Russia and west on collision course over Ukraine as talks fail in London

[dipsydoodle]

Source: Guardian

The Ukraine crisis has entered a new and more dangerous phase after 11th-hour talks in London between the US secretary of state, John Kerry, and his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, broke up without resolving the standoff.

The diplomatic failure sets Russia on a collision course with the west, with Moscow ordering further military deployments on Friday and a contentious referendum in Russian-dominated Crimea set to go ahead as planned on Sunday.

The referendum, which will almost certainly result in a vote in favour of breaking away from Ukraine and union with Russia, will trigger the imposition of sanctions by the west on Monday.

During five hours of talks, Kerry pushed Lavrov to postpone the referendum. He challenged him over sudden Russian troop movements along the Ukrainian border over the past few days. But Lavrov offered nothing in the way of a concession that would have helped reduce tensions.

Lavrov, at a press conference at the talks, insisted the referendum would go ahead as planned. The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, "will respect the will of the Crimean people", Lavrov said.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/14/russia-west-collision-course-ukraine-talks-fail-london

[2banon]

1. This report seems to have quite a different tone to Kerry's press briefing.. interesting.

I listened to Kerry's briefing, I haven't listened to Lavrov's briefing. I wonder if that's available on line?

[dipsydoodle]

2. In the UK we had both live on TV news.

Lavrov's followed by Kerry's.

Probably pop up on Youtube later today.

[2banon]

3. interesting, what was your sense of the Lavrov vs Kerry's Pressers?

Did it line up to your ear? Or was Lavrov's briefing well reflected in this report?

[dipsydoodle]

4. Can't really answer that.

I'd already concluded that the meeting would be a complete waste of time with both more or sticking to scripts which neither were in a position to move away from. As such all questions were as lame as the meeting.....same old, same old.

[2banon]

5. There's the script and there's the tone..

I did a bit of reading the tea leaves with Kerry's briefing.... i guess it's countdown...

[Catherina]

7. I can't find it online. Here's what I've found so far

Bad body language



I'm taking the following comments from my twitter feed

- The more I think about it and the more I find the Falkland analogy #Lavrov made today is the most damaging of all to West...

- One of the best parts of #Lavrov speech was him saying #Crimea is an example of law and order.Kidnappings and journos harassment don't count

[Catherina]

8. Video of presser: Lavrov: If Kosovo is a special case then Crimea is also

Lavrov: If Kosovo is a special case then Crimea is also

&noredirect=1

[dipsydoodle]

10. But that's an RT video so it must be a lie.

[Catherina]

14. If the state-subservient Western media was doing its job

we wouldn't need RT would we?

I'm glad we have them. Our media has a long track record of lying us into wars and then whitewashing the results. It's important to have the other side of the story, especially with that long record.

[dipsydoodle]

15. We had it live on tv news

BBC and Sky.

[sofa king]

6. How crazy is this?

I cannot help noting that this is the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. That war was effectively started when a net of diplomatic agreements drove nations relentlessly toward war.

Now here, 99 years and change later, we have a situation where two nuclear powers have guaranteed the safety of a third in return for their voluntary disarmament, and then one of them appears to have betrayed the agreement.

Now what in the hell is the world supposed to do? In the first part of this millennium we have one pissant despotic nation get a free pass after it pops off a nuke, one former nuclear aspirant rolled over under false pretenses, and now one former nuclear power betrayed by its own guarantors.

What nation does not need a fistful of nukes now?

[red dog 1]

9. The Russian Foreign Ministry issued a statement that hinted..

(From the OP)
..that Russian forces could intervene in EASTERN Ukraine to protect Russians there.

"Russia recognizes it's responsibility for the lives of countrymen and fellow citizens in Ukraine and reserves the right to take people under it's protection," the statement said.


This is not just about Putin, or Russia, gearing up for war in the Ukraine.
"China's Top Envoy To Germany Has Warned the West Against Punishing Russia with Sanctions"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014754898/

[Xithras]

11. If Putin had a brain...

...he'd arm the hell out of the Crimeans (including long range missile systems) and pull his troops out. If they want their independence, let them fight for it the old fashioned way. If they win their independence, THEN they can approach Russia about joining up with them.

We don't need a second Crimean War entangling the worlds powers. But if Ukraine wants to fight the Crimeans and turn it into a civil war, the rest of the world should just back off and let them shoot at each other.

[JoeyT]

12. At which point the US would give the

Ukraine every weapon system they could think of and the streets would run with blood in yet another stupid proxy war. We've had enough of those already.

[Xithras]

13. Maybe.

But it's the best solution I can come up with to reconcile my two beliefs: 1) The rest of the world (including Russia) needs to butt out. 2) The right of self-determination means that the crimes of the past, and the paper treaties which blessed them, that made Crimea part of Ukraine should not be honored if the Crimeans really don't want to be a part of that country. The Crimeans have made it consistently clear that they never wanted to be a part of Ukraine, but have been threatened repeatedly with war and destruction if they didn't sit down, shut up, and behave (first by the Soviets, then by the Ukrainians when they still had nukes, and now by the entire western world).

There are very few instances in which I support war, but I believe that all people have the right to fight and kill to end their own subjugation. Nobody ever asked Crimea if they wanted to be a part of Ukraine, but they have consistently made it clear for decades that they don't. The Crimeans themselves have a right to put an end to their situation.