Final words from jet came after systems shutdown

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By CHRIS BRUMMITT and JIM GOMEZ

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) - The final words from the missing Malaysian jetliner's cockpit gave no indication anything was wrong, even though one of the plane's communications systems had already been disabled, officials said Sunday, adding to suspicions that one or both of the pilots were involved in the disappearance.

Authorities also examined a flight simulator confiscated from the home of one of the pilots and dug through the background of all 239 people on board, as well as the ground crew that serviced the plane.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 took off from Kuala Lumpur in the wee hours of March 8, headed to Beijing. On Saturday, the Malaysian government announced findings that strongly suggested the plane was deliberately diverted and may have flown as far north as Central Asia or south into the vast reaches of the Indian Ocean.

Investigators have said someone on board the plane first disabled one of its communications systems - the Aircraft and Communications Addressing and Reporting System, or ACARS - about 40 minutes after takeoff. The ACARS equipment sends information about the jet's engines and other data to the airline.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140316/DACIURQ81.html

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A note paper with messages for passengers aboard a missing Malaysia Airlines plane, is pasted on a message board at a shopping mall in Petaling Jaya, near Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, Sunday, March 16, 2014. Malaysian authorities Sunday were investigating the pilots of the missing jetliner after it was established that whoever flew off with the Boeing 777 had intimate knowledge of the cockpit and knew how to avoid detection when navigating around Asia. (AP Photo/Lai Seng Sin)

[bigworld]

1. Sounding more and more like the pilot was in on it

Hard to fathom it took them a full week before they searched his apartment.

[backscatter712]

3. Or maybe the pilot was flying with a gun pointed at his head.

Hard to say what happened until they find the plane or its remains.

[BlueStreak]

6. Or the person on the last communication wasn't either of the assigned pilots

All of these little factoids are really inconclusive.

[On the Road]

24. Wouldn't the Change be Recognized?

or would they be tallking to different individuals along the way?

[BlueStreak]

28. Not at all

1) Voice communications are grainy. Often the words are hard to detect, let alone recognizing a particular voice.

2) The ATC site talks to hundreds of pilot each shift.

The report I heard said it was APPARENTLY the co-pilot. In other words, they were just jumping to conclusions, which is all anybody has been doing for the past 10 days. Show me a scientific analysis of the communications. If there is a recording and it is clear enough for a conclusive ID, not just a guess or supposition, then that will be important information.

But even then, all it would prove is that the co-pilot was in the chair when the transponder was turned off. In that hypothetical case, it seems more likely that the copilot was involved in the flying, but he might have done so under duress.

[morningfog]

26. Reports out now say the voice was the co-pilot.

[SoapBox]

8. I thought at one time that maybe a pilot's family

was being held hostage and/or being blackmailed...but investigations should have eliminated that by now.

[elleng]

2. More here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html?hp

[Sunlei]

4. could these system changes have been done remotely without pilots knowledge?

If a plane flew over any part of China or Asia they wouldn't they be suspicious of a no communication plane.?

I also don't understand why out of 250+ passengers if they flew over any populated area (with coverage) someone wouldn't have tried to use their cell phone.

Why no 'suicide' claims from any group or even note from the pilot(s). So many unanswered questions.

[LongTomH]

9. I'm certain that, if an airplane flew over any part of China without a flight plan or transponder...

.....the Chinese air force would have quickly intercepted them, and probably shot them down if they didn't respond to radio.

[forkol]

17. There's some answers to your questions (based on the current reporting)

There have been a few news reports regarding your questions.

After takeoff, the plane was pretty much over water (and no where near enough to China) on it's normal flight path for some time, so there was no initial concern.

However, when it (reportedly) turned, the plane turned and followed routing that was generally followed for commercial airlines, and so there was still no concerns.

As I have been reading, it's not true that there's total, constant radar coverage for all flights even in this area, contrary to what most people believe. So, basically the flight was ignored because it was flying a general flight path that was reserved for commercial airlines, and any country that was monitoring didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

As for your other point about the passengers using their cellphones, as you rightly mention, they would have to have flown over a populated area since there are generally no cell towers placed in the ocean. Also, I read from news reports, that cell phones do not work above a certain altitude.

But, the more ominous reason is that from other reports, the plane ascended to 45,000 feet, them came down to about 20,000 feet, and re-ascended to about 40,000 feet again before dropping back down to about 30,000 feet. The thinking is that the they went up so high was to de-pressurize the cabin which, in time, would eventually kill the passengers.

But, you say, what about the oxygen masks? I read that there's only a limited amount of oxygen (maybe about 5 minutes worth). The masks are only supposed to be for temporary use, and just allow enough time for a pilot to get a plane low enough so that they were not needed. However, the pilot's oxygen masks last a lot longer. So, if the reports are true, it looks like the plane was taken up to a high altitude twice and long enough to ensure that no passengers would be alive.

Because of all of the flight knowledge needed, it does pretty much seem that you either would need to be a pilot, or know a hell of a lot about commercial airlines, flights, and procedures.

