Venezuela Opposition Leader Surrenders to Police

[Zorra]

Source: ABC ~ AP

Opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez re-emerged from days of hiding to address an anti-government demonstration and then surrendered to authorities Tuesday in a move that he said will open the world's eyes to the increasingly authoritarian bent of Venezuela's socialist government.

Speaking to some 5,000 supporters with a megaphone, Lopez said that he doesn't fear going to jail to defend his beliefs and constitutional right to peacefully protest against President Nicolas Maduro.

"We've got nothing to hide," Lopez told by a sea of supporters dressed in white.
---snip
The opposition rally and a competing pro-government one downtown came one day after Maduro's government gave three U.S. Embassy officials 48 hours to leave the country, claiming they were supporting opposition plots to topple his socialist administration. The U.S. denied that.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/venezuela-leader-expels-us-officials-amid-protests-22555592

[geek tragedy]

1. I wonder if they'll bother giving him a show trial or whether he'll just sit in jail

until the regime decides that 'public safety' would allow his release.

Maduro is no Chavez. More like Mugabe.

[Bacchus4.0]

3. well, they are charging him with the killings committed by the government security forces

So I am sure the verdict is pretty much determined.

[PoliticalPothead]

35. Do you have any proof that the killings were committed by the government...

Or are you just taking the MSM narrative at face value?

[sked14]

38. How about first hand knowledge?

My wife's relatives live there and it's known that the security forces shot those protesters.

[rdharma]

40. Oh, first hand knowledge, eh?

That doesn't even qualify as questionable hearsay information.

My tea-bagging uncle also "knows" that the President was born in Kenya. Can't question that, eh?

[sked14]

43. Yes, first hand knowledge, eh.

[PoliticalPothead]

42. That sounds more like anecdotal evidence than first hand knowledge.

There is no definitive proof as to whether the killings were committed by the government or opposition leaders, and until there is it's irresponsible to assign blame to either side.

[rdharma]

47. It's not even "anectdotal evidence".......

..... it's bizarre propaganda spread by someone with an axe to grind.

[sked14]

49. LOL, Ok.

[rdharma]

99. I thought your wife was from VN.....

..... how would she have first hand information about what's going on in VE?

Ya know what? You're not very convincing.

[bitchkitty]

131. LOL n/t

[joshcryer]

72. Video and image proof:

[freshwest]

124. I've watched it several times and while I see the government forces (heavily equipped), I can't tell

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 07:29 PM - Edit history (1)

what really happened. It's not like an army of police bearing down on anyone, it's all fluid and sporadic interactions.

It appears they were willing to allow the protests a great deal of leeway and held back. If anything, shots from police possibly not ordered, but the acts of individuals.

Are the charges being made that the government, through the use of non-uniformed officers on motorcycles, did the shooting?

I can't determine who is who on those motorcycles. To have demonstrations in narrow streets like that makes it hard to see what is happening as being organized. But thanks for posting this and the other video you did earlier.

I know that land reform has always been an issue in SA, that they'd had an entrenched plutocracy for centuries. And those groups will have allies.

The poor, we might suppose from afar in the USA, are supporting Maduro if he is indeed empowering them. At least that is the ideological thrust of his support here at DU, I'm guessing.

I see some of his actions as being similar to what other leaders we admire (FDR) did to resolve issues. In others, and in terms of the corruption surrounding the oil business, there is another element that is less savory and seems to be ignored by those who assume the USA in 2014 is the exact same as it was in 1954.

And that the world is, too, but then the other major powers had not made inroads in SA and other continents' economies. So it's different for that reason, we are not despite our self-flagellations, the only bogeyman existing.

I have not made up my mind on this. Appreciate an answer from you as you seem to have a different slant. I want to be able to evaluate both sides of the arguments.

[joshcryer]

128. yes they are visibly embedded with the police

what kind of police would allow an armed man in their vicinity?

Maduro is no FDR

[freshwest]

134. I'm going to look over the video again, looking for this 'embedding.'

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not sure, as I only saw one person, with a white shirt, who was clearly holding a pistol that he was planning to use. As he is not wearing any protective gear, and white is one of the colors that the protestors were wearing, perhaps to make them stand out on the OP, I thought perhaps he was a protestor.

And I agree, Maduro is in no way another FDR. No contest there. I was only referring to the price controls that have been posted about on DU. Prior to Pearl Harbor there were open and not so open fascist groups whose goals were to convince Americans to stay out of the war with Germany. FDR took some harsh measures after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, as we all know.

Those things are anathema to those of us who did not live in that time and place. Those are the only things comparable. The nepotism Maduro permits or encourges is in no possible way comparable to FDR. It sullies the idealistic goals that some believe the government is working to achieve. That is of course, a personal bias of mine, perhaps others believe there are some good things to come from that structure. or that it is standard down there.

Do you feel that any of the opposition is acting in bad faith at all? That their motives are less democratic than what is claimed
they are?

My feelings are based on my idea they are oligarchs. IMO, anything an oligarchic group does will be considered suspect to DUers.

Thanks for responding and TIA for any thoughts on this.

[joshcryer]

142. the protesters are a bunch of dumb idealistic kids

you don't protest against tupamaros, armed to the teeth, with total impunity

it's not hard to follow the video, not sure what the problem is

[freshwest]

146. I had to look up Tupamaros, do you believe they are sent out by the government there or act alone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupamaro_%28Venezuela%29

I'm guessing this develops with no money for proper police forces. Just like the Koch brothers plan for us. An armed, unvetted, untrained gun man in every school and in every public venue.

Some of the people in black appear to hve been official police with riot gear covering their faces, but the article says Tupamaros also hide their faces for their own reasons. I don't want to mix the two up.

Nothing like what we would imagine in Scandinavian style socialism. But every place is different. I wouldn't feel safe with them ruling the streets. According to the Wiki entry, there wasn't much safety for civilians before, either.

[freshwest]

137. OKAY!! Now I see it, I enlarged it and see the guy in white, he was behind the cops, a guy in tan,

another guy in brown, two in black and perhaps another guy in white also armed. They are moving behind the police lines, on motorcycles and walking.

I still can't see them actually shooting anyone as when the gunfired is heard, and the arrows didn't help me make it out, either. Add to that I can only read a small percentage of the captioning, and I was definitely confused, not seeing this as anything more than chaos.

I can't see anything but the aftermath of the shootings, but it's clear the government did send out sharp shooters to take out persons protesting.

And there is no good reason for them doing that to an unarmed crowd. I don't see them doing anything to the police, they are just shooting whenever they feel like it. This makes no sense, or else they don't realize that this is going to be seen by the world.

Once again, thanks for the clips you are providing.

