be singing a different toon. At any rate how he has treated her is a big window into his character.

[Th1onein]

43. A window into his character? What hyperbole.

Geez. Give us a break. People break up every day, for many different reasons. One good reason: Snowden is living in exile. It was hard enough for HIM to find a safe place, that wouldn't hand him over to the US/Gitmo. WHAT do you think would have happened to his girlfriend if he had taken her with him? He did her a favor. I think it was a pretty unselfish act, quite frankly.

[Niceguy1]

44. how a person acts when breaking up

Is an indication of character....simply walking away, no words, no communication when it is possible is selfish.

[Th1onein]

46. It's very UNSELFISH of him, in this case.

If he had told her anything, he would have INVOLVED her, and put her in a very bad position.

[Niceguy1]

50. a simple I am sorry,

But we all know that he can't do any wrong... just like assuage..

[Th1onein]

51. How do YOU know what's been communicated between them?

This whole argument is just stupid. And pointless. We all know that he can't do anything right, right?

[Hissyspit]

47. Yes, like that time I broke up with my girlfriend because I was

whistleblowing national secrets. Same thing happened to you, too, hunh?

[Niceguy1]

48. once he was settled

In a spot he could have contacted her....

[Th1onein]

49. Yeah, right, and put her in jeopardy, too.

Give it a break. You're wrong.

[treestar]

68. Hyperbole?

The noble, self sacrificing Eddie who is now in a safe place and saved us all from Big Brother!

Never the subject of hyperbole.

[Th1onein]

131. I was wondering when you would chime in here, on the pro-surveillance side, Treestar.

Always. Has anyone else ever noticed that? And the ! That seems to be your guys main symbol for communication. You can't counter anything with a cogent argument, so you resort to a smilie. How sad.

How does it make you feel when the majority of people here, and across the world, disagree with you? What do you tell your masters when you make absolutely no headway in convincing us that black is white, and white is black?

[treestar]

136. My point was that it's hilarious for Ed's supporters to talk of hyperbole

Because they are the ones who engage in it with regards to hero Eddie. Is it authoritarian to expect people to follow the law?

[Th1onein]

171. Is it authoritarian to expect people to follow the law? WHICH people are you talking about?

The ones who are spying on every single living breathing American, or the one who told on them?

[treestar]

178. You've resorted to the exaggeration

They are not "spying on every angle living breathing American." That's absurd. This is why it's funny that Ed's supporters could possibly call anyone on exaggeration.

You are also claiming only an "authoritarian" would expect Ed to obey the law, especially one so reasonable it includes avenues for him to use if he thought something was wrong. He could have avoided all of his travels.

[Th1onein]

186. You are willfully ignorant.

Go forth, educate thyself.

[Demeter]

112. If it was a Republican?

The only question I have about Republican marriages/relationships/one-night-stands is:

Whatever possessed her? Is she crazy?

Window into his character? Did he in any way, shape, or form implicate her in a dangerous, life and freedom-threatening situation?

I can't think that being 28, free, white and single in Hawaii is such a tremendous handicap.

[Ratty]

35. Oh my. Whatever will that poor maiden do?

Without a man to support her? Doomed to spinsterhood no doubt. What a terrible fate for such a fair and delicate damsel.

I see now Snowden is a cad of the worst caliber. Thank you for posting this. I now see he is a total traitor and I have changed my mind about him and totally support the NSA.

[MsPithy]

36. She should be grateful, too strong a connection to Snowden

and she would end up in Gitmo.

Most prisoners are there for less.

[treestar]

69. No one new is going to Gitmo

That one is beyond tired as hyperbole.

[randome]

91. You forget that all of the Bush-era abuses are Obama's fault, too.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[treestar]

93. When Obama was 17

the FISA court came into being. Thanks High School Obama.

[jimlup]

37. Gee couples break up all the time...

When they create a life in which they become dependent on the other person and then the other person exits the relationship well then they reap their folly. Moral of the story is simple. Don't become dependent on the other person.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

38. Anything passes for LBN these days.

I can hardly tell the difference between general discussion and LBN.

