Antonin Scalia: 'You Are Kidding Yourself If You Think' Internment Ruling Couldn't Happen Again

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

HONOLULU (AP) — U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia told law students at the University of Hawaii on Monday that the nation's highest court was wrong to uphold the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II, but he wouldn't be surprised if the court issued a similar ruling during a future conflict.

Scalia was responding to a question about the court's 1944 decision in Korematsu v. United States, which upheld the convictions of Gordon Hirabayashi and Fred Korematsu for violating an order to report to an internment camp.

"Well of course Korematsu was wrong. And I think we have repudiated in a later case. But you are kidding yourself if you think the same thing will not happen again," Scalia told students and faculty during a lunchtime Q-and-A session.

Scalia cited a Latin expression meaning, "In times of war, the laws fall silent."

"That's what was going on — the panic about the war and the invasion of the Pacific and whatnot. That's what happens. It was wrong, but I would not be surprised to see it happen again, in time of war. It's no justification, but it is the reality," he said.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/03/scalia-internment-ruling_n_4720265.html

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Seems surprisingly honest.

Not that the message is good...

[elleng]

4. Right

[SharonAnn]

21. I think he's being honest. We saw what happened with the Patriot Act after 9-11.

It could happen again, to our sorrow and shame.

Fear drives a lot of ugly behavior.

[elleng]

22. Yes it does,

and the repugs specialize in fostering fear.

[BetterThanNoSN]

38. ack

Scalia cited a Latin expression meaning, "In times of war, the laws fall silent."

Just like your court during our torture escapades, you douche

[Quantess]

54. My thoughts exactly.

There seems to be no statement that comes out of this horrible man that is not 100% assholish.

[grahamhgreen]

50. But not impartial.

[FiveGoodMen]

51. Not impartial. Not dedicated to real freedom and justice.

I'm just surprised to hear him say it that way.

[The Stranger]

53. In his position, "honesty" is just disguised collaboration.

He is a sitting Justice on the U.S. Supreme Court.

[FiveGoodMen]

59. No argument

I have nothing good to say about Scalia.

I just didn't expect him to come right out with it.

[Walk away]

2. If only it could just happen to him.

What a jackass. Here a US Supreme Court judge says "woops when a war starts, law and your civil rights go right out the window! Too bad and don't be surprised!"

This creep thinks of himself as brilliant.

[truth2power]

34. Those would be my thoughts, exactly. n/t

[Hosnon]

35. It's a pretty common thought.

"The Constitution is not a suicide pact."

I think most people would agree that our constitutional rights would be useless without a country to protect them. It's an unfortunate reality but reality nonetheless.

[1000words]

3. Sounds like a threat

[merrily]

8. Wake up call. The threat already exists.

Much as my stomach turns when I see a photo of that smug so and so, I can't contradict this bit.

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. Or, maybe ...

A wink, wink to the extreme right ... as in "FEMA CAMPS are coming!"

[BlueCaliDem]

56. I'd be very happy with

"Teabagger" Camps. They're the real enemy of the State. They're the enablers of the moneyed Plutocracy that's fighting very hard to usurp the U.S. Constitution and American democracy.

[Journeyman]

5. An accurate reading of our unfortunate history during wartimes & their aftermaths . . .

[merrily]

9. And now we get to have never ending war against "terror."

[a2liberal]

6. He would know...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia#Detainee_cases

Note especially the war-charged rhetoric that is exactly what he's now warning about

[merrily]

11. Excellent point. Thanks.

ETA: I wonder if Scalia would have dissented in Hamdi if a Democratic President had imprisoned him in Gitmo and Scalia's son was not "on that battlefield."

[ronnie624]

24. Such an unprincipled fool.

He thinks he's wise.

[sakabatou]

7. Bastard

[AtheistCrusader]

10. He may be a bastard, but what he just said is a true observation of the nature of this country.

Warts and all.

[merrily]

12. Including him, one of our most repulsive "warts."

[AtheistCrusader]

14. Exactly. He'd rule in favor of it in a hearbeat.

But so would most of the court...

