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brooklynite

(94,302 posts)
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 03:04 PM Jan 2014

Update: Fort Worth hospital has discontinued life support for pregnant, brain-dead woman

Source: Dalla Morning News

Update at 12:54 p.m.: Attorneys for the Muñoz family said in a statement that Marlise Muñoz was withdrawn from life support about 11:30 a.m. Sunday.

“The Munoz and Machado families will now proceed with the somber task of laying Marlise Munoz’s body to rest, and grieving over the great loss that has been suffered,” the statement says. “May Marlise Munoz finally rest in peace, and her family find the strength to complete what has been an unbearably long and arduous journey.”

The statement was released by attorneys Heather L. King and Jessica H. Janicek.

Read more: http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/01/jps-hospital-says-they-will-follow-court-order-in-munoz-case-discontinue-life-support.html/

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Update: Fort Worth hospital has discontinued life support for pregnant, brain-dead woman (Original Post) brooklynite Jan 2014 OP
RIP, Marlise Munoz. n/t pnwmom Jan 2014 #1
Finally she has been allowed the dignity of death cosmicone Jan 2014 #2
Now who gets the bill from the hospital? The Muņoz family? LiberalArkie Jan 2014 #3
I would say either the hospital bills the State of Texas avebury Jan 2014 #6
Let's hope so. LiberalArkie Jan 2014 #10
I don't think that's the way it works seattledo Jan 2014 #19
If the hospital is smart they will eat the bill. avebury Jan 2014 #20
I lost my best friend of thirty years to the same liberalhistorian Jan 2014 #56
The difference in this case is that they weren't performing standard medical care. pnwmom Jan 2014 #32
It's too bad Texas taxpayers would be on the hook Jack Rabbit Jan 2014 #37
Perhaps if the taxpayers end up having to pick up avebury Jan 2014 #38
Exactly--anything past the point of when he wanted to withdraw life support, the husband TwilightGardener Jan 2014 #14
Especially since it wasn't "life" support but rather corpse preservation. kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #18
Exactly. They were trying to use a corpse as an incubator pnwmom Jan 2014 #30
Call it an experiment on human subject(s) without informed consent. BadgerKid Jan 2014 #35
I've been wondering all along if this went to the hospital's Institutional Review Board. pnwmom Jan 2014 #42
Institutional Review Board was having a Frankenstein mpment warrant46 Jan 2014 #47
It was also abuse of a corpse. kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #50
Yes so sick -RIP now and family nightmare can start to end but post stress may never go away lunasun Jan 2014 #54
Once she was dead, she was no longer anyone's wife. So Mr. Munoz wouldn't be liable pnwmom Jan 2014 #33
The family receives the bill gerogie2 Jan 2014 #24
Legislators that cow tow to extreme fringe of religious fundamentalists warrant46 Jan 2014 #27
Assuming they have insurance the insurance will argue it with their lawyers. Otherwise, I suspect lostincalifornia Jan 2014 #28
I'm sure the insurance companies would deny payment for 2 months of procedures on a corpse. pnwmom Jan 2014 #45
They weren't medical bills. And once the woman was dead, she was no longer the wife of the man. pnwmom Jan 2014 #31
You don't know what you are talking about gerogie2 Jan 2014 #36
"Even if she was dead"? She WAS dead, that is a fact the hospital acknowledges. Thus her estate pnwmom Jan 2014 #39
Actually I think it was the Texas legislature, and the hospital was following that lostincalifornia Jan 2014 #43
The legislators who wrote it said they never intended it to apply to a dead person pnwmom Jan 2014 #44
You have no idea what you're talking about gerogie2 Jan 2014 #49
I know more than you do, obviously. I know that the woman was dead, and that the procedures done pnwmom Jan 2014 #52
For a lot of reasons I don't think they will, and if they do it will go to the courts. As you said, lostincalifornia Jan 2014 #40
Yes. They were trying to argue that she had been brain dead for two months, but they hadn't pnwmom Jan 2014 #41
Peace to the family. uppityperson Jan 2014 #4
May she and her unborn child finally find peace. nolabear Jan 2014 #5
Rest in peace Marlise. warrior1 Jan 2014 #7
Rest in peace Marlise~ democrank Jan 2014 #8
Paid poor pregnant woman $10,000 for "accidentally" killing babies during birth. Mary in S. Carolina Jan 2014 #9
RIP SoapBox Jan 2014 #11
"Hospital Agrees To Obey Court Ruling and Removes Mechanical Support from Munoz Corpse" musette_sf Jan 2014 #12
Finally. An accurate headline. Thanks. nt SunSeeker Jan 2014 #15
+truth =no 'life' to support lunasun Jan 2014 #55
may she rest in peace. Condoloances to the family. Herself Jan 2014 #13
It wasn't "life support," it was corpse support. nt SunSeeker Jan 2014 #16
I'm so glad this is over for this family. blackspade Jan 2014 #17
+1,000,000 deurbano Jan 2014 #23
RIP LeftishBrit Jan 2014 #21
i do hope we do not see westboro or other clowns involve with the funeral dembotoz Jan 2014 #22
I know that completing a death is a "somber task," but rocktivity Jan 2014 #25
RIP! hrmjustin Jan 2014 #26
R.I.P. bravenak Jan 2014 #29
this will only further enrage the Texas Taliban stg81 Jan 2014 #34
It's about time davidpdx Jan 2014 #46
What a ghastly, inhumane, twisted agenda that the forced-birthers put this poor family through. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #48
It was a Dr Josef Mengele Moment warrant46 Jan 2014 #51
My deepest sympathies to this family and I am so grateful Todays_Illusion Jan 2014 #53
What a sad, sad story. leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #57
Tragic story all around. Beacool Jan 2014 #58
I wonder where our resident liberalhistorian Jan 2014 #59
So they're finally going to allow the husband and his child to move on. Nice hell they put him Jefferson23 Jan 2014 #60

