Ukraine leader signals support for national referendum on status

[Bosonic]

Source: AFP

Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine's interim president on Monday signalled support for a national referendum on turning the ex-Soviet republic into a federation with broader rights for its heavily Russified east.

Pro-Kremlin militias who have seized government buildings in regions such as Donetsk are demanding local referendums on either broader local rights or an option to join the Russian Federation.

Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov stopped well short of giving in to these demands by signalling support for a national referendum on Ukraine's future status -- a vote whose outcome is far less certain because most in Kiev and the Ukrainian speaking west reject the idea of federalisation.

Turchynov suggested that the national vote could coincide with snap presidential polls that Ukraine is set to hold on May 25 following the February ouster of Russian-backed president Viktor Yanukovych.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-leader-signals-support-national-referendum-status-092816358.html

[bemildred]

1. Smart move. Elections provide legitimacy. nt

[MBS]

5. International monitoring would be essential. ..

to insure integrity of the elections. (If you believe that 97% of Crimea really supported the Russian takeover, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Majority in Crimea, yes -- but unanimity? come on).

[bemildred]

6. Weren't there supposed to be some OSCE observers in there by now?

What's up with that? Isn't it time Europe got more assertive here?

[dipsydoodle]

22. Not US observers though who are told what to report by the US.

Azerbaijans elections demonstrated that.

US observers said they were free and fair : EU observers said the exact opposite.

At earlier Azerbaijan elections the Canadian observers were kicked out and the US didn't bad an eyelid. The mother of one my friends was one such observer which is how I know that with certainty.

[cosmicone]

2. It is not the same thing.

This will not assuage the protestors in Eastern Ukraine.

[karynnj]

7. Are you meaning because each region does not have an independent vote?

If the ENTIRE country is to become a federation of "states", it does not make sense to have a vote in each "state". Assume there are 10 "states", what would you do if 3 voted for a federation and 7 voted for a more centralized country.

Not to mention, by Lavrov's proposal, each "state" in the federation would have its own trade relations outside the country and its own foreign policy. In reality, this is asking that Ukraine be split into many separate countries. There is no reason to think that Ukraine should simply adopt without change the Russian proposal. Note that Russia itself does not have that feature - and also gives very little autonomy to its "states". (As you constantly argue the US is hypocritical - where is your voice on this?)

However, even before Lavrov, the Ukrainians were discussing possible ideas for decentralization - moving more authority to the local governments, that currently have little autonomy. Only by seeing the definition of what powers go to the "state" and what powers remain at the federal level can you even evaluate what this is.

As to the protesters, it is likely that they might reject the offer. They are the most extreme against the central government and nothing anywhere requires 100% of the people to agree. No matter what is done - there will be some people against it.

[Bosonic]

3. Ukraine asks for UN peacekeepers in restive east

Ukraine asks for UN peacekeepers in restive east

HORLIVKA, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine's acting President Oleksandr Turchynov on Monday called for the deployment of United Nations peacekeeping troops in the east of the country, where pro-Russian insurgents have occupied buildings in nearly 10 cities.

In a telephone conversation with Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon, Turchynov suggested that an "anti-terrorist operation" could be conducted jointly by Ukrainian security forces and U.N. peacekeepers, according to the presidential web site.

Peacekeepers would have to be authorized by the U.N. Security Council, in which Russia holds a veto.

The request comes from a government that has proved powerless to reign in separatists in the Russian-speaking east of the country, where insurgents have been occupying government offices in cities for the past week. A deadline for the insurgents to give up weapons and vacate the brigands, set by Turchynov, passed Monday morning without any visible action.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/kiev-deadline-disarming-east-ukraine-passes

[bemildred]

4. Wow. That's bad. nt

[amandabeech]

9. Further down in the article, it is reported that the commander of one of the

"hit" squads admitted to police who joined the revolt that he was a colonel in the Russian army, but declined to give his full name.

That's bad, too.

[bemildred]

17. Indeed.

If you will remember, I said this would be a mess some weeks back now, and everybody should make nice while they still could. One hardly knows where to start.

The threats of force were a bluff, intentionally or not.
Threats enable, however, further destabilization, as you note. It's like a gift to Putin.
One ought not bluff a guy who you know is going to call you on it, it makes your weakness evident.
The Kiev government has no idea how things work, witness the appeal to the UNSC.
And: THERE IS NO MILITARY OPTION. DON'T GO THERE.
Meanwhile, the EU fiddles and makes threats too.
And as I asked in #6 where are the OSCE observers?

[amandabeech]

18. You could not have been more right, bemildred.

I have not read any mention of the OSCE observers since they were turned back from Crimea.

It seems as though the Ukrainian government sees no military option. Let's hope that no one convinces them otherwise.

I cannot see a good outcome at this point.

[bemildred]

19. There was an agreement last week to get 500 in there, or so I read.

Ah, here it is, I've been doing taxes:

http://www.voanews.com/content/osce-begins-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine-but-not-crimea/1879158.html

[bemildred]

20. And I concur, I see one bright spot, all those cell phone cameras and whatnot.

Whatever is done, it will be made public, with video.

[amandabeech]

21. I missed that OSCE piece. Thanks for the link.

Cell phones have already been used. There is some video floating around of some extremely organized and uniformly equipped men leading a larger pack of scrubs with surgical masks in taking one of the police buildings over the weekend. The leaders were clearly military or paramilitary. If they were not Russian, then I suspect that they were former Berkut riot police under the command of someone not in Kiev. This is making me so upset that I may have to lay off for awhile, frankly.

Sorry about the taxes. What a drag, as we used to say!

[amandabeech]

10. These are issues that probably are required to be worked out in the Ukrainian

national legislature (Rada), and perhaps after that, be put to a vote.

Right now, Ukraine has an interim president, and I suspect that not all members of the Rada have returned to their offices in Kiev, but are still AWOL following the departure of Yanukovich.

If Russia were not meddling, or at least was more patient in its meddling, this could probably be worked out over the next several months, but it seems that this be settled in 3-4 weeks. They don't even seem ready to wait until the results of the May 25 election are in.

Calling in the UN for now isn't such a bad idea, if only for the fact that at least some of them will be there as observers to give Russia pause.

I also think that if Kiev hasn't done it, it must start Russian-language TV and radio broadcasts to get its message out in Eastern Ukraine.

[amandabeech]

12. My recollection is that this was never signed into law and is not being enforced.

If you have a non-RT or VOR reference, I'd be interested. I stopped watching RT long before this situation started because I found them to be unreliable in much of their reporting, particularly on the US. Perhaps there is something in the BBC, Reuters, AFP or DW.

[amandabeech]

14. If providing a mainstream link from a European source is too tedious,

just don't bother.

[amandabeech]

16. Not good timing for me to do that today. n/t

[freshwest]

23. UN Peacekeepers is better than killing each other while they work things out.

And this article has a new word for us, Russified...

Sorry I missed the troll. May have been a zombie...