Venezuelan opposition leader to turn himself in

[Zorro]

Source: AP

Opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez, the target of a Venezuelan police manhunt for allegedly inciting violence at anti-government protests that ended with three deaths, said Sunday that he will surrender himself after staging one more demonstration.

In a video shot in an undisclosed location, Lopez said he didn't fear arrest but accused authorities of trying to violate his constitutional right to protest against President Nicolas Maduro's socialist government.

He urged supporters to gather Tuesday in white shirts and march peacefully with him to the Interior Ministry, where he said he would deliver a petition demanding a full investigation of the government's role in the deaths. He said he would turn himself over to authorities Tuesday.

"I haven't committed any crime," said Lopez, who hasn't been seen since a news conference Wednesday night after the bloodshed. "If there is a decision to legally throw me in jail I'll submit myself to this persecution."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/venezuelan-opposition-leader-turn-himself-000020767.html

[another_liberal]

1. "If there is a decision to legally throw me in jail . . . "

So he gets to decide if the courts are acting legally in his own case? What happens if he decides they aren't?

Sounds to me like he might want to get some more people killed. He will, of course, also have his supporters to hide among and make his escape if it comes to that.

[Zorro]

2. I suspect

there are agents provocateurs that have infiltrated the protest crowds.

[geek tragedy]

3. Yes, yes no violence from pro-regime groups, and no civil liberties violations or any kind

of problems associated with ordering opposition leaders arrested.

Not a single problem in Venezuela is due to the government's actions. Every problem, great or small, is a US corporatist plot.

[another_liberal]

6. That is pretty much the situation, no doubt.

The American government and American interests have destabilized many countries and overthrown many governments all around the World. Check out a book or two on the subject, it's important to know the truth.

[geek tragedy]

9. So, Venezuela has the most perfect, most functional, most freedom-respecting,

most economically brilliant government ever?

Things one learns through blind faith.

[sked14]

11. Even with the clear evidence of widespread corruption within the VN govt,

and an economy that's imploding due to that widespread VN govt corruption, there are fanatical supporters here who insist that it's all a US/RW plot to bring down the VN govt. w/o a shred of evidence.

[another_liberal]

19. I did not suggest any of those things . . .

However, the current government of Venezuela was democratically elected, and, if we really do believe in democracy, our country should not be trying to overthrow it in the interests of a wealthy domestic elite (not to mention that of American oil barons, like the Koch brothers).

[sked14]

20. I'm guessing that you can link to proof that the US is trying to

overthrow the Maduro govt if asked?
Or, is the proof Maduro says so?

[another_liberal]

26. Past history is a fairly good indicator of present guilt.

As to Maduro's accusations: Our government's past history of meddling in the affairs of numerous Latin American governments is strong evidence of his accuracy. That is especially true when coupled with the fact we already tried, at least as recently as 2004, to overthrow the former Venezuelan President.

[sked14]

28. I asked, can you provide any proof that the Obama Admin.

is trying to overthrow the VN. govt? Other than the word of Maduro?
I think I'll believe Obama over Maduro any day.

[EX500rider]

32. "Past history is a fairly good indicator of present guilt."

That so? True for say...Germany too? Japan? Or just the USA? And how far back can we go?

[geek tragedy]

21. the only evidence that the US is attempting to overthrow Venezuela's government

is the claim of Maduro.
political upheaval in Venezuela is bad for the USG's strategic planning and for corporate America. Venezuela is going to sell its oil under Maduro just as much as it would sell it under anyone else.

[EX500rider]

31. Well gosh if we did it in '54 or '73 then we must be..

....doing it now? Obama right up there with those Cold Warrior Presidents? Sending out exploding cigars is he? Who knew..

[another_liberal]

39. We tried to overthrow Chavez . . .

And we did so as recently as 2004.

I want to believe President Obama has nothing to do with this meddling in the internal affairs of another sovereign nation (a fellow Western Hemisphere democracy at that) but to think that no American interests of any kind are involved is really kind of naive.

[EX500rider]

40. A regular bay of pigs it was...

.....US trained ex-pats of Venz storming the beaches with a CIA Air Force over head.....no, wait, none of that happened..

[hack89]

8. He must think he is Julian Assange or something

At least he is not planing to run away.

[wordpix]

54. "Sounds to me like he might want to get some more people killed." Where do you get that from?

Your comments are based on nothing. Where are your links?

"So he gets to decide if the courts are acting legally in his own case?" What do you base THAT on?

