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Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:33 AM

EXCLUSIVE: Radar Data Suggests Missing Malaysia Plane Flown Deliberately Toward Andamans - Source

Source: Reuters

EXCLUSIVE: Radar data suggests missing Malaysia plane flown deliberately toward Andamans - sources

By Niluksi Koswanage and Siva Govindasamy
KUALA LUMPUR | Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:19am EDT

KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Military radar-tracking evidence suggests a Malaysia Airlines jetliner missing for nearly a week was deliberately flown across the Malay peninsula towards the Andaman Islands, sources familiar with the investigation told Reuters on Friday.

Two sources said an unidentified aircraft that investigators believe was Flight MH370 was following a route between navigational waypoints - indicating it was being flown by someone with aviation training - when it was last plotted on military radar off the country's northwest coast.

The last plot on the military radar's tracking suggested the plane was flying toward India's Andaman Islands, a chain of isles between the Andaman Sea and the Bay of Bengal, they said.

Waypoints are geographic locations, worked out by calculating longitude and latitude, that help pilots navigate along established air corridors.

A third source familiar with the investigation said inquiries were focusing increasingly on the theory that someone who knew how to fly a plane deliberately diverted the flight, with 239 people on board, hundreds of miles off its intended course from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

"What we can say is we are looking at sabotage, with hijack still on the cards," said that source, a senior Malaysian police official.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2D0DG20140314

104 replies, 18539 views

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Reply EXCLUSIVE: Radar Data Suggests Missing Malaysia Plane Flown Deliberately Toward Andamans - Source (Original post)
Hissyspit Mar 2014 OP
jtuck004 Mar 2014 #1
bigdarryl Mar 2014 #8
jtuck004 Mar 2014 #14
kristopher Mar 2014 #22
jtuck004 Mar 2014 #29
kristopher Mar 2014 #34
jtuck004 Mar 2014 #37
kristopher Mar 2014 #40
jtuck004 Mar 2014 #41
kristopher Mar 2014 #42
BlueStreak Mar 2014 #95
The Stranger Mar 2014 #79
Demeter Mar 2014 #2
JI7 Mar 2014 #3
Cha Mar 2014 #5
Nanjing to Seoul Mar 2014 #12
Ruby the Liberal Mar 2014 #26
Nanjing to Seoul Mar 2014 #31
Ruby the Liberal Mar 2014 #33
AngryAmish Mar 2014 #36
Nanjing to Seoul Mar 2014 #45
KittyWampus Mar 2014 #53
eggplant Mar 2014 #68
undeterred Mar 2014 #63
JackRiddler Mar 2014 #83
truth2power Mar 2014 #65
Renew Deal Mar 2014 #66
Beachwood Mar 2014 #27
Recursion Mar 2014 #4
JI7 Mar 2014 #6
Recursion Mar 2014 #9
JI7 Mar 2014 #7
DFW Mar 2014 #10
kristopher Mar 2014 #13
DFW Mar 2014 #17
bitchkitty Mar 2014 #25
kristopher Mar 2014 #28
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #46
kristopher Mar 2014 #49
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #51
kristopher Mar 2014 #57
AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #74
pangaia Mar 2014 #39
ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #85
pangaia Mar 2014 #94
csziggy Mar 2014 #70
DFW Mar 2014 #86
csziggy Mar 2014 #88
DFW Mar 2014 #90
csziggy Mar 2014 #91
avebury Mar 2014 #99
Nanjing to Seoul Mar 2014 #11
liberal N proud Mar 2014 #15
marions ghost Mar 2014 #24
jakeXT Mar 2014 #16
Sunlei Mar 2014 #32
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #48
Sunlei Mar 2014 #54
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #56
Sunlei Mar 2014 #71
AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #72
Sunlei Mar 2014 #89
Helen Borg Mar 2014 #18
Cooley Hurd Mar 2014 #19
DeSwiss Mar 2014 #20
randome Mar 2014 #21
OldRedneck Mar 2014 #23
politicman Mar 2014 #30
jsr Mar 2014 #35
politicman Mar 2014 #44
Recursion Mar 2014 #60
djean111 Mar 2014 #102
BlueStreak Mar 2014 #80
LuckyLib Mar 2014 #84
BlueStreak Mar 2014 #87
LuckyLib Mar 2014 #93
bigworld Mar 2014 #38
Recursion Mar 2014 #61
fujiyama Mar 2014 #96
Myrina Mar 2014 #43
B2G Mar 2014 #47
cbdo2007 Mar 2014 #50
B2G Mar 2014 #52
cbdo2007 Mar 2014 #59
B2G Mar 2014 #64
cbdo2007 Mar 2014 #67
B2G Mar 2014 #69
cbdo2007 Mar 2014 #81
B2G Mar 2014 #82
B2G Mar 2014 #97
cbdo2007 Mar 2014 #100
Sunlei Mar 2014 #55
csziggy Mar 2014 #73
Sunlei Mar 2014 #78
alsame Mar 2014 #58
randome Mar 2014 #62
AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #75
Gin Mar 2014 #76
RantinRavin Mar 2014 #77
countryjake Mar 2014 #92
aegean66 Mar 2014 #98
yourout Mar 2014 #101
aegean66 Mar 2014 #103
yourout Mar 2014 #104

Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:45 AM

1. I am beginning to take anything that comes out of Malaysia with a whole salt shaker.

 


It's almost as if they wanted to come up with a better story than anyone else.

They might be right, but it sure seems like every time they speak the road to towards progress gets little longer...

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:40 AM

8. No Shit they are some DUMB FUCKS!!!! investigating this plane

 

Looks like they don't have the intelligence like we do for this type of investigation.

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Response to bigdarryl (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 06:51 AM

14. I am sure they have it, and I think there are tons of pressures from different places,

 

having to work with people that perhaps aren't friendly, cultural stuff, and of course the filters we are fed stuff through...still.

Hauling the Vietnamese Navy out and having them search all over the place until they get sick of it and stand down until they get better info, hear them say that the pings to a satellite don't exist, which is pretty easy to prove or disprove, and now be talking about pirates because they have an unknown radar contact that they assume was the plane sounds like they are reaching. I personally think it's a Japanese pilot that's been hiding out since WWII, but they didn't ask me.

They really need a PR person, (not a tank commander or person who used to carry a rifle) who might be experienced in handing out info, being sensitive to grieving families and other, all while the Chinese government is breathing down their necks. Tough job, but I don't think too much to ask in return for 200 plus lives.




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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:24 AM

22. How would authorities behave if valuable secret information leaked to the press?

Japanese pilot aside, I'm putting you in charge of the investigation.
You have a radar contact that tells you something sinister is going on - the perpetrators may or may not know about it.
You have a data stream with limited content allowing you to track the bird in the air that the perpetrators don't seem to know about.

How do you manage your resources?

What do you do in the event one or both of these items leak to the press?

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Response to kristopher (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:03 AM

29. If we are talking about this flight, ALL we have is 2 radar contacts that may or may not

 

be the plane, the transponder's last ping at 1:20ish, and a couple of pings to a satellite from their running engines over a 4 hour period. The radar contacts are not further identified as anything but a blip in one place and one in another. Because that's all they have, and, they said, a "belief" that it must be the plane. Almost like a Creationist vs Evolutionary Science argument going on between people who have data and those who want things to be as they believe.

While it is possible that they have some magic military secret that lets their radar see things other people's radar can't, that leads me down the path of making shit up, and this isn't the time for that.

As well, and afaik there is NO information that leads to ANYTHING nefarious here, as yet, other than conjecture, much of which changes day by day.

Regardless, I would use my resources, and any others I can tap, to follow the data I know to be as accurate as I can be sure of.

It is interesting. Without much justification we are sending resources to the Indian Ocean, so I suspect we have reason to think we should commit those expensive resources there instead of somewhere else. We know the engines communicated for 4 hours, and perhaps they have some info we are not privy to,

As far as "How would authorities behave if valuable secret information leaked to the press?" <- You are not seriously asking that on DU I swear I already hear Snowden groupies on both sides scratching in the walls even though that's a different subject...

Sorry, I digress.

How much more valuable is my secret information than finding them? Do I think my country will be invaded because I let go of a satellite photo? Then we find a way to divulge it to an ally who says it is their info, or some other misdirection. There are ways.