[joshcryer]

143. the video isn't looking at them when they fire

but there are few people in the street, who else could have done it

[freshwest]

147. The guy brandishing a gun shows a lot. Unless the police were being shot at off camera. n/t

[arely staircase]

83. Lenin lite to Stalin Lite. nt

[sked14]

2. This should be interesting.

Let's just see if the Maduro regime is going to claim that Lopez is a US lackey under orders from the CIA to foment unrest and topple the govt. or if the Maduro is going to release him.

[FairWinds]

4. The Institute for Public Accuracy in DC . .

is a good source of info that often corrects the propaganda that we
are subjected to by the MSM. Here is their take on Venezuela.

http://www.accuracy.org/release/venezuela-is-u-s-backing-destabilization/

Generally, when the U.S. overthrows democratic progressive governments
in Latin America (Chile, 1973; Guatemala, 1954; Brazil, 1964; and others)
among the first things the newly installed governments do is to crank
up the death squads and torture chambers.

Venezuela could easily suffer such a fate.

You may have been taught in high school that the U.S. promotes
democracy around the world. Whoever told you that was lying.

[geek tragedy]

5. so that makes it okay to imprison political dissidents? nt

[Progressive dog]

96. It makes it okay to kill them

and blame it on someone else (usually the USA).

[sked14]

6. Ok, now, show me the proof with links that the US is fomenting

the unrest in VN to undermine and overthrow the Maduro regime, and I don't mean Maduro saying so, I mean credible links.

[freshwest]

148. Don't forget the genre. If TPTB allow it to be said, it's not CT, it's fake. Works at all levels. nt

[hrmjustin]

7. Do you have proof we are trying to overtgrow the government?

[sked14]

8. Well, Maduro did say so

and with some, that seems to be all the proof needed.

[hrmjustin]

11. I admit that I may not know every detail of what is going on in that nation

but he seems to be a bully.

[sked14]

13. My wife is VN., has numerous family members still living there

and they tell a far different story than the Maduro defenders here, most who have probably never visited the country.

Few VN's, except for the diehard fanatics, believe that the state of the country's economy is due to a US/CIA plot to undermine and overthrow the govt., most recognize it as a spectacular failure of the Chavistas and it won't surprise me if they're thrown out on their corrupt collective asses come the next elections.

[hrmjustin]

17. Thanks for the info.

[Mika]

14. A good place to look is the US's OTI (Office of Transition Initiatives

As well as the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), International Republican Institute (IRI), National Democratic Institute (NDI), USAID - OTI, etc etc.

After some basic searching, it looks like in 2014 the US is funding opposition activities to the tune of at $5 million - overtly.

[hrmjustin]

18. Is 5 million enough to overthrow the goverment? And that does not explain why Maduro is acting

like a bully.

[Zorra]

59. Nicholas Maduro is the democratically elected President of Venezuela, and is protecting his country

and people from hostile foreign and domestic wealthy private RW interests who wish to overthrow the government of Venezuela and institute a government of the 1%, and then privatize the resources, particularly the oil, of the Venezuelan people for their own profit.

Who does President Maduro he think he is, anyway?1? How dare he do something so un-Murican!1?

I'm just sayin', ya know?

[hrmjustin]

60. Is it legit to say his methods are wrong?

Just asking.

[Zorra]

67. No, just maybe less legit than saying that what Obama did to Occupy was was wrong.

The main difference here is that Obama was protecting the 1% from the 99%, and Maduro is protecting the 99% from the 1%, and Occupy was non-violent.

Occupy Arrests Near 8,000 As Wall Street Eludes Prosecution
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/occupy-wall-street-arrests_n_3326640.html


But, yes, violence is violence, and violence is nasty. But of course, President Obama did not expel any diplomats in the case of Occupy, because Occupy was a purely organic domestic movement by concerned Americans struggling for justice and equality against the oppression of superwealthy plutocrats, and Occupy was obviously not being agitated by agents provocateurs working for the RW interests of a foreign government.

But since President Maduro believes that a foreign government acting in the interests of superwealthy RW plutocrats is agitating to overthrow the democratic socialist government of Venezuela, he has thought it expedient to expel diplomats from the US because he believes that there is a clear and present danger.

[hrmjustin]

68. Wow, just wow.

Has he offered proof that the US is doing this or is his word law and can't be challenged?

[Zorra]

76. Sorry, I knew I'd hit a nerve with that, but it's really not ok when we do it, either.

Many Americans are very provincial and have never traveled out of the US, especially to Third World countries, and tend to have a narrow understanding of life and reality in these countries, with the addition of a hypocritical, elitist/exceptionalist view of their own superiority over the people and governments, and leaders of other countries.

Especially the "brown ignrunt indigenous peoples" south of the US, who should always respect and obey their Great Father in Washington, who knows what is best for them.


I feel compelled to tell you that, because of this general attitude of superiority that many North Americans consciously and unconsciously express toward our neighbors to the south, and because the US has repeatedly usurped the elected democracies and installed vicious RW dictators who crushed the citizenry in order to extract profit for the 1%, a whole lot of them detest Americans.

And they don't trust the US, and they just want us to stay the fuck out of their affairs.

I know this all sounds condescending, but it's true, folks generally don't like gringos much down there. To put it mildly.

Based on past US - Latin American relations, in which the US has repeatedly orchestrated the overthrow of leftist government and installed brutal RW dictatorships or banana democracies all over Latin America, and hid and/or lied about what they were doing to the American people, I have good reason to believe him.

I believe Maduro more regarding the US working to install a RW government favorable to mega oil companies than I believe President Obama when he says the TPP will be good for the people of the US.

President Maduro is not under the influence or control of the 1%, with the exception that they force him to defend his country from their greed and exploitation.

I very sincerely wish I could say I knew the same thing about President Obama. I do believe President Obama pretty much does the best he can under the pressures and circumstances he has been placed in; on the social front he's been pretty good.

Venezuela has the largest oil reserve in South America. Bolivia has the second largest oil reserve in South America. Both are socialist democracies. Both have nationalized their oil reserves.

If you don't believe that Exxon, Shell, Conoco-Phillips, Chevron, etc. are putting enormous pressure on our government to help oust Maduro and Morales and install a RW stooge for the 1% as leaders of those countries so that they can make money from that oil, you might consider buying the beautiful island I have for sale 50 miles west of Petaluma.

All you need to do is to see and understand what our government has done to Cuba, because they have refused to allow the 1% to own them.

[zeemike]

84. +1

And thank you again Zorra...

[joshcryer]

88. Haha, Maduro not influenced by the 1%. Like Cisneros.

Your entire screed is embarrassing with how out of touch you are on this issue.

http://www.correodelorinoco.gob.ve/politica/empresario-gustavo-cisneros-manifesto-su-apoyo-al-presidente-maduro-y-paz-venezuela/

Venezuela's oil was nationalized long before the supposed "socialists" came into power.