No, Maduro makes the decision that a court is acting legally and not the opposition, as well as the decision as to who is "criminal" and who is not. Your comments don't even make sense. Lopez has every right to oppose the current regime, just like we have the right in the US to oppose Bush or Obama for that matter if we choose. Yet the opposition in Venez. is arrested, shot at, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldo_L%C3%B3pez_Mendoza

snip: López filed a complaint with the Mercosur Human Rights Committee;[34] the Mercosur parliament session was disrupted and the Committee was unable to reach conclusions because they couldn't meet with authorities in Venezuela.[35] José Miguel Vivanco of Human Rights Watch "described political discrimination as a defining feature of Mr. Chávez's presidency", singling out López and the "measure that disqualifies candidates from running for public office because of legal claims against them".[36]

[freshwest]

4. Hopefully a trial will get to the truth of the whole thing. Hope they get some peace down there. n/t

[freshwest]

5. FWIW, the Wikipedia entry on Leopoldo Lopez is interesting:

Leopoldo López Mendoza



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldo_L%C3%B3pez_Mendoza

Appears educated, well liked and not without experience in government or short of ideas. I guess a case could be made that he is the victim here.

[another_liberal]

7. And he has a lovely smile.

He has to be the good guy if he's that cute, right?

[geek tragedy]

10. Well, no, St. Maduro called him evil therefore we must hate him. Just gottta nod along

and whatever we do we must not question the authorities in Venezuela. To defy Maduro is to defy God.

[another_liberal]

13. When you come back down to Earth . . .

Be sure to tell us what the weather was like up there in the Stratosphere.

[sked14]

14. And when you come outta FantasyLand,

tell us just how wonderful a paradise VN is.

[another_liberal]

16. You can tell me how wonderful . . .

How about this: You can tell me how much more wonderful a place it will be after an elitist coup succeeds in removing the democratically elected government and replacing it with a crowd of oil corporation lackeys and CIA stooges? OK?

[sked14]

18. Always the CIA/US/RW/Oil Corps. label to justify a corrupt

govt that's flushing the economy down the toilet my their wholesale mismanagement and outright theft and graft.

[another_liberal]

22. If the government is doing such a bad job . . .

It can be voted out in the next election. That is how democracy works. Or don't you believe in democracy?

[sked14]

24. Of course I believe in democracy,

never did I say I support a coup, I'm just pointing out that when anyone challenges the corrupt Maduro govt, people like you rush to their defense with the usual US/CIA/RW allegations of trying to overthrow the govt without one shred of evidence other than saint Maduro saying so.

[Bacchus4.0]

12. its his fault that the government shot students though, thats what the gov is saying n/t

s

[another_liberal]

15. He did encourage those students to confront the police . . .

And he did then flee to safety before they started throwing fire bombs and shooting at the police. True, they were eventually fired on in return, leaving three dead. All in all, it seems fairly reasonable that the authorities would want to question him.

[Bacchus4.0]

17. he did? Anyway, he didn't make the police shoot them. Its not Lopez's fault

that the chavista government is an abject failure.

[another_liberal]

23. Venezuela is not our country.

Just because our government does not like the way their government operates, that does not give us a right to try and overthrow it. Check out the charters of both the UN and the OAS (both of which our nation signed as charter members).

Anyway, if Maduro is doing such a terrible job, he will be replaced by popular vote at the next election.

[sked14]

25. Do you have any proof that the Obama Admin is trying to overthrow the

corrupt Maduro govt, other than Maduro saying so?

[another_liberal]

27. Profit motive, for one.

Our past history of fomenting unrest and economic distress as a means of removing uncooperative Latin American governments, for another.

[sked14]

29. IOW, you have no proof

of the Obama Admin being involved in the turmoil in Venezuela?
The US doesn't need to get involved fomenting unrest in VN, the corrupt Maduro govt is doing a fine job all by itself.

[another_liberal]

35. The US has never needed to support coups anywhere, but we clearly have repeatedly done so.

Or are you going to suggest we have not?

I am arguing against our Intelligence services and American business interests overthrowing a democratically elected government. You, it would appear, would actually like to see that happen. You are the one who needs to explain yourself.

[sked14]

41. I'll ask one more time

do you have any links proving that the Obama Admin is trying to foment a coup?

[another_liberal]

42. Ask as often as you want . . .

I have never named President Obama as a likely participant. As recent revelations such as the NSA scandal have shown, he is not always personally in the know concerning what secret agencies of our government are up to. Nor is he likely to be consulted by the heads of powerful corporations who have vested interests in seeing a change in the Venezuelan government. The fact remains that American governmental agencies and American economic interests have frequently organized and encouraged coups against Latin American governments. To suggest otherwise is kind of naive.

As to the current Venezuelan unrest in particular: Our interventionists are rarely careless enough to leave damning evidence of their involvement in plain view. Most American interventions to oust uncooperative governments are only documented long after the dust has settled and the coups have achieved their ends.

[sked14]

43. I'll take that as a no, you don't have any proof at all other than Maduro saying so.

But just keep on telling the faithful that it's all a US/CIA/RW/Oil Corp. plot to overthrow the Maduro regime and not the wholesale corruption and theft by the Maduro regime.