Anyway, we wait...

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:23 AM

34. Well,

I'd say that you are engaging in a kind of restricted thinking that can have disastrous consequences. Proper analysis requires review of all possible scenarios in order to establish a pecking order of probabilities.
Sure you start with the most probable being the aircraft destroyed in flight. But that ended when the military radar picked up a large, unidentified aircraft in their flight space. They didn't just ignore the damned thing since finding targets like that are EXACTLY their reason for existing. And don't forget there was already a notice out that a commercial passenger jet was missing.

They would have attempted to contact the aircraft while simultaneously notifying a preset list of people assigned responsibility for evaluating the situation and responding. Those people gather and are fed the best data available; including constant communications with higher and lower elements of their command structure as well as real time coordination with appropriate international agencies.

And, by design, you are not going to see any of that happening. Why in the world do you think the international press would be automatically given access to crucial information that would be vital to their efforts to track that aircraft.

Deliberate confusion and obfuscation of what actual tools are available to the mission would the standard approach to public relations. I don't know if they established contact or if they allowed the aircraft to go on its way because they had the Mx pinger to track it with; but that specific really doesn't affect the way this would be handled in the public arena unless the people who committed the act wanted the public brought into the picture.

It has been a while, but I have sat on that side of the table. They are focused on the mission of finding and hopefully rescuing the passengers and they will do whatever it takes to accomplish that. Misleading the public is the least of their concerns.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:36 AM

37. Never said ignore it, those are your words. Said take it for what it is until you know more.

 

And if they were that damn interested in a contact they would have sent assets from their Army, Navy, or Air Force (they have all 3) to check it out, and apparently they didn't.

And you don't know what Malaysia would have done - that might have happened here, but it may happen more than this over there with all the air traffic.

I do know their priorities may not be what ours would be, or what we would like to think theirs might be.

"Why in the world do you think the international press would be automatically given access to crucial information that would be vital to their efforts to track that aircraft"

Why wouldn't they? Is there some big secret? Self-interested people playing too many games with other people's lives?

Too much magical thinking. I leave fantasy to someone else and work on the problem.

cya

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:44 AM

40. They would have identified it - if that required a fly-by for a visual, they would have done that.

But I doubt it would have required too much confirmation since they'd know a great deal by it's location and the radar signature.

You say "apparently they didn't".

And I say again, put yourself in the shoes of commanders that already know they have a hostage situation.

You can believe this or not, but I used to develop procedures, write checklists and train people to handle aircraft hijackings and other emergency actions.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #40)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:53 AM

41. They do not know they have a hostage situation. Back to making shit up again.

 


The airline knew the plane went off secondary radar. It's not even clear the military was brought into this for hours afterwards.

Ground radar would just paint an object. The rest is assumptions with no other contact or info. And there is nothing to tell us how good they are with it, how good the techs are, lots of other variables being assumed to be just like the good ol' USA. Might not be.

With all your experience maybe they should have had your directions for this. Or maybe they did.

In any event it sound like you have it figured out. Bye.



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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:00 AM

42. Sure jtuck004.

Like I said, believe what makes you comfortable. I understand; it's an anonymous forum and it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. That's perfectly reasonable.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:06 PM

95. If JTuck doesn't believe in a theory made of whole cloth, how is that "disastrous"

 

If JTuck and I were in charge of the investigations and we refused to allow any resources to explore all reasonable leads, yes, that could be bad. I can't speak for JTuck, but let me assure you I am not in charge of anything. My cat's don't even get out of my way when I am walking.

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Response to bigdarryl (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:13 PM

79. Complete bullshit.

This is a bizarre set of circumstances, and everyone in aviation has said so, including Sullenberger.

They are presented with a mystery other countries have not been presented with.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:48 AM

2. Oh, I'm sure the NSA knows all about it

 

and as soon as they've canned through there yotta bytes of illegal wiretaps, they will let us know.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:12 AM

3. map

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:25 AM

5. thanks for the map.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 06:22 AM

12. Kampchea? Old map. And Timor is still part of Indonesia on this map. :)

 

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:50 AM

26. Did the Andaman islands move?

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Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:10 AM

31. islands can't move. take it from a geography professor here. :)

 

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:21 AM

33. Okay, so moot point?

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:33 AM

36. Islands are moving constantly.

 

Plate tectonics?