[Zorra]

97. Posting desperate personal attacks and rofl smilies means "game over" at democratic underground.

Chavez completes re-nationalization of oil reserves
Wednesday, May 2nd 2007 - 21:00 UTC

Venezuela took control of the Orinoco oil installations on May first completing the process of “re-nationalization” of the nation's oil reserves. President Hugo Chávez led celebrations of the takeover of the Orinoco Oil Belt which could convert Venezuela into the country with the largest oil reserves.

Venezuela Decrees Nationalization of Last Foreign Controlled Oil Fields

Caracas, February 27, 2007 (venezuelanalysis.com)— Venezuela’s President Chavez announced a new law-decree, which will nationalize the last remaining oil production sites that are under foreign company control. The nationalizations, which affect oil production in the Orinoco Oil Belt, will take effect on May 1st of this year, until which time companies may negotiate the terms of the nationalization.

Below are the main nationalizations under Chavez:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/08/us-venezuela-election-nationalizations-idUSBRE89701X20121008

OIL

* In 2007, Chavez's government took a majority stake in four oil projects in the vast Orinoco heavy crude belt worth an estimated $30 billion in total.

* In 2008, Chavez's administration implemented a windfall tax of 50 percent for prices over $70 per barrel, and 60 percent on oil over $100. Oil reached $147 that year, but soon slumped.

* In 2009, Chavez seized a major gas injection project belonging to Williams Cos Inc and a range of assets from local service companies. This year, the energy minister said the government would pay $420 million to Williams and one of its U.S. partners, Exterran Holdings, for the takeover.

* In June 2010, the government seized 11 oil rigs from Oklahoma-based Helmerich & Payne Inc.

[Judi Lynn]

145. Thanks for sharing these links with people who want to know. n/t

[joshcryer]

152. Right. Chavez got rid of contractors.

But it was still nationalized.

What Chavez did was 1) piss off the highly trained workers who went on strike then fired them all and 2) fire all the contractors who were working within the industry.

It's the sole reason Venezuela's production is declining and why billions are siphoned away in scams like the Aban Pearl.

And yes, I found it hilarious that you'd claim that fucking Maduro isn't in the pockets of the 1%. The naivety is astounding.

[MADem]

155. They don't call the thieves from the left the BOLIGARCHS fer nuttin'!! nt

[Hestia]

93. Good analysis - remember, Cheney made it his personal mission to do everything to take

over VN and since these same embedded "diplomats" are still there, obeying the orders of their overlords, look like they are still there to do as much damage as they can and spreading as much propaganda in the process, getting $5M to spread it far and wide.

It is rather disingenuous to compare Maduro to Mugabe (who has been in power since 1987) and Maduro was elected a year, year and a half ago? He has had time to set up that kind of power. Sounds like a statement of the 1% of VN because that is what they have been saying since Chavez was elected and has never stopped.

[EX500rider]

100. "If you don't believe that Exxon, Shell, Conoco-Phillips, Chevron, etc...."

".......If you don't believe that Exxon, Shell, Conoco-Phillips, Chevron, etc. are putting enormous pressure on our government to help oust Maduro and Morales and install a RW stooge for the 1% as leaders of those countries so that they can make money from that oil, you might consider buying the beautiful island I have for sale 50 miles west of Petaluma.'

I don't think you understand how the global oil industry works....what do you think Venz. and Bolivia do with their oil now? Sit on it? They sell it abroad to the various oil companies you listed. Most of Venz.s oil comes to the US as we are her largest import AND export partner.

So you think oil companies are putting pressure on Obama to overthrow Venz. and he is doing their bidding....I can see why you own a island 50 miles w of petaluma.

[hack89]

101. The irony here is that the VZ government's survival is dependent on those evil oil companies

buying their oil. They have built a house of cards built on oil revenues - they have already lost control of their economic future by their failure to diversify the economy and their failure to modernize their oil infrastructure. All they can do is helplessly hold on and hope oil prices do not fall.

[sulphurdunn]

140. The relationship between Venezuela

and the US regarding oil is co-dependent. We need them as much as they need us. Wall Street doesn't want to see the price of oil drop any more than Caracas does, and it won't. Nobody is "hanging on by their finger nails" over oil. They're fighting to determine who controls it. It's the same fight that's been going on down there between them and us for more than a century.

[hack89]

144. We have been steadily decreasing our imports from VZ

as we move from a net importer to a net exporter of petroleum products.

VZ's entire economy is skewed by oil. There is no other large source of revenue for the government. If oil prices fall their deficit will balloon to enormous and unmanagable size. They are utterly dependent on oil revenue. America is not - our economy is vast and diversified.

[joshcryer]

156. Yeah, and since we are their nearest refiner, they are going to be in trouble.

Only China can refine the shitty crude Venezuela has. And it's like 3 times the distance or something.

[joshcryer]

89. He has no proof.

And he's a homophobic bigot to start.

[flightplan]

102. Uggh!!!

This guy is a homophobic bigot, so why is he such a hero to some here?

[EX500rider]

70. So the people themselves have no legitimate complaints?

It's all CIA paid operatives pretending to be students?

Everything is perfect?

No one minds the highest murder rate in South America?
Rolling blackouts ok in a country awash in oil?
Shortage of consumer goods and 50% inflation fun maybe?
Falling oil production that funds 95% of the government due to mismanagement a good thing?

[Zorra]

80. Of course they do.

Corruption, violence, and poverty was institutionalized in Venezuela long before Maduro was elected, just like in most Latin American countries. What Obama was left with after Bush is a picnic compared to the pile of stink that Chavez and Maduro have had to contend with.

How did Venezuela change under Hugo Chávez?
Venezuela's president has died 14 years after his first election victory. How did the country changed since Hugo Chávez took power?
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/oct/04/venezuela-hugo-chavez-election-data

• Unemployment has dropped from 14.5% of the total labour force in 1999 to 7.6% in 2009
• GDP per capita has risen from $4,105 to $10,801 in 2011
• Poverty has decreased - in 1999, 23.4% of the population were recorded as being in extreme poverty, this fell to 8.5% in 2011 according to official government figures
• Infant mortality is now lower than in 1999 - from a rate of 20 per 1,000 live births then to a rate of 13 per 1,000 live births in 2011
• Oil exports have boomed - Venezuela has one of the top proven oil reserves in the world and in 2011 Opec put the country's net oil export revenues at $60bn. In 1999 it stood at $14.4bn

Conditions for the people of Venezuela have improved over the past 15 years, but they still have a long way to go. Dissent is generally healthy, unless it is financed and fueled by greedy, wealthy private interests. If current conditions don't improve, President Maduro won't be re-elected. If 1% RWers like Capriles or Lopez are elected, the people of Venezuela will have to live with what they have done to themselves, just like we will be living with the semi-irreparable destruction of the Reagan and Bush administrations for the rest of our lives.

