BREAKING NEWS: Major development in Bunkerville cattle battle

[Keefer]

Source: KLAS TV

LAS VEGAS -- A major development is percolating in the showdown at the Bundy ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada -- a possible deal is in the works. It's an 8 News Now exclusive.

The I-Team has learned that a tentative deal has been brokered by Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie to de-escalate the tense standoff between rancher Cliven Bundy and his supporters and the Bureau of Land Management.

Sources tell the I-Team that Sheriff Gillespie has negotiated a potential agreement in which the BLM would halt its roundup of Bundy's cattle and withdraw its employees from the Gold Butte area.

The BLM wants to proceed with the sale of the cattle already gathered during the roundup but is reportedly willing to share the revenue from the sale with Bundy.

More at link.

Read more: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25230368/major-development-in-bunkerville-cattle-battle-between-cliven-bundy-and-blm

[WhiteTara]

1. So does he keep on grazing on our lands? nt

[Owl]

14. I hope not.

[Turbineguy]

42. Isn't he entitled to do that?

After all, what's the point of being a teabagger wingnut if you can't get free shit from the gubmint?

[Thinkingabout]

79. K & R

[yeoman6987]

126. Let's hope

He can as long as he pays.

[louis-t]

2. Why are they coddling this asshole?

Do the words "illegally grazing on public lands for 20 years" mean nothing? If you let idiots like this get away with breaking the law, they will get bolder next time.

[Orrex]

5. You're overlooking some important facts

He's rich
He's white
He's Republican

'Nuff said.

[TroglodyteScholar]

24. Bingo, bingo, and bingo n/t

[WhiteTara]

36. I was going to say "bully"

but then I realized that was redundant.

[2naSalit]

45. And the governor

a component of the gubbamint (shhh! don't tell anyone though) is on his side, probably a cousin or something...

Perhaps they will publicly withdraw. the thing is, he doesn't tend this cattle, per se, so who's to say there won't be a less public effort to just go out and have some target practice or some other form of eradication? I'm thinking Wildlife Services...

It will end and soon.

[former9thward]

76. Sorry, your fantasy will not be fulfilled.

[2naSalit]

122. What?

Just offering some speculation, not a fantasy and not what I would wish. But the idea of such scenarios actually taking place is not beyond the possibilities of the players in this issue.

Sheesh, just because I speculate about something, pretty or not, does not automatically mean I was hoping for such a thing to happen, though I could see it actually being a possibility.



Holier than thou mindset unwelcome on this comment as it doesn't meet your criteria for that which you accuse my speculation to be.

[GOPee]

121. I'm sorry, that is just sick, no, sad really coming on this site.

I hope I missed the sarcasm in your post. That is the reason I believe this standoff has been settled, no matter who is declared as the winner, at the moment. Any escalation with this episode will bring the sicko's out of the woodwork, and no doubt someone or many will be hurt or killed for what, egos? I hail the Administration for having the sense to pause, and think before we have another Waco!

I'm sorry, I never agreed with our actions in Waco, no matter who the Administration was. That, and this situation was and is all about egos. Put your dicks away, and zip your fly boys, nobody thinks yours is big enough anyway. It will be history tomorrow when someone says something stupid about someone, and a new soap opera starts.

[2naSalit]

123. As I said above...

Just offering some speculation, not a fantasy and not what I would wish. But the idea of such scenarios actually taking place is not beyond the possibilities of the players in this issue.

Sheesh, just because I speculate about something, pretty or not, does not automatically mean I was hoping for such a thing to happen, though I could see it actually being a possibility.



Holier than thou mindset unwelcome on this comment as it doesn't meet your criteria for that which you accuse my speculation to be.

[Jesus Malverde]

125. I think missing in this is an understanding of Nevadans

They are a different kind of peoples.

They are very independent. They live close to nature and the tools that come with it.

The people who choose to live in the sage brush are an independent tough bunch.

Harry Reid comes across as conservative sometimes. He's really just representing the people of his state.

If you like camping, hunting and the outdoors you'll love Nevada. They may have the highest RV ownership per capita in the US.

[IronGate]

6. This is a good deal.

It staves off the potential of bloodshed, Mr. Bundy gets to keep the rest of his cattle and takes away a major issue with these militia assholes, namely that the Fed. Govt. is not willing to negotiate.