Boy, am I a wise ass.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #36)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:31 AM

45. yes you are. :)

 

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #45)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:56 AM

53. as the daughter of a retired earth science teacher > I give this subthread

 

a gold star!

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #53)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:11 AM

68. :-)



It starts at the 6:20 mark.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:25 AM

63. The island on LOST moved.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:45 PM

83. Islands move all the time, take it from a geologist.

 

(I'm not, but I know it too.)

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Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:40 AM

65. Thanks, Ruby. Short and to the point..

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Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:45 AM

66. lol

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:57 AM

27. Much appreciated that you added this map

 

I would rather see an informative map than read through the dozens of cynical comments from all our armchair experts DU now seems to have following this story.

Thank you!

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:19 AM

4. *cough* LTTE *cough*

Just sayin'...

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Response to Recursion (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:29 AM

6. there were about 5 indians on the plane, do you know

anything about those passengers ? if indian media is showing anything on them ?

i'm guessing the US and other govts are doing background checks on all the passengers to see if they had any experience or interest in flying.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:41 AM

9. No idea. Do you know their names?

You could tell their community and probably religion from that. Andaman & Nicobar have something of a separatist movement.

So far the media here is just running Reuters and AP stories, as far as I've seen, but the Andaman angle pretty much just hit the wire.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:37 AM

7. Andaman and Nicobar Islands a potential terror hub: Home Ministry

this is from last month. the current situation may have nothing to do with it but thought it was interesting.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/andaman-and-nicobar-islands-a-potential-terror-hub-home-ministry/

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:55 AM

10. You can't land a 777 just anywhere (asuming a landing was planned in the first place)

Unless whoever it was that was in charge of the plane knew how to do an emergency water landing, I'd be surprised if there were a mile-long landing strip in the Andamans capable of handling a 777, unless there is some kind of military installation there with such a strip.

It still amazes me that in this day a 777 can take off and head somewhere without being discovered for a week.

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 06:49 AM

13. yeah, it isn't like smugglers use airplanes or anything...

Seriously, that region had a lot of military runways set up during WW2 and drug trafficking is proof that evading authorities isn't as difficult as we wish it were.

I don't think a runway is an insurmountable issue by any means. I also don't think it's prudent to rule out the idea that they have a larger plan involving an intact, large commercial jetliner. And if they do they will have a place to refuel it and move it to a safer location in order to hide it - maybe even in plain sight.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:09 AM

17. A runway for a DC-3 ain't the same as for a B-777

You can land a DC-3 almost anywhere. It's another thing entirely to maintain a runway long enough for a 777 to land safely (and again another thing to store enough fuel to get it off somewhere again, and that's assuming you have a pilot who knows how to do it).

Plus, a 777 isn't easy to "hide," even in plain sight. It's not like Boeing made 10,000 of them. You can't just repaint it and put on phony codes like a Cessna, and figure no one will notice. If you want to steal a car to move contraband around, you steal a Chevy, not a Rolls Royce.

I don't even want to think what any hijackers' plans might be for 200+ passengers who will only be a burden to any plans they might have.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:49 AM

25. Actually, it's very insurmountable.

It's a 777, not a little plane by any means. You need a runway to land a 777. I'm certainly no aviation expert, but I know that much.

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #25)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:00 AM

28. No one said you don't need a "runway".

But finding a suitable landing site isn't nearly as difficult as you apparently think it is. Especially with lots of time to plan, plenty of funding, and conducting operations in an area with thousands of small islands (many with the remnants of old military runways already in place).

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Response to kristopher (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:31 AM

46. So why steal one with people on board?

around the world there are plenty of airworthy widebodies sitting unused in hangars or whatever... Many of them have very little to no security...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #46)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:36 AM

49. That's a good question.

The procedures for an unauthorized takeoff (presuming you got the aircraft fueled somehow) require shooting out the tires. Under no circumstances would it be allowed to take off.