[joshcryer]

87. Brazil and Chile spent more on education and reduced poverty quicker.

Without leading to massive crime, corruption, graft, deterioration of infrastructure, and death. So this whole "all Latin American states had problems" crap is BS deflection trying to hide Chavismo's failure.

This is all while Venezuela had a windfall in oil prices.

1% RWers like Capriles or Lopez are elected, the people of Venezuela will have to live with what they have done to themselves

As if they wouldn't come out and protest painful policies by Lopez or Capriles...

Venezuelans are already living with the utter destruction of the crony boligarchs.

Some people really have a low opinion of Venezuelans, as if they're too stupid to be duped in to some "irreparable destruction" by choosing to vote for the perceived leftist. 'cept, yaknow, both Lopez and Capriles denounced Maduro's homophobic and bigoted anti-semitic comments.

[EX500rider]

103. "Corruption, violence, and poverty was institutionalized in Venezuela long before Maduro was elected

.."

Not their fault at all, of course.

I see. And in the 15 years the Chavista's have had, has the violence and corruption gone down or up?

Of course poverty has gone down-made possible by oil prices that have shot up, sending more than $981 billion in revenues to the state oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela SA, between 1999 and 2011. Things should have gotten a LOT better with that much money to throw at the problems.

"Despite the oil boom, the government has more than tripled its public foreign debt from $24.2 billion when he took office to $88.7 billion in the first quarter of this year. Much of that foreign money has come from China, which has lent Venezuela more than $36 billion. By contrast, other oil-rich nations such as the United Arab Emirates and Norway have saved billions in investment funds."

"Among Latin American countries, the economies of Brazil, Chile, Peru and Argentina all have expanded more rapidly than Venezuela's since Chavez took office in 1999, recording average growth between 3 and 5 percent a year. Venezuela, by contrast, averaged a 2.8 percent annual increase of gross domestic product between 1999 and 2011, according to International Monetary Fund figures. By that measure, the country was outperformed by every other member of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries except Libya. Even war-torn Iraq posted higher growth."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/23/venezuela-oil-production_n_1907170.html

[Zorra]

107. From the same article: "Where The Money Went"

On a rutted unpaved road in the countryside outside Caracas, unemployed housewife Moreli Gonzalez lives in a shack with a dirt floor and walls made of rusting sheets of zinc. She is thankful to Chavez that she now receives a $280-a-month cash benefit through a program called "Mothers of the Neighborhood Mission."

"Now we have everything," said Gonzalez, who credits a government education program with helping her learn to read – and a state-run grocery down the road that has made food more affordable.

"We eat better," she said, showing off cupboards filled with bags of rice and pasta. "My children didn't used to eat snacks. Now they eat well."

The government programs for the poor are why Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez recently boasted: "This was one country before President Chavez's government, and a different one afterward."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/23/venezuela-oil-production_n_1907170.html

I suppose it would have been better to build skyscrapers and museums and homes for the lifestyles of the rich and famous, like they did in the *lovely and free people's paradise of Dubai, instead of take care of people in ways like providing food, health care, and education?

Priorities. Decisions, decisons

[link:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7985361.stm|
Dark side of the Dubai dream]

It is a place in the sun for over a million of us who holiday there every year. It boasts a host of luxury apartments that has celebrities flocking. But behind the glitz and glamour of Dubai often lies a murky world of exploitation and an immigrant work force living on the breadline.

Hit by the credit crunch, Dubai's economy has taken a turn for the worse reliant as it is on tourism, financial services and real estate. For those labouring to make the Dubai dream a reality, building the homes for the rich and famous, are facing greater pressures than ever.
snip---
The authorities also reported that the camp was overcrowded with 7,500 labourers sharing 1,248 rooms with poor ventilation.

But with the downturn in the economy, the workers feel less able to complain as the consequences are graver.

[EX500rider]

109. keep reading a little further down..

...."It's overwhelmingly clear that Venezuela has wasted the windfall," said Francisco Monaldi, an economist and director of the International Center of Energy and the Environment at Caracas' IESA business school. "You should have had much greater economic growth, much greater reduction of poverty."

[Zorra]

114. Of course. All RWers see feeding people, and providing healthcare and education

to poverty stricken people, as a huge waste of money. Hard core capitalists have no use for societies and economies whose primary focus is taking care of human beings and expanding government in order to take care of human beings, instead of create profit for the wealthy.

Koch Bros, Bush, Trump, Ted Cruz, Reagan, Limbaugh, etc. all would agree with Monaldi that government social programs for the poor are a waste of money when the money could be used to build skyscrapers and make more coin for the 1%.

University enrollment has also more than doubled. Low-income students now attend the tuition-free Bolivarian University, which was established on the leafy campus of a former state oil company office building.

One of the biggest expenses, though, has simply been supporting a growing bureaucracy. The number of public employees has ballooned during Chavez's presidency, from about 1.3 million to 2.4 million. And Chavez has made clear that if he's re-elected, "that's going to keep going up.
snip---
Yes, government food giveaways mean millions of poor people have more to eat, but critics argue that Chavez's largesse has ignored basic remedies needed to modernize the nation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/23/venezuela-oil-production_n_1907170.html

OMG, Chavez fed hungry people instead of modernizing the nation! What a horrible, evil person! Where were his priorities?


In my house, I always made sure the kids had enough to eat and were healthy before I even thought about replacing the old fridge that still worked instead of buying a new one and letting my kids go hungry.

Priorities.

[EX500rider]

118. The complaint is not that people were fed but that not ENOUGH people were..

...fed with a trillion dollars in oil money.

[Zorra]

133. Could you please post the specific passage in the article where it says not enough people were

fed?

I re-read the article several times, and couldn't find it.

[EX500rider]

139. i already did:

."It's overwhelmingly clear that Venezuela has wasted the windfall," said Francisco Monaldi, an economist and director of the International Center of Energy and the Environment at Caracas' IESA business school. "You should have had much greater economic growth, much greater reduction of poverty."

[joshcryer]

86. 49% of Venezuelans are the top 1%?

Do you even math?

[bitchkitty]

132. You're awesome. n/t

[Zorra]

138. Thanks, but..nah, I'm just your average everyday DU liberal lefty trying

in as many ways as I can to bring about a more equal and just world for everyone.