[Owl]

18. Certainly not a great deal if he continues his illegal activities.

[Lancero]

31. Part of the deal...

Would no doubt require him to restart payments if he wants to use the land for grazing.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

44. I imagine the cattle being sold off will go towards back payments

Provided they get enough money.

[former9thward]

77. None of that is happening.

The BLM offered to pay Bundy for the cattle but he wants them back. So they are doing that.


http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

[former9thward]

78. No that is not the deal.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

[tazkcmo]

84. Not negotiate?

Isn't that exactly what's happened?

[IronGate]

91. That's what happened, negotiations,

which proves these asshats wrong.

[tazkcmo]

92. I'm confused.

Which asshats? The government that negotiated or Bundy because the US govt doesn't negotiate?

[IronGate]

94. Militia asshats.

One of their meme's is that the "tyrannical" govt just swoops in and steals an honest man's cattle and won't negotiate, well, the BLM put that crap to rest by negotiating.

[tazkcmo]

96. aaaah, ty n/t

[AnalystInParadise]

7. Legit terror threat

would look terrible if there was a shootout and unarmed men and women were killed. If the Feds return fire and kill anyone we have a nightmare. I imagine they are retreating until most protesters go home and then they move in again

[ballyhoo]

10. Or they are retreating because more militia are pouring in from all over the country. This

is just the first encounter. There will be more.

[n2doc]

46. all 10 of them?

[ballyhoo]

62. I suggest you do a little dd..........nft

ddddd

[n2doc]

66. 100. big whoop

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610

There were 40,000 protesting against keystone

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-928863

Guess who the government paid attention to?

[hack89]

11. Because it is not worth someone getting killed

Let things calm down and wait until the crazies disperse.

[pitohui]

12. our environment is not worth the fighting for?

if not now when? the illegal grazing on public lands has continued for my whole life (not a mere 20 years but decades by various other rich ranchers) and apparently is destined to continue until our public lands are utterly destroyed?

do we really believe there is nothing worth fighting for?

ever?

or is it, as others say, it's ok as long as yr rich, white, & GOP? why do we cater to these ppl? they'll never vote for our side anyway

[hack89]

17. Surely there are other solution besides violence?

This has been going on since 1993 - waiting another month or so is not going to destroy the environment. And it may save lives.

[AnalystInParadise]

19. LOL

the environmental argument is such garbage. Note I said the argument, not the environment itself. The Federal government is so hypocritical with this desert tortoise bullshit, 200 miles southwest of this area at Fort Irwin in California there is the National Training Center where every month thousands of soldiers train in the desert in preparation for Afghanistan and Iraq previously. The region that Fort Irwin is located in is another of these desert tortoise sanctuaries and I can tell you from experience for 20 years I have seen the military ignore the sanctuary rules and damage the tortoise habitat, kill the tortoises, and basically ignore every single rule to protect them. The environmentalists that work on Irwin say nothing and do nothing. It is kind of bullshit to enforce this law against cattle which are less destructive since they leave an area after they graze and it can slowly recover. The U.S. military trains on the same tortoise habitat EVERY SINGLE MONTH. It has nothing to do with being white or republican, the Federal government is hypocritical in this situation. They are under PBO, they were under Shrub, they were under Clinton.....that is the reality.

[Owl]

23. One solution: Eliminate the NTC.

[AnalystInParadise]

39. LMAO

you have a better chance of electing Democrats in Utah than eliminating NTC. It is the only place in the military that allows Brigade and larger Combined Arms Training. The Tortoise is not relevant to those who run the DOD. And the Federal govt. is full of hypocritical fuckwads of both political parties.

[penultimate]

110. Don't the Marines have some desert tortoise issues at Twentynine Palms?

Some Marines I have on facebook were discussing how they make a big deal about protecting the tortoises out there, and even stop training when one is spotted. Didn't the Marines also create and run a sanctuary for the tortoises?

[arthurgoodwin]

136. Tortoises at 29 Palms - sometime in the 1980s

I was a Marine at 29 Palms when the desert tortoise preservation issue first came up there. The survey section I was in was tasked with gridding off several areas on the base so an environmentalist team could count the tortoises and various types of plants they ate in representative parcels on the base. The final report on their work was very surprising to everyone: there were far more tortoises on the base than anyone had expected. The report opined that this because there was more vegatation on the heavily disturbed military base for the tortoises to eat than there was in areas of undisturbed desert. This was because the southern california desert often forms a hard surface crust that rain just runs off from (not sinking into ground very well). And all the military vehicle traffic meant this crust got broken up a lot; meaning what rain fell tended to soak in instead of running off; and this translated into more vegatation for tortoises to eat.

