Malaysian Officials have concluded missing flight #MH370 was hijacked and steered off course

[Renew Deal]

Last edited Sat Mar 15, 2014, 02:32 AM - Edit history (9)

Source: Sky News, Washington Post, Others

Original source: https://twitter.com/9NewsAUS/status/444686237182353408

New Source:
Missing Malaysia Plane Was Hijacked

A Malaysian government official says investigators have concluded the missing Malaysia Airlines plane was hijacked.

The official said no motive has been established and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken, but he said hijacking was "conclusive".

Malaysia's prime minister is due to give a news conference at around 5am UK time.

Earlier, a source close to the investigation said satellite pulses picked up from flight MH370 show it may have been flying off-course for several hours before running out of fuel over the Indian Ocean.

Analysis of military radar tracking and pulses detected by satellites has provided two different theories as to what may have happened to the plane, the unnamed source said.
<snip>

“It’s looking less and less like an accident,” said a U.S. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak publicly. “It’s looking more like a criminal event.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/missing-malaysian-plane-may-have-flown-up-to-four-hours-us-officials-say/2014/03/14/62c9f05c-ab64-11e3-af5f-4c56b834c4bf_story.html

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1226362/missing-malaysia-plane-was-hijacked

---

News conference at 1:30AM EDT live video:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/live-video/2
http://www.livestation.com/reuters

Another source: http://english.astroawani.com/videos/live

________________________________________________________________________

Press conference with Malaysian PM

Radar data took aircraft to an area north of the straights of Malacca. Corroborated with international authorities.

Investigation team includes FAA, NTSB, Malaysian authorities, others.

"High degree of certainty that ACAS was disabled just before aircraft reached east coast of Malaysia peninsula."

"Transponder switched off."

Malaysia air force data believed, but not confirmed turned back "westerly" over Malaysia before turning NW.

"Consistent with deliberate action by someone on the plane."

Based on broad satellite data "we can confirm that radar data was MH370."

Agencies working separately on the same data concur.

"Last confirmed comms between plane and data was at 8:11AM Malaysian time."

"Cannot confirm precise location of plane where it made contact w/ satellite."

Have determined that the last communication w/ satellite either near Northern Kazakhstan or Turkmenistan or Indonesia to S. Indian Ocean."

"We are still investigating all possibilities"

New satellite info has significant impact over search and rescue. Ending search in S. China sea.

Working w/ relative countries. Involves many countries based on new information.

"We hope this new information brings us one step closer to finding the plane."

[Warpy]

1. Then they need to start searching airports and straight, level highways

or the bush at the ends of runways that were too short.

I said the first day it might be a good idea to park a satellite or two over the 'stans and start searching there.

This just gets weirder and weirder. I doubt anyone on that plane, passengers and cabin crew, is alive. Not knowing has to be killing their families, though.

[Renew Deal]

2. Search where?

Based on what I've seen it could be anywhere from India to Australia

[Bjorn Against]

4. If the plane was hijacked I suspect many of the passengers are still alive

If the plane was hijacked it more than likely landed somewhere, I find it unlikely that the hijackers would have killed everyone on board. Where they are and what they have gone through I don't even want to think about however, I really have no clue who has them or what kind of condition they are in but I can't imagine anything less than awful.

[Warpy]

6. It takes a hell of a long runway to land one of those

and it could only have been done so at a major airport, any other arrangement would have had it overshoot the runway and crash.

I'm not altogether certain it could get all the way to Pakistan.

Someone earlier pointed out that the brief period at 45,000 feet might have been to depressurize the cabin and kill the cabin crew and passengers while whoever was flying that plane at the time used bottled oxygen.

Or they could have simply ditched in the ocean. Right now, we know nothing.

[Bjorn Against]

11. I don't think it is in Pakistan as I agree that would be hard to get to

I don't think it would be that difficult for them to find a place to land in some remote area however, especially considering there was likely a lot of planning put into this. You may need a runway to land, but a runway is basically nothing more than a long slab of concrete and there are plenty of those in the world.

You are right that we know nothing, but with the amount of planning that would be required to do something like this I feel there is likely a motive beyond suicide so my gut tells me they landed somewhere. I may be wrong because as you say we know nothing, but the clues we have seem to suggest an operation that was planned long in advance.

[awoke_in_2003]

15. With Autobrake set to max...

and thrust reversers, this plane can stop remarkably fast.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. 1,780m on the 200 variant.

For max landing weight. Which this plane wasn't at max landing weight.

That's about half the distance most news outlets keep parroting.

[awoke_in_2003]

34. Exactly...

It is hard to believe, but modern aircraft can slow from 135 knots to zero damn quick. I know- I work in flight simulation.

[pangaia]

67. Right,

and that's because 'news' outlets are full of people who know nothing about what they talk about.
Ever been interviewed? I have many, many times, and the articles written are just stupid nonsense, for the most part.

[pangaia]

64. With the amount of fuel as was likely to be left,

not full of pax, and not knowing the weight of the cargo,
it COULD land in less than 6000'.

[Voice for Peace]

110. can you land a big plane like that in the desert?

I don't know if there were any desert landing options, but
just wondering about that.

[Warpy]

117. Unlikely, deserts aren't generally very flat

There are dunes and hillocks and clumps of struggling vegetation that would play hell with any jetliner that attempted it.

[kristopher]

124. And if it were part of a planned operation how hard would it be?

Finding a spot in an emergency could present a problem, but I think it would be fairly easy to find a place that could be prepared without too much effort.

[PSPS]

22. Sadly, no passenger would survive the time the plane was at 45,000 feet.

The pilot would, however, on the bottled oxygen in the cockpit.

[awoke_in_2003]

35. Why not?

At 45k feet and modern pressurization systems, cabin altitude would be less than 6k feet.

[whopis01]

43. Because it's service ceiling is 43,100 ft

And that limitation is due to the ability of the aircraft to maintain cabin pressurization. I believe that is the reason claims are being made that the passengers and crew would have been rendered unconscious or killer at that altitude. I doubt that is actually the case - while it was certified for 431 I imagine it could probably do quite a bit higher before failing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. How do you know that the ceiling is due to the limit of the ability to maintain pressurization?