“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”
~Arundhati Roy

[EX500rider]

157. since President Maduro believes that a foreign government acting in the interests of superwealthy RW

................ plutocrats is agitating to overthrow the democratic socialist government of Venezuela, he has thought it expedient to expel diplomats from the US because he believes that there is a clear and present danger. "

If that's what he believe's but i doubt it. Much more likely to be for public consumption, when you have 56% inflation, shortage of consumer goods and a murder rate 10 times ours and the worse in South America it helps to have a boogeyman to pull out of the drawer, the typical "don't look there, look over here!!" Given the current conditions in Venz. I don't think the college students really need the CIA to force them to demonstrate.

[Zorra]

28. Oh, please, that's commie propaganda. The US would NEVER do anything like that!

Show me even one example of where the US has tried to topple democratically elected left leaning governments in Central or South America.






No, wait...I mean, show me one example where the US Government didn't try to topple democratically elected left leaning government in Central or South America.

[sked14]

31. Show me one ounce of proof that the US is fomenting this current unrest,

or that we're sabotaging the VN economy, other than Pres. Maduro saying so, or past history.

My wife's relatives, who are hardly RW elitists, say the exact opposite of what your trying to push here.

[PoliticalPothead]

58. Show me one ounce of proof that the Venezuelan government is responsible for the killings,

Other than your wife's relatives saying so.

[joshcryer]

74. I have done so but you can see it again here:

[RedstDem]

90. did you actually type "or past history"

that's a riot!!, sry, had to chuckle at that.

[Judi Lynn]

75. Thank you!

The right-wingers prey upon intellectually lazy people who won't take the time to find out for themselves. Now it's almost too obvious for anyone to be unaware.

It's almost embarrassing to see these guys hacking away here day by day at a progressive message board, isn't it?

Ignorance is the natural environment for right-wing propaganda. Democrats tend to be brighter than right-wingers.

As has been pointed out, people in other countries are very well acquainted with the tactics, the results that happen once the US has decided it will overthrow a leftist leader and put in a US business-friendly puppet.

It's been happening too long for anyone to be unaware of what has happened by now, 2014. All anyone has to do is look for the information personally, no matter what our corporate media try to peddle.

People who provide good sources are doing a public service. Thank you.

[Zorra]

9. It's Not Fascism When We Do It!

http://listverse.com/2009/07/11/10-cases-of-american-intervention-in-latin-america/

This is only ten. There are many, many more documented cases, far more than I can possibly post, and logic dictates that there are far more that cannot be documented.

What is the SOA?

History

The School of the Americas (SOA) is a combat training school for Latin American soldiers, located at Fort Benning, Georgia. In 2001 renamed the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC).
snip---
Since 1946, the SOA has trained over 64,000 Latin American soldiers in counterinsurgency techniques, sniper training, commando and psychological warfare, military intelligence and interrogation tactics. These graduates have consistently used their skills to wage a war against their own people. Among those targeted by SOA graduates are educators, union organizers, religious workers, student leaders, and others who work for the rights of the poor. Hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans have been tortured, raped, assassinated, “disappeared,” massacred, and forced into refugee by those trained at the School of Assassins.

CIA Activities in Venezuela
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Venezuela

CIA activities in Bolivia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Bolivia

CIA activities in Honduras
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Honduras

United States intervention in Chile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile

Cuba - US relations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93United_States_relations

2009:

WikiLeaks Honduras: State Dept. Busted on Support of Coup
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/wikileaks-honduras-state_b_789282.html

2002 coup in Venezuela:

In 2009, former US President Jimmy Carter told Colombian newspaper El Tiempo that he believed that Washington knew about the abortive coup and may have been involved.[105]

Bush Administration officials acknowledged meeting with some of the planners of the coup in the several weeks prior to 11 April but have strongly denied encouraging the coup itself, saying that they insisted on constitutional means.[107] However, a Defense Department official who was involved in the development of policy towards Venezuela said the administration was sending a different message. "We were not discouraging people," the official said. "We were sending informal, subtle signals that we don't like this guy. We didn't say, 'No, don't you dare,' and we weren't advocates saying, 'Here's some arms; we'll help you overthrow this guy.' We were not doing that.

Because of the allegations, an investigation conducted by the US Inspector General, at the request of US Senator Christopher Dodd, requested a review of American activities leading up to and during the coup attempt. The OIG report found no "wrongdoing" by US officials either in the State Department or in the Embassy, but it also concluded that "It is clear that NED [the National Endowment for Democracy], Department of Defense (DOD), and other US assistance programs provided training, institution building, and other support to individuals and organizations understood to be actively involved in the brief ouster of the Chávez government."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt#Allegations_of_US_involvement

CIA activities in Guatemala
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Guatemala

CIA activities in Nicaragua
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Nicaragua

CIA activities in Colombia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Colombia

Latin America–United States relations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America%E2%80%93United_States_relations

There are myriad examples of direct and covert US interference in Latin America, acts perpetrated with the intention of installing RW governments of the 1% that inevitably exploit and oppress the 99% in those nations where RW governments were installed.

Watch as DU supporters of the imperialist neoliberal 1% agenda continue to cheer for RW candidates to assume power in Latin American nations, while denying any possible covert US involvement favorable to the 1% in Latin America.

[sked14]

10. Old history,

show us the proof that the Obama admin is involved in the current unrest, other than Maduro says so.

[Zorra]

16. I can't. We are almost never able to find these things out until they are old history.

We didn't know almost all of the things I posted until they were old history.

But don't worry; the President is probably unaware of any covert activity to overthrow the government of Venezuela by the US, if there is such activity.

[geek tragedy]

20. What if there isn't, and this is just an excuse being used by Maduro

to crack down on political dissent?

Any time a government starts arresting political opponents, isn't a high level of skepticism warranted?

[sked14]

23. IOW, the proof is that there is no proof?

Or that Pres. Maduro has declared it so?
My wife's family tells a far different story, few, except the diehard fanatics, now believe that the country's current unrest or the economy is the results of meddling by the US/CIA, most believe that it's the results of the Chavistas economic policies coupled with wholesale corruption and mismanagement on the part of the govt.

[Zorra]

32. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"'.

~ George Santayana

I can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow. But judging from the overwhelming evidence of past experience, I'm 99.9% sure it will.

[sked14]

36. And yet, most ordinary VN's don't view the US as the problem for the current

unrest and economic meltdown, they blame the present govt for the turmoil in the country with the corruption and mismanagement of the economy.

[Zorra]

41. Possibly true, but how is that relevant to this conversation? nt

[sked14]

44. You're alleging that this mess is due to US involvement

and I'm telling you that's not how most VN's see it.