Now of course, the VERY heavily disturbed areas tended to see fewer tortoises, but much of the base saw only occasional vehicular traffic: just enough to break up the crust to benefit the tortoises.

[ballyhoo]

26. Excellent. The Federal Government hides

behind itself until the time is convenient for it to blame a beleaguered citizen--rich, poor, white, black, whatever...And the game is nearing a move to another level.

[cheapdate]

47. Hypocrisy doesn't make an argument false.

Furthermore, I reject linking the two issues so tightly that taking any action on grazing is "bullshit" as long as US military practices that harm tortoises and their habitat are ongoing.

That would be the same things as saying that regulations that protect marine mammals should be unenforced or eliminated because there are US military activities that harm marine mammals.

[AnalystInParadise]

51. Well I reject your rejection

Guess the status quo remains. I say it is hypocritical, you don't......Guess the world will have to keep on spinning.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

54. He didn't say that.

He isn't saying it's not hypocritical, he's saying two wrongs don't make a right. Just because the government is screwing up one place doesn't mean it should just then go on and screw up every other place.

[cheapdate]

58. Thank you.

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is an excellent summation of my point.

[AnalystInParadise]

60. I reject that as well

Punishing an individual is hypocritical if you allow a huge organization to flaunt the law. Sorry. Just how I see the world.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

90. And again, no one denied the hypocrisy.

You think it's hypocritical, I think it's hypocritical, he probably thinks it's hypocritical.

That still doesn't make allowing 'the individual' to do it right either. It just means that the 'huge organization' needs to also be made to abide by the law, not that you should simply ignore the law.

[cheapdate]

57. If you take a minute to read again what I wrote,

you'll find that my argument isn't denying that hypocrisy exists (I expressly recognized that it does), but rather that hypocrisy doesn't justify inaction.

[AnalystInParadise]

61. I believe it does

and I am not on the side of the ranchers. The hypocrisy in government is a huge pet peeve of mine and if the military (Army veteran here) can get away with (hyperbolic murder of tortoises) then they should STFU about one rancher. The rancher is a moron and in the wrong overall, but the environmental argument from the government is 10 layers of bullshit deep.

[cheapdate]

70. Fair enough...but

I'm less interested in elevating the avoiding of hypocrisy to the status of an end unto itself. I don't know where you would draw the line.

I mentioned earlier that certain practices of the US Navy are harmful to marine mammals. Does that mean that enforcement of marine mammal protections should be suspended or eliminated against individual commercial fishermen until such time as the Navy changes its policies?

I would answer 'no' without hesitation.

Almost everyone is a hypocrite. I lament urban sprawl but live in a sprawling subdivision. I protest against destruction of the environment yet work in the chemical process industry. I'm not alone. I have a good friend who is a Marxist and works in a bank. As some people like to point out, Al Gore and other environmentalists burn fossil fuel to travel to meetings and conferences. Tea Partiers use public infrastructure and government services the same as everyone else.

I'm just less interested in hypocrisy than others. I'd rather look at the issues more on their merits.

[Nobel_Twaddle_III]

27. It might be a good time to find out who all the crazies are.

These people act like they own the land. It is a lease, pack your stuff up and get out.

If my landlord discontinues my lease, and I do not go, they will evict me.

When my house got foreclosed, if I had not vacated, they would have evicted me.

These people are trying to usurp ownership of public land.

[hack89]

28. If your neighbors armed themselves and confronted the police

Would you expect the immediate response of the police to start a gun battle? Or would you rather they step away and quietly arrest everyone at a latter time with less risk to themselves?

This is a 20 year dispute. Another week or so make no difference.

[hillaryfan2016]

65. Depends on the situation-

if my neighbors are otherwise peaceful people, I wouldn't mind the police arresting them later. If they're RW teabagger terrorists like the rancher, I say they need to be dealt with immediately due to the public safety risk of armed insurrectionists. I'm not concerned about the risk to the police themselves- it's why they get paid high salaries, get protected by unions for their constant civil rights abuses, and enjoy numerous other fringe benefits the rest of us don't get.

[hack89]

68. Dead cops and dead tea baggers - a perfect combination in your mind?

Ok - least you are honest about it.

[atreides1]

111. Just my opinion...

Cops...if they can't do the shit part of the job then don't wear the badge!