[Historic NY]

39. Didn't he steal away in the night leaving behind the boxes in the garage....

seems he didn't trust her either. She needs to move on because he is never coming home.

[RandiFan1290]

40. lol

[Theyletmeeatcake2]

41. Sorry she got dumped but WTF has that got to do with anything!!!!!

We're not sizing Up Snowden as a potential suitor are we?? If so then I'd say don't give him your passwords!!

[Th1onein]

42. He also has boxes in his garage!

Oh! The horror!

[1000words]

53. This is laughably lame

Seriously, Raf Sanchez should be ashamed.

[Kurovski]

55. And Laura Bush ran her boyfriend over with a car.

So, like, what the fuck ever with the bullshit folks.

[Theyletmeeatcake2]

154. Didn't he die?

[Kurovski]

159. Yes. It was awful. i think she actually rammed his car

But I'm too rushed to check it.

That has to be hard to live with. Maybe she married Little George to subconsciously punish herself?

[Psephos]

183. It took five seconds to look it up.

There is something in the human psyche that finds rumors irresistible.

........

In May 2000, a two-page police report pertaining to a fatal accident that had taken place near Midland, Texas, in 1963 was made public. It contained the information that 17-year-old Laura Welch had run a stop sign, causing the death of the sole occupant of the vehicle hers had struck. According to that report, the future First Lady had been driving her Chevrolet sedan to a local drive-in theater on a clear night shortly after 8 p.m. on 6 November 1963 when she entered an intersection without heeding the stop sign and there collided with the Corvair sedan driven by 17-year-old Michael Douglas. Also in the car with Laura Welch was her friend, 17-year-old Judy Dykes.

How fast Miss Welch might have been driving is open to question. That part of the police report is illegible, although two biographies of the First Lady refer to her as having been going 50 mph at the time of the collision. The speed limit on that portion of road was 55 mph. According to the police report neither driver had been drinking, but no tests were performed. No charges were filed as a result of the accident.

News accounts from 1963 reported the young man as having been thrown from his car and dying of a broken neck; he was pronounced dead on arrival at Midland Memorial Hospital. According to various biographies of Mrs. Bush, the boy's father had been traveling in a car immediately behind his son's and witnessed the whole thing.

The two teen girls were taken to the same hospital and treated for minor injuries that amounted to bumps and bruises.

Michael Douglas, the young man who was killed, had been a member of Laura Welch's crowd at high school and her friend. He had been a star athlete, excelling in track and football, and was looked up to by his peers not just for his athlete prowess, but for his personality and intelligence too. By all reports, he was likeable, outgoing, and funny. He was nominated as the school's most popular boy while a junior, an honor that almost always went to a senior.

There has always been speculation about the nature of his relationship with Laura Welch. One rumor asserts the two had never dated, but that Laura had been romantically interested in him. Another claims he had been Laura's boyfriend when he died, and another that he had once
been her boyfriend but the couple had subsequently broken up. (The latter theory is advanced in the 2002 biography of the Bushes, George and Laura: Portrait of an American Marriage, which states Laura Welch and Michael Douglas had dated throughout early and mid-1963, but by the fall of that year Michael was going out with Regan Gammon, one of Miss Welch's closest friends.)

<snip>

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp

[davidpdx]

56. Oh well

[JVS]

57. Fathers of ex girlfriends seldom have nice things to say. Snowden had bigger things to worry about

He gets a pass for not calling.

[solarhydrocan]

58. Democrats don't always complain about dumped girlfriends

[bravenak]

59. I don't think I care.

I am not a Snowden fan, don't like the way he went about doing what he did, but I can see why he did some of it.
But "leaving her to fend for herself"?! Give me a break, she is grown, a few years younger than I am, and I'm sure she can take care of herself. I've never needed or wanted my ex to take care of me after a relationship ended. I know when I was dancing I never left work broke even on a bad night, and what she is doing for a living seems more difficult and is way nicer than any strip club I gigged at. I'm sure she can support herself just fine.
If her daddy is so worried about it he should take it upon himself to fend for her. I understand being angry at the guy who left your daughter, but this is too much.