[Zorra]

54. How do "most VN's" see it? nt

[sked14]

57. As corruption and mismanagement within the govt.

[Zorra]

63. It appears we got sidetracked here, how the Venezuelan people view

corruption in government has little or nothing to do with the possible fact that the US and/or wealthy RW private interests are fomenting unrest in Venezuela.

Venezuela has corruption and mismanagement in government, just like the US does.

Just because many people in the US don't see wealthy RWers like the Koch Bothers in the US trying to take over the government, doesn't mean they are not trying to take over our government, by any and every means possible.

It's the same thing RWers do everywhere. They try to control governments in order to exploit the people and extract profit for their own personal interests. The 1% wants it all and they want it now, and they will do anything they feel they need to to get it.

[polly7]

64. Venezuela Under Attack Again

http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/venezuela-under-attack-again/

Monetary warfare. This started with run on the currency, the manipulation of the black market dollar, obtaining dollars at preferential price from the government under false reasons. Maduro did not hesitate: he regulated prices and changed the monetary exchange rules and 70% approved of his response.[ii]

False scarcity: A double blow of outrageous overpricing of goods plus artificial food scarcity started just as people were beginning their Christmas shopping. Wealthy merchants proceeded to hoard essential goods: corn flour, sugar, salt, cooking oil, toilet paper, etc. placing them in hidden warehouses or spirited off to Colombia through a well-planned smuggling operation. The military discovered an illegal bridge built for motorcycles that carried the smuggled goods. Thousands of bags of foodstuffs were discovered simply left rotting on Colombian byways: this was not smuggling for economic reasons, but for political reasons. The Colombian government cooperated with the Venezuelan government to stop this smuggling.

Attack on Venezuela’s petroleum company PDVSA: the international press has been alleging that PDVSA is failing because it is using its profits for social programs instead of re-investing, and that the country is running out of petroleum. Funnily enough they never warn Canada or Saudi Arabia about oil scarcity. They even state the preposterous notion that Venezuela is importing gasoline from the USA. The fact is that PDVS owns the large oil company CITGO in USA whose refinery often sends back to Venezuela a special liquid used for improving gasoline grade 95. PDVSA is still one of the top 5 oil companies in the world according to the influential Petroleum Intelligence Weekly.[iii]

Campaign to discredit the economy. The international media has been predicting doom and gloom for Venezuela for years! The Venezuelan economy is doing very well. Its oil exports last year amounted to $94 billons while the imports only reached $59.3 billons – a historically low record. The national reserves are at $22 billons and the economy has a surplus (not a deficit) of 2.9% of GDP. The country has no significantly onerous national or foreign debts.[iv] These are excellent indicators that many countries in Europe would envy, even the USA and Canada. The multinational bank Wells Fargo has recently declared that Venezuela is one of the emerging economies that is most protected against any possible financial crisis and the Bank of America Merril Lynch has recommended to its investors to buy Venezuelan government bonds. [v]

[Hestia]

94. Thank you for the post!

[EX500rider]

104. "placing them in hidden warehouses or spirited off to Colombia through a well-planned smuggling"

Yeah- when you have inept government price controls and super high inflation that's what happens.....no plot needed, that ends up being the only course of action, sell across the border where you won't lose money or go out of business as inflation and price controls spirals your buying power into the toilet.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

154. Then why do they keep re-electing the current government?

Venezuela's elections have been monitored internationally and always come up clean. If the all the people hate Maduro they have a funny way of showing it. Much like my white neighbors in Texas that swear that no one supports Obama, I don't think your right wing family are representative of the entire population.

[Judi Lynn]

79. History does not have anything to do with the present? Is that right?

Why do you think they call covert operations "covert operations?"

Is it because they are doing nothing wrong, and are proud for everyone to know what they are doing in another country? Is that why everyone knows it but the very taxpayers who are footing the bills for destabilizing other governments?'

US citizens only find out much later through secret documents which might finally become available years and years later through F.O.I.A.

A mind is, in some cases, a hideous thing to waste. It can make a spectacle of the owner.

[EX500rider]

106. So everything the US govt has done in the past...

...it has to be doing right now?

Regardless of administration, they are all the same?

Interchangeable apparently back to the 1950's?

[geek tragedy]

12. in other words, you have nothing except history books nt

[Mika]

15. History never repeats. Historical patterns do not exist.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

[geek tragedy]

19. In other words, you have nothing.

Generally, I would require a higher level of proof than a cartoon before supporting authoritarianism, even on the left.

But, we obviously disagree.

[Mika]

21. Nothing but $5 million and a rich historical pattern.

Based on many of your fantastical anti Cuba rants, using proof isn't one of your strong suits.

Have a nice day.

[geek tragedy]

22. Ah, you equate being anti-Casto dictatorship to being anti-Cuba. Telling.

So, in other words, leftwing authoritarianism is your preferred mode of governance.

We merely disagree on the necessity of democracy. To each their own.

P.S. leftwing authoritariansim--from Stalin to Mao to Castro to now Maduro--has an equally long historical pattern

P.P.S. Spare me the bullshit about Castro being 'elected' when all opposition parties were banned and dissent was criminalized.

[Mika]

27. Thanks for the demonstration.

[sked14]

30. So, what's your knowledge of the politics in VN?

Other than what you read on the internet? Any relatives living there? Ever lived there? Ever visited?

[Mika]

33. I pretty much limit my Ven commentary to US funding of the opposition.

I have visited several times (doing work with smiletrain.org), and have a few friends there as well as quite a few Venezuelan friends here in Miami.
I don't comment much on the topic, except for some discussion on US funding, and Cuba/Ven relations.

Is that OK with you?

[sked14]

34. Fair enough.

My knowledge comes from have lived there for a number of years, my wife is VN, and still has numerous family members there, we keep in constant contact with them so we're pretty much up on the goings on there and I can tell you, most ordinary VN's don't view the US as the boogyman that the Maduro regime is trying to portray it as, they place the blame squarely where it belongs, on the shoulders of the Chavistas and their disasterous economic policies and the huge corruption and mismanagement of the govt.

[EX500rider]

105. Not very clear there..

....so you prefer the left-wing dictatorship style government of Cuba (yes they have free healthcare) to democracy? Or do you agree with Greek Tragedy that a democracy is preferable?

[Mika]

112. Your question is based on a false premise.

Perhaps you should do a little unbiased research. Here's a good place to start...

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-1997-98-Elections-Arnold-August/dp/0968508405/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392835598&sr=1-2&keywords=democracy+in+cuba+arnold+august


http://www.amazon.com/Cuba-Its-Neighbours-Democracy-published/dp/B00CHGFOBK/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392835598&sr=1-3&keywords=democracy+in+cuba+arnold+august

[EX500rider]

113. Rigggght....one of those "President for Life" democracies..

That's funny.