Tea Baggers...maybe it's time to see if they can walk the walk, because they talk shit all the time!

[hack89]

112. What's wrong with foregoing violence to resolve problems? Nt

[creeksneakers2]

124. I don't see anything

about action being taken later. It looks like its over to me, and the militias and wingnuts won.

[hack89]

135. Time will tell. Nt

[bluestateguy]

3. Ready the drones

nt

[Orrex]

4. I'm glad that the gov't has come down in favor of the rich white guy for once.

I'm sure that this would have unfolded exactly the same way if he'd been black or Hispanic or Native American.

[pnwmom]

32. He's white but is he rich? I didn't see that in the article. I think the reason

they're acting this way is because he's living in a heavily Republican county and most people around there agree with him.

[Keefer]

38. Not quite

Clark County is politically competitive, though marginally Democratic; Democratic presidential candidates have carried the county in each election since 1992, but usually with only small majorities or pluralities. The last Republican candidate to carry the county was George H.W. Bush in 1988.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_County,_Nevada

[pnwmom]

41. You're right. I was thinking about the rural parts of the county. n/t

[Nine]

106. Well, he owes taxpayers over a million dollars.

Plus, each head of cattle is worth about $1000, and he has a lot of them.

[Cryptoad]

8. So ,,,

These Neo-Revolutionaries don't have to obey the Law?????

Enforce the Law!

[24601]

55. Ahhh, but the AG has insisted that he has extraordinary authority to apply discretion when enforcing

the law. Are you asking him to enforce federal marijuana laws in Washington and Colorado?

If you accept that the Executive can chose which laws to enforce, then this is just another choice.

If you believe instead that the government has a duty to enforce all laws, it opens up many more issues.

[Cryptoad]

83. Quite

a stretch to equate those two laws... I believe the AG indeed does have prosecutorial discretion and he should use that discretion to enforce the Law against these people.. Not sure why you feel this has anything to do with the price of tea in China.

[24601]

89. Never mentioned China or tea. The administration hasn't released any reason for backing off. My

judgment is that the common nexus with enforcement of drug laws is political calculation.

I'm opposing Bundy simply because I believe his "fight" should be in the courts.

That the Nevada Governor didn't deploy State Troopers or the National Guard suggests to me that Bundy is wrong legally. That the Administration is backing down tells me that winning in Federal Court doesn't equate to winning votes in November.

[Cryptoad]

116. I never mention prosecutorial discretion either,,,,,

perhaps is will all become clear,,,, it is a little early in game to come to many presumptions.

[Moostache]

9. Selll the cattle and keep the proceeds to pay for 20-years of illegal grazing.

Sounds perfectly fair to me.

I have watched one of the videos of these protesters and the only thing I came away thinking was that a) the police in that video were dangerously close to being the next New Mexico Execution squad at times - we desperately need to re-evaluate just who we are bringing into our civilian peace keeping forces (because they are looking more and more and more like the military minor leagues and it fuels things like this land dispute into rallying cries for psychotics); and, b) it is also exactly why having people armed to "resist tyranny" is such an odious concept.

These people in Nevada (and the protesters and agitators) that are aligning against the enforcement of a court order are playing the short game and failing to see the long game consequences. They are nothing more than the next Waco or Ruby Ridge waiting to happen. They are filled with grandiose visions of resisting the government and fending off the feds...but what would happen if they were armed? A lot of people would needlessly die and the cattle would STILL be removed from the federal lands and the court order would STILL be enforced and other people would end up jailed. Its simply not a matter of "IF"...its a matter of "WHEN" and "HOW".

To put it more bluntly to these self-defense and anti-government nut cases, YES - your guns MAY allow you to repel the first wave of federal workers or police (even overly zealous wannabe SEALs masquerading as police). But what happens next? Do you think you will also repel the Sheriff, the State police, the National Guard, and the real SEALs if it ever came to an escalation? What about the 10th Mountain division? Think your shotguns and rifles can overcome armored troop carriers and tanks? How about if the PResident of these United States one deal is asked to deal with an armed camp of resisters? Think THAT scenario has never happened? Ask some native Americans to recount the tales for you...and be sure to ask them about the joyful camps and reservations they received in the end.

Bottom line, this is a civil dispute and the people being angry about it are part of the problem. If cooler heads do not prevail, there will be a body count, an outrage from the fringes of society and opportunistic shucksters in the GOP and eventually the cattle will no longer be grazing freely on federal lands. If the outcome is not desired I suggest to these free-loading, land-loving, salt-of-the-earth ranchers that they pull themselves up by the bootstraps and stop being so damn lazy as to live off the government teat in the form of free feed to their livestock.