[merrily]

15. Did you see Reply 6?

[AtheistCrusader]

16. I see it now.

He's also talked about torture. In the context of a FUCKING TV SHOW *gag*



"Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles. ... He saved hundreds of thousands of lives," Judge Scalia said. Then, recalling...where the agent's rough interrogation tactics saved California from a terrorist nuke, the Supreme Court judge etched a line in the sand.
"Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?" Judge Scalia challenged his fellow judges. "Say that criminal law is against him? 'You have the right to a jury trial?' Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer? I don't think so.

"So the question is really whether we believe in these absolutes. And ought we believe in these absolutes."

He really is a vile creature.

[merrily]

18. What is it with Republicans conflating TV shows and reality?

Scalia is brilliant (hate to admit), but there he sounds like Dan Quayle railing against Murphy Brown's lifestyle.

[okaawhatever]

13. Ya know, I was just reading that Obama changed something about that in 2011. It was while I was

reading up on executive orders. Maybe someone knows before I go spend a bunch of time researching it.

Sadly, what the right wing will hear is "FEMA Camps".

[truedelphi]

19. I will look and see what I can find. I had heard that Janet Napolitano

Had made flying a lot easier, with less hassles from Homeland "Security."

My spouse recently travelled and he thought things were quite a bit easier and more pleasant than from two years ago.

[davidpdx]

32. Actually when I read that quote it's what I was thinking he meant

It's kind of like using dog whistle words with racism. He was looking for a reason to set off the right-wing loons.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[SoapBox]

17. I am 100% sure that he would be right there

if he felt "panic" about some of those Moose-lamb types...or some Mexy-cans...or anyone that doesn't look like him, think like him, etc.

OH, I know a group that he would feel "panic" about...them Homer-sexuals!

[olddad56]

20. next time they intern people, it will probably be based on your annual income.

[stillwaiting]

36. That's called prison, and that time is now.

The wealthy rarely get interned.

The poor get interned often.

Gotta have labor for our prison camps don't ya know…

[olddad56]

40. not to mention job security for all of the guards and staff.

[stillwaiting]

42. Yes, it is an insidious system.

Our drug laws, and how they are implemented, have resulted in thousands upon thousands upon thousands of individuals losing their freedom.

Unfortunately, these laws are also racist in that they lock up African-Americans so very much more than they ever do people from other races.

I hope our insane drug policies end soon, and I hope that future history books accurately reflect and report exactly what happened to the lives of millions of Americans because of them. Our drug laws have destroyed lives much more than the drugs themselves ever could.

Portugal has done the sane thing regarding drug policy. Rehabilitate.

For conservatives to reflect on --------> It's so much cheaper, and someone should never lose their freedom because they want to experience an altered state of consciousness.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. As long as we have smug, self important white males in charge convinced of their superiority.

[DeSwiss]

25. This is exactly why his ass needs to go.

- Forthwith.

K&R

[blkmusclmachine]

26. I wonder if Saclia has been given a date when it will happen? He seems so sure of himself.

[madrchsod]

27. i have no doubt this will happen again...

if there is another attack on our "homeland" people will demand it.

yes there is no justification and yes it is reality. we only have to look at our country after 9-11 to see the future will bring.

[SamKnause]

28. I agree, it can happen again.

Scalia will lead the charge to implement internment if the occasion arises.

He is a despicable person.

[bluestateguy]

29. For about 6 mos. to a year after 9/11 I worried about it happening again to Muslims

And I do think the political climate of 2001-02 would have allowed it under some bullshit "national security" claim.

[countmyvote4real]

30. Hello, 9/11 freak out, GITMO & patriot act?

This has probably already been referenced in this thread, but this is my immediate response to the OP. We're already there and have been since 9/11. Could it escalate? NSA says, "You betcha."

[Lars39]

46. Numbers vary from hundreds to 1200 Muslims detained

after 9/11.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/23/nyregion/23detain.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[bemildred]

31. He is covering his butt.

"Everybody does it."