Anybody can sell a book they wrote on Amazon....does not make them all factual non-fiction however.

[Mika]

116. Your response in indicative of your ignorance on this topic.

Wallow away.

[EX500rider]

117. Yes it must have been fingernail biting exciting wondering if Castro was going to win..

...every election. lol

[EX500rider]

119. Sounds like heaven.....if you like police states..

"The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions (also known as "El Paredón&quot .The Human Rights Watch alleges the government "represses nearly all forms of political dissent" and that "Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law".

The European Union in 2003 accused the Cuban government of "continuing flagrant violation of human rights and fundamental freedoms".[108] The United States continues an embargo against Cuba "so long as it continues to refuse to move toward democratization and greater respect for human rights".

Cuba had the second-highest number of imprisoned journalists of any nation in 2008 (the People's Republic of China had the highest) according to various sources, including the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ), an international NGO, and Human Rights Watch. As a result of ownership restrictions, computer ownership rates are among the world's lowest. The right to use the Internet is granted only to selected locations and they may be monitored.

Cuban dissidents who commit crimes face arrest and imprisonment. In the 1990s, Human Rights Watch reported that Cuba's extensive prison system, one of the largest in Latin America, consists of some 40 maximum-security prisons, 30 minimum-security prisons, and over 200 work camps. According to Human Rights Watch, political prisoners, along with the rest of Cuba's prison population, are confined to jails with substandard and unhealthy conditions."

Let me guess, time to throw Human Rights Watch under the bus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba#Government_and_politics

[sked14]

25. Well, Pres. Maduro did say so,

so, I guess we're supposed to take that as the proof that the US/CIA is trying to overthrow the VN govt, or, the proof is that there is no proof.

[geek tragedy]

26. same people who insist Cuba is a bastion of democratic freedom. nt

[sked14]

29. And the same people who insisted that the former Soviet Union was a beacon

of democracy and elections were free and fair.

[EX500rider]

121. It's amazing...i've seen Mugabe supporters, Castro fans & even N Korea cheerleaders..

post from time to time here....boggles the mind. (started reading DU in '05)

[Bacchus4.0]

24. what about the Ven police killing the protesters and then charging the opposition for that crime

what would Officer Barbrady say about that?

[EX500rider]

71. You forgot some stuff Teddy Roosevelt did....lol

Have any examples from this administration or are all Presidents interchangeable going back how far?

[Zorra]

149. 2009, Honduras? So many democratically elected leftist governments to overthrow, so little time. nt

U.S. Involvement

The U.S. State Department freely admitted it had consulted with the perpetrators prior to the coup (Wall Street Journal, 6/29/09). With the U.S. as Honduras’ largest trading partner, its army heavily subsidized by the U.S., and some of the coup leaders including the head of the military trained in the U.S. School of the Americas, at least some tacit involvement in the coup by U.S. is evident. The popular saying among Latin Americans is “The Honduran army breathes through the noses of its U.S. advisers.”

But the world is a different place than it was in 1954 with the CIA-backed coup in Guatemala or even the Nixon-Kissinger coup in Chile in 1973, which brought the reign of terror under Pinochet to Chile. Attempted coups with U.S. backing against democratically elected and popular leaders failed in Venezuela in 2002 and in Bolivia in 2008 (but succeeded in Haiti in 2004).

Internationally the coup in Honduras has received universal approbation. The United Nations and the Organization of American States have both unanimously condemned the illegal coup and called for the immediate restoration of the constitutional government.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-honduran-coup-and-us-involvement/14993

[EX500rider]

150. "The U.S. State Department freely admitted it had consulted"

I assume the state department has many contacts in many countries...that's their job. Doesn't automatically make it sinister.

[Zorra]

153. Well, then, sir, I guess we'll just have to respectfully agree that it's ok to disagree.

We could go round and round all day and night

But I will always take the side of the People against the RW and the 1%.

[rdharma]

37. Amazing! DU members supporting a RW golpe de estado in Venezuela.....

..... and demanding "proof" that the CIA is sponsoring it.

I suppose the CIA had nothing to do with the attempted 2002 Venezuelan coup d'état either. Right?

Do you want to see a CIA memo to Lopez to be convinced of CIA involvement? Really?

If it quacks like a duck........

[sked14]

39. Show us the proof with links that the US/CIA is fomenting the current unrest in VN.

other than Pres. Maduro saying so.
And these protesters, they're not all RW, they're form all walks of life, they're disgusted with the conditions in VN and the corruption of the govt and inability to weed out the corruptiona and get the economy back on track.

[rdharma]

45. I have "first hand" information from my brother-in-law, John Brennan.......nt

[sked14]

46. IOW, you have nothing to add.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[rdharma]

48. Your information source's bona fides is surely beyond question!

[sked14]

50. Yes.

[rdharma]

51. Buwahahahaa!

[sked14]

52. Exactly what I'm doing to your post.

[geek tragedy]

53. actually, yes, some kind of proof is required before justifying a government imprisoning

political dissidents.

"if it quacks like a duck"

Maduro quacks like a tin-horn dictator, and I pity the people here who are incapable of viewing his actions with skepticism.

[rdharma]

55. I pity the people here who assume that a RW tool is telling the truth......nt

[geek tragedy]

56. I make no such assumptions, He is a rightwing tool, and I don't trust anything he says.

I also do not trust the Venezuelan government.

Imprisoning political dissidents--even rightwing assholish ones--is what authoritarian thug regimes do.

[rdharma]

61. Lopez..... a dissident or an operative?

I think you should do some research on Leopoldo López Mendoza before you insert foot in mouth. Seriously!

[geek tragedy]

62. Again, what evidence is there that he's an agent of the US government?

Your accusations and innuendoes are not proof. Nor is the fact that he advocates policies that will help the 1% justification for throwing his ass in jail.

it is a matter of routine for authoritarians to accuse their opponents of being agents of a foreign power, and then arresting them. Apologists for authoritarian regime will then parrot this propaganda.

I guess you are part of the "see no evil" caucus when it comes to Venezuela's government. They of course wouldn't jail a political opponent unless he was a criminal. Of course not.

[rdharma]

65. You didn't look into Leopoldo López Mendoza's background.......

.... did you?

I figured you wouldn't.

"Authoritarian"? That's funny coming from someone defending this RW tool!

[geek tragedy]

66. I looked into his background. Seems to be a Mitt Romney type.

How does that make him an operative of a foreign power?

Should Obama have had Romney arrested?

Authoritarianism is not a rightwing or a leftwing phenomenon. It's a mindset found in people who refuse to question the actions of a government or other powerful institution.

[rdharma]

69. You've only scratched the surface on Lopez.

I'm disappointed in your research skills.