[packman]

35. A bit of history

about government force, not against Native Americans, but against Americans in 1932 who wanted their promises fulfilled and the camp they lived in until tanks - under the command of Doug McArthur and Dwight D. Eisenhower - and tear gas, and burnings drove them out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

[warrant46]

105. And Major Georgie Patton was there

Patton and the Bonus March of 1932
One of the first federal officers to arrive in Washington, D.C., was Major George S. Patton. His cavalry troops met up with infantry at the Ellipse, near the White House. Patton and the federal troops, equipped with gas masks, bayonets and sabers, marched up Pennsylvania Avenue, firing gas grenades and charging and subduing the angry crowd. Later that night, Patton and the federal troops cavalrymen and infantrymen with a few tanks cleared out the marchers' camp in Anacostia, with some tents and shacks catching fire in the process.

[christx30]

118. The question I have is what happens when the

ruling from a court (in any case) is wrong, people are hurt by it, and someone would resist?be against that? What if a group of 500 militia people had decided to descend on New London, CT after the Kelo case to prevent enforcement of the decision? Could those people have saved their homes? Could they have saved their homes from being demolished by Pfizer for no reason? Could they have made it politically painful for the city?

[Keefer]

13. What about

the desert tortoise? Does this deal protect it or not?

[Gin]

15. Wasnt aware of this......another waco in the making

Who names a son Cliven?

Hope the meeting with the sheriff goes well.

[840high]

20. I've seen stranger names.

[Keefer]

25. Just like Johnny Cashs' dad

named him Sue.

[Gin]

33. When I read the story I thought it said "Cloven"

[WhoWoodaKnew]

16. Hell, I just hope a kid doesn't lose a parent (on either side) due to this guy.

[Owl]

21. Ironic... Protest illegal wars and you get maced, tear-gassed, and arrested.

[olddad56]

22. I wonder if this guy is related to Al and Peg Bundy.

[packman]

29. So, the Occupy Wall Street crowd

gets the shit kicked out of them, but a group of armed thugs get (1) To use fed land for their own benefit without paying for it (2) Pay no taxes for such use (3) still endanger a fragile species (4) Defy the law (5) their goods taken-but really not taken.

I guess guns do make that difference . Wonder how OWStreet would have turned out if guns other than those carried by the storm trooper cops, were used . I would bet there would have been blood on the streets.

[ballyhoo]

34. An honest answer.......

If guns had been used the changes would have been palpable. The rich and powerful would be pissing on themselves to makes amends to keep all hell from breaking loose. As it turned out, they just continued laughing. With a crooked government that the rich and powerful own themselves, why would a group of protesters with scribbled T-shirts and garish signs make a difference? Until there is evidence of pain, nothing happens. Been that way since the dawn of history. The protesters did what they could, but the enemy is too large and powerful.

[christx30]

74. No cop is going to be willing to die to get a park back. n/t

[Snarkoleptic]

30. Feds prolly skeert of the sidearm packin' 'mlisha.

[2naSalit]

48. Freekin morans!

LOL

[AtheistCrusader]

53. Twenty teef minimum.

[Thor_MN]

59. 20? You mean amongst all of them or each?

[lunasun]

129. +1

[DavidDvorkin]

37. Nuke 'em!

Oh, I suppose not. That just burst out unbidden.

[SkatmanRoth]

40. I see this as an opportunity

Let the Federal Government drag it out for a while longer. After a large group of right wing militia gather, swoop in and arrest the whole lot of them. Here we have the chance for the most mouth foaming, radical rightwingers to be arrested all at the same time.

These militia are the most active of the bunch, willing to travel to the desert to do battle with 'the Feds'. They are the ones who are the greatest danger to our Democracy and should be arrested and imprisoned before they can do some real damage. How many future Timothy McVeighs can we take out from this one event?

[2naSalit]

49. ^^THIS^^

10,000%

[jberryhill]

52. Flypaper

[cosmicone]

43. Send in national guard with helicopter gunships and tanks

or all crazies all over will pull this stunt over and over and over.

Crush these bastards once and for all.

[2naSalit]

50. Amen to that!! nt

[SwankyXomb]

56. Why waste men and materiel like that?

Isn't this the reason we have all those lovely drones? We should just hold off until all the militias show up, then we can solve two problems at once.