[Android3.14]

5. There is something seriously wrong here

How could the satellite surveillance systems of the US, China, India and Europe miss this? The answer is that they wouldn't. This is too weird.

[PSPS]

18. It isn't so far fetched

Most aerial surveillance is designed for military purposes, like detecting missile launches. A single plane over an area of the Indian Ocean that is essentially unpopulated might not be noticed at all. Even the Mexico/US border requires something like AWACS to monitor suspect drug planes. If the plane got as far as Diego Garcia, I'm sure it would have been detected since the US has a large military base there.

Another possibility is that the plane has landed somewhere and there are secret "negotiations" going on.

Sadly, as for the passengers, I don't hold out much hope for them. That climb to 45,000 was done for a reason and it didn't happen due to any "struggle in the cockpit."

[PATRICK]

25. I'll take another stab

and ditch the Shangri-La abduction theory for starters.

A pilot gets tempted to score big and uses his know how to abduct a plane and set it down on an obscure landing strip. To manage the ground scene and subsequent plan he would need accomplices with guns and a large food supply. Objective: after the search cools down demand a ransom and somehow disappear. This is getting to be the simplest scenario. Procuring or selling a plane to terrorists and slaughtering all those people seems too complicated. Once authorities can reason to a likely hijacking that jig is up. And then you are still left with ransoming.

I think they are waiting to see if the location is discovered. If so a highly dangerous plan B can go into effect with the plane rigged with explosives and the ground team having to escape with the loot. They likely made their own landing strip in some obscure location and by now have camouflaged everything. If they do find it the smart thing would be to be quiet, but the chaos of the search makes that very difficult. Nevertheless the hijackers should not wait too long.

Feeding 239 people after the plane supplies run out and then waiting so long massive numbers of civilians and and armies start wandering around, I would think negotiations will have to begin in the next few days- if they haven't begun already.

With no single entity running the search, coordinating a sneaky plan to trap or misinform seems already blown as an opportunity.

Other scenarios I can imagine are too complicated, have already failed, or have absurd goals and motivations. Ditching the plane or anything else seems ludicrous for all the effort that went into this.

How often has my spectacular logic delivered the goods? Not more often than raw luck would have it and sometimes less. I hope I am right because chances are good the passengers will survive.

They are also likely soon to pinpoint the individual most likely to be the rogue pilot, most likely a member of the flight crew.

[Igel]

20. Ever see the gorilla video about attention and focus?

Surveillance is looking for certain things. If you look for something, you tend to not notice what you're not looking for.

You tell somebody to count how many times a ball is being passed between people on a video, they usually do that. When a guy in a gorilla suit wanders into the frame, stands dead center and looks at the camera for a few seconds, and then exits the other side, observers merrily continue to focus on the ball and how many times it's thrown. "Did you notice the gorilla?" "What gorilla?" Then you show the video again and tell them to look for the gorilla. They either say it's a different video or they stare, gobsmacked, wondering how they missed something so out of place and so hard to miss. (Yes, a reasonable percentage of people do notice the gorilla. More often than not their focus drifted and they notice the gorilla because they're off task and instead say, "Ball? Oh, yeah. The ball.&quot

[SoapBox]

7. And speaking of wrong...

WHY any commercially built a/c, has transponders and ACARS that can simply be turned off, has always amazed me...stupid.

Something remains seriously wrong with this whole situation...it almost feels like asses are being covered from all sides. If everyone shows up dead...the ever so simplistic and usual determination will be that the pilots did it (or pilot "error". Take your pick.)

And about that "simulator"? Huh? This article just said "a pilot" had it but the NYT article says it belonged to the Captain. The types I know about are the monster ones that the U.S. carriers have...what did the Captain have? A video game? This is another vague bit of reporting.

I suggest reading the article at link.

[titaniumsalute]

11. Yeah that's weird

My friend is a flight instructor in a simulator. The machine is the size of my entire living room. They cost millions. How woudl the Capt. have one in his house??

[HipChick]

12. He built one himself..

[groundloop]

14. There a different types of simulators

You're thinking of the mega-buck full motion simulators. The one that pilot had is likely similar to ones I've flown, they're intended as an instrument (IFR) trainer and are generally used for practicing different types of instrument approaches. These types of trainers don't really cost all that much (more than I could afford, but I'm not an airline captain either). They don't any more than Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Oh, and as far as it being "stupid" to be able to turn off electronic equipment on an airplane, if it couldn't be turned off we'd be sitting here discussing how stupid it is that an airliner crashed because a transponder malfunctioned, started a fire, and there was no way to turn it off. ANY electrical equipment in a plane can potentially malfunction and need to be turned off as a matter of safety. Also, it's common practice to turn transponders off when taxiing because if every plane at an airport had theirs turned on it would clutter radar screens something horrible.

[JoeyT]

21. Wouldn't it make sense to have a backup system?

Something that sends out some form of ping (And right about here you can tell I'm woefully ignorant on the subject. ) relaying its location every thirty minutes? A time that's close enough together you could track a stolen or hijacked plane, but far enough apart it shouldn't make too much of a mess of systems on the ground?