And not due to the lift available from the wings, and the power from the engines, at that altitude?

And 2,000 feet above a service ceiling isn't much, from a pressurization point of view. Externally, that's a fairly small difference in pressure (most of the air has already gone by that height, so an increase in height makes little difference). If the system is still trying to maintain a pressure difference with the outside, it'll be less than an equivalent difference of 1,000 feet inside. And that's not going to render everyone unconscious.

[whopis01]

52. Because that is the pressurization limit

Not the limit of how high the craft can fly.

At 431 it can still maintain a climb rate of 100ft/min and is capable of flying at an altitude of close to 60k ft.

If you read the entirety of my post you would have seen that I already said that flying a couple thousand feet above its service ceiling was not going to cause a situation that would incapacitate the crew/passengers.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. Who says it's the pressurization limit?

And who says it is capable of flying at an altitude of close to 60k ft?

Your post was confusing - #22 said "no passenger would survive the time the plane was at 45,000 feet", #35 asked 'why not', and you replied "Because it's service ceiling is 43,100 ft And that limitation is due to the ability of the aircraft to maintain cabin pressurization." But then you contradicted that with " I doubt that is actually the case - while it was certified for 431 I imagine it could probably do quite a bit higher before failing. "

So I think you're saying #22 was wrong, despite the 'because...' you started with, yes?

43,100 may be the limit because the lift and power cannot take it significantly beyond that - eg:

I'd hoped the 45,000 feet figure had been kicked into touch by the time I got back here, seems it's still being argued over.

IMHO a Rolls powered T7 at that stage of that flight isn't going to close to getting get up there.

And yes I've done many performance courses and operate (at times) a Rolls powered T7.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-190.html

[pangaia]

71. Just saw your post right after I posted mine just below.

As you can tell I do NOT fly T7's.

[muriel_volestrangler]

74. This (from someone who claims to know the plane):

Altitude of 45,000 ft
By S Eldin on Saturday, Mar 15th 2014 04:46Z

I have serious doubts about the claim of the aircraft climbing up to 45,000 ft.

Being familiar with the type, at the 230-240 tons that the aircraft weighed one hour into flight the performance limited altitude would have been between 38,000 and 39,000 ft, increasing about 10,000 ft for every 10 tons of fuel burned.

Normal takeoff fuel would have been in the range of 44-47 tons.

To climb significantly above these altitudes is not possible because the engines would not be able to develop the required thrust and the wing would not have been able to generate the required lift, both of which reduce with increased altitude.

To be able to climb to 45,000 ft (which is 2,000 ft above the certified ceiling of this 777) the weight would have to be reduced to approx. 165 tons; in other words the weight of the aircraft, payload and virtually no fuel

http://www.avherald.com/h?comment=4710c69b&opt=0

I presume that should read '1,000 ft for every 10 tons' (that would fit with the later calculation).

[whopis01]

81. Boeing (combined with regulations) says it is the pressurization limit

The maximum pressure differential the cabin pressurization system can supply is 8.6 psi. The maximum allowed cabin pressure altitude is 8000 feet. The pressure at 8000 feet is 11.2 psi. So the lowest outside pressure at which the cabin pressurization system could maintain 11.2 psi would be 2.6 psi. At 43,100ft the air pressure is 2.6 psi. So that altitude is right at the allowable limits of regulations and the capability of the pressurization system.

This comes from FAA regulations §25.841 - here is a link to it
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6950de6f84f12fb18c001de16a9b918a&node=14:1.0.1.3.11.4.180.71&rgn=div8

and performance guarantees for the 777 - section 6.5 is the relevant section
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/6201/000095012311037302/d81257exv10w2wg.htm

Most commercial passenger aircraft are physically capable of flying above their service ceiling - those ceilings are defined more by passenger safety issues than flight characteristics.

The 60k was a typo on my part - I meant to put 50k - and that was an extrapolation on my part from the climb rate curve. I probably should not have even included that in my previous post. My point was that the service ceiling is set by the pressurization system limits, not the flight characteristic limits.

I didn't mean for my post to be confusing - I certainly wasn't agreeing with the conclusion drawn in post 22 - I was trying to point out the logic that the other poster was attempting to use to get to that conclusion. They were making the leap (incorrectly) that once you crossed the pressurization limit the entire system would fail - which led them to an incorrect conclusion (in my opinion).

[muriel_volestrangler]

92. Thanks - that does make sense, looking at different versions

with different power, but all the same service ceiling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777#Specifications

indicating it's not flight characteristics, as you say. And I agree with you that an extra couple of thousand feet wouldn't render the average person unconscious, if the pressurization system was still working.

[pangaia]

70. The service ceiling is based on the aircrafts ability

to still climb at 100 fpm, as you say.
But the problem is the coffin corner, as I am sure you are aware.

I haven't had time to check the specs on the 777-200 at whatever its weight would have been, and that weight's effect on it's IAS at those altitudes where it may fall below VSO vs TAS and wing buffet when approaching the speed of sound.

[MyNameGoesHere]

79. FAA does not define it the way you do.

If you want you can trot on over to their site and look it up, or you can tell us what aviation governing body you got your criteria from?

[whopis01]

83. I'm not entirely sure I understand what you are saying, but I will try to explain my point

The FAA places a limit on the cabin altitude pressure of 8000ft. The pressure at 8000ft is roughly 11.2psi. So that means the aircraft has to maintain a pressure differential great enough to keep the cabin pressure at least at 11.2psi.

The Boeing 777 pressurization system can produce a maximum differential of 8.6psi. So that means if the outside air pressure is less that 2.6psi, it would be unable to maintain an inside pressure of 11.2psi.

The air pressure at 43,100 feet is 2.6psi - therefore if the aircraft were to fly higher than that, it would not be able to meet the FAA pressurization requirements.

FAA pressurization requirements:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6950de6f84f12fb18c001de16a9b918a&node=14:1.0.1.3.11.4.180.71&rgn=div8

777 performance guarantees (see section 6.5)
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/6201/000095012311037302/d81257exv10w2wg.htm

[MyNameGoesHere]

119. Cabin pressure alone is not the ONLY limiting factor

in service ceilings.