[Codeine]

63. Channeling your inner Putin, I see.

You're a predictable sort.

[cosmicone]

71. Oh come on

If this were an inner city minority outlaw, several federal agencies and local police would converge and shoot to kill in a heartbeat.

This is a rich, white republican outlaw and everyone suddenly wants to be conciliatory?

[ZombieHorde]

67. Calling for violence in a situation that is being delt with in a nonviolent,

non oppressive way might mean your position is as crazy as their position.

Maybe not crushing each other is OK once in a while.

[cosmicone]

72. Non violent way?

Translation: Let the guy get away with breaking the law because he has amassed a gang of thugs.

It sets a precedence and every rich, white, republican outlaw will do the same. Might as well repeal all laws and bow down to them in the interest of non-violence.

[ZombieHorde]

73. If we repealed all laws,

they would lose all their property and money. I doubt many of them want that.

This thread says a deal is being made.

Link to thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014778681
Link to article: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25230368/major-development-in-bunkerville-cattle-battle-between-cliven-bundy-and-blm

LAS VEGAS -- A major development is percolating in the showdown at the Bundy ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada -- a possible deal is in the works. It's an 8 News Now exclusive.

The I-Team has learned that a tentative deal has been brokered by Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie to de-escalate the tense standoff between rancher Cliven Bundy and his supporters and the Bureau of Land Management.

Sources tell the I-Team that Sheriff Gillespie has negotiated a potential agreement in which the BLM would halt its roundup of Bundy's cattle and withdraw its employees from the Gold Butte area.

The BLM wants to proceed with the sale of the cattle already gathered during the roundup but is reportedly willing to share the revenue from the sale with Bundy.

[Jake Stern]

75. In other words

a crook gets away with it. There is nothing in that deal that punishes the lawbreaker.

[ZombieHorde]

80. According to the ACLU,

With only 5% of the world’s population, the U.S. has 25% of the world’s prison population – that makes us the world’s largest jailer.

we seem to be a bit punishment happy. So yeah, I don't care if we restrain ourselves from punishing people.

eta link: https://www.aclu.org/safe-communities-fair-sentences/prison-crisis

[Jake Stern]

85. I disagree

Allowing large scale thieves like this rancher to go unpunished sends the wrong message: That it's okay to steal from all of us.

He deserves, at a minimum, to have his livestock taken as compensation by the government for all the fees he failed to pay.

[ZombieHorde]

109. When we strip away all the social/rhetorical constructs,

at the end of the day, all that really happened is some cows ate some grass. The crime is one of paperwork, bureaucracy, and other abstract constructs. I don't want any bloodshed over cows eating grass and abstract social constructs.

[Throd]

69. Shoot violence in the fucking face!

[Jake Stern]

81. None of the "give peace a chance" crew seems to

understand how a bully works. When they discover something that antagonizes you, they will repeatedly do it until you finally fight back.

The Feds have proven they won't do a damn thing about this. These militia types now know that all they have to do is show up en masse and the government will tuck tail and run.

Some on here seem to think they're a joke, a bunch of hillbillies with guns rallying around some crazy old codger. How long do you think it's going to take before the newly emboldened "militias" start showing up in cities? Say in minority areas around election time?

Apparently they don't have to worry about the government stopping them.

[Paladin]

99. I share your frustration. Bundy needs to be stepped on---hard. (nt)

[cindge]

95. Please don't ask that of our Military

I'm retired Military, and I was often asked if I would "fire on my own countrymen". I know it happened at Ohio State back in 1970, but we Military really hope and believe we won't be called upon to kill our own unless under the direst of circumstances. This isn't that case. I don't know that I would kill Americans over cows.

However, there are about a half dozen other federal agencies that would love the chance to do so. Let it be on their consciousness that they made martyrs out of a couple dozen nut jobs. And I do agree that they need to be dealt with severely.

[cosmicone]

107. I said national guard. Not military.

It is the national guard's job to help with restoring law and order when directed by the governor.

[cindge]

115. I understand the role of the National Guard.

But please don't think they are just tools for the Governor to use to settle a pissing contest (not applicable in this case, anyway, yet). And the thousands of Guardsmen deployed to Afghanistan just might disagree that they aren't military.

[mtasselin]

64. taker

This guy is a taker, plain and simple the same shit he accuses poor people of doing he does. What point does the government make a stand against these assholes?