Edited to add: I just realized I asked why they don't have anti-dragon defense system mounted on top of them. Pilots turning the com system off and just wandering off for parts unknown isn't really much of a thing.

[titaniumsalute]

32. Transponder

Yes they need to be able to be turned on and off for the reasons you stated. But wouldn't the 777 have had a few ELTs like most planes do? My Cessna 182 had an ELT in the back of the tail section powered by batteries. There was no way to turn it off (the point is you always want it on while the plane is on and flying in case you crash.)

[IDemo]

15. It was a custom build based on an off-the-shelf flight sim

This one -> http://www.precisionmanuals.com/pages/product/777LRF.html

Some people get highly creative with these projects. You can add several monitors for front and side views and use a variety of control add-ons for more realism than a simple joystick.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. I've been playing with my off the shelf FSX system lately.

I've been a private pilot for years but have gotten into playing with the FSX lately.

Those PMDG planes are pretty realistic. One can learn all the operating and procedures from that system - from start-up to shutdown and all the flight system and navigation procedures in between.

I'm thinking of upgrading to a PMDG 777 or 737.

I showed my partner some of the elaborate set-ups on youtube and he says "don't even think about it" LOL

I saw a photo of the Captain's set up and it wasn't this elaborate.

[PSPS]

16. His simulator wasn't that kind.

I know the flight simulator you're referring to. It is an enclosed unit that moves to duplicate the cockpit experience. What the press keeps calling a simulator in this instance is more along the lines of the old "Microsoft Flight Simulator" video game, albeit much more sophisticated. Here's a picture:



All the pilots I know would likely have something like this in their home too. They all love flying.

[Plucketeer]

23. I'm not familiar with the 777

or any other modern airliners. However, having spent many years as an aircraft electrician, I'm willing to bet there are banks of circuit breakers just a reach away from the flight crew. These circuit breakers serve the same purpose as those in your house - to protect an aircraft's wiring from possible overload and fire. Each power-using device is on a separate breaker so that if a shorted system draws too much current, it'll pop (disconnect). IF one of these breakers pops, the crew has the option to reset it or leave it alone. BUT.... those breakers can and MUST BE accessible to the flight crew to manually disable as they might deem fit if an emergency arose. So making those systems manually disable-able is not just a dumb oversight by the engineers.

[Angleae]

33. Stupid? You try working on those systems with power applied to them.

It tends to fry components and electrocute people. Sometimes we can't just turn power off because other things are being worked on. On top of that, if there is no circuit breaker and there is a power surge, the components take all of it (about $20-40000 per transponder) or worse the box has shorted allowing near infinite current through it which could possibly start a fire.

[maindawg]

10. I hope the people are ok

If I were a relative I would have hope. That better than wreckage.
Someone stole the airplane, they landed somewhere and probably then flew it to where they have it now and eventually we will learn why. In the meantime, please release the people.

[Marthe48]

13. People who worked with this pilot

Do they know if was that his voice they heard? Did he sound like his normal self? Was that comment. "All right. Good night." his regular sign off? If the ground control were the regulars, have they had anyone listen to that communication to see if the pilot sounded as usual?

[rickford66]

19. even if found, we may not know what happened

"He", being the person who shut down the transponder etc, probably pulled the CBs for the Flight Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder. They may send out a homing signal, but have no additional data recorded.

[flamingdem]

22. Odd behavior by pilot reported

* yeah I know, but good info is difficult to come by on this

The commander of missing Malaysia Airline aircraft Captain Zaharie Ahmed Shah had showed changes in behavioral pattern hours before he took the flight. A striking change was noticed in the way he had greeted the security guards posted outside his gated residence in Laman Seri on the night of his flight.

Investigations by Headlines Today revealed that Captain Zaharie normally wished the Nepali security guards posted outside his colony with a Muslim style of salutation as if he was saying salam to him. But on the night when he took the flight nine days ago, he had saluted the guards in the military style.

"There was a striking change in the way he had saluted us that night," said one of the security guards posted outside his house on condition of anonymity, adding, ''it was very unlike him.''



Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/captain-zaharie-ahmed-shah-missing-malaysian-flight-mh370-pilots/1/349888.html

[morningfog]

27. The co-pilot said "good night." Bit that doesn't get us far.

There are still hundreds of scenarios that could have played out .

[jsr]

29. Malaysia Backtracks on When Airliner’s Communications Were Disabled

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html
Malaysia Backtracks on When Airliner’s Communications Were Disabled

[Princess Turandot]

30. The Malaysians have now pulled back on this statement...

They're now just saying that the last transmission from ACARS came at 1:07 and that it then failed to make its 1:37 report. They apparently don't know when it actually stopped functioning.

As the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stretched into a 10th day, the Malaysian authorities on Monday identified the plane’s first officer as the last person in the cockpit to speak to ground control. But the government added to the confusion about what happened during those key minutes by withdrawing its assertion that the radio signoff had come after a crucial communications system was disabled.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html