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alp227

(32,018 posts)
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 08:11 PM Jan 2014

Obama placates Germany over NSA

Source: Deutsche Welle

In a rare interview on German television, Obama on Saturday sought to mend ties with Germany frayed last year by media reports that the US had spied on European Union citizens and bugged the mobile phone of Chancellor Angela Merkel.

"I don't need and I don't want to harm that relationship by a surveillance mechanism that somehow would impede the kind of communication and trust that we have," Obama told ZDF's main newscast, Heute-Journal.

"And so what I can say is: as long as I'm president of the United States, the chancellor of Germany will not have to worry about this," he added.

In a major speech on Friday, Obama had pledged that the NSA would not routinely spy on leaders of America's closest allies.

Read more: http://www.dw.de/obama-placates-germany-over-nsa/a-17372045



The Local: Berlin welcomes Obama pledge on NSA spying

Spiegel: ZDF-Interview zu NSA-Spionage: Obama geht auf Wiedergutmachungskurs

ZDF summary of interview of the president with Axel Zimmermann, in German: Obama: Verhältnis nicht durch Überwachung beschädigen. Includes videos of interview in both German and English. For the English version click on "Video Interview (Originalfassung)"
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vdogg

(1,384 posts)
3. Is this not an accurate statement?
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 08:51 PM
Jan 2014

What possible influence or control can he exert on the intelligence community once he has left office?

nilram

(2,886 posts)
4. True enough. I would rather that there were some assurance IN LAW rather than
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:02 PM
Jan 2014

by the whim of whoever is in his office.

MsPithy

(809 posts)
7. You so don't get it!
Sun Jan 19, 2014, 12:20 AM
Jan 2014

Whatever invasions of our privacy we accept because Obama is a good guy, will also be appropriate for a president Daryl Issa or Ted Cruz or Mary Chaney to do.

 

1000words

(7,051 posts)
5. Still waiting for him to placate the founding fathers
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:03 PM
Jan 2014

and that that little thing they threw together called the Constitution.

George II

(67,782 posts)
14. Sorry, you're correct. I didn't see the word used in the article, skipped right over the headline!
Sun Jan 19, 2014, 01:08 PM
Jan 2014

But, I think that's really an extreme characterization of what Obama said.

MsPithy

(809 posts)
9. Are we supposed to believe Merkel was talking to Al Qaeda?
Sun Jan 19, 2014, 12:50 AM
Jan 2014

It is corporations, specifically hedge fund bankers, who would be interested in German government policy. Especially, what Germany was planning to do about Greece.

Welcome to Fascism.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
10. The Germans know first-hand how dangerous the kind of spying we are doing not only on foreign
Sun Jan 19, 2014, 03:03 AM
Jan 2014

leaders but on ourselves is. Some spying may be needed but we have gone far, far, far too far, and while some of Obama's changes in the system sound good, they are far, far, far too cautious.

We need a complete overhaul of all the domestic and foreign spying programs not only of the NSA but of all the agencies that conduct spying.

the big shock for me was when MSNBC presented a video of Hayden vehemently denying that "probable cause" is the standard the Constitution sets for the kind of search and seizure that the NSA conducts on us all the time. Here is the clip.

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/video-podcast-media/video-michael-hayden-probable-cause-not-4th-amendment

A person that ignorant of the text of the 4th Amendment certainly should not be in charge of a program that is capable of violating the 4th Amendment. He was not well enough versed on the constitution for his job.

Just in case there is any question about the 4th Amendment, here it is.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fourth_amendment

In general, customs writs of assistance served as general search warrants that did not expire, allowing customs officials to search anywhere for smuggled goods without having to obtain a specific warrant. These writs became controversial when they were issued by courts in British America in the 1760s, especially the Province of Massachusetts Bay. Controversy over these general writs of assistance inspired the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which forbids general search warrants in the United States.

. . . .

General writs of assistance played an important role in the increasing tensions that led to the American Revolution and the creation of the United States of America. In 1760, Great Britain began to enforce some of the provisions of the Navigation Acts by granting customs officers these writs. In New England, smuggling had become common. However, officers could not search a person's property without giving a reason. Colonists protested that the writs violated their rights as British subjects. The colonists had several problems with these writs. They were permanent and even transferable: the holder of a writ could assign it to another. Any place could be searched at the whim of the holder, and searchers were not responsible for any damage they caused. This put anyone who had such a writ above the law.

. . . .

In response to the much-hated general writs, several of the colonies included a particularity requirement for search warrants in their constitutions when they established independent governments in 1776; the phrase "particularity requirement" is the legal term of art used in contemporary cases to refer to an express requirement that the target of a search warrant must be "particularly" described in detail.[20] Several years later, the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution also contained a particularity requirement that outlawed the use of writs of assistance (and all general search warrants) by the federal government.[21] Later, the Bill of Rights was incorporated against the states via the Fourteenth Amendment,[22] and writs of assistance were generally proscribed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writ_of_assistance

The British may be comfortable with the broad surveillance, but we Americans should not be. After all, we fought one revolution to narrow police investigations to warrants based on probable cause.

We should not allow our precious U.S. Constitution that was so hard-won in that revolution to be denied, reworded or simply ignored even by our must honored and trusted elected officials and military leaders. They should be better informed.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
11. Obama DOESN'T Get It
Sun Jan 19, 2014, 11:21 AM
Jan 2014

What more can be said?

If he's acting under coercion by the Military/Industrial/TBTF Bankster/Spymasters, then he should say so.

But I don't think he's doing it against his will. We have seen how he acts when he's forced...he screws it up, big time, and a big, insincere apology follows the Ooops!

Kinda like this one....

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