[whopis01]

126. Correct. The ceiling will be limited by the lowest altitude factor.

If a plane can maintain pressure at 45,000 feet but can only maintain flight at 35,000 feet then clearly it's ceiling would not be limited by its flight ability and not the cabin pressure.

In this case the pressurization system limits the ceiling to 43,100 feet. And I will guarantee you that if a passenger aircraft is certified to fly at 43,100 feet then it is physically capable of flight at a higher altitude. The service ceilings are not meant to be maximum theoretical capabilities. They are designed to be the maximum safe operating conditions.

[kristopher]

128. This AM CNN had a segment with a 777 flight simulator at 45K

It aired at 6:20 this mooring on "New Day Saturday" if you want to look for it.

[kristopher]

152. Came across the video - here's the link

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html

It is on the left, currently the middle of 3. "ReCreating MH370s Altitude"

[awoke_in_2003]

96. Thanks...

the biz jet (Gulfstreams and Dassault Falcons) can handle 45k, wasn't sure about the 777

[truth2power]

78. I always thought passenger drop-down oxygen masks were deployed

in case of depressurization.

Can you please address that, because I'm trying to understand this. Thanks.

[PSPS]

85. They are, but work for only a few minutes.

Under normal circumstances, the pilot would immediately descend to about 10,000 feet to make the use of the masks unnecessary. The pilots have their own bottled oxygen apart from the system feeding the masks in the cabin and it lasts far longer.

Also, there is a circuit breaker in the cockpit that deactivates the emergency passenger oxygen system on the 737, so maybe there's one on this 777 too.

[truth2power]

88. thanks. Clears that up. n/t

[JimDandy]

113. Wow, so the pilot could have had access to a potential murder switch?

I was wondering how someone in the cockpit could manage a hijacking without accomplices.

So the recipe for a pilot hijacking is:

Get Pilot duty on a international red eye flight so passengers are sleeping at critical time;
Make sure flight is over water to lessen the number of radar systems that can track the plane;
Lock cockpit door;
Turn off comm systems and transponder;
Flip circuit breaker in cockpit that deactivates passenger oxygen system;
Fly to de-pressurization height;
Put on Pilot's oxygen mask;
Wait till well past time needed to ensure passenger deaths, but leave enough time to dive to normal height before pilot's oxygen runs out;
Fly, unimpeded by any inside forces and undetected by outside forces, to destination.

YIKES!

So was this the "Perfect Storm" type of flight? It seems to have been.

You'd think Boeing wouldn't have been stupid enough to not install passenger masks that the crew could manually activate in the passenger section, though. And surely they weren't remiss enough to not install a satellite phone in the crew section and idiot lights powered by a separate electrical system (and backup generator) that blink madly when the comm systems and transponders are disabled in the cockpit.

That's just my 2 cents from this average jim. Sign me: "Previously Unbelievable"

[Iwasthere]

138. I am with you "previously unbelievale"

We are the minority ... conspiracy ... I said the word, waiting now for my front door to be knocked down ... they way things are going we aren't far from that ... and many in here will probably cheer!

[JimDandy]

143. What's scary is it's NOT a conspiracy, if all it takes is one person to hijack a plane!

That's what I found previously unbelievable.

To land it at some destination would have to take more than one person, though. And I'm not going there.

[bitchkitty]

103. Aren't there oxygen masks on planes?

Or is that something they stopped doing? I thought that in a situation like this, or when the cabin lost pressure, that masks would drop down - I remember them telling us that mothers should put on their own mask before they tried to fix their childrens' masks.

[PSPS]

105. Yes, but they work for only a few minutes.

Under normal circumstances, the pilot would immediately descend to about 10,000 feet to make the use of the masks unnecessary. The pilots have their own bottled oxygen apart from the system feeding the masks in the cabin and it lasts far longer.

Also, there is a circuit breaker in the cockpit that deactivates the emergency passenger oxygen system on the 737, so maybe there's one on this 777 too.

[bitchkitty]

107. That's bad news...

So I guess that means that there is no chance the passengers are still alive?

[TorchTheWitch]

144. I doubt the plane could have gotten to 45,000 feet

particularly with all the fuel it had.

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/777family/pf/pf_facts.page
"The 777 is capable of cruising at altitudes up to 43,100 feet."

Some interesting info about hypoxia, bottled oxygen, etc. from this flight disaster...

It's long but I think it's worth watching.

[PSPS]

146. It did climb to 45,000. That came out days ago.

From: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html?hp

SEPANG, Malaysia — Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 experienced significant changes in altitude after it lost contact with ground control, and altered its course more than once as if still under the command of a pilot, American officials and others familiar with the investigation said Friday.

Radar signals recorded by the Malaysian military appeared to show that the missing airliner climbed to 45,000 feet, above the approved altitude limit for a Boeing 777-200, soon after it disappeared from civilian radar and turned sharply to the west, according to a preliminary assessment by a person familiar with the data.

?w=592&h=429

Also, there's this from http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-plane-634-runways-3245824:

Mapped: The 634 runways where missing Malaysia Airlines plane could have landed

Potential hijackers had enough fuel to fly anywhere from Pakistan to Western Australia

[davidpdx]

56. I hope you are right

The whole thing is downright strange.

[grahamhgreen]

57. Leftover Vietnam era landing strips?

[Bjorn Against]

3. So I guess those of us who thought the plane was stolen were not "conspiracy theorists" after all

[DeSwiss]

10. ....

''Everybody who has ever worked for a corporation knows that corporations conspire all the time. Politicians conspire all the time, pot-dealers conspire not to get caught by the narcs, the world is full of conspiracies. Conspiracy is natural primate behavior.'' ~Robert Anton Wilson

[Bjorn Against]

13. Can't disagree with that

[red dog 1]

19. Great quote!

..by a great writer.

[truth2power]

77. That's a keeper. And here's another one about conspiracies...

"Those who suffer from conspiracy phobia are fond of saying: 'Do you actually think there's a group of people sitting around in a room plotting things?' For some reason that image is assumed to be so patently absurd as to invite only disclaimers. But where else would people of power get together - on park benches or carousels?

Indeed, they meet in rooms: corporate boardrooms, Pentagon command rooms, at the Bohemian Grove, in the choice dining rooms at the best restaurants, resorts, hotels, and estates, in the many conference rooms at the White House, the NSA, the CIA, or wherever.