If it somehow managed to take off, defense fighters would be on it like stink on week old fish; it would have no way to run.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #49)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:45 AM

51. Yeah, the fuel is the big issue

It's easier than you think in developing countries, especially with failed airlines who ended up bankrupt with no means or interest retrieving their planes from far-away airports...There have been numerous stories over the years of unauthoried pilots or takeoffs in Africa...The biggest jet I've ever heard confirmed as stolen was a B727...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #51)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:07 AM

57. Most planes like that are stripped down pretty quickly

Given demand I can't imagine there are a lot of perfectly good planes in mothballs - especially from bankruptcy where they'll have creditors scrapping them if noting else.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #46)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:39 AM

74. Hostages can be valuable.

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:43 AM

39. There is at least one airport with a plenty long enough runway.

Veer Savarkar International Airport,
RWY 4/22 is 10, 749'
That would do it.

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Response to pangaia (Reply #39)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:56 PM

85. I'm guessing the Indian Navy would notice a 777 landing there.

...

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Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Reply #85)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 06:31 PM

94. One would think.

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:30 AM

70. The Port Blair Airport seems to have a 10,794 ft runway

According to rough measurements I took on Google Earth.

Ah - here is more info

Veer Savarkar Airport,[4][5] commonly known as Port Blair Airport (IATA: IXZ, ICAO: VOPB), is an airport located 2 km (1.2 mi) south of Port Blair and is the main airport of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands of India. It is named after the Indian freedom fighter Vinayak Damodar Savarkar. It operates as a civil enclave, sharing airside facilities with INS Utkrosh of the Indian Navy.

<SNIP>

The airport has a single runway of 3,290 m (10,794 ft) in length, accommodating most narrow-body aircraft, that includes Airbus A320, Airbus A321, Boeing 737, which regularly serve Veer Savarkar airport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vir_Savarkar_Airport


In another discussion, I think I read that the 777 needs about 11,000 to take off, so this one may be sufficient.

ETA - depending on which model this 777 is, it could take off from a shorter runway - various models need between 8,000 and 11,100 feet at sea level. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777#Specifications

If it was headed to the Andaman Islands as a destination, that would be awkward unless the Indian Navy was involved.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #70)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:19 PM

86. And it's hard to figure how the Indian Navy would have kept it quiet

Plus not only would the runway have to be long enough, but it would also have to have been in good repair.

My guess is that for some as yet unknown reason, the plane went down at sea SOMEWHERE, and we'll find remnants of it floating somewhere far away from the crash site and wonder for years what happened.

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Response to DFW (Reply #86)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 03:56 PM

88. One guy on CNN keeps claiming that this jet has particularly quiet engines

And that the plane could have landed and taken off without the people in the houses along the runway from taking any notice.

Without some extraordinary event such as might be seen in a Clive Cussler adventure novel, I can't see this happening.

What I don't understand is if the things claimed today - that the plane followed a series or waypoints and changed direction more than once - are true, then there had to have been a live pilot. But I suspect the understanding of waypoints is incorrect.

Although the points where the waypoints are located are not in a straight line, don't they just broadcast signals to be used as location markers and radar beacons? The plane could have just flown by those points, been picked up by their radar, but without a live pilot at the helm.

I don't like thinking this, but I think something happened to disable the pilots, disable the various systems in a cascade event, and an essentially dead plane flew out across the Indian Ocean until it crashed into the sea. We may never know what happened and the conspiracy theorists will write speculation about it for years.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #88)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:13 PM

90. Unfortunately, that sounds very plausible

If something went drastically wrong in the cockpit and there was no way for anyone to communicate with the outside world, the cockpit doors being locked from the inside, who knows? I fly in 777s all the time, but I know no more about what to do in an emergency than I would if I were in the Space Shuttle. For all we know the plane was on some kind of automatic pilot when some kind of gas leak put everyone to sleep, some of the crew tried to fool with the system before they nodded off, and put it on a course to nowhere.

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Response to DFW (Reply #90)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:18 PM

91. That's my favorite theory at the moment

But we will probably never know.

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 16, 2014, 07:26 AM

99. Do you remember that there have been 2

commercial jets in the US that recently managed to land at the wrong airports where landing strip was potentially an issue for taking off again?

Hypothetically, a jet might be able to land some place but not be able to take off again if the landing strip was not long enough to allow a safe take-off.