[Nay]

144. Her father ought to be glad Snowden made sure she knew nothing about

it, or she'd be in exile/big trouble, too.

And yes, I think all the pronouncements from the fainting couch that he was a cad are just a bit over the top. She was lucky he did it this way.

[bravenak]

147. He saved her a lot of trouble that's for sure.

She could be with him right now, unable to return home. Her father should thank his lucky stars that Snowden left her in Hawaii. He left her in a beautiful place with nice weather and a job she seems to like.
Funnily enough, keeping his lady safe from prosecution is one of the things I respect about him. I'm not a fan, But this stupid Aunt Pittypat nonsense is beyond stupid.

[LeftishBrit]

60. Typical Torygraph, acting more and more like a RW tabloid every day

Snowden may well be an unsatisfactory person in his personal life; but this doesn't affect the validity of his revelations, nor does it constitute major news; except in tabloidville.

[sendero]

61. Women leave men...

..and men leave women EVERY FUCKING DAY. Big Fat Hairy Deal.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

63. Just slip out the back, Jack, Make a new plan, Stan, ...

... go on the lam, Ed.

er, wait, that doesn't rhyme ...

[randome]

64. I agree the article is overdone.

But think how many people Snowden lied to. He broke the oath he signed. He lied to his coworkers to get their passwords. He lied to his girlfriend.

All to 'reveal' that the NSA has copies of telecom metadata, which we already knew about since 2007. Oh, and that the NSA spies on foreign individuals.

In other words, all for nothing.

Oh, and another lie: in a recent interview, he mentioned he would like to see his girlfriend again. Makes you wonder why he hasn't been in contact with her since he left the country.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

[treestar]

65. so what?

At 28, she is an adult, can she not take care of herself? They weren't married even. But then I'm surprised she hasn't tried for her 15 minutes of fame before this.

[CFLDem]

70. How is this surprising?

I mean what else should we expect a rat bastard like Snowden to do? Be responsible? Be considerate about the opinions and well-being of those closest to him?



Who knows- maybe it will turn out he named her as his beneficiary in his life insurance policy?

(I wouldn't bet on it though)

[Helen Borg]

71. Last time I checked...

Men are no longer the breadwinners. Doesn't she have a job and her own life?...

[WinkyDink]

73. Hello? WHO THE HELL CARES? COUPLES BREAK UP EVERY DAMN DAY.

[jsr]

75. Is Marriage Not Sacred Anymore?

[msanthrope]

76. He probably stuck her with the rent. That sucks, but hopefully, she'll pick better

next time.

[Bradical79]

78. She should be fine

She's ex-girlfriend to an international fugitive while also being talented, young, and beautiful. No doubt her life will be a circus for awhile, but from a financial standpoint, I think she would be in a pretty good position to make some nice cash.

[former9thward]

81. Another Crime by Snowden!

Death to him!!!

[randome]

82. Actually, the worst thing to do to Snowden would be to ignore him.

He has already self-destructed and painted himself into a corner in Russia.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[former9thward]

87. He caused the President of the U.S. to make some reforms in the NSA.

So no, he has not self-destructed and is admired by hundreds of millions of people in the world. He will do just fine much to your disappointment.

[randome]

89. I'm never disappointed in how reality plays out.

I have no skin in this game, I've simply professed my opinions, all of which are subject to change upon new information being presented.

I think 'self-destructed' is appropriate. Snowden failed to complete almost everything in life, even high school. He has no friends and he couldn't even be happy with a girlfriend.

I think what drove him to steal as much as possible and run is a deeply rooted self-image of himself as a failure. He wanted to be a hero and now he's stuck in Russia.

Just my opinion but that's how I see it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[hughee99]

180. To be accurate, he caused the President of the U.S. to make a speech.

We'll see if the reforms are ACTUALLY implemented. Oh wait, it's the NSA. We WON'T see if those reforms are actually implemented.