And, yes, they consciously plot - though they call it 'planning' and 'strategizing' - and they do so in great secrecy, often resisting all efforts at public disclosure.

No one confabulates and plans more than political and corporate elites and their hired specialists. To make the world safe for those who own it, politically active elements of the owning class have created a national security state that expends billions of dollars and enlists the efforts of vast numbers of people.

--- Michael Parenti

It goes without saying that there are posters on DU who are tasked with assuring that people don't ask too many questions about one issue or another. Labeling someone a 'conspiracy theorist' is a tried-and-true method of shutting down discussion.

[red dog 1]

127. Michael Parenti is brilliant, pure & simple.

"The real danger we face is not from terrorism but what is being done under the pretext of fighting it.".........Michael Parenti

Speaking of conspiracies, Michael Parenti has done some excellent research on the JFK Assassination, and much of what he's written on the subject can be found at his website:
http://www.michaelparenti.org/


I just found a place on DU where you can discuss conspiracy theories.
Under the topic "Offbeat", is a DU Group called "Creative Speculation"

It's "Statement of Purpose" states:
"Discuss conspiracy theories and other highly-speculative topics..Free-thinkers and skeptics are both welcome"

[truth2power]

145. Thanks for pointing out the JFK material on the Parenti site. I'll take a look...

And I read the "Creative Speculation" group all the time.

[red dog 1]

148. IMO, the best book written about the JFK Murder is by Peter Dale Scott...

...and it's title is "The Assassinations: Dallas and Beyond"

Interesting post in the "Creative Speculation" group is the one about Vincent Bugliosi's JFK Assassination book.."Reclaiming History", which, IMO, is pure bullshit!

A good critique of Bugliosi's dis-info on the JFK Assassination can be found at:
http://www.reclaiminghistory.org/

[DeSwiss]

135. Exactly.

- And I'm not just saying that.



''Men of the same trade never gather together without a conspriracy against the general public.''

~Adam Smith

[BlueStreak]

59. I don't recall any objections about conspiracies. The objection was wild unfounded specalution

based on nothing. The first data that supported any particular theory did not come until Wednesday when it was reported that the engines were still operational 4 hours after the transponder went off. Anybody presenting theories before that point was just talking out their asses.

Yes, obviously hijacking was one possibility among many. And now it looks like the most likely scenario.

[kristopher]

65. As the OP confirms, it wasn't "wild unfounded speculation"

Just because you refuse to see the nose on your face doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept your limits of vision.

[Bjorn Against]

76. Well then I guess anyone who suggested anything was talking out their asses

I think it is a bit ridiculous to suggest nobody even talk about what might have happened until all the facts are in however. The people who thought the plane crashed were speculating just as much as those who thought it was stolen, but I did not see them scolded for unfounded speculation to nearly the extent.

[B2G]

82. Actually, the speculation that it had CRASHED was based on nothing.

No distress call, no debris field, no radar trail...nothing. Hijacking has made more sense from day one.

Yet those of use who suggested hijacking were shut down by more than a few. And many of them are conspicuously absent from the discussion now.

[BlueStreak]

130. It was based on official Malaysian statements that the plane doubled back over the Malacca strait

I can't speak for others, but when that was the official position, I suggested that there was nothing that supported a theory of criminal activity and that equipment failure with the original pilots still in control was the most likely scenario. Since the Wednesday revelation about engines pinging for 4 hours, that becomes less likely and some other scenario becomes more likely. However, there actually hasn't been any new information of a factual nature since Wednesday and that is still where we are. More people are speculating about a takeover, but it isn't based on any new evidence other than the pinging reports.

Equipment failure in a Payne Stewart scenario is still a possibility. A hijacking is still a possibility. A rogue pilot is still a possibility. And another possibility is some kind of internal Malaysian dirty trick to discredit the ruling regime. They have a very divided political situation in Malaysia, so that isn't out of the question.

So please, go ahead and speculate to your heart's content if it pleases you. Personally, I have other things to do and I'll just wait for some actual facts..

[B2G]

141. When it became clear that the plane drastically altered course,

is when many of us started talking about a hijacking. Which was the only explanation that made any sense.

I suspected it before that, when no wreckage had been found in such shallow waters and was roundly booed. Creekdog even went so far as to try to discredit me by dredging up old posts he disagreed with. It was pretty pathetic.

[truth2power]

95. Oh, now it's that now. "Unfounded speculation"...

I guess the term 'conspiracy theorist' doesn't have the cache it once had.

Human beings speculate every day about what is going on in the world we live in. We judge and make inferences and have 'hunches' and theorize (in the everyday sense) about what actions we should take, and what's true and what's not, and we do that from the time we get up until the time we go to bed at night. If we didn't, we probably wouldn't survive very long.

Surely you're not saying individuals shouldn't ask the who, what when where and why of things. Or are you saying you're the only arbiter of what's unfounded and what's not?

I'm going to say what I said in another post in this thread: Some people don't want us to ask too many questions. I could 'speculate' as to why, I suppose.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

122. This right here, BlueStreak! You have a response? nt

[savannah43]

139. Didn't the release of the alleged fact that cell phones

belonging to passengers on the plane were ringing, but no one was answering them, cause you to at least consider the possibility that someone collected all the cell phones and kept them on board? Wasn't that revelation before the info about the engines?

[BlueStreak]

140. So let me get this straight

The plane was flying at 70,000 feet in the middle of the Indian ocean on its way to a secret US (or Uighur) base and yet cell phones were able to get 5 bars?

I think I'll wait for some facts.

[IDemo]

142. The ring you hear when calling a cell or landline phone

Does not come from the phone you're trying to reach. The switching equipment generates the ring tones regardless of whether a physical phone exists at the other end unless that phone is 'busy' or has had service disconnected.

[lib87]

5. This has to be A Sick Rollercoaster for the Families

Now they say it was hijacked before the plane crashed?

I wonder if anyone could have attempted to send a text, email, phone call in that area while the plane was getting hijacked.

I really don't know what to think since the story is so fluid.

[SoapBox]

7. I guess for tonight anyway...

I'll take a stance that it's in the Indian Ocean.