Who knows where the plane went and what happened to the people on board. There is just not enough information to make any informed conclusions. Maybe there are some people somewhere who know more then we do and maybe they are not revealing what they know because to do so might reveal more information then they are prepared to reveal (for example how they know what they know). We may or may not ever learn what happened and have to learn to live with the possibility.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 06:21 AM

11. Maybe it was hijacked to Phuket, since that's on the Andaman Sea.

 

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 06:58 AM

15. Squirrel

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:35 AM

24. +++

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:04 AM

16. Pic from Singapore Today

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Response to jakeXT (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:19 AM

32. the flight could have continued to china too? plenty of places there to land or crash?

China is the only country that released those pictures with large pieces of sea wreckage, and then said their science division released those pictures 'by mistake'. China also was the only country with a 'anti-gov.' group that claimed they were responsible.

I still think the plane broke-up on the flight path, probably an accident and hasn't been found yet. Those poor families. IMO, a very slight chance China has the plane (and people?) or knows exactly what happened due to Chinese domestic unrest.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:36 AM

48. I saw in another story that the geospatial folks who released that photo

were having thier budgets heavily slashed and with the whole world following the story, I think they saw an opportunity to "justify" themselves as essential...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #48)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:58 AM

54. chinas "geospatial folks"? fake pictures like that would be the way to have their agency closed.

I thought it was very odd, Chinese gov just said something like, 'wrong pictures', they didn't say their science group faked anything.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #54)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:01 AM

56. not fake photos...

just photos that 1. They weren't officially authorised to release to the press and 2. Did nothing to help the investigation...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #56)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:35 AM

71. very odd, the china gov statement about the 'photos', odd the photos that showed wreckage, & odd

nothing was found at that location. How do we know they weren't faked photos? especially given, the Chinese gov statement their science division wasn't supposed to release them?

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #71)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:37 AM

72. Those photos could be anything.

Industrial garbage. Broken up ship. Who knows what.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #72)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:02 PM

89. The searchers who went over that area earlier (by air) said there was nothing there.

Search went back due to those pictures (3 very large pieces), seas shallow there, still nothing.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:10 AM

18. Perhaps it's air pirates.

If the plane was just taken, I wonder what happened to the people on board.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:13 AM

19. I hope satellites are looking at abandoned air bases that ring the Indian Ocean...

 

Highly unlikely but you just never know.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:16 AM

20. Unh-huh.

 

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:19 AM

21. All the potential flight paths put together.

 



Sorry.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:07 AM

30. my theory

 

Ok so let me get this straight:

First Malaysia says the plane did a U-turn and flew an hour towards the Malaca Straight.
Then they denied that they ever made that claim.

Then China releases satellite images of debris in the original flight path, but China then say the images were released by mistake and they suggest nothing.

Then the U.S chimes in and say that they have multiple pings from the plane which suggests that it flew for 4 hours in the direction of the Indian ocean. U.S suggests the plane was commandeered or hijacked for some later nefarious purpose.

Now Malaysia says that they have radar signals of the plane flying to the Andamas Islands which is in the direct opposite direction that the U.S says it pinged from.


Really, these are not some backward nations, they have organisational and technical ability, yet the endlessamount of contradicting stories from each of these nations to me looks like a co-ordinated coverup of some sort.


My theory is that the Satellite images from China showing debris are the truth. I think that someone shot down the plane, and have been complicating and mis-directing the investigation to allow enough time to clean up the debris, and eventually they will say they were unable to locate the plane and it will stay a mystery.
I think all these countries are in on this conspiracy because I think North Korea shot it down and these countries don't want a huge crisis by having to respond if the public finds out.

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Response to politicman (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:26 AM

35. How did North Korea shoot it down?

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Response to jsr (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:05 AM

44. no idea.

 

just wanted to float a stupid theory out there so that I could fit in with everyone else out there.

I am allowed to do this, yeah?

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Response to politicman (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:16 AM

60. The complete run-around on the info makes me hope they're negotiating with someone...

... and are trying (badly) to keep it a secret. It's a crazy hope, maybe, but still.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #60)

Sun Mar 16, 2014, 10:11 AM

102. That is my thought (and hope), too.

 

I would just like to add that the press has no "right" to any information, especially if the information would complicate things. And I am puzzled by the weirdness of some getting angry about others' theories - so what? None of us is deciding to allocate resources towards the search in any way. Unless DU is in a sort of Ender's game deal, all this is, is conjecture.