[former9thward]

182. Yes, I think you are right.

[Shoulders of Giants]

83. This doesn't change the fact that the government has an unconstitutional spying program.

[randome]

85. What is unconstitutional about it?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Shoulders of Giants]

94. This

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[randome]

96. Well, the metadata collection has long been ruled to be Constitutional.

Third-party business records are not 'personal effects'. Anything else?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Rules are made to be broken. Including this one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Shoulders of Giants]

113. Slavery was once ruled to be constitutional as well.

So was "seperate but equal." Just because Scalia and Thomas say something is constitutional doesn't make it so. The courts make many bad decisions. I don't see how anyone can think the government keeping a collection of all phone calls, emails, etc is "reasonable." I tend to have my own viewpoint, and don't rely on what the Supreme Court says. They screw up MANY TIMES.

[randome]

116. The key ruling occurred in 1978 under President Carter.

And the NSA needs 4 levels of approval before the metadata can even be viewed. That seems to be a good balance between privacy rights and national security to me. Carl Bernstein agrees with that. Or at least he did way back in June or July.

Keeping copies of what the telecoms already have is hardly comparable to slavery.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[Shoulders of Giants]

118. Well, they decided wrong then.

I'm not a lawyer and don't know the specifics. All I know is in my opinion, this is unconstitutional.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/16/nsa-collects-millions-text-messages-daily-untargeted-global-sweep


So is this.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/10/14/nsa-email-instant-messaging-contact-lists/2984055/


So is this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/15/nsa-phone-calls-warrants_n_3448075.html


I don't care what some ruling from 1978 says. The fourth amendment is more important. Its only a paragraph long, and is very easy to understand. If any Supreme Court Justice claims that this is constitutional, they are quite simply wrong. Just because five Supreme Court Justices rule one way or another does not change my opinion on the constitutionality of something.


I also didn't mean to compare it to slavery. I was just pointing out the fallacy in the argument that, the supreme court decided something, that means its constitutional. I personally would rather take a less than 1 percent increased chance of dying from a terrorist attack, than the government unconstitutionally spying on pretty much everything I do electronically, but that's just me.

[randome]

120. And yours is a valid opinion. I don't so much as support the NSA as think they are irrelevant to me.

But I don't see a problem with curtailing the NSA's reach, either. Thanks for your civil replies!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[neverforget]

168. And the ruling you cite is about an individual

a robber, not a massive government surveillance program. Do you see the difference in scale? Do you think the judge had this massive surveillance program in mind when he ruled for the police?

[ronnie624]

90. So?

It doesn't concern anyone but them. It is not an important issue where the conduct of political and economic affairs are concerned, and it shouldn't distract attention from the fact that barricades are being erected to prevent reform, and that the global elite class of society is consolidating its power over us with an increasingly sophisticated and powerful system of surveillance. That is what is truly relevant to us, as working class people with an enormous stake in the future of our society.

But I guess people just have to have a fucking soap opera.

[olddad56]

95. Mayeb he stole the NSA secrets and fled the country as an excuse to leave his relationship.

(humor)

[Eleanors38]

102. Shoot the messenger. The zeitgeist if our times.

[RVN VET]

104. Didn't he do her a favor by not telling her anything?

If he had told her, wouldn't she have been considered an accomplice and abettor under the law? Even if he just said he was leaving, without telling her why, wouldn't she have been subject to abuse by the government simply for knowing that he was going to leave the Country? Wouldn't the US have assumed that she must have known something else?

Hell, she's probably been under enough scrutiny by NSA and other parts of the Intelligence mob as it is.

Whether his reasons were noble or not, he probably did her a favor by not telling her he was leaving forever. He certainly did her a favor by not telling her what he had taken from NSA and what he was going to reveal to the media.

[Renew Deal]

105. He abandoned his country too

So it's no surprise

[olddad56]

115. He abandoned his country? He did the people of this country a great service by blowing the whistle.

[Renew Deal]

119. Yes, to the Chinese and Russians

[olddad56]

128. you have been watching to much Faux News.