It would be almost impossible these days to control 200+ passengers and crew, in a cabin that large, after 9/11...there should have been a large group that would have fought back. I also still think that at least one cell call would have been made if that monster had been landed.

Either the cockpit did it themselves OR they had a huge blunder of cockpit security (IF the hijacking theory holds).

[Renew Deal]

8. Look at this

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-eerie-moment-3222919

[uppityperson]

21. Another article I read said that is what you hear when the system is looking for your phone

If it has to search, it sends a ringing sound to the person calling so they don't hear silence and think nothing is happening.

http://mashable.com/2014/03/11/why-malaysia-airlines-passengers-phones-ring/

Unfortunately, the ringing phones don't mean much of anything at all.

When you place a call, hit the send button, and your phone starts to ring, it "doesn’t mean it is ringing on the phone of the person you are calling," says wireless analyst Jeff Kagan.

"What it means is the network is at work, trying to locate the party you are calling," he says. "It rings once, twice, three times, and if it finds the phone, it delivers the call. If it doesn’t find the phone, then the call is disconnected."

"Family members over there are hearing the [ring] tone and they are hoping, but this is not a sign of anything. This is just how the networks work," Kagan says.....(more)

[davidpdx]

54. Well the other theory would be if the plane were hijacked and the passengers were alive

who's to say the hijackers didn't search every passenger and take cell phones away? Granted they would have been vastly outnumbered, but assuming they had weapons they would have had leverage to get the phones away from them.

Lots of if's through. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it, it is just one of thousands of possibilities.

[uppityperson]

129. The poor families. Too many "ifs" still, as my spouse said "movie makings". nt

[whopis01]

44. If I turn my cell off and call it from another phone

I hear the ringing sound until it goes to voicemail. I tried it after I first heard that story.

[freshwest]

132. Picture at the link is heartbreaking:

Thanks for posting this thread, it is probably the best one yet.

[longship]

14. There are no cell towers on the ocean.

So, cell comms not likely.

[Bjorn Against]

16. I don't know that you could count on a cell phone call if the plane landed

I had actually thought about the possibility of searching for the passenger's cell phone signals, the problem is much of the world does not have cell phone coverage.

As far as passengers fighting back goes, that is certainly a possibility but by no means a certainty. In some situations fighting back is impossible, in other situations it may be possible but would risk making the situation even worse.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. Were the pilots Islamic terrorists? nt

[obxhead]

32. Undecided.

TPTB must first find the most profitable target, then they will be blamed.

[Myrina]

104. +100

Sadly, you are most likely very correct.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

147. You think all this has been been done by TPTB to create a "situation?" nt

[obxhead]

149. I did not say that

I said they have yet to decide on who to blame.

[DeSwiss]

12. ''Conclusive'' :-| n/t

[Cha]

17. Kick

[jtuck004]

18. The same government officials who, perhaps, called in a shaman?

Ibrahim Mat Zin, famous shaman called ‘king of the witch doctors’ performs ritual at Kuala Lumpur International Airport. Reports say he was invited by government officials.

Here.

Interesting video at link with him performing a ritual...

[red dog 1]

20. K&R.....Thanks for posting

The plane may well have been hijacked..
but if it landed somewhere, wouldn't we have heard about it by now?

I pray that it did land safely, for the sake of all those innocent passengers, but I have a gut feeling that it landed in the Indian Ocean somewhere...perhaps after an explosion.

[icarusxat]

118. Consider this...

Our CIA and NSA have gone rogue
They are taking marching orders from their masters rather than the POTUS
A B-2 intercepts the airliner and blocks communications and radar tracking perhaps even dropping a device to simulate a crash
The plane is already under the control of those wishing to use it for their purposes
It is then taken to Diego Garcia and enough parts removed to fake a crash elsewhere
The "wreckage" is found and the whole "thing" is put to rest

Others have posted maps of the range of the airliner on this site

Keep on questioning...

“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”

― Arundhati Roy

[EX500rider]

123. "Our CIA and NSA have gone rogue"

If they wanted a plane there are lots of easier ways to get one. Especially one that comes with no passengers. Like all the older models sitting out in the desert in Arizona. Or they'd buy a new one thru a dummy shell corporation. Any government wants a plane-they can get a plane with out all that hassle.

[jmowreader]

136. Consider this

If the CIA or NSA wanted an airplane, there's enough pocket change in the couch cushions of their black budgets just to go to an airplane broker and buy one.

[greyl]

23. Edit: Conference not quite started yet.

Guy spoke to disgruntled audience for a couple minutes about a conference at 5:30, now he's disappeared.

Live video:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/live-video/2
http://www.livestation.com/reuters
http://english.astroawani.com/videos/live

[Renew Deal]

24. I think there will be a statement with no questions and then

They will come back later and answer pre-screened questions...

[greyl]

26. Did you catch an updated time for the statement? nt

[Renew Deal]

28. No

Still sitting. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live

I think they said something about 5:30 for the follow up. I'm assuming that's local time.

[greyl]

29. Lol, I thought he kept saying 5:30 was a different issue.

I think their current local time is now 2:18:07 PM.

I've been streaming the crowd noise too.

[countryjake]

58. They were awaiting the arrival of the Chinese Ambassador to Malaysia...

I read that on the CCTV (China Central Television) twitter page, so don't hold me to the veracity of the claim.

Thanks for this very informative thread, Renew Deal!

[maced666]

25. Biggest DUH ever.

Sometime next week someone will be brave enough to say the word 'terrorist'.

[ErikJ]

27. Pirates.

Somalian pirates. Start looking there.

[Tx4obama]

31. Every plane 'should' have to send a signal with its location every five minutes to a satelite...

... losing a plane in this age of technology is unbelievable!

[davidpdx]

55. The airlines should be sewing beacons into the wing if necessary

and not telling the pilots. If they don't know then they can't give up the information to a terrorist.

[AtheistCrusader]

89. Seriously, the pilot turning off the transponders in a commercial aircraft should

A) Not be possible and
B) Set off every goddamn alarm in the plane, and startup every single data uplink in the plane.