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Response to politicman (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:16 PM

80. In addition,

 

We have a different Chinese report that puts it the South China sea. And the report for the oil worker that the things was on fire, yet supposedly kept flying for another 4 hours.

It really stretches the imagination that all these government agencies would be so inept. And it stretches the imagination that there wasn't more accurate tracking of the aircraft.

That does make a "shot down by China or somebody, followed by massive disinformation / cover-up campaign" at least make some sense. But don't underestimate the ineptitude of governmental agencies from that part of the world. That is a whole different culture They are not accustomed to much accountability.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #80)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:47 PM

84. Exactly. The incompetence of both military and

government agencies in many developing countries is huge.
" don't underestimate the ineptitude of governmental agencies from that part of the world. That is a whole different culture They are not accustomed to much accountability." Having lived in several such settings, where even the postal service is corrupt, I have no faith in Malaysian investigators.

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Response to LuckyLib (Reply #84)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:41 PM

87. And it isn't as if our government and military are all that either

 

The NSA has loads of information, but only the information they want that helps them accomplish their goals, whatever thy might be. (We don't really even know what their goals are because it is all secret.)

They aren't omniscient. But there are very good at spying to find out the stuff they want to find out. One should not assume they would have information about this event, even by accident.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #87)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:57 PM

93. So true. Our gov't is corrupt on a whole different scale.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:40 AM

38. Surprised that the Tamils haven't been fingered yet

They've proven surprisingly creative and brutal in their terror.

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Response to bigworld (Reply #38)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:17 AM

61. Hey, I did in post #4!

Credit where it's due...

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Response to bigworld (Reply #38)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:09 PM

96. How does the Sri Lankan conflict figure into this?

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:01 AM

43. WTF

.... is all I got for this.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:34 AM

47. I believe this was a definitely a hijacking

 

Look at the countires within range on 7 hours of fuel.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:39 AM

50. If it was anywhere on land in that region, they would have found it by now....

there are hundreds of people scouring satellite data all day every day looking for this plane. There is no way it landed somewhere easily visible, and an airplane shape stands out pretty easily, so I'm still pretty sure it's in the indian ocean.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #50)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 09:45 AM

52. Explain to me how statellite data is going to help

 

find a plane that's flying the normal route to the Middle East to an airport that knows it's coming. To, Iran, let's say.

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Response to B2G (Reply #52)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:10 AM

59. It would have been pcked up on radar long before it got to Iran....or India...or Saudi Arabia.

There are very few places in the world where we don't have some type of military/radar presence. They may have been *trying* to do that, but apparently didn't make it.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #59)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:27 AM

64. The fact that they are searching

 

jungles in India and the middle of the Indian Ocean indicate it could have gotten to those areas without being picked up on rardar.

And if it made it to India without being detected, it wouldn't be much further to Pakistan.

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Response to B2G (Reply #64)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:10 AM

67. Right....the Indian Ocean, just like I said. Thanks for confirming.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #67)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:12 AM

69. Would you be so kind as to explain it to me here?

 

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Response to B2G (Reply #69)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:18 PM

81. No need. 20 people already explained it to you there and it's not sinking in for you.

Not sure there's any other ways I could say what they all already said to get you to understand it so I'll just go on my way and just roll my eyes when they find the plane in the Indian Ocean in another couple of days.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #81)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:24 PM

82. No one has discounted the possibility on that thread

 

So I'll go my way as well.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #81)

Sat Mar 15, 2014, 09:40 AM

97. Breaking news, just for you.

 

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak said Saturday that communications on a Malaysia Airlines flight missing since last Saturday were disabled due to "deliberate action by someone on the plane" and that the last known signal from the airliner came more than seven hours after takeoff.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/15/malaysia-airlines-flight-missing/6451477/

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Response to B2G (Reply #97)

Sun Mar 16, 2014, 08:58 AM

100. LOL - well if we're picking and choosing from new stories...

This is from the main article on CNN today:

That last communication, Najib said, was in one of two possible traffic corridors shown on a map released to the press. A northern arc stretches from the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan to northern Thailand, and a southern arc spans from Indonesia to the southern Indian Ocean.