Unless the Maduro regime gets it's shit together, they're going to be thrown out on their ear come the next election.

[another_liberal]

44. Did you even bother to read my reply?

Venezuela has a democratically elected government. To call for that government's removal by any means other than a democratic election result is to reject democracy itself.

Just why are you so concerned about economic conditions in Venezuela anyway? Isn't that a problem for them to decide how to solve for themselves?

You're not some kind of war hawk who wants to see us send in the Marines, so you can enjoy the the fireworks on television, are you? Please tell me you aren't.

[sked14]

45. I'm concerned because my wife has relatives in VN,

that's why I know so much about what's going on there, I spent alot of time in VN and Latin America so I'm in tune with the politics in the region.

Look at my avatar. You really think I'm some kind of war hawk after 2 tours in that, then, hell hole?

[another_liberal]

48. Well said.

Thank you sincerely.

[sked14]

49. Your welcome.

[EX500rider]

33. "Profit motive, for one."

Riggggght.......Obama called up the CIA and said "Dang boys, we need more profit outta Venz, have them overthrown" Kinda like that?

[another_liberal]

34. Why are you so hot to overthrow a democratically elected government?

I bet you supported the Army coup in Egypt too, right?

[EX500rider]

36. i don't recall supporting anything, maybe you can point that out to me..

Not believing Obama is trying to overthrow Venezuela means just that, sorry.

[another_liberal]

38. Thank you for that clarification . . .

Our Secretary of State could learn a lesson in neutrality from your position.

[joshcryer]

56. The US profits off of Venezuela already.

We refine a good chunk of their oil because, get this, the country with some of the finest most respected oil infrastructure on the planet allowed it to go to complete shit. So they export it to use for us to refine it and we send it back to them. Oh, and the US is the only country that can refine their nasty crude at the levels they need.

[Bacchus4.0]

30. yeah, so the people in that country are protesting against the inept and corrupt government

You have a problem with that?

[another_liberal]

37. "Serious consequences with international ramifications for arresting Leopoldo Lopez."

That is the warning we sent the government of Venezuela yesterday, in regard to a purely domestic matter, one involving the deaths of several of that country's citizens. Our action is a textbook definition of meddling in the internal affairs of another sovereign nation.

[joshcryer]

46. False, he called for peaceful protest.

It's not his fault chavistas employ violent tupamaros who commit murder with impunity.

[sked14]

47. And infiltrate agent provocateurs to make it seem as if

the opposition is the ones that started the violence.

[joshcryer]

50. I don't think it's fair to classify the students as 'opposition' anyway.

The opposition is no doubt using them, but they have their own reasons. The issue isn't black and white like so many want to make out.

[sked14]

51. I use opposition because that's what they classify themselves as.

My wife has numerous relatives still living in VN, we get daily updates on the turmoil from them and it's not pretty, it's a powder keg waiting for a spark to set it off.

[joshcryer]

52. Understood.

Was just speaking generally. At this point they are protesting for the sake of it. But the instability is driving it.

And contrary to the lies they are protesting from every walk of life. Some racist will claim that only lighter skinned Venezuelans are protesting but that is easily disproved.

[sked14]

53. This isn't just the "elite rightest" anymore,

as you said, this is from all walks of life, it has become obvious that the Chavistas have badly mismanaged the economy, there are chronic shortages of basic goods, the crime rate is the worse in Latin America, the electrical grid is outdated and failing, oil production is falling due to corruption and ineptness on the govts part.

Add all these together with the Maduro regime not even pretending to try to fix the corruption within itself and constantly blaming the US/CIA for all it's problems and you have the makings of the perfect storm of unrest.

It will surprise me if the Chavistas survive the next elections, most of my wife's relates voted for Chavez and then Maduro, but they are disgusted and are willing to vote for anyone but Maduro unless he gets his shit together and starts addressing the real problem, corruption within the govt. before the next election.

[joshcryer]

55. It never was, the students protested originally against a rape.

But those protesters got arrested. So more students protested around the country for the release of the original protesters.

The right wing like LL or MCM just latched on to it and encouraged more protest. It's likely the students aren't even listening to Lopez or Machado. Which make his calls for protest all the more amusing since, really, it was spontaneous.

And let's be completely clear here, these are students who have free primary and university education, in pretty good schools. These are not students who would suddenly call for privatization of everything. They just want the crime to stop, they want peace, stability. That's not too much to ask for. When chavistas use tupamaros to do their dirty work it sends a strong message to these students, ie, status quo stays, get over it, die in the streets in rivers of blood.

The sad part in many ways is that Maduro isn't really responsible so much who he succeeded. He had a bad hand dealt to him and he refused to implement the measures that would solve the problems the country faces.

[sked14]

57. +100.