avebury

(10,951 posts)
6. I would say either the hospital bills the State of Texas
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 03:24 PM
Jan 2014

(who passed the bill the hospital clung to) or the hospital would have to absorb the cost from the moment the hospital refused to listen to the family. When the hospital imposed its will on the situation I think they lost any right to bill the family for any additional costs.

 

seattledo

(295 posts)
19. I don't think that's the way it works
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 04:35 PM
Jan 2014

I was billed by a hospital in WA for a procedure performed against my will.

avebury

(10,951 posts)
20. If the hospital is smart they will eat the bill.
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 04:44 PM
Jan 2014

If the family has an autopsy and determines the actual condition of the fetus, they might have a good case for a civil suit against the hospital. I would have no problem voting for a huge settlement for the family. They need to weigh the impact a court case would have on the hospital.

Years ago I had a cousin who had extensive biopsies done to determine how far, if at all, his Hodgkins had spread. One of his arteries was accidentally nicked resulting in time spent in the Special Care Unit and concern that he might not make it. The hospital ate the entire bill when he had to go back into the hospital and his stay in the SCU.

You had better believe that if were this family and the hospital had the gall to bill me for all the additional medical costs, I would be consulting an attorney about suing the hospital.

liberalhistorian

(20,814 posts)
56. I lost my best friend of thirty years to the same
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 01:01 PM
Jan 2014

thing that happened to your cousin; a resident was doing a bone biopsy and nicked an artery. However, both she and her attending doc ignored what she'd done for nearly an entire day, despite my friend's protests that something was wrong (she'd previously fought cancer and won, so she knew what was likely happening). By that time, the internal bleeding of "dirty" arterial blood had gone on long enough to do extensive, irreparable damage to many critical organs. She was in the hospital for six months straight, suffering terribly, was in a rehab facility for a few more months, then seemed to be a bit on the mend. However, she relapsed, spent more months in the hospital, and finally succumbed nearly ten months later. Anger doesn't even begin to describe it. If that fucking idiot resident couldn't even do a basic test right without killing a patient, then she had no business being anywhere around patients or even being a doc in the first place. Her ignoring what she'd done, and her attending doc going along with it, was even more infuriating.

Her family filed a medical malpractice suit, of course, as they definitely should have done, and the hospital and doc's attorneys fought it tooth and nail, despite their OWN experts employed by the hospital saying that the hospital and the docs were at fault, slammed and trashed my friend in responsive pleadings filed with the court saying SHE was at fault (grrrrr!), etc., etc. The suit was filed shortly before she died, and the attorneys even fought allowing her family to be substituted as plaintiffs after her death, the fuckers.

Well, you can just imagine what consecutive months of hospitalization cost, especially at a fancy-pants hospital like that one. Shortly before her death, she and her family started getting hounded for payment; she'd told their insurance company she was disputing any and all bills the hospital and docs submitted so they were putting a hold on any payments until it was resolved. They continued getting hounded even after her death, and they told the hospital and docs to go fuck themselves, THEY were the cause of the hospitalizations and her suffering, they weren't getting a goddamned dime.