"Due to the type of satellite data, we are unable to confirm the precise location of the plane when it last made contact with the satellite," Najib said.

Because the northern parts of the traffic corridor include some tightly guarded airspace over India, Pakistan, and even some U.S. installations in Afghanistan, U.S. authorities believe it more likely the aircraft crashed into waters outside of the reach of radar south of India, a U.S. official told CNN. If it had flown farther north, it's likely it would have been detected by radar.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/16/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:00 AM

55. how many of this type of plane are there?

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #55)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:38 AM

73. Boeing 777-200? 85 still in operation (three crashed of the 88 delivered)

Boeing 777 - there have been 1164 delivered, but I'm not sure how many are still in use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777#Orders_and_deliveries

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Response to csziggy (Reply #73)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:10 PM

78. 85,so on the slight chance the plane was 'stolen' & landed it could be somewhere those 85 are.

I still think this was a horrible accident and they haven't found the wreckage yet. But you never know until wreckage is discovered.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:09 AM

58. India scours uninhabited jungle islands

India scours uninhabited jungle islands for lost Malaysian jetliner

PORT BLAIR, India (Reuters) - Indian aircraft combed Andaman and Nicobar, made up of more than 500 mostly uninhabited islands, for signs of a missing Malaysia Airlines jetliner that evidence suggests was last headed towards the heavily forested archipelago.

<snip>

The Indian Navy has deployed two Dornier planes to fly across the island chain, a total area of 720 km, Indian military spokesman Harmeet Singh said in the state capital, Port Blair. So far the planes, and a helicopter searching the coast, had found nothing.

"This operation is like finding a needle in a haystack," said Singh, who is the spokesman for joint air force, navy and army command in the Andaman and Nicobar islands.

The Defense Ministry said the Eastern Naval Command would also search across a new area measuring 15 km by 600 km along the Chennai coast in the Bay of Bengal.

https://news.yahoo.com/india-scours-uninhabited-jungle-islands-lost-malaysian-jetliner-133601345--sector.html

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 10:18 AM

62. It's Nazis.

 


[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #62)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:42 AM

75. The most plausible explanation I've heard all day.

WE COME IN PEACE

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:57 AM

76. My theories are.....the captain with the simulator classes inadvertently trained the hijacker on

This plane and what it has......and....if we have unmanned drones, that are remotely controlled, why couldn't this plane be overridden and controlled remotely....even a landing?

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Response to Gin (Reply #76)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:08 PM

77. Because the 777

Doesn't have the receiver or mechanisms to allow remote control.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:05 PM

92. Fly, Colton, Fly!

Has anyone checked to see if the Barefoot Bandit is still in prison?

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Sat Mar 15, 2014, 11:44 PM

98. They went to Maldives

It seems fairly obvious to me.

The plane deliberately shut down communications of both transponders and radio.
Given the know how required to do this, the pilot must have done it either by himself or been coerced.
Engine gave out pings for at least four hours
The plane last location was tracked over the island of Pulau Perak in Malacca Strait
This puts it on a course directly to the Maldives (arguably a terrorist haven)
Maldives has 2000+ islands with lots of disused airstrips
The plane followed established way point guided routes (pilot training essential for this)
If the plane was hijacked it would be unlikely they'd have the knowledge of these way point routes.

Drowning in a seas of theories, this theory seems most likely, but have not heard one mention of Maldives?



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Response to aegean66 (Reply #98)

Sun Mar 16, 2014, 09:48 AM

101. One part of this does not make sense....if you are hijacking a plane why would you follow....

waypoints and established traffic routes where there would likely be more easily spotted by radar instead of GPS direct.

Most if not all modern planes also have GPS capability and use it to follow established routes.

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Response to yourout (Reply #101)

Mon Mar 17, 2014, 03:30 AM

103. So that Military radar did not suspect.

Military would just assume another passenger flight and nothing unusual!

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Response to aegean66 (Reply #103)

Mon Mar 17, 2014, 08:19 AM

104. Good point...

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