[Thinkingabout]

87. Yep, he needs to be added Romney's list of takers.

He needs to pay the grazing fees. I listened to Hannity yesterday, there was never a mention of grazing fees but this poor Republican being picked on by the BLM and had his cattle rounded up. Hannity will be ranting about illegals not being deported fast enough and its Obama's fault and needs to be impeached for not doing his job but in this case the BLM is doing their job and Hannity wants raise hell.

[LittleBlue]

82. Glad to hear the government backed down

They're cattle ffs. No sense in anyone losing their lives over such a stupid thing.

[Jake Stern]

88. So you're groovy with theft?

No biggie. Glad the cops didn't corner those bank robbers. It's only money. No sense in anyone losing their lives over such a stupid thing.

[LittleBlue]

97. Theft of what? A bunch of brush on barren land?

Yeah, I'll value blood over that, sure.

[Jake Stern]

132. Once again I turn to the analogy I posted:

Money's just pieces of paper. Why shed blood over paper? Why not just have the tellers give them the pieces of paper and let them go. No arrest, no charges. That's what out impotent federal law enforcement are essentially doing with this deal.

[IronGate]

98. Theft of what?

A bunch of sagebruse on land that's not used by the public?
That's worth an armed confrontation over?

[Paladin]

101. The federal government owns tens of millions of acres in the west.

Believe me, you do not want a back off & play nice precedent set with crackpot freeloaders like Bundy. If you utilize and derive benefit from federal lands, you pay the damn fees. That's the way it works.

[IronGate]

103. I know what the govt. owns, I live in the west.

What will probably happen is the govt will move to freeze his assests, put a lien on his property and haul him into court again, all without the loss of life.
It's better that the BLM backed off rather than give these militia assholes what they wanted, an armed confrontation with the real possibility of a shootout.

[Paladin]

104. I hope it happens as you predict. We'll see. (nt)

[politicaljunkie41910]

141. I agree that we don't need this to end in a blood bath, but an earlier news report I heard had said

that other ranchers had paid their grazing fees. What happens when those people stop paying their fees because Bundy doesn't have to pay his and the Government doesn't have have the stones to take on this fight? Are income taxes next? I'm sure the Tea Party is just waiting for the opportunity to take that cause on. The BLM has taken this guy to court already and won, twice. No government, federal or local, would have put up with this crap if the protestors were members of a minority group. White privilege rules. There is one set of rules for them, and another for the rest of us.

[seabeckind]

139. The federal gov't owns nothing...

we, the people, do.

And I don't want that jerk on my land.

[cosmicone]

108. What if these thugs start drilling for oil?

or even worse -- fracking?

Oh -- it is just barren land ... let them. Let them drop garbage in the grand canyon, drain out yellowstone and start a granite quarry in Yosemite.... those are just barren lands...

The law requires proper permits to even film on federal lands let alone use the lands for any purpose.

[Paladin]

137. Even if these assholes had enough money to drill their own wells, it wouldn't happen.

First and foremost, it's a safe bet they don't own the mineral rights on those federal lands---all they've got is an increasingly tenuous right to surface usage, grazing their cattle. I know that doesn't seem to count for too much with these lamebrains, but no drilling contractor would drill a well for them under those circumstances if the Bundy's had the money for it, and no oil company would ever get cross-ways with the BLM by pissing away millions of dollars on a trespass scenario like that---they would take a quick look at the Bundy's title opinions and tell them to go fuck themselves. Welcome to the wonderful world of split estate activities in the American west, i.e., the real world.

[Jake Stern]

133. Nipping this crap in the bud is worth an armed confrontation. nt

[Trust Buster]

86. A foolish move by the government if they back down....

......All that will be accomplished is conditioning these Right wing radicals to think that the government will always cower in the face of their threats. Those that think this is good because it will avoid bloodshed are setting the stage for an even greater dispute and greater bloodshed in the future. That's right, embolden these gubment haters and they'll up the ante. If this Nevada hick doesn't have to abide by the nation's laws, then Why should anyone have to ?

[Jake Stern]

93. What's to stop these militia nutjobs from pouring into heavily liberal areas during an election?

The government has shown that it's easily cowed. I could see someone like Scott Walker asking for assistance from these whackaloons, you know, "to keep the vote honest" (nudge, nudge).