[davidpdx]

121. I agree

Obviously the redundancy they have now is not enough. That's why I think a third transponder should be put somewhere where it can't be gotten to unless the plane is hacked into pieces (in which case no one would be able to fly it). I'm just shocked that since after 9/11 something like this hasn't been addressed. Or maybe I shouldn't be.

[LongTomH]

137. There will be a call for something like this after the MH370 incident

Expect airlines to object, due to the cost of retrofitting every aircraft.

[Tx4obama]

33. More links...

Malaysia Airlines Missing Plane: Actions Likely 'Deliberate,' Prime Minister Najib Razak States

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/15/malaysia-airlines-plane-deliberate_n_4968839.html

CNN front page plane story link

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

AP

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/vietnam-downgrades-search-missing-jet

Malaysian official says missing plane hijacked

http://news.yahoo.com/malaysian-official-says-missing-plane-hijacked-051507084.html

[Tx4obama]

36. Press conference video

I think this is the newest one (?)

[africanadian]

47. It is the newest

I was checking YouTube a minute ago.

[treestar]

37. Kick

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. PM's full statement here:

Based on new satellite information, we can say with a high degree of certainty that the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) was disabled just before the aircraft reached the East coast of peninsular Malaysia. Shortly afterwards, near the border between Malaysian and Vietnamese air traffic control, the aircraft’s transponder was switched off.

From this point onwards, the Royal Malaysian Air Force primary radar showed that an aircraft which was believed – but not confirmed – to be MH370 did indeed turn back. It then flew in a westerly direction back over peninsular Malaysia before turning northwest. Up until the point at which it left military primary radar coverage, these movements are consistent with deliberate action by someone on the plane.
...
According to the new data, the last confirmed communication between the plane and the satellite was at 8:11AM Malaysian time on Saturday 8th March. The investigations team is making further calculations which will indicate how far the aircraft may have flown after this last point of contact. This will help us to refine the search.
...
However, based on this new data, the aviation authorities of Malaysia and their international counterparts have determined that the plane’s last communication with the satellite was in one of two possible corridors: a northern corridor stretching approximately from the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan to northern Thailand, or a southern corridor stretching approximately from Indonesia to the southern Indian ocean. The investigation team is working to further refine the information.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/malaysian-pms-full-statement

This says the first thing turned off was the ACARS system - as the plane flew from the Malaysian land to the South China Sea.

The last communication with the crew was made at around 1.20am, 40 minutes into the flight, as it headed east over the South China Sea towards Vietnam.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/flight-mh370-malaysians-convinced-missing-airliner-was-hijacked

The BBC reporter thinks this means they are saying the last communication, which implied 'everything normal', happened after ACARS was turned off.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/85055/this-was-the-very-last-message-received-on-the-malaysia-airlines-flight

[countryjake]

39. It sounds like the ACARS was turned off just as they headed out over water...

and that is really disturbing. Unless the pilot had a gun to his head, why would he later then say, "All right, good night." Was it his voice that said that? I wonder if they're doing voice-recognition analysis?

We've been speculating all along that it was mighty suspicious that the transponder was then switched off in the middle of the Gulf of Thailand, right at the moment that the plane was handed off to Vietnamese Air Control. And THEN it turned around. As soon as he heard that, my man said it was hijacked. He'll be howling "told you so" as soon as he hears about this latest press conference.

(on edit...Oh, and thank you for posting that! I watched the Prime Minister's press conference and took my own notes, but many here will need to see exactly what he said.)

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. Exactly. FWIW, here's a diagram of the 'arc' of the last known position

I think this comes from the time the signal got to the satellite - they can say it was on the 40 degree arc.

:large

My question would be which, of all the countries possibly concerned, saw unexplained activity on their radar systems? I'm starting to read through the Professional Pilots Rumour Network thread on this: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-199.html

There is talk about 'tailgating' - following another plane. I don't know, but perhaps the implication is that a radar operator wouldn't notice a sufficiently different signal if they knew there was a regular known plane very close?

[jakeXT]

42. With two satellites they would have a position, with just one it's a mess

:large

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. Thanks - a colour picture is better for red lines!

Yeah, I presume that means they've been able to rule out the centre part of the arc due to known radar coverage (or something along those lines). That arc seems to be the best they can do - I've seen an electronics engineer say it's probably from the signal strength that reached the satellite.

I'd expect India to have pretty good radar coverage, since they have a sizeable military, so I wouldn't think they could cross the Indian coast (or Assam, to the north east of Bangladesh) undetected; or a part of China, for that matter. The south east Indian Ocean seems a more likely position, to me.

[countryjake]

48. Could that explain the odd changing of altitudes? Tailgating?

I'm totally ignorant about radar, only know that it's just a blip on a screen. If Flight 370 shadowed another plane from high above, would that show up as two blips? That would have to take some highly coordinated flying, but they say that the jet did change altitude more than just that first time, after it turned around and climbed drastically. (I've no idea how they knew that, I think I read that at yesterday's Guardian blog.)

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. I know nothing about that either, but it sounds a possiblity, to me

As good as anything the Malaysian government's said, anyway.

[countryjake]

53. We've been placing bets on their responses, I feel sorry for Malaysia...

and have to keep the thought that "this is unprecedented" in my head while listening to every one of their press briefings. My primary speculation had been that something on that jet failed, pilots themselves were disabled, plane kept going, wandered suspiciously into a nation's airspace, unresponsive flight triggered scrambling and the unthinkable had occurred. And I'm still not certain that's not what happened, lots of alert and well-manned areas along that new arc they've released (to the North).

Hey, thanks for that link you posted...like I need to read more stuff of which I have very little understanding, but it's quite interesting to me.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. But maybe that is reading too much into it - an opinion on the PPRuNe forum:

ACARS Data Switched Off, Satcom still ON

The ACARS data feed from the engine systems (for Rolls Royce) and other aircraft systems (sent to Boeing) stopped or was switched off.

The Satcom system (used by ACARS as an alternative to VHF links to ground stations) continued to operate, but only exchanged routine information (pings) with Inmarsat to confirm that the link was still alive. (These "pings" contain information identifying the querying aircraft.)

This is like your Outlook email browser checking with an email server every few minutes. The message check proceeds even if no messages are waiting to be sent or received. Of course, the client needs to identify itself to enable the server to check for messages for that aircraft. Normally, the senders and recipients of messages never hear about these purely procedural link maintenance communications.