[Renew Deal]

145. Thanks for acknowledging that I'm correct

Because all you have left is personal attacks

[Jesus Malverde]

107. boo hoo..

God bless Edward Snowden. A brave whistleblower, risking his life to inform us of the crime and treason in our midst.

Fuck the CRIMINALS, Clapper, Alexander, and their acolytes.

America’s Spies Want Edward Snowden Dead

[Union Scribe]

108. He also says, "I support him

and if I ever got word that I could help him I would try."

[Luminous Animal]

135. What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[bravenak]

149. Are you implying something?

Just come right out and say it. No need to act coy.

[blackspade]

114. So the fuck what?

Of course he 'abandoned' her.
What was he supposed to do?
Leave her with a big chunk of change and implicate her in all of the leaks?

And this has fuck all to do with what exactly?
More tabloid journalism by the M$M.

[Locrian]

163. exactly

WTF was he supposed to do? Send her secret codes so they can throw her in jail? It's not some move where love conquers all - it's better for her that she's still free without him than being used as a pawn by the gov to get him back.

[itsrobert]

121. In tell all book

she will say Edward has a small penis.

[Cleita]

127. Not the classiest way to break up with someone

but shit happens. Seems she should find someone more appreciative of her and move on instead of whining to the tabloids which makes her motives seem questionable.

[cantbeserious]

129. More Deflection - More Character Assassination - Focus On The Loss Of Privacy And The 4th Amendment

eom

[WilliamPitt]

130. Oh that poor woman!

Left to fend for herself! Here in the 21st century!



Article Fail.

[NoOneMan]

134. How Ghandi-esque

You must be all holy or holyless!

[Douglas Carpenter]

142. and he boxes in his garage too - now that we know this - at least we don't half to worry about the

gargantuan and ever growing surveillance state --- This is a relief

[hrmjustin]

151. Doubt there will be wedding bells.

[Festivito]

161. Took her 7 months to realize her boyfriend left her?

Yet, she has managed to live in Hawaii this long as a dancer paying some of the highest living prices in the world?

And, they cannot get her to say it, dad says it instead?

Hmmm.

[JoeyT]

165. Abandoned to fend for herself?

Women aren't children. He didn't drop a five year old off at the edge of a desert with half a canteen of water and best wishes. She's a grown woman. The idea that a woman is incapable of fending for herself is sexism worthy of the vilest of Republicans.

[4bucksagallon]

167. A traitor that abandons his country would feel no guilt at abandoning his girlfriend.

[yurbud]

169. This changes EVERYTHING

[fujiyama]

172. Pathetic that this is the best the Torrygraph could do

Then again, the Guardian has real reporters like Greenwald. The Telegraph is a hackish RW "news" outlet so of course they'll support the police state (like many tools on this site who have been put on ignore, the best function ever introduced on DU - sparing me much heartburn).

[penultimate]

175. They were not married and people split up all the time....

I'd feel differently if they had kids together though. It might have been a dick move on his part to just up and leave, but in the grand scheme of things, it hardly seems like that big of a deal. She's a grown woman, I'm sure she was able to continue on with her life without much issue. She may have got a bit of attention early on, but I personally forgot all about her until I read this story.

[Ilsa]

177. And if he left her pregnant, I might give a shit.

Sorry, I'm just not heartbroken over this. It's better she find out now where she stood with him than after she married him. Not matter if he's Snowden or Jones or Brown or Smith.

[nilesobek]

179. Is there any real evidence

that she is a stripper, a psychedelic dancer, or whatever the current smear attempt is? Is there anything honorable in abandoning this woman? Does she strip at the corner hole-in-the-wall club and somehow that discredits Snowden?

What is really bothering me about the whole Snowden affair is my deeply held fear that there is something he wants to reveal that is so monstrous, so incendiary that it would change America forever.

So I say we stick together to find out the truth.

[Theyletmeeatcake2]

184. Also I'm pretty sure he never put the cap back on the toothpaste........

He's a bad boy!!!!