The hospital finally backed down in the lawsuit, being told by their own experts that it was futile, they were, indeed, at fault, and the records clearly showed that. The suit was settled and the hospital wanted the family to apply part of it to the bill. The family again told them to go to hell, they weren't getting a dime for killing my friend, and the court backed them up. It's been years and it's still saddening and infuriating.

I am very glad your cousin survived and I know full well how much he suffered, having seen it firsthand. Eric Munoz and his wife's family needs to tell this hospital to go to hell, fuck their bills, they aren't getting a fucking dime, it's all on THEM. They should not have to use up their insurance cap or file bankruptcy or any of the other fucking bullshit the medical establishment forces on people when they get sick or injured.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
32. The difference in this case is that they weren't performing standard medical care.
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:52 PM
Jan 2014

They were performing experimental procedures on a corpse, against the express wishes of the family. There is no standard medical protocol for keeping dead bodies going.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
37. It's too bad Texas taxpayers would be on the hook
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:02 PM
Jan 2014

It burden should be given to Governor Perry and GOP legislators. The Munoz family didn't want this, the hospital didn't want this, but the state government saber rattling right wing sentiment. Perhaps it's time for right wing morons to take personal responsibility for their behavior.

avebury

(10,951 posts)
38. Perhaps if the taxpayers end up having to pick up
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:10 PM
Jan 2014

the tab for the idiocy of the people they vote into office, they will begin to rethink their support on election day. You cannot lay the blame solely on Perry and the GOP legislators, they did not get into office by themselves. The voters have to assume some degree of blame for what is going on.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
14. Exactly--anything past the point of when he wanted to withdraw life support, the husband
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 04:03 PM
Jan 2014

should not have to pay.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
30. Exactly. They were trying to use a corpse as an incubator
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:46 PM
Jan 2014

in a science experiment, since there is no protocol for doing this -- no standard medical procedure.

Horrifying.

BadgerKid

(4,549 posts)
35. Call it an experiment on human subject(s) without informed consent.
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 06:18 PM
Jan 2014

That goes against every medical protocol besides being, IMO, unethical and immoral.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
42. I've been wondering all along if this went to the hospital's Institutional Review Board.
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:16 PM
Jan 2014

Or if they even had one. It's hard to believe a board would have approved this, but this is Texas.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
33. Once she was dead, she was no longer anyone's wife. So Mr. Munoz wouldn't be liable
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:56 PM
Jan 2014

for the care of her corpse, except for burial costs.

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
24. The family receives the bill
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:00 PM
Jan 2014

The family is totally liable for all medical bills. If she has Medicaid then the State of Texas may pay the bill, but the State of Texas may say it was an abortion and not pay. Since this bill is in the hundred of thousands of dollars most likely the family will file for bankruptcy protection. If the woman had health insurance the health insurance will pick 70-80% of the tab. Thank fully because of ObamaCare there was no ceiling on the woman's health care insurance payouts, so the debt won't be bad as it could have. Still 20-30% of a hospital bill in the hundred of thousands of dollars is still too much and bankruptcy will liquidate the amount due.

Thirty years ago I was married and my wife had a problem pregnancy that required an abortion at six months. Germany had laws against late term abortion and I was in the US Army and the Hyde Act prevented the Army from paying for or providing an abortion. I had to obtain legal counsel then go to court in Germany. Then once the court approved I had to find a doctor willing to do the procedure. I had to Pay $10k for the procedure which wiped out all of my $8k savings and with help from my family I borrowed $2k to pay the rest. My German lawyer only charged the minimum and I paid him off after two years.

Both of these situations were caused by legislators that cow tow to extreme fringe of religious fundamentalists that results in financially devastating families. The choice of abortion should be left up to the family.

warrant46

(2,205 posts)
27. Legislators that cow tow to extreme fringe of religious fundamentalists
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:14 PM
Jan 2014

Like the Catlick church that has its Bishops campaign for the most outrageous Knuckle dragging Tea Baggers and encourages the sheep to give this same scum money--- thats $$$$ kiddies

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
28. Assuming they have insurance the insurance will argue it with their lawyers. Otherwise, I suspect
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:15 PM
Jan 2014

The family will utilize a good attorney to argue the liability of the bill if they are billed

This is not a sure thing that the family will be liable

Not all situations are the same, in fact I would not be surprised if the hospital absorbs the costs before it gets to legal recourse, unless insurance is involved, then the insurance company will have their lawyers go at it

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
31. They weren't medical bills. And once the woman was dead, she was no longer the wife of the man.
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:50 PM
Jan 2014

The procedures they carried out on the corpse did not constitute the practice of medicine, so the bills aren't medical bills.