When the Malaysian government says that ACARS was "switched off", they mean only that no messages were sent or received after a certain time. Neither the Malaysian government nor the hijackers realized that the Satcom link would remain active even without ACARS messages to transmit or receive.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-197.html#post8377309

So they think it might just mean the plane's systems had no particular information to send after crossing the coast. The actual blocking of the system could, therefore, still be at the time the plane turned, after the voice communicatino.

[countryjake]

45. Right, I read that earlier on the live Guardian blog...

which had a similar explanation from the satellite company Inmarsat (found on Friday's link, at 6.30pm GMT):

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/14/mh370-search-for-missing-plane-extends-to-the-indian-ocean-live-updates



I've just begun following today's blog and found this (at 9.48am GMT, on Saturday's link):

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/mh370-search-for-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-extended-to-southern-indian-ocean

The New York Times says the northern corridor described by the Malaysian PM is heavily militarised while the southern corridor is mostly open sea.


The northern arc described by Mr. Najib passes through or close to some of the world’s most volatile countries that are home to insurgent groups, but also over highly militarized areas with robust air defense networks, some run by the U.S. military. The arc passes close to northern Iran, through Afghanistan and northern Pakistan, and through northern India and the Himalayan mountains and Myanmar. An aircraft flying on that arc would have to pass through air defense networks in India and Pakistan, whose mutual border is heavily militarized, as well as through Afghanistan, where the United States and other NATO countries have operated air bases for more than a decade.

Air bases near that arc include Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan, where the U.S. Air Force’s 455th Air Expeditionary Wing is based, and a large Indian air base, Hindon Air Force Station.

The southern arc, from Indonesia to the southern Indian Ocean, travels over open water with few islands stretching all the way to Antarctica. If the aircraft took that path, it may have passed near Australia’s Cocos (Keeling) Islands. These remote islands, with a population of fewer than 1,000 people, have a small airport. To the east of that route is Western Australia.

[Android3.14]

51. Deliberately downed?

The whole idea that governments with multiple spy satellites are unable to track this plane is without credibility.

[B2G]

72. Yep, firing up the grill as we speak

Do you think they like their birds done medium or medium well?

[avebury]

61. What I find extremely interesting is

that it appears that not one person on that plane got off so much as a text message or phone call alerting somebody that something was wrong. We live in a time where most people have cellphones, laptops or tablets the chances are that quite a few passengers on that plane probably had at least one device. Some cellphones are very high tech. It is possible that the longer the plane was in the air and moving over the Indian Ocean it might have been difficult to get a connection but early on maybe somebody could have gotten off some type of message. Yes the plane was flying late at night but that sharp turn should have made some of the passengers wonder what the heck was going on.

[snagglepuss]

86. I've also found that to be interesting. Stewardesses for sure would be

aware of a sharp turn. Perhaps passengers and crew were gassed to ensure silence.

[JudyM]

114. Wondering if cellphone carriers are able to remotely pull any text attempts that didn't get through?

Like, are there remote forensic capabilities if they go passenger by passenger...

[countryjake]

62. Malaysia Airlines issues 19th statement on Flight 370...

from the CCTV America (China Central Television) twitter page:

https://twitter.com/CCTV_America

[uppityperson]

131. Here is the direct link to their page, been following it. There are numbers below to see older stuff

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html

[countryjake]

151. Thank you for that! Yes, I've already been following there, too.

Actually, I like to compare official statements from the airline, the Malaysian government, both Malaysian and Chinese media to what has been found in most of the Western media.

Doing that is comparable to riding the Scrambler at a carnival.

[LannyDeVaney]

63. I'm confused ...

my local paper had this same headline. I read their source material, as well as the source material listed here.

Maybe it's early. Maybe I haven't had my coffee. Where does it say they've concluded it was hijacked?

[kristopher]

66. It's supposed to be in Beijing.

It isn't.
It didn't crash.
It is being deliberately piloted to another location.
Ergo it was hijacked.

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. it was deliberately diverted from the normal course, but still guided

and they switched off the systems that send precise data out, but the basic "this plane still has power" signal remained. This indicates someone was in control of the plane. Therefore it was hijacked.

[Fuddnik]

68. Why don't they just admit that it was teleported to Uranus by aliens?

Ok, maybe Mars.

[Baclava]

75. "We are still investigating all possibilities" "one step closer"

I get the feeling we'll be hearing these same words 6 years from now - but still no plane

[WhoWoodaKnew]

84. Could be. There are some mysteries that are never solved.

[Baclava]

87. Now they deny it - "Hijack Report Denied by Kuala Lumpur"

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Hijack Report Denied by Kuala Lumpur

Kuala Lumpur has hastened to deny a report which said the ongoing investigation "conclusively" suggests the missing Malaysia Airlines flight was hijacked.

Within a few hours after it was reported that the probe suggests the Boeing 777 was hijacked, the chief of the investigation has said "it is not true".

"It is not conclusive. I'm heading the investigation and nobody is saying that. It's not true. We are looking at the possibility, we're looking at all possibilities. We're doing every profile of the passengers and crew but there is no firm evidence or leads so far," Malaysia's civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, who is leading the entire investigation, told the Telegraph.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-was-hijacked-confirms-kuala-lumpur-1440405

[AtheistCrusader]

90. They are just denying that they had reached a concensus.

Until the plane is found, one can't rule it out at this point.

[Baclava]

91. they should be more careful what they say - the wsj will print anything n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

93. The problem is, it'll say anything

even if you say nothing...

[mainer]

80. It's on Diego Garcia! sensitive cargo

or so says the latest conspiracy theory. With the way this mystery is unfolding, anything seems to be possible. I got this link off the PPrune bulletin board. Oddly enough, it was there on their board for just a short time, then the post vanished.

For your fun reading:

A new report circulating in the Kremlin today prepared by the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (GRU) states that Aerospace Defence Forces (VKO) experts remain “puzzled” as to why the United States Navy “captured and then diverted” a Malaysia Airlines civilian aircraft from its intended flight-path to their vast and highly-secretive Indian Ocean base located on the Diego Garcia atoll.