[unhappycamper]

33. Tony knows fascism.

k&r

[melm00se]

37. Some data re: Korematsu

Court Make up (appointing President in parentheses): Stone (Coolidge and Chief Justice by FDR), Roberts (Hoover), Black (FDR), Reed (FDR), Frankfurter (FDR), Douglas (FDR), Murphy (FDR), Jackson (FDR) and Rutledge (FDR)

Supreme Court Decision: 6-3

Text of Decision: here

Decision:Stone, Black, Reed, Frankfurter, Douglas, Rutledge

Dissent: Roberts, Murphy and Jackson

Similar Cases: Yasui v United State, Hirabayahsi v United States, and ex parte Endo

Vacated: Korematsu was overturned in 1983.

it is interesting to note that the majority of the court were Democrats and either directly appointed to the seats on the bench by FDR (Black, Reed, Frankfurter, Douglas,and Rutledge) or appointed as Chief Justice (Stone) by FDR.

[Lurks Often]

47. Notice how everybody is ignoring your troublesome facts?

It was FDR that signed the order authorizing military commanders to decide if the Japanese-American citizens were a threat and if deemed a threat could be forcibly re-located. No trials, no probably cause, no appeal. Most, if not all, the Japanese-American citizens lost all their possessions except what they could carry with them in suitcases.

And as you pointed out, it was a Supreme Court, composed mostly of FDR appointees, that upheld his order.

[melm00se]

49. yup, the other thing that gets overlooked

Last edited Tue Feb 4, 2014, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)

in this discussion is the Executive Order 9066 is that while the Japanese were impacted the most by this executive order (~110,000 were interned), Germans, Italians and some Jewish Refugees (approximately 15,000 total) were also impacted by this order.

I don't have any research material with me but the signing of this order was not 100% supported by FDR Administration. There was opposition within the FDR Administration.

[unblock]

57. interned, not interred (!)

[melm00se]

58. oops...fixed

[onehandle]

39. Sounds like a good reason to keep right-wing pigs off of the court.

Too bad Ralph Nader didn't think of that when he helped extend this right-wing court by 30+ years.

[warrant46]

41. Over 2 million people voted for Ralph

I guess they were short sighted too

[former9thward]

45. Some posters blame Nader for every evil on the planet earth.

Even things that occurred before he was alive.

[warrant46]

63. LOL-- NT

[Paladin]

43. Wishful thinking on Scalia's part. (nt)

[James48]

44. Scalia should ask the full Court to repudiate the faulty cases.

The Supreme Court has NEVER said it was sorry for accepting the lies and false testimony presented, and
it should do so now.

Read about the case for repudiation here:

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/files/case-for-repudiation-1.pdf

[Douglas Carpenter]

48. Muslim Americans would be the most likely victims of an internment policy as a reactions to a major

terrorist attack inside the U.S. - especially if WMD's were involved.

[SwankyXomb]

52. It not only can, it will

and Scaley's already written the majority decision.

[KamaAina]

60. Is that a threat or a promise?

[Coyotl]

61. It aleady has, they put an electronic fence around the whole country.

The Patriot Act!

[heaven05]

62. YEAH!

Okay the RW is at war with our form of government led by cruztoy. Intern cruztoy, this 'supreme' and all the texans that voted for him. just joking!!!!! maybe.

[sadoldgirl]

64. The mentioning of war

leaves me to ask: What would happen in case of a velvet revolution in this country?

[Faygo Kid]

65. I got to meet and know Fred Korematsu

On a side note, I got to spend a couple of days including dinner with Fred Korematsu and his wife in 1996. Delightful couple, he met her at the end of the war in Detroit after he was released. He went on to a very successful career as an engineer. But make no mistake. His anger at the internment was still palpable, more a sense of injustice now than personal affront. Yet he remembered the little things, the small slights, the sounds and the smells of the camp. An unforgettable experience.

http://korematsuinstitute.org/institute/aboutfred/