Since she was no longer his wife and was in fact a corpse, I don't see how the hospital can hold the man responsible for the extended experiment they performed on the corpse -- without his consent.

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
36. You don't know what you are talking about
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 06:36 PM
Jan 2014

Even if she was dead the estate is still responsible for the bills incurred by the estate.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
39. "Even if she was dead"? She WAS dead, that is a fact the hospital acknowledges. Thus her estate
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:11 PM
Jan 2014

did not incur this bill.

Once she died, the executor of her estate was responsible only for paying for her costs WHILE she was alive (including the costs of the attempted resuscitation), for the maintenance of any property she owned, and the costs of her burial -- not for the costs of an extended science experiment undertaken by the hospital against the explicit wishes of the executor.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
44. The legislators who wrote it said they never intended it to apply to a dead person
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:26 PM
Jan 2014

and that the hospital wasn't following the law -- it was misinterpreting it. The judge agreed that the law didn't apply to a corpse.

The hospital clearly made a mistake. Even if it was a well-intentioned mistake, that doesn't give the hospital the right to foist the costs of its mistake onto the woman's estate.

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
49. You have no idea what you're talking about
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 09:44 PM
Jan 2014

Her estate is responsible for the medical bills encored whether she was dead or alive.
If the dead woman owns land then her estate is responsible for all taxes and utilities due before and after her death until the land is transferred and/or sold to another party. When you die that doesn't erase your bills. Your estate is responsible for the debts incurred. Since she was married then her husband would also be liable for her bills, most likely the wife & husband had the same health insurance coverage.

In a case like this bankruptcy is the most common option for the family facing such huge medical care bills.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
52. I know more than you do, obviously. I know that the woman was dead, and that the procedures done
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 10:33 PM
Jan 2014

to the corpse -- against the wishes of her executor -- did NOT constitute medical care. They were an assault on her body and they were a medical experiment without the family's consent.

Her estate is only responsible for the the cost of care involved in the attempt to save her life -- not for the costs of unlawfully hooking her corpse up to machines for months. And it WAS unlawful -- the judge agreed that the hospital erred in its interpretation of the law.

Erick Munoz, yes, is responsible for maintaining any property she owned. I already said that in another post. But once she died he was no longer her legal husband, and thus he wasn't responsible for any further medical costs. He was a widower; and legally, he was the owner of her corpse. He was responsible for getting her buried, but not for the costs of unlawfully -- and against his will -- maintaining the dead body in the hospital.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
40. For a lot of reasons I don't think they will, and if they do it will go to the courts. As you said,
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:13 PM
Jan 2014

the doctors ruled her brain dead, even before this sad state of affairs

They took control away from the family

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
41. Yes. They were trying to argue that she had been brain dead for two months, but they hadn't
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:14 PM
Jan 2014

literally "pronounced" her brain dead, and that that made a legal difference. The judge rejected that argument.

 

Mary in S. Carolina

(1,364 posts)
9. Paid poor pregnant woman $10,000 for "accidentally" killing babies during birth.
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 03:32 PM
Jan 2014

Please look into John Peter Smith's hospital malpractice lawsuits (in the early 1990's). I think you will notice that they paid very small sums of money to many poor mothers after their babies died during child birth due to "lacerations to the head", etc.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
55. +truth =no 'life' to support
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 11:01 AM
Jan 2014

A TX RW politician's wife and unborn child would have passed and been long buried regardless of law

Sicko what they did to Munoz family

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
17. I'm so glad this is over for this family.
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 04:22 PM
Jan 2014

This was a despicable display of callousness by a bunch cowardly religious idiots with no empathy or moral compass.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
58. Tragic story all around.
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 01:48 PM
Jan 2014

May Marlise and her unborn baby rest in peace. My condolences to her husband and family.

liberalhistorian

(20,814 posts)
59. I wonder where our resident
Mon Jan 27, 2014, 04:11 PM
Jan 2014

"bu..bu..bu...bu..but the BAAAAAABBBBYYYY!!!" poster is on this and the other thread. She was all over previous threads about it over the past several weeks pushing her very obvious agenda and yet she's somehow mysteriously silent on this and the other thread now that it's officially over. Hmmmmm.......................

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