According to this report, Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (also marketed as China Southern Airlines flight 748 through a codeshare) was a scheduled passenger flight from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing, China, when on 8 March this Boeing 777-200ER aircraft “disappeared” in flight with 227 passengers on board from 15 countries, most of whom were Chinese, and 12 crew members.

Interesting to note, this report says, was that Flight 370 was already under GRU “surveillance” after it received a “highly suspicious” cargo load that had been traced to the Indian Ocean nation Republic of Seychelles, and where it had previously been aboard the US-flagged container ship MV Maersk Alabama.

What first aroused GRU suspicions regarding the MV Maersk Alabama, this report continues, was that within 24-hours of off-loading this “highly suspicious” cargo load bound for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, the two highly-trained US Navy Seals assigned to protect it, Mark Daniel Kennedy, 43, and Jeffrey Keith Reynolds, 44, were found dead under “suspicious circumstances.”

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1753.htm

[Comrade Grumpy]

109. Whee! That's some wild stuff.

[Voice for Peace]

112. hmm

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/2-ex-navy-seals-on-maersk-alabama-died-of-respiratory-failure-police-say/

[beachbum bob]

94. seems like the beginning of "Lost"

...............

[EX500rider]

97. Here's the latest from BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26591056

Apparently the SAT phone pinged the satellite for 7 hours after the transponder went offline.

"A satellite was able to pick up a signal from the plane until 08:11 local time - more than seven hours after it lost radar contact - although it was unable to give a precise location, Mr Razak said.
He went on to say that based on this new data, investigators "have determined the plane's last communication with a satellite was in one of two possible corridors":
A northern corridor stretching from the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan through to northern Thailand
a southern corridor stretching from Indonesia to the southern Indian Ocean."

That's about where the fuel would have run out.

So piracy maybe but also maybe a fire that asphyxiated everybody and burnt thru many electrical sysytems..?

Fire scenario:
Breaks out under cockpit and quickly over whelms crew with toxic smoke....burns thru all comms and ASCARS but not the sat phone, the plane flies on last course 7 hours and crashes.

Piracy:
Southern route:
Somali pirates trying a new gig since they've been unable to take a ship for over a year...runs out gas just short or is hidden on ground and hostages being well dispersed before contacting their middle men/brokers in the Persian Gulf region.

Northern route: separatists from one of the Stan's or China...runs out again or is on ground somewhere in a distant valley.

Hard to buy the north route theory, too many ATC's in the way and more radar. Indian Ocean not so much.

[muriel_volestrangler]

101. Fire sounds equally unlikely

It would have to knock out the major comms system, but none of the systems needed to keep the plane in the air for another 7 hours - on a course on which no-one noticed it (it requires a turn from the apparent last radar contact off the west of Malaysia to get round to the southern Indian Ocean).

[JudyM]

116. Plus unlikely that a fire would've started so suddenly that the pilot couldn't get off an SOS

Maybe if there were an explosion, but then presumably it wouldn't've kept flying.

[BlueStreak]

133. I knew it was Somalian pirates all along

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4663036

That, or else the Pope did it. Or Chris Christie did it to divert attention away from Bridgegate.

[sarcasmo]

98. The plane is in Iran. The two men with stolen passports were Iranian.

[treestar]

100. That's not a bad guess

There could even be government or military cooperation so that an air strip was available.

[muriel_volestrangler]

102. Very hard to approach Iran without Oman or Pakistan noticing

That's a tense area - the militaries will have systems to check all planes close to their airspace, and will investigate unknown ones. And India would do the same (they are in a stand off with Pakistan), so the plane would have to skirt India too.

[truth2power]

99. I haven't seen this link mentioned, so I'll throw it out here, for what it's worth...

Professional Pilots Rumor Network (no, it's not a bogus site).

http://www.pprune.org/

First thread at the top of the forum. I'd suggest you start with the LAST page and work forward to get the most recent info. I don't remember how I happened on this a couple days ago, clicking around.

A lot of the technical stuff I don't understand, but one thing that intrigues me is the interest in the cargo manifest.

As best I understand what's been posted about that, supposedly there were 50 empty seats on the plane. And supposedly 50 passengers were put on stand-by status. All of them were bumped, it's been speculated (or maybe someone has hard info) because of weight restrictions i.e. weight of the cargo required fewer passengers.

I assume that each bumped passenger (pax) thought he or she was the only one, so no reason to suspect anything untoward. So, what was in the cargo hold?

Please don't shoot the messenger. I wasn't there. Just reporting what I read on that forum. But it is puzzling, if true.

[mainer]

108. it matches theory plane flown to US base

On diego garcia. It's an extraordinary rendition because of either passengers or cargo.

[BlueStreak]

134. Why would the US need to deliver cargo this way?

I mean, they can just carry it on their own transports or hire it out to a contractor. If the destination is a US base, why would we have to hijack a plane for that.

And if we wanted to torture a couple of individuals, don't you think the CIA is capable of kidnapping them? What sense would it make to grab a whole planeload of people if you want to torture a couple of people?

Really, this whole thread is way beyond comical. This is like reading Drudge or Britebart or something.

[cosmicone]

106. We need to give the Malaysian authorities a break

This situation is unique and has never occurred before.

A pilot purposely turning off the communications and transponder was not envisioned and therefore all radar sightings had an unbelievability factor and thus conflicting accounts.

My question is, why has the manufacturer given the pilot the ability to turn off the transponders? What purpose does it serve? Any pilots out there?

[EX500rider]

111. All electrical equip needs a off in case of electrical shorts.

[icarusxat]

120. One of the any pilots out here...

A transponder serves to amplify and identify the radar return of any given aircraft. Turning it on or off is up to the pilot. It does not make the aircraft invisible. Radar is still able to see the aircraft. Competent air controllers are able to see the airplanes.

[IDemo]

150. What would be the reason for turning it off?

[TwilightGardener]

115. I find it odd that China quietly released satellite photos of some sort of

floating junk near Vietnam, and then soon after the US/Boeing/Rolls Royce says, "Nope, it flew on for hours because of engine data transmission", and then Malaysia denies that, and then finally fesses up what it knows via radar and satellite. Were any of the prior info and search areas intentionally bogus and/or diversionary? And why would that be?

[mackerel]

125. you bring up some good points