[joshcryer]

73. You could provide proof.

But you are unable to because even the sources you'd cite wouldn't have evidence, just conjecture and innuendo.

[rdharma]

77. And what is YOUR proof?

See how that game is played?

I'd suggest you do more research on Torez. The information is out there.

[joshcryer]

78. See posts #72 and #74.

If you read the thread you will know I have already provided the proof. SEBIN, official government officers, are behind the murders.

[rdharma]

81. Cadena Capriles ring a bell? That's your "proof"?

Ermergerrd!

You DO know who owns that source you cited...... don't you?

If not, you should research it. Really! Or else you risk looking very silly.

Capriles, Capriles........ now where have I heard that name before?

Edited to tell you: YOU KNOW WHO CAPRILES IS! You've posted about him before.

It is now very clear where you are coming from!

[joshcryer]

82. Did you watch the video?

All they did is compile publicly available images and video.

Also Cadena Capriles has no link to Henrique Capriles Radonski, they are distant relatives.

[ChangoLoa]

91. Cut the crap. Ultimas Noticias doesn't belong to cadena Capriles.

[Hestia]

95. Thank you for spurring research on Leopoldo López Mendoza and wow - I agree with you

on how members of DU can support this guy. Only took mere moments to do a bit of reading about him. Good ol' US training in his RW extreme ideology. This should be the last guy we should support. Who's zoomin' who here? Why would anybody take the time to write a forum post on support of this guy? Again wow...

[EX500rider]

108. He is a Venezuelan politician and economist...

....who from 2000 until 2008,was the mayor of the Chacao Municipality of Caracas.

"López was born in Caracas on 29 April 1971, the second of three brothers. He studied at the Colegio Santiago de León de Caracas and graduated from the Hun School of Princeton. He graduated from Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio in 1993, where he received a degree in Sociology. He subsequently attended Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government where he obtained a Master of Public Policy in 1996. In 2007, he received an honorary Doctor of Laws Degree from Kenyon. In May 2007 he married Lilian Tintori, with whom he had a daughter in 2009."

Oh. I see. he went to college in the US so he must be a CIA stooge who sold his soul to the devil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldo_L%C3%B3pez_Mendoza

[rdharma]

110. CIA funnels him money through USAID and NED

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2600

[EX500rider]

111. Sorry, that site won't do as any kind of proof of anything..

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 05:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Gregory Wilpert, a founder and editor, describes the website as "mostly pro-Chavez"; Wilpert's wife Carol Delgado was named Hugo Chávez's Consul General in New York in 2008. The Global Post described Wilpert as "perhaps the most prominent Chavista"

[bitchkitty]

135. Lots of quacking HERE.

Always the same 5-6 people, cheering each other on. There's always someone who "lives there" or who "has relatives there" and always the same stupid jokes and comments about Maduro's sanity. When President Chavez was alive there were charming jokes about his weight and the same disdain when he dared to point out the obvious, that the US does and is interfering in Venezuela's democracy. Maybe not officially, but they are. He knew it, Maduro knows it and anyone with the slightest grasp of our recent history knows it too.

[rdharma]

136. I've seen that pattern too.

It's hard for me to believe somebody has relatives living in Venezuela when they use "VN" (Vietnam) as the abbreviation for the country.

I wonder who they think they are fooling.

[Judi Lynn]

85. Towards another coup in Venezuela?

Towards another coup in Venezuela?

Protests are initiated by ultra-right factions of the opposition in the hope of an eventual systemic overhaul.

Last updated: 19 Feb 2014 08:50

Five days after violent anti-government incitement in Venezuela led to the deaths of three people, the US State Department issued a press statement declaring: "The allegations [by President Nicolas Maduro] that the United States is helping to organise protestors… is baseless and false. We support human rights and fundamental freedoms - including freedom of expression and of peaceful assembly - in Venezuela as we do in countries around the world."

Of course, US commitment to such freedoms is called into question by its own operating procedures, which have included police beatings of peaceful protesters and the incarceration and torture of whistleblower Chelsea Manning.

Maduro might - meanwhile - be forgiven for associating the US with efforts to overthrow the Venezuelan government given said country's intimate involvement in the 2002 coup d'etat against Maduro's predecessor, the late Hugo Chavez - not to mention its general history of fomenting opposition to less-than-obsequious Latin American regimes.

George Ciccariello-Maher, a professor at Drexel University and the author of "We Created Chavez: A People's History of the Venezuelan Revolution", remarked to me yesterday that, although "there's no reason to think that the US is directly involved in organising or calling these protests… we need to bear in mind that it continues to fund the very same opposition groups that have participated in violent, anti-democratic actions before and that continue to do so".

More:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/02/towards-another-coup-venezuela-201421952658348169.html

[ChangoLoa]

92. No photoshop this time, Judi?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1108&pid=25587

[polly7]

98. Constructing "Venezuela" Protests: a Photo Gallery (fixed)

You'll want to have a look a these.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10360

[Mika]

115. Learn about the secret history of Leopoldo López, the CIA and what they want for Venezuela

Learn about the secret history of Leopoldo López, the CIA and what they want for Venezuela
http://sonsofmalcolm.blogspot.com/2014/02/who-is-leader-leopoldo-lopez-leader-of.html

[EX500rider]

120. Well, somebodies blog..who doesn't believe everything they read in blogs, bravo!

[Mika]

122. The only things believable are the things you believe.

Well done.

[EX500rider]

123. No, blogs are everybodys go to for important information. n/t

[Mika]

125. Any source you don't agree with you don't believe.

Even the books you haven't read....

"Anybody can sell a book they wrote on Amazon...." - EX500rider
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=732263

I get that pedagogy isn't your thing. All the better for remaining on your team w/o doubt.

[EX500rider]

126. Any book claiming Cuba to be a shining example of democracy...

....frankly i don't have to read.

[Mika]

127. Making a claim on a book w/o having read the book. Thanks for making my point.

[EX500rider]

129. I read the blubs and know what the books were about..

...Cuba, shinning beacon of democracy.... I can find some that say the same about N Korea...you need to read those to know if they are BS?

[EX500rider]

130. here you go:

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 08:55 PM - Edit history (1)

North Korea, workers paradise! I know it is because this website says so:

http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm

[EX500rider]

158. "pedagogy isn't your thing. All the better for remaining on your team w/o doubt."

No, I am not a teacher and I don't have a team.

Any of that pertain to the discussion somehow or is more "I'm losing, time to get personal"?

[Pterodactyl]

141. The government of Venezuela would be a joke if lives were not on the line.

[tritsofme]

151. Uncle Hugo would be proud!

Another example of Venezuela's strong thriving democracy!