[Dawson Leery]

100. +1

[Paladin]

102. +2. (nt)

[Warpy]

113. This is better than the complete cave in it sounded like at first

The cattle will be auctioned fairly, the proceeds going to pay Bundy's outstanding debt to the government. Then he'll get the balance, which is only fair.

Good luck to him getting another grazing permit without paying up front.

[humbled_opinion]

114. U.S. Government Caves to Rightwing Nuts...

They will get bolder now.... They won't be paying any ACA fines either, I am thinking there is a huge tax revolt coming soon.... They will simply continue this IRS is against Conservatives meme until they work themselves into a tax revolt.....

I think AG Holder should hold a news conference and tell the people that this lawless behavior cannot and will not be tolerated...

[Jake Stern]

134. That's about all Holder will do. He's great at press conferences.

Already seeing the "But he's waiving federal pot laws in states where it's legal so wouldn't enforcing the law against this guy be hypocritical?" schtick. There's nothing hypocritical about letting a peaceful pot head slide while throwing the book at people who, as far as I'm concerned, launch open rebellion against out government.

Thought we settled this rebellion shit 150 years ago.

[6000eliot]

117. Note the difference between how this ended and how the government crushed Occupy Wall Street.

That conservatives live by a different standard of justice than the rest of us should be clear.

[christx30]

120. Because the conservatives

brought guns. They don't beg for permission. They don't hang out in free speech zones. They forced the government to back down for everyone's safety.
Occupy hung out in a park until forced to move. They offered no resistance. Cops swooped in, stole and disposed of their shit, and arrested a bunch of people. If Occupy had built barricades and weapons, things would have been different.
Jackbooted thugs like cops are bullies and cowards. They won't risk their lives if they can help it. They prey on the weak. You resist with any amount of force, they will back down. BLM proved that today.

[Jesus Malverde]

127. Occupy in San Francisco was in the end a homeless camp.

There was nothing to protect when a movement is in disarray, leaderless and with a myriad of unfocused demands.

One of the biggest jokes of the occupy movement was the police in NY told them they could not use megaphones for speeches. Rather then tell the cops to screw themselves and use megaphones, occupy adopted the "mike check" approach which was incredibly inefficient and ridiculous.

[Thor_MN]

119. With any luck, there will start being "alien abductions"...

[politicman]

128. what about not paying taxes, would you be allowed to get away with it if you armed yourself.

So lets see, if suddenly many people decide not to pay their taxes and when the government comes to confiscate your home for failure to pay taxes, you get a bunch of mates and have an armed stand off, will that be ok?

If I just went into an abandoned building and decided to set up my company there without getting permission, would I be allowed to keep my assets and my business operating there when they issue a court order to remove me?

That is exactly what this is, the guy grazed public lands without paying for it, he was ordered to remove cattle and didn't comply, law enforcement blinked because some guys had guns and now those guys with guns have won.

[underpants]

140. Spot on

[joe_stampingbull]

130. give the range back to the Native Americans

Nobody seemed to mind that most of Nevada was stolen from Native Americans. Where were the right wing fanatics then to protect sovereign rights from federal bullying?

[politicman]

131. its completely wrong that the government wont enforce a court order because some guys with guns

don't agree with the court order.

Regardless if you think that this cattle rancher has a good argument, regardless if you think that no blood should be spilt over cattle grazing on federal land, the point remains that this guy and his armed friends defied a court order.

Look, we may not all agree with the policies and laws of government but that's the reason we have courts.

This guy had an argument, the federal government had their argument, a court decided that their argument was better thus they issued a court order.
Just because this guy does not like the court order, it doesn't mean that the government should let him get away with not complying to that order just because he has mates with guns.


Imagine the next time that a guy gets convicted for a crime and sentenced to jail, then his supporters come in with weapons and argue that the court order is wrong and he better not be locked up.
Do any of you seriously think that the government would decide to not follow through on the court ordered sentence because there might be some bloodshed with his supporters?

[seabeckind]

138. As I looked at this issue

and the comments on the cheerleader site (foxnews.com) I am absolutely amazed at the stupidity of this guy's supporters. From the vids it looks like many don't have a pot to pee in yet they are ready to bleed for a guy who has been stealing from them for 20 years.

I'm sure there are many "ranchers" who would be happy to have those leases and pay for them but instead this jerk is sitting on them. Kinda like supporting Romney, the ultimate taker, robbing value from companies that was invested by people for many years.

Maybe it is well past time to water the tree of liberty.

And state's rights? Huh? When it suits them to support their